• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,410
i complain about modern pokemon a lot but this is fairly benign

pokemon is always the same game with like a couple pokemons worth of differences and now trading is easier than ever

if you buy both versions, that's on you
 

Nano-Nandy

Member
Mar 26, 2019
2,302
So...what's the big deal?
Losing the illusion of owning two different copies? So if the ID was different but was still the same game we wouldn't even have this thread.

Or maybe later, when someone ripped the game and found it was the exact same game with a different ID; so f*** you not-GF?

Yet, somehow not minding this equals defending on disc DLC, etc.
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
This isn't too far from my position on it, I think. This is one of multiple elements that are meant to encourage social play, and you can presume that the standard intended way of playing uses that instead of demanding multiple purchases.

I don't think people who view the two versions as a scam are wrong per se, but that "scam" is also predicated entirely on you both feeling an obligation to get the rather meager content that's split between the two versions and also being unwilling or unable to engage in the social activity that alleviates the issue. In high school, I just coordinated with my friends and we got different versions. Nowadays I might have to use online features if I didn't just shrug off the "missing" content.

So the problem's predicated entirely on the buyer's personality and behaviours. Does that mean Game Freak shares no fault? On the contrary, I think there's a lot of similar ways that games attempt to make more revenue by exploiting the gaming population's common obsessive need to have everything. That's why there are multiple more expensive versions of many games that offer more content or goodies. That's what the whole gacha game business is build around. The latter particularly preys on things like addictive personalities - for someone like me who is quite distant from that, I can play multiple gacha games and never feel a great urge to spent anything at all, but others can bankrupt themselves.

It's possible in that way to argue that Pokemon's two versions is a potential means to exploit people who approach purchasing a game in a particular way. But I kind of find it hard to get too upset about it when, unlike some other versions of this, it can be alleviated other ways such as trading with friends. Additionally, it has a cap of sorts - you don't keep getting more multiple version benefits for buying more than two games - which makes it significantly less alarming than with gacha games, which are designed to encourage uncapped spending from people with similar purchasing habits.

Having a single "version" in stores with an in-game toggle upon creating a new save file would be better, I think, but I don't think it makes as big of a difference as it's presented here, honestly. It doesn't do much to alleviate the behaviour of obsessively needing to buy the game a second time to get the additional content. I actually wonder if it might increase the cost of producing the game since you'd only be making a single totally uniform product.
I agree with u here.
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
is that controversial or some kind of outrage?

b5Ixtry.png
I mean it's pretty bold to compare the toxic elements of the Pokemon fanbase to Jesus, but okay.

EDIT: Actually I may be conflating you with someone from the other thread who said they wanted this to blow up.
 
Last edited:

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,772
NoVA
If Pokemon were to release one version of their games from now on, would you still trade?
even if there's just a single version, there's always trade evolutions, one-time choices, etc

having two versions is just one way they encourage social play, it doesn't mean there's any other way to do it

not that they'll ever stop, they've really got no reason to
 

oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,006
Night City
All this tells me is the remake and version differences are so small and low effort that it doesn't matter if all the content is on the same cartridge because it doesn't force them to sell higher capacity carts which would increase physical game production costs. Or is this game digital only?
 
Jun 5, 2018
3,235
Question, how would one version interact with the other, for those dead set on doing everything themselves.

Everything would be the same I'd assume, as far as reasons for people to now interact? It would be no different from someone who bought both versions, you would interact if you wanted to but it wouldn't be compulsory.

Ideally if they do two versions i'd like there to be some substantial differences to make it more interesting, even sun and moon has the whole swapped day and night cycle.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,571
Uhh yeah? It's the same game, it has all the same data, with minor differences of replacing x for y here and there.
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
Everything would be the same I'd assume, as far as reasons for people to now interact? It would be no different from someone who bought both versions, you would interact if you wanted to but it wouldn't be compulsory.

Ideally if they do two versions i'd like there to be some substantial differences to make it more interesting, even sun and moon has the whole swapped day and night cycle.
You wouldn't be able to trade between the 2 because in order for trading to work, you would need both versions open at the same time. I just don't see how that's possible with both versions on one cartridge.
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
even if there's just a single version, there's always trade evolutions, one-time choices, etc

having two versions is just one way they encourage social play, it doesn't mean there's any other way to do it

not that they'll ever stop, they've really got no reason to
At least for the people who want to do everything themselves, having 2 separate versions might be cheaper because if it was just one version, they would have to buy another system to trade with each other, whereas if it was 2 separate versions they could utilise home to get Pokemon from one version to another.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,008
I wonder if the lack of save slots is also totally to encourage trading and other wonderful social engagement. Coincidentally, the lack of this roughly 4 decades old basic-ass feature happens to mean that your family members can't just have their own individual save file, necessitating additional copies.🥴
 

Mario_Bones

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,528
Australia
Forcing trading was important in building a community back in the days where games weren't as social, but I feel like it's really not neccessary anymore. Online trading is so convenient now that having to trade to complete the Pokedex is more of a trivial annoyance that doesn't really add anything. Exclusive legendaries are always going to be a pain, so in my opinion you should do without those and have 'exclusive' Pokemon in other forms. Just have one version of the game with choices about which Pokemon to grab at some point (starters, fossils etc), but the Pokemon should always be breedable so you can put up your 'exclusive' Pokemon for another one and fill out the Pokedex that way. Alternatives to trade evolutions would be appreciated too - make it so you can trade Onix with a Metal Coat to get a Steelix early, but then you can also evolve it by levelling it up to, say, 40-something.

Either that or make the two versions super different so they're almost different games set in the same reason. Just make some sort of justification for there actually being two versions.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
You wouldn't be able to trade between the 2 because in order for trading to work, you would need both versions open at the same time. I just don't see how that's possible with both versions on one cartridge.
I presume that the crux of the issue is that some people feel that the features that demand trading are what "force" them into buying multiple versions. Any arrangement that retains those features has the same issues for the same people.

Whether the two versions are on separate carts or the same one is ultimately of no substance to that argument, but it allows someone to rhetorically connect it to the on-disc DLC to try to present it as anti-consumer in the same way.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,772
NoVA
At least for the people who want to do everything themselves, having 2 separate versions might be cheaper because if it was just one version, they would have to buy another system to trade with each other, whereas if it was 2 separate versions they could utilise home to get Pokemon from one version to another.
if people really wanted to do it themselves, there's nothing that prevents them from dumping everything in home and starting over for the choices they didn't make the first time. in either case that won't work for trade evolutions.

the games really are designed to force you to trade, regardless of distribution
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
if people really wanted to do it themselves, there's nothing that prevents them from dumping everything in home and starting over for the choices they didn't make the first time. in either case that won't work for trade evolutions.

the games really are designed to force you to trade, regardless of distribution
That's very true, they are there to make sure people actually trade.
 

Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
338
If anything I'm surprised it took this long for it to be that way.

Like... working with two separate builds for two separate versions is incredibly inefficient, and while understandable for something as limited as a Game Boy where every byte of every space matters, really the whole development process should have been switch-based since NDS days, 3DS at most.
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
Forcing trading was important in building a community back in the days where games weren't as social, but I feel like it's really not neccessary anymore. Online trading is so convenient now that having to trade to complete the Pokedex is more of a trivial annoyance that doesn't really add anything. Exclusive legendaries are always going to be a pain, so in my opinion you should do without those and have 'exclusive' Pokemon in other forms. Just have one version of the game with choices about which Pokemon to grab at some point (starters, fossils etc), but the Pokemon should always be breedable so you can put up your 'exclusive' Pokemon for another one and fill out the Pokedex that way. Alternatives to trade evolutions would be appreciated too - make it so you can trade Onix with a Metal Coat to get a Steelix early, but then you can also evolve it by levelling it up to, say, 40-something.

Either that or make the two versions super different so they're almost different games set in the same reason. Just make some sort of justification for there actually being two versions.
For your second option, I feel that would be more greedy as it would get much more people to buy the other version to experience the differences, so I think in that case Multievolution's solution would be very beneficial to the consumer here.

I think what this all boils down is that GF wants players to trade.
 

massoluk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,641
Thailand
I have never met another human being that bought two different versions of Pokemon releases. I know they exist, but they are as rare as a yeti.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,587
I wonder if the lack of save slots is also totally to encourage trading and other wonderful social engagement. Coincidentally, the lack of this roughly 4 decades old basic-ass feature happens to mean that your family members can't just have their own individual save file, necessitating additional copies.🥴
I wouldn't defend this. These two issues are separate.
 

DeadeyeNull

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Dec 26, 2018
1,711
I have never met another human being that bought two different versions of Pokemon releases. I know they exist, but they are as rare as a yeti.
People buy both when they live with someone else. Growing up me and my brother would each get one, when we would share almost every other game. I'm everyone I knew with siblings did the same thing. There aren't alot of individuals who buy both but there's certainly a lot of households.
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
While I disagree with this viewpoint, this thread has made me realise that there's a legitimate point to make about how trading is detrimental to the series, or at the very least how attached GF is to it, because if you took that away, version exclusives would disappear, trade evolutions wouldn't be a thing and so the need for both versions or 2 copies would disappear and if trading never existed I don't think 2 versions wouldn't exist because I think they exist because GF wanted to incentives trading.
 

Fendoreo1

Member
Jan 1, 2019
15,689
People buy both when they live with someone else. Growing up me and my brother would each get one, when we would share almost every other game. I'm everyone I knew with siblings did the same thing. There aren't alot of individuals who buy both but there's certainly a lot of households.
well yeah but for a household where multiple people want the game that would make sense, but for a single individual it seems rare
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,772
NoVA
I wonder if the lack of save slots is also totally to encourage trading and other wonderful social engagement. Coincidentally, the lack of this roughly 4 decades old basic-ass feature happens to mean that your family members can't just have their own individual save file, necessitating additional copies.🥴
this has actually been resolved thanks to switch profiles. each profile has its own individual save now, it's home that muddies the waters there. let's go and sword/shield have individual saves for each profile on the console, but home connectivity is wonkier and requires a subscription tied to the NSO user
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,672
I mean, it makes sense considering the version differences have always been minor except for Black/White. May as well make the workload easier rather than trying to manage two different builds.
 

djinn

Member
Nov 16, 2017
15,846
I don't get it. Hasn't this always been the case? You've been literally buying the same game every other time but with a couple of different Pokemon included.
 

FauxBrian

Prophet of Truth
Member
Aug 20, 2021
113
I don't get it. Hasn't this always been the case? You've been literally buying the same game every other time but with a couple of different Pokemon included.

Not to mention, you presumably need the files for ALL of the pokemon on your system regardless of what version you are playing for trading/battling purposes anyway.
 
I don't get it. Hasn't this always been the case? You've been literally buying the same game every other time but with a couple of different Pokemon included.
Functionally, yes it's the same. The only difference is that ILCA chose to follow the most efficient method of determining version changes by having a flag dictate it. Previously the different version SKUs would be comparatively more hard coded. But it's really just splitting hairs at this point, not much is different here.
 

disparate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,036
It's fine if people want to buy both versions, but feeling like you have to is fucking stupid.
 

DeadeyeNull

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Dec 26, 2018
1,711
well yeah but for a household where multiple people want the game that would make sense, but for a single individual it seems rare
This will still inflate the number of sales and in turn justify the two versions. Parents who don't know pokemon are more likely to buy two if they have different names and covers.

A ton of people live with other people, when I had roommates we would all share the PS4 and the games for it, but would still each buy a copy of pokemon. Anyone with an SO that also like Pokemon will buy both versions when they would likely share one copy of any other game.

Hell growing up my friend group would be lending games back and forth all the time, but we each had own copy of pokemon. Having a couple minor differences makes it an easier pill to swallow. If anything people should be asking for multiple save files.
 

Bedameister

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,945
Germany
this has actually been resolved thanks to switch profiles. each profile has its own individual save now, it's home that muddies the waters there. let's go and sword/shield have individual saves for each profile on the console, but home connectivity is wonkier and requires a subscription tied to the NSO user
You can still use HOME with all your accounts on your Switch if the main user has the subscription, no?
I never had problems shifting Pokemon from different users within HOME.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,237
My favorite comment i saw in twitter was of someone saying if this is legal (lol what), hilarious how Pokemon makes people get outraged at nothing
 
Last edited:

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,772
NoVA
You can still use HOME with all your accounts on your Switch if the main user has the subscription, no?
I never had problems shifting Pokemon from different users within HOME.
i'm actually not that sure, i was under the impression that to even login to home you needed to have the NSO account associated with a Home account and it was a strict 1:1 thing

if it actually lets you use the main user's subscription for different switch profiles that's a lot better, but i haven't tested it myself
 
Nov 27, 2017
30,396
California
I mean is it really a surprise to anyone?
They can fit anything and everything on a cart and it was most likely possibly to have all 151 Pokémon on red or blue but $$$$$$$$$
 

Bedameister

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,945
Germany
i'm actually not that sure, i was under the impression that to even login to home you needed to have the NSO account associated with a Home account and it was a strict 1:1 thing

if it actually lets you use the main user's subscription for different switch profiles that's a lot better, but i haven't tested it myself
If you boot up HOME you need to boot it with the main user but inside you can switch users