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Mar 22, 2020
87
Though their flash controller is custom, it seems a slightly less important facet of the end-to-end stream. They can adjust for less custom hardware by just demanding higher transfer rate. On the other hand, the custom I/O hardware on the SOC is central to the approach. This is why Mr. Cerny emphasized that the third-party add-on drives will "connect through the custom I/O unit just like our SSD does, so they can take full advantage of the decompresion, I/O coprocessors, and all the other features I was talking about."
I don't know about that, the controller does have a pretty strong custom arbitration scheme over NVMe standard, and also relies on 12x R/W channels whereas a Phison controller tomorrow only goes up to 8x channels and half the priority levels, even though it is 7GB/s. That's where I would draw the line on pure bandwidth comparisons only, because their drive still probably would stay ahead in actual scenarios (not 100% sequential R/W). However the higher the peak bandwidth on the other drive the less loading times and new installs or updates. Which is good. I'm still unsure on the actual impact on the I/O hardware, because it does get impacted by clock frequency, unless they offloaded 100% of the traffic on the coprocessors, and the DMA controller might run at 1750MHz anyway. From what I understand, the decompressor is more or less repurposed AVX-256 logic from 8/9 Zen2 cores, I'm unsure if it runs a fixed clock or not. There might be a clock domain for the I/O unit as a whole anyway.

This is evidently not a limit for the console. In the GitHub testing PS5 was using GDDR6 running above 16gbps.
Yes, I'm interested to know more about that github part, I'm not too familiar with it. However, there might still be uncertainty on the process node used because some people had access to stolen IPs and said otherwise, but it also could be made up. But I think it's fair to say the monolithic chip approach should definitely improve the critical path so I'm very curious to see how much fabric clocks can take. We would probably need someone owning a very recent Ryzen 4000 to push his clocks to see if this checks out. I'll try to find someone on the subreddit to do it. Nevermind, Ryzen 4000 runs LPDDR4-4266 so it supports 2133MHz fabric clocks, woops :)
 
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chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
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I don't know about that, the controller does have a pretty strong custom arbitration scheme over NVMe standard, and also relies on 12x R/W channels whereas a Phison controller tomorrow only goes up to 8x channels and half the priority levels, even though it is 7GB/s. That's where I would draw the line on pure bandwidth comparisons only, because their drive still probably would stay ahead in actual scenarios (not 100% sequential R/W). However the higher the peak bandwidth on the other drive the less loading times and new installs or updates. Which is good. I'm still unsure on the actual impact on the I/O hardware, because it does get impacted by clock frequency, unless they offloaded 100% of the traffic on the coprocessors, and the DMA controller might run at 1750MHz anyway. From what I understand, the decompressor is more or less repurposed AVX-256 logic from 8/9 Zen2 cores, I'm unsure if it runs a fixed clock or not. There might be a clock domain for the I/O unit as a whole anyway.


Yes, I'm interested to know more about that github part, I'm not too familiar with it. However, there might still be uncertainty on the process node used because some people had access to stolen IPs and said otherwise, but it also could be made up. But I think it's fair to say the monolithic chip approach should definitely improve the critical path so I'm very curious to see how much fabric clocks can take. We would probably need someone owning a very recent Ryzen 4000 to push his clocks to see if this checks out. I'll try to find someone on the subreddit to do it. Nevermind, Ryzen 4000 runs LPDDR4-4266 so it supports 2133MHz fabric clocks, woops :)

The decompressor is an ASIC nothings to do with a Zen2 core. They just compare to power needed by Zen 2 core to decompress 5.5 GB/s with the same kraken compression factor to reach 8/9 GB/s.

EDIT: Same on MS side they compare it to the number if Zen2 core to decompress zlib or BCPack.
 
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Deleted member 4274

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The current gen didn't really bring anything except better visuals and some bigger worlds. Next gen is looking to be different.
Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.
 

chris 1515

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Oct 27, 2017
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Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.

Games with teleportation, better game and level design(no elevator, no corridor), more detailed and lively worlds. High quality of assets everywhere, better desctruction and so on...
 
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Mar 22, 2020
87
The decompressor is an ASICs nothings to do with a Zen2 core. They just compare to power needed by Zen 2 core to decompress 5.5 GB/s with the same kraken compression factor to reach 8/9 GB/s.
You misunderstand me.
The Tempest Engine is an ASIC ~ a repurposed CU, but it doesn't mean it's taking that CU from somewhere, it means it's design reuse.
Similarly the decompression ASIC ~ a large SIMD unit that equals 8/9 Zen2 cores SIMD throughput. It makes sense because data is contiguous. We don't have a clearer definition.
 

chris 1515

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You misunderstand me.
The Tempest Engine is an ASIC ~ a repurposed CU, but it doesn't mean it's taking that CU from somewhere, it means it's design reuse.
Similarly the decompression ASIC ~ a large SIMD unit that equals 8/9 Zen2 cores SIMD throughput. It makes sense because data is contiguous. We don't have a clearer definition.

The code is different than on CPU for the decompressor. There is some tweet from Fabian Giesen of RAD Tools (Rygorous) on twitter where he told the implementation is different than on a CPU.

The Tempest Engine is an hybrid CU/SPU because SPU runs great nearly 100% utilisation for Audio.The CELL was better than the PS4 Jaguar CPU for audio.

EDIT: Naughty Dog Audio dev call the Tempest engine an SPU

unknown.png
 
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Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.

SSD might creat new genres but, what it will do for sure is to take current genres to a hole new level.

RPG with massive open worlds, lets take this example, have you haver watch a movie/series were you enter in a city and everything fells alive? That is something that you never see in a game, with a SSD, that is now possible.
 

LookAtMeGo

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Oct 25, 2017
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a parallel universe
I'm having trouble thinking of new genres. But I'm not a game dev. I'm thinking that some of the design choices they will be able to make because of it will change existing genres in some pretty creative ways. I imagine it will be game changing enough that going back to playing games designed to work with an HDD will feel more like a generational leap then what we see on the visual end of things.
 

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Games with teleportation, better game and level design(no elevator, no corridor), more detailed worlds. High quality of assets everywhere, better desctruction and so on...
Thanks! Genres, though? For instance load time hiding elevators, corridors, etc improves QOL, so better. Better destruction, is just that, better distraction.

Every new gen brings some gameplay or new genres to the table, but I can't see how the SSD in either system can bring about new genre's. I see the benefit towards game design. Hmmm, as I tap, NOW I'm more interested in the controller. If it has the heart monitor on it, that could usher in some crazy shit.
 
Mar 22, 2020
87
The code is different than on CPU for the decompressor. There is some tweet from Fabian Giesen of RAD Tools (Rygorous) on twitter where he told the implementation is different than on a CPU.
twitter.com

Fabian Giesen on Twitter

“To make this clear wrt the Kraken in PS5 thing: we (RAD) did not design the (ridiculously good) HW decoders! That was two awesome teams at Sony and AMD who deserve all the credit. :)”
Yes, the decoder does act as a black box for users: put data in, get decompressed data back, I'm not pretending it's running similar CPU instructions, because it's an ASIC. But it does execute the same function, so there is reuse but reorganization of base components in the FMA arrays.
 

chris 1515

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Thanks! Genres, though? For instance load time hiding elevators, corridors, etc improves QOL, so better. Better destruction, is just that, better distraction.

Every new gen brings some gameplay or new genres to the table, but I can't see how the SSD in either system can bring about new genre's. I see the benefit towards game design. Hmmm, as I tap, NOW I'm more interested in the controller. If it has the heart monitor on it, that could usher in some crazy shit.

I am not game designer if there is a new genres it will comes from the studios and probably from indies studio.
 
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Wollan

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Question about the Tempest CU:
If I understand it correctly the PS5 APU/GPU is derived from 40 CU wafer where 4 are left idle due to yields.
Does this mean in actuality that only 3 are left idle with one being reserved as the Tempest CU? Or is that not how things work.
 

DavidDesu

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Oct 29, 2017
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Would love to see From go back to making "60"fps games and maybe use the SSD speed for a really creative fade in effect with fog when using fast travel rather than the boring load screens.
In all honesty loading screens are basically defunct at this point. Even XSX will load up games in a few seconds. A fade to black and back again is better than a stupid spinning icon appearing and disappearing after 4 seconds. I wonder how developers will deal with this. A lot less chance for control screens and the like. I really do hope they don't force you to press a button to continue and thus negate the whole benefit of the fast storage and super fast loading.
 

chris 1515

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Tempest is like having a sound card inside the PS5. This is not like Steam Audio where you reserved some CU inside the GPU for Audio. Here the description by a third party audio dev.



 
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DavidDesu

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Oct 29, 2017
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Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.
This might be a bit of a stretch because it's really just an open world game, but with the SSDs you can pretty much run anything, at any time because the loading is so fast. You can swap out everything in seconds, or even just very large chunks but in literally imperceptible amounts of time.

What I mean is, you can have an open world game that has the fidelity of a full on racing sim, a full on FIFA sports game, a golf game, a flight simulator and so on. Imagine GTA but when you go to a tennis court you don't get a really simple version of it, but it immediately switches to a full on tennis game. You could have racing tracks that you discover and you can take part in a race at the fidelity of Gran Turismo. Take off and you could have a flight sim level game at your disposal and travel the world.

Now of course this would require untold man hours and effort and cost to produce such a game but I can sort of imagine a future game only possible with this new technology. Imagine the PlayStation game universe (like a movie universe franchise), except every game is inter playable on a truly massive open world. Like GTA on steroids.

I'm waffling but I guess what I'm saying is that with these sorts of speeds ( which will only ever get faster from this point on) you have basically unlimited potential, you're still limited by CPU and rendering but ultimately you can now do anything you want, a real life simulator becomes more viable because you will be able to handle far far more data that is required because wit all just flies in off the storage in real time basically (especially you can imagine the generation after next gen, your storage probably could be virtually as fast as your RAM, or at the very least the relationship between RAM and storage and CPU/GPU will become a lot more fluid).
 
Mar 22, 2020
87
Question about the Tempest CU:
If I understand it correctly the PS5 APU/GPU is derived from 40 CU wafer where 4 are left idle due to yields.
Does this mean in actuality that only 3 are left idle with one being reserved as the Tempest CU? Or is that not how things work.
I don't know if they added 4 spare CUs in case, but even though they reuse some of the logic in a CU, they need unique wiring and datapath and a specific area for the SPU. So there wouldn't be 40 times the unique logic over the GPU just in case to pick a functional one.
 

Praedyth

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Feb 25, 2020
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Go back and look at every groundbreaking game in prior generations. I think you'll find that brilliant game design ideas are often the impetus for progress, rather than new hardware.

I know, but there's no denying that this new hardware will allow devs to have more freedom over what they want to create. (Like Spiderman, where the speed of the HDD limits the speed of the character.) I'm not saying that this new genres will come just from the hardware, but the ideas behind those will be enable by it.

But I may be wrong, I'm not a game developer anyway.
 
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Praedyth

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Feb 25, 2020
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Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.
I don't think anyone can give examples. We can only point things that we know and use today and how they will be better, but we can't guess what will be invented by game developers. This is exciting. It is up to their imagination, maybe...
 

dgrdsv

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Oct 25, 2017
11,886
EDIT: Naughty Dog Audio dev call the Tempest engine an SPU
"SPU" is just a different name for a SIMD unit.

Question about the Tempest CU:
If I understand it correctly the PS5 APU/GPU is derived from 40 CU wafer where 4 are left idle due to yields.
Does this mean in actuality that only 3 are left idle with one being reserved as the Tempest CU? Or is that not how things work.
Tempest is a separate customized CU walled off from the GPU via APIs - and I'm not sure that it's inside the APU even?
 

chris 1515

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Oct 27, 2017
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"SPU" is just a different name for a SIMD unit.


Tempest is a separate customized CU walled off from the GPU via APIs - and I'm not sure that it's inside the APU even?

Yes it is an SIMD unit but the memory model works differently no cache and DMA call with a scratchpad memory. This is what is an SPU and it works perfectly for hardware. For example CELL SPU is very strong with fast fourier transform and all algorithm around audio processing... ;)

www.oreilly.com

Programming the Cell Processor: For Games, Graphics, and Computation

10. Introducing the Synergistic Processor Unit (SPU) The PowerPC Processor Unit (PPU) has many strengths, but the Cell’s extraordinary computing capability comes from its Synergistic Processor Units (SPUs). Unlike the … - Selection from Programming the Cell Processor: For Games, Graphics, and...

Unlike the general-purpose PPU, the SPUs were designed with a single goal in mind: high-speed vector processing. You won't use SPUs for text processing, code compiling, or e-mail; but if you need to transform hundreds of thousands of pixels to a new coordinate system, SPUs will get the job done quickly.


The SPU's architecture is much simpler than the PPU's. There are no caches, no threads, no paging, and no memory segments. There are only two types of user registers. With the SPU, you don't have to worry about microcoded instructions, ..
 
Mar 22, 2020
87
Tempest is a separate customized CU walled off from the GPU via APIs - and I'm not sure that it's inside the APU even?
I would still expect it to be part of the APU actually, unless there is a point for it to be anywhere else.

Yes but the memory model works differently no cache and DMA call with a scratchpad memory. This is what is an SPU and it works perfectly for hardware. For example CELL SPU is very straong with fast fourier transform and all algorithm around audio processing... ;)
Nobody is arguing it's not a unique module and doesn't deserve to be called SPU.
Please stop copy-pasting Sony marketing and designations, it's not helping in any way the conversation.
 

Wollan

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If it is technically feasible to use one of those 4 idle CU's as the Tempest engine then that would be highly valuable for Sony. Can't the system just bypass the non-used cache? I remember the PS4 having an extra 20GBps bus for directly bypassing L2 and L1 cache. If the PS5 APU is backwards-compatible with PS4 it needs to have a built-in-way for sidestepping the cache.
 

chris 1515

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I would still expect it to be part of the APU actually, unless there is a point for it to be anywhere else.


Nobody is arguing it's not a unique module and doesn't deserve to be called SPU.
Please stop copy-pasting Sony marketing and designations, it's not helping in any way the conversation.

No it is an SPU because there is no cache, another people accusing Mark Cerny of lying. This the memory model which make the tempest engine an SPU. They said it it means this an SPU. This is not a marketing subject. This is the reality and this is why they said and is is the truth PS3 with CELL was in theory better than PS4 on audio.

At the end this has nothing to do with marketing

ETauYljVAAAxmV2


This a CU without cache what make an SPU is the memorty model Local scrapthpad memory and DMA. Or if you prefer is an hybrid CU/SPU but it changes everything. We aren't sure it is a Navi CU, the CU can use GCN.

EDIT: This all in the Road to PS5 video.
 
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Mula

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Jan 18, 2019
280
Can this spu be used to calculate only global illumination, for example? I remember a statement from square that the PS5 is very programmable
 

Bold One

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Oct 30, 2017
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how about we discuss some prospective new features of the PS5 instead fixating about numbers, PR and other stuff none of us understand.

From PS3 to PS4, much better remote play, video recordings and screenshots, livestreaming, shareplay and social features are added.

What other new features can we expect the PS5 to have?
FOV slider an more customisation to how I want to experience my games.

Go further with the share button and make photomode intrinsic with every game and maybe a machinima type feature so I can finally challenge SunhiLegend.
 

Wollan

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No it is an SPU because there is no cache, another people accusing Mark Cerny of lying. This the memory model which make the tempest engine an SPU. They said it it means this an SPU. This is not a marketing subject. This is the reality and this is why they said and is is the truth PS3 with CELL was in theory better than PS4 on audio.
They can just leave the cache as idle and unused and just bypass it surely.
The PS5 APU is backwards compatible with the PS4. The PS4 had a separate bus for bypassing the L2 and L1 cache due to asynchronous compute needs. Which likely means the PS5 has an equivalent implementation.

"Though based on AMD's GCN architecture, there are several known differentiating factors between the PS4's GPU and current-gen PC graphics cards featuring first-gen GCN architecture:
  • An additional dedicated 20 GB/s bus that bypasses L1 and L2 GPU cache for direct system memory access, reducing synchronisation challenges when performing fine-grained GPGPU compute tasks."
So the Tempest CU might just be part of the PS5 APU. It seems kinda crazy to wire up memory etc. totally separately to a standalone Tempest engine outside of the APU. Not exactly cost (and bandwidth?) effective.
 

Deleted member 10847

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People don't know the difference between lying and PR, Cerny is not lying, Ken kutagari didn't lie either, we just didn't see the 4D PS3 games yet.
 

Fafalada

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Oct 27, 2017
3,067
Sampler feedback basically works like this: A "dummy" texture sampling is performed and the locations of sampling are recorded, so that in the second pass where you perform the real sampling, you can avoid performing calculations on / loading the unused area of the texture.
To be fair that doesn't make that original comment about 'waste' any less stupid - as we've been implementing analogue of exactly that(determination of what texture data you need to render) on consoles for the past 20 years - starting on PS2 where there were even ways to hardware accelerate it. The latest hardware extensions make things easier (or at least more efficient on modern GPUs), and as you mention it has other creative uses, but it's less of a new invention and more an evolution of things that have been around for a long while.
It's not like Partially Resident Textures were a new thing when DirectX introduced them either - the actual innovation in hardware 'there' was having GPUs map the virtual address space, and even that happened somewhere in 1999 for the first time in consumer cards.

Anyway - I do think that using precise mapping of texture usage will only be of value for titles that fully embrace SSD design though - there's no practical benefit if you're still enforcing it to run on HDDs as you'll have to cache things in a much wider range to cope with massive increase in I/O latency. Even on SSD, the application is not exactly straightforward.
 

chris 1515

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They can just leave the cache as idle and unused and just bypass it surely.
The PS5 APU is backwards compatible with the PS4. The PS4 had a separate bus for bypassing the L2 and L1 cache due to asynchronous compute needs. Which likely means the PS5 has an equivalent implementation.

"Though based on AMD's GCN architecture, there are several known differentiating factors between the PS4's GPU and current-gen PC graphics cards featuring first-gen GCN architecture:
  • An additional dedicated 20 GB/s bus that bypasses L1 and L2 GPU cache for direct system memory access, reducing synchronisation challenges when performing fine-grained GPGPU compute tasks."

Why they will do this let some cache inside the CU this is stupid and Mark Cerny said we strip of it cache one CU. This is some unused die space for nothing.

EDIT:
Audio is more latency sensitive than graphics. For efficiency, it is better to use it as a discreet chip out of the GPU or to reserved CU inside the GPU like Steam Audio but this is a problem on consoles because graphics people don't want to let the resources to audio people.

A good postmortem of audio on HSA architecture:
fr.slideshare.net

MM-4085, Designing a game audio engine for HSA, by Laurent Betbeder

MM-4085, Designing a game audio engine for HSA, by Laurent Betbeder - Téléchargez le document au format PDF ou consultez-le gratuitement en ligne
 
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Mar 22, 2020
87
Nobody is arguing it's not a unique module and doesn't deserve to be called SPU.
No it is an SPU because there is no cache, another people accusing Mark Cerny of lying. This the memory model which make the tempest engine an SPU. They said it it means this an SPU.
it works perfectly for hardware. For example CELL SPU is very straong with fast fourier transform and all algorithm around audio processing... ;)
Please stop copy-pasting Sony marketing and designations, it's not helping in any way the conversation.
At the end this has nothing to do with marketing

But... nobody is arguing over this. Nobody called Cerny a liar about the audio ASIC.

EDIT: you might have a problem understanding double negation chris 1515
 

gofreak

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Oct 26, 2017
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Can this spu be used to calculate only global illumination, for example? I remember a statement from square that the PS5 is very programmable

It's intended for audio, but you could put anything on there that fits the programming model and can be done within its performance budget. I can see some devs 'stealing' some time away for non-audio work though, and that'll be interesting. Based on Cerny's comments it should be around 100Gflops of SIMD pef. So it might be a CU running at around 800Mhz. Or maybe a 32-stream-processor CU running at something closer to normal clocks.
 

Deleted member 20297

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Can this spu be used to calculate only global illumination, for example? I remember a statement from square that the PS5 is very programmable
The C64 programmers used the floppy controller in the end so everything helps, I guess.
On a serious note, it depends, but this is reaching JeffRigby levels of fantasy where he dreamed for a long time that special accelerators in the current gen consoles could do anything meaningful.
 

chris 1515

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And SPU being good at audio is not marketing you have very good benchmark in Linux comparing CPU against SPU and they are much faster but you need to search archive on IBM website about CELL architecture or search old topic on B3D.

You can find some program you can test on OG PS3 with other system option and they are very fast...

EDIT: If it was not the case, Sony would have use a CU with cache for Tempest Engine...
 

Pantato

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Nov 5, 2019
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This might be a bit of a stretch because it's really just an open world game, but with the SSDs you can pretty much run anything, at any time because the loading is so fast. You can swap out everything in seconds, or even just very large chunks but in literally imperceptible amounts of time.

What I mean is, you can have an open world game that has the fidelity of a full on racing sim, a full on FIFA sports game, a golf game, a flight simulator and so on. Imagine GTA but when you go to a tennis court you don't get a really simple version of it, but it immediately switches to a full on tennis game. You could have racing tracks that you discover and you can take part in a race at the fidelity of Gran Turismo. Take off and you could have a flight sim level game at your disposal and travel the world.

Now of course this would require untold man hours and effort and cost to produce such a game but I can sort of imagine a future game only possible with this new technology. Imagine the PlayStation game universe (like a movie universe franchise), except every game is inter playable on a truly massive open world. Like GTA on steroids.

I'm waffling but I guess what I'm saying is that with these sorts of speeds ( which will only ever get faster from this point on) you have basically unlimited potential, you're still limited by CPU and rendering but ultimately you can now do anything you want, a real life simulator becomes more viable because you will be able to handle far far more data that is required because wit all just flies in off the storage in real time basically (especially you can imagine the generation after next gen, your storage probably could be virtually as fast as your RAM, or at the very least the relationship between RAM and storage and CPU/GPU will become a lot more fluid).


To better understand how much of a revolution the PS5 SSD is, let's look at how things work on a PC.

The graphic card is connected to the main system memory with a PCIE bus, most of us are still using PCIE 3.0 16x, which has a theoretical bandwidth of 16GB/s.
Game data would need to be transfered from the mass storage (HDD or SSD) to the main RAM, and then to the VRAM via the PCIE bus at a real world speed of about 13GB/s.

That's pretty close from the typical 9GB/s compressed from the PS5 SSD into its unified RAM.

So, in PC terms, from the PS5 GPU point of view, it's like it has access to a gigantic 825GB of system RAM. Of course it's a bit of an oversimplification, but you get the idea.

Now, imagine the games that could be done with this amount of RAM!
 

chris 1515

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I'm not well versed in wafers & APU construction. But isn't the actual L1 cache part of the wafer?

Why do you want them to modify a CU inside the GPU to make the Tempest Engine less efficient because it will share memory access with the other CUs and the memory model is very different of the other CUs and GPU aren't memory latency sensitive, audio is memory latency sensitive.
 
Mar 22, 2020
87
So, in PC terms, from the PS5 GPU point of view, it's like it has access to a gigantic 825GB of system RAM.
I would advise against oversimplifying that much, bandwidth and latency in DRAM are nowhere near.
I'm not well versed in wafers & APU construction. But isn't the actual L1 cache part of the wafer?
Everything is part of the die, you can look at Scorpio for reference. All the parts that aren't annotated as part of the CPU, GPU blobs or the PHY links are display, I/O and routing logic across the whole SoC. In the case of the PS5, from the conference I think it's fair to say Sony also has additional ASICs outside the GPU and CPU, but still sharing some functional or structural similarities, for instance their Tempest Engine goes next to the DMA controller and doesn't have any cache in it.
 

Binabik15

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Oct 28, 2017
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Tempest is like having a sound card inside the PS5. This is not like Steam Audio where you reserved some CU inside the GPU for Audio. Here the description by a third party audio dev.






Playing Doom with headphones is already better than playing with tv speakers (I don't have my 5.1 system set up anymore :/ ), but good 3D audio would be so much more intersting than better lighting or more stable frame rate. As Cerny said, locating an enemy by sound alone would be so, so good. Our ears are fantastic pieces of flesh-y hardware and our cochleae as well and right now they're an afterthought in most games. Especially VR would benefit a lot from 3D audio and given what Sony put into PS5 (haptic feedback on DS5, a chunky audio chip, fast SSD to make the OS and content load really fast for you instead of staring at loading screens that kill immersion)) I'm getting the feeling that PSVR2 will be a big push for them.


PS: Any good videos for 3D audio examples I can share with people?
 

Signa

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Mar 26, 2020
11
Playing Doom with headphones is already better than playing with tv speakers (I don't have my 5.1 system set up anymore :/ ), but good 3D audio would be so much more intersting than better lighting or more stable frame rate. As Cerny said, locating an enemy by sound alone would be so, so good. Our ears are fantastic pieces of flesh-y hardware and our cochleae as well and right now they're an afterthought in most games. Especially VR would benefit a lot from 3D audio and given what Sony put into PS5 (haptic feedback on DS5, a chunky audio chip, fast SSD to make the OS and content load really fast for you instead of staring at loading screens that kill immersion)) I'm getting the feeling that PSVR2 will be a big push for them.


PS: Any good videos for 3D audio examples I can share with people?

Search for 'Project Acoustics' on Youtube to get an idea of what the PS5 solution may sound like.
This video also has some examples, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY4G-GUAQIE
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,171
Washington, D.C.
Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.
Did you play Titanfall 2? Genuine question.
 

Mula

Banned
Jan 18, 2019
280
Playing Doom with headphones is already better than playing with tv speakers (I don't have my 5.1 system set up anymore :/ ), but good 3D audio would be so much more intersting than better lighting or more stable frame rate. As Cerny said, locating an enemy by sound alone would be so, so good. Our ears are fantastic pieces of flesh-y hardware and our cochleae as well and right now they're an afterthought in most games. Especially VR would benefit a lot from 3D audio and given what Sony put into PS5 (haptic feedback on DS5, a chunky audio chip, fast SSD to make the OS and content load really fast for you instead of staring at loading screens that kill immersion)) I'm getting the feeling that PSVR2 will be a big push for them.


PS: Any good videos for 3D audio examples I can share with people?

This with headphones
youtu.be

Virtual Barber Shop (Audio...use headphones, close ur eyes)

You'll need headphones for this to work. Make sure there is no noise around, close your eyes, turn the volume up a little bit, hold and press headphone on yo...
 
Does anyone mind giving examples as to how new genres could be born the devices SSD? As excited I am for the PS5, I don't see the benefits besides faster load times/ faster travel and bigger open worlds. I mean, that's cool, but so what? I apologize if It's been discussed. Big thread, and I lack imagination.

Somebody gave pretty interesting idea: Ant-man the game, game in which you can instantly change scale of the world 1000x both ways while keeping quality of the assets at the same high level.
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
Playing Doom with headphones is already better than playing with tv speakers (I don't have my 5.1 system set up anymore :/ ), but good 3D audio would be so much more intersting than better lighting or more stable frame rate. As Cerny said, locating an enemy by sound alone would be so, so good. Our ears are fantastic pieces of flesh-y hardware and our cochleae as well and right now they're an afterthought in most games. Especially VR would benefit a lot from 3D audio and given what Sony put into PS5 (haptic feedback on DS5, a chunky audio chip, fast SSD to make the OS and content load really fast for you instead of staring at loading screens that kill immersion)) I'm getting the feeling that PSVR2 will be a big push for them.


PS: Any good videos for 3D audio examples I can share with people?
 
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