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PlayStation 5 Specs Revealed by EuroGamer (See Threadmarks)
- Thread starter Deleted member 18944
- Start date
Oh the news just gets better and better!
_rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”twitter.com
44% better raytracing
So this is the confusing part for me. The SSD in the PS5 is awesome and special, but if you end up running games off some expanded SSD wouldn't it not get the same benefits? Would there be any reason why I wouldn't want to run a game off the stock SSD rather than the extra 2tb SSD I install?
it has to be approved. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...s-and-tech-that-deliver-sonys-next-gen-vision
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Yes. We will have to wait third party multi platforms games to see how less CU higher frequency goes against more CU weaker frequency.
But having a SSD twice faster is a big assets. So the GPU won't be faster but feeded way quicker. It is always about bottleneck.
That means on a "static" scene, XSX probably be prettier on all effects.
But when you move, faster SSD means you call load stream data two times faster. It is huge. That means you can have higher LOD of distant objects.
Pop-in and LOD transition are one of the main problem this gen on consoles (and awful shadows, but that an other issue). Spider Man is quite impressive in both of those, but the cost is slow traversal.
Before this conference I was certain it would be 4 gen of PS backwards compatible. MS is lightyears ahead in terms of BC and it seems there is no way PS is ever going to catch up, they are falling back even more. I will get the PS5 at launch because I'm a sucker, but not even full PS4 back compat let alone further back is a huge disappointment for me...
The expandable NVME slot has all the same bandwidth as the built in SSD has. However, the Built in SSD has more prioritization layers (6 i think) the standard SSD (2), and even a 5.5GBs SSD will be too slow, it's likely going to need to be a 7GBs SSD (not fully determined yet since no SSDs on the market today will work.
Lmao at people defending this laughably unclear messaging. 😭
yup
Thanks for the info, but the "shouldn't need to" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me - you can throw as much at the GPU as you want in terms of texture size/resolution, post-processing effects etc. to fill the available VRAM. Some games even have estimated counters for it and there are a few that allow me to approach the upper end of my 2080Ti on PC at least.
If there was extra RAM there to use, I'm sure first party devs could take advantage of it right?
For the XSX though, the 2.5GB reserved for the system is all from the slower RAM. So the XSX split for games is 10GB of RAM with a bandwidth of 560GB/s, and only 3.5GB of RAM with a bandwidth of 336GB/s, so nearly 75% of the total RAM pool runs at the higher bandwidth.
So while it seems like a fairly even split between faster and slower portions of RAM, the pool available to games leans more more heavily towards the faster RAM, for a clearer on-paper advance for XSX.
Yeah, the specs gap here is largely in favour of XSX but it's close enough that it won't harm Sony unless they also get several other things wrong, like the price and marketing.
Ah exclusives, fair enough. Yeah I'm hoping to see some SpiderMan 2 footage, needs to be gameplay though, not a teaser (in an ideal world).
I'm so confused on backwards compatibility. So is there a legacy mode which runs every PS4 game but the testing and 100 games working are games running on PS5 boost mode and using the higher power of the machine or is it just 100 games working on BC?
because it sounds like the latter and if so that's not good.
because it sounds like the latter and if so that's not good.
No, 20-30% better. It has 44% more RT cores, but PS5 is clocked higher (2-2.23Ghz). The intersection engines are inside the TMUs, which operate like everything else on a cycle basis._rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”
44% better raytracing
The variable frequency stuff is not clear to me 100%. So can it run at both those frequencies with 100% utilisation?
I don't really have a good picture yet of how RT acceleration looks on RDNA2. If it's a function of their CUs or if they have something discrete like the RTX cards do. So we really don't know. But that would be significant difference in power. A 1080 Ti can handle some ray traced reflections in BF5.
Price will determine who has the advantage.
At $399 vs $499, the spec difference is in Sonys favour and I think they will dominate the gen. At $499 each US market will likely fall back in Xboxs favour and worldwide Sony will still come out ahead, by how much is impossible to say.
Then you have the possibility of only a $50 advantage or maybe both are $499, or $499 vs $599 usd dollars. Lots of variable to consider. But ultimately price will dictate the "wow factor' of the console.
At $399 vs $499, the spec difference is in Sonys favour and I think they will dominate the gen. At $499 each US market will likely fall back in Xboxs favour and worldwide Sony will still come out ahead, by how much is impossible to say.
Then you have the possibility of only a $50 advantage or maybe both are $499, or $499 vs $599 usd dollars. Lots of variable to consider. But ultimately price will dictate the "wow factor' of the console.
Finally got around to watching the video and it's really interesting how a high speed ssd can improve games beyond loading times i.e. you can use more of the RAM for your game at any instance because you don't have to store things in memory that might not be needed in the next 30 seconds or so.
the presentation was clear, it has a lot to be excited about but everyone is just spinning Cerny's words, even saying theres no BC at all.
So you foresee a game where the CPU uses under 3.5GB and GPU uses over 10GB? That's a wacky ass game. Maybe CS:GO running at 16K? I dunno. lol
Agree. This conference only brought confusion and frustration to the fans.
It would have been better to do nothing rather than push it to public
My understanding is that RT is built into each RDNA2 CU, rather than separate. AMD RT should scale with # of CUs and Clock, just like TFs.
We may not all be "know-it-alls" but there are some developers and industry professionals that frequent ResetEra that'll tell it like it is. You don't have to look very hard to find them in this very thread explaining things to people.
Ahhh ok.... Than i misheard. Thank you for correcting it :)
See above......
I get the same feeling. Those "OC" clocks aren't permanent.
It makes sense for Chips at equal TF - XSX is of course just higher so I think it is a point for a theoretical console with same tf number that is wider.
We also need decidedly more Info on how GPU utilisation or CPU utilisation affect the PS5 clocking. We have unfortunately no idea of that.
This is all really exciting. I think the Tempest 3D audio is the standout news from this, it could be a very significant differentiator for the PS5. Audio is half the experience after all.
It will be very interesting to see how performance varies with multi-platform games compared to the Xbox Series X. I was expecting both boxes to be pretty much the same like current gen, but there's quite a difference in how the PS5 actually works. I predict both with have their strengths and weaknesses rather than one being definitively better than the other.
Ultimately I love that the PS5 actually feels like an exotic piece of technology rather than just a small PC. It's kind of like the old days.
Price and games will be the main decider in the market of course, as always. Both Microsoft and Sony have great first party studios now and I expect both will have one or two killer titles at launch, unlike previous generations where it normally takes months for a must-play game to actually come out.
My prediction; coming off the momentum of PS4 and the possibility of hitting a slightly lower price point, plus maybe Horizon 2 and another big game at launch (Bluepoint's remake?), Sony may have the edge, but it's going to be way closer than last time. I'm genuinely excited for both consoles.
It will be very interesting to see how performance varies with multi-platform games compared to the Xbox Series X. I was expecting both boxes to be pretty much the same like current gen, but there's quite a difference in how the PS5 actually works. I predict both with have their strengths and weaknesses rather than one being definitively better than the other.
Ultimately I love that the PS5 actually feels like an exotic piece of technology rather than just a small PC. It's kind of like the old days.
Price and games will be the main decider in the market of course, as always. Both Microsoft and Sony have great first party studios now and I expect both will have one or two killer titles at launch, unlike previous generations where it normally takes months for a must-play game to actually come out.
My prediction; coming off the momentum of PS4 and the possibility of hitting a slightly lower price point, plus maybe Horizon 2 and another big game at launch (Bluepoint's remake?), Sony may have the edge, but it's going to be way closer than last time. I'm genuinely excited for both consoles.
I think Sony were going for a 2019 launch with 36CUs, but when things were delayed to 2020, instead of adding more CUs and having to redesign things significantly, they clocked their RDNA2 chip like crazy. That's how we got here.
Energy consumption of 36CU @ 2-2.23 GHz is probably similar to 52CU @ 1.82GHz. Bad design decisions all around...Cerny was outplayed.
Energy consumption of 36CU @ 2-2.23 GHz is probably similar to 52CU @ 1.82GHz. Bad design decisions all around...Cerny was outplayed.
Yeah I get that. I don't doubt it's more powerful. Maybe noticeably so. I just know Cerny talked about raw numbers not being a good way to measure in a theoretical sense and some of the examples he gave made sense to me on a basic level. Granted if the XSX cores are similar to the PS5 cores and they have that many more that seems huge.
Same.
Sony's chip is actually a custom CU that is similar to an SPU (Cell). They should have taken that budget and beefed up their GPU. A standard 2-4GB/s SSD also would save money....for a 14TF beefy GPU.
So the rumor about BC struggles was true. It was really the "oh" moment of the presentation.
The question is does the bandwidth is enough for the PS5 or not. And I doesn't have enough technical knowledge to answer.
The fact RAM will be filled twice faster is more important I think. Data streaming is such important in how games are made today, I think it was the best solution.
The question is does the bandwidth is enough for the PS5 or not. And I doesn't have enough technical knowledge to answer.
Woo, those numbers certainly look like numbers.
I only really play the PS4 (and likely the PS5) for exclusives so that all looks fine to me.
For folks who's console it will be the main preference then, juding from this generation, there'll likely be no real differences between the 5 and Series X until much later in the generation and even then that won't be that huge, right?
If you're playing and not analyzing, who cares.
I only really play the PS4 (and likely the PS5) for exclusives so that all looks fine to me.
For folks who's console it will be the main preference then, juding from this generation, there'll likely be no real differences between the 5 and Series X until much later in the generation and even then that won't be that huge, right?
If you're playing and not analyzing, who cares.
Did you not understand what was said? It is for people like you to get virtual surround sound.....Everyone else with a actual surround setup.........nope
So my thinking is that the clock reduction is tied to the example early on in the video with all the different first party games listed based on the fan noise, God of War being the noisiest. Now God of War doesn't take more advantage of the PS4 hardware in terms of clocks than HZD or Drive Club but some workloads in that game just make the hardware draw more power, increasing the heat and sending the fans into overdrive. These workloads are not necessarily tied to clocks but to specific usage of the system that Cerny/Sony didn't initially predict. This could cause a seemingly static menu screen to make the fans go crazy and in other instances a game can seriously push the hardware at fast framerates and you will only hear a slight background hum.
From what I understand, when the PS5 equivalent of God of War comes along or a seemingly harmless menu screen starts starts drawing beyond the 300w "soft limit" for power consumption, the system will clock itself down dynamically so the power draw stays at 300w, in the same scenario the PS4 Pro instead opts to kill the user using high frequency sound waves to melt their brain.
This is more about predicting use cases and performance profiles than it is about CPU and GPU not being able to hit sustained max clocks at the same time. Uncharted 5 might make the GPU draw more power during a specific use case than Gran Turismo 7 even though GT7 maxes out the clocks 100% of the time.
From what I understand, when the PS5 equivalent of God of War comes along or a seemingly harmless menu screen starts starts drawing beyond the 300w "soft limit" for power consumption, the system will clock itself down dynamically so the power draw stays at 300w, in the same scenario the PS4 Pro instead opts to kill the user using high frequency sound waves to melt their brain.
This is more about predicting use cases and performance profiles than it is about CPU and GPU not being able to hit sustained max clocks at the same time. Uncharted 5 might make the GPU draw more power during a specific use case than Gran Turismo 7 even though GT7 maxes out the clocks 100% of the time.
Without seeing how constricting the case design might be for cooling, all this would be just wild guesses, no?
This is unlikely theory. The PS5 is based on RDNA2 which would not been possible to release last year. There is also tons of custom SSD work. So it would have been much more expensive last year then year to release.
I'm not sure about fillrate actually, this is tied to ROPs numbers and XSX has 320 bit bus while PS5 has 256 bit one which may mean that XSX has more ROPs too.
Everything on chip will scale with clocks. The obvious things which will get a sizeable boost are those which are scarce in numbers like geometry engines and such.
It is hard to say how much use the traditional geometry pipeline will get next gen though, considering that both MS and Sony seem to support Mesh/Primitive shaders which are a much more efficient option of handling geometry on newer GPUs.
This is how I understood what Cerny said. I thought I must have misheard things with everyone saying it was just for boost mode. Unfortunately my initial understanding was right.