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FrankNitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
593
SoCal
yes, but there's a chance you'll experience stutter in games depending on settings, ram, storage speed, etc. Like currently Shadow of the Tomb Raider stutters a lot in the hub area if you have less than a Ryzen 5 1600.
Eh yeah I'm not worries about all of that. I have a i9 9900k @ 5Ghz all core, 64GB DDR4 3200Mhz ram clocked @ 3600mhz, NVMe 970 Pro, and a 2080ti Kingpin. Pretty sure next gen consoles aren't touching most of that. If so I'll just play it on the consoles but eh. Will be fun to see what happens either way. I'm always upgrading something so this will be just another reason why I "need" the latest and greatest.
 
OP
OP
DonMigs85

DonMigs85

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,770
Eh yeah I'm not worries about all of that. I have a i9 9900k @ 5Ghz all core, 64GB DDR4 3200Mhz ram clocked @ 3600mhz, NVMe 970 Pro, and a 2080ti Kingpin. Pretty sure next gen consoles aren't touching most of that. If so I'll just play it on the consoles but eh. Will be fun to see what happens either way. I'm always upgrading something so this will be just another reason why I "need" the latest and greatest.
I think the best time to upgrade next in your case is when DDR5 is established. We should also be on Intel's next-next architecture by then. And if Nvidia still supports raytracing in the 4xxx series it should be a lot faster than the 2080 Ti.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,259
Eh yeah I'm not worries about all of that. I have a i9 9900k @ 5Ghz all core, 64GB DDR4 3200Mhz ram clocked @ 3600mhz, NVMe 970 Pro, and a 2080ti Kingpin. Pretty sure next gen consoles aren't touching most of that. If so I'll just play it on the consoles but eh. Will be fun to see what happens either way. I'm always upgrading something so this will be just another reason why I "need" the latest and greatest.

Just the suggestion that your 9900k is going to stutter as compared to a lower clocked, (likely) reduced cache 8 core CPU is laughable to begin with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,760
You're going to get the mobile equivalent of the CPU you think you're getting, with at least half a core dedicated to OS functions, maybe even a full core. Anyone with a decent processor will still be fine, and then we'll be done with console owner's fantasies about "closing the gap on PC" for another generation.
 

Mr Spasiba

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,779
Just wanted to give props to OP for sticking to their guns and continuing their fight even if most of the argument is theory-crafting and half-truths. I was sure after that first page the captain was going to abandon ship.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,250
To prove my point, I'm going to post a link from a graphics comparison of Oblivion from April 2006, five months after the console's launch, between the 360 version and three PCs ( low end, mid range, high end). You both believe that the 360 at launch blew past midrange PCs and was more powerful than even expensive high-end machines. Let's see if that's true.

www.gamespot.com

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- Xbox 360 versus PC

Trying to decide between the PC and Xbox 360 versions of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion? We're here to help you make the best choice.

It isn't. The Xbox 360 is competitive with midrange PCs of the previous year, as expected, and it falls behind against high end PCs, as expected.

My advice to everyone would be to make predictions and adjust expectations based on logic. Pricing, thermals, size, acoustics, these factors will always limit consoles against PCs. There's no getting around that.

The best GeForce cards that were available at the time were from the middle of 2004. I had what would have been considered the second best GPU at the time, and Oblivion ran like shit without using something like Streamline just to get it to run adequately. I never claimed that the console was better than the top of the line systems, but I do know that it ran better than on what would have been considered mid-high at the time, which was above average. The cards that were capable of blowing away the consoles on average did not appear until August 2006.

From that very article...

A medium spec PC with a decent processor and a mid-range DirectX 9 video card like a GeForce 6600 GT allows you to enable a few more graphics settings like view distance and some shadows. Take it easy on the view distance settings since they will lower the frame rate. The Xbox 360 version of the game looks slightly better overall, though not by much. It also runs smoother, though you can't see that from a still image. You can tweak a mid-range PC to look just as nice, but don't be surprised if frame rates dip into the teens.

Did you even read what you quoted? As I said, the 360 at the time of release ran the game better than an average PC. Not only did it run better, it looked better too.
 
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Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
PC hardware is already leagues ahead of whatever specs the next gen consoles will have.
 

Echo

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,482
Mt. Whatever
I am 100% sure that even a 6-core 8700k will outperform """next-gen""" console CPU's. Intel is still winning performance wise on a per-core basis and there is no way in hell consoles will ever be clocked at proper speeds.

Doubly so if you're willing to settle for 30-fps which I'm going to guess will still be standard on consoles. That saves you a good chunk of CPU overhead right there. I've played lots of AAA this gen that made my 1080ti really stress, especially at 4K, but for the life of me I can't get my 8700k to really work up a sweat.

... think the closest I got was Shadow of the Tomb Raider, DX-12 mode, 4K-60FPS, mix of ultra-high. And even then my CPU usage was only spiking to 65-70%.
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
User Banned (1 day): System warring
I read the first few pages and just saw a lot of salt, pc master racing, and insecurity about the size of their "ram".
 

FrankNitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
593
SoCal
Just the suggestion that your 9900k is going to stutter as compared to a lower clocked, (likely) reduced cache 8 core CPU is laughable to begin with.
Eh if the game is poorly optimized who knows but I wouldn't blame my CPU. I would say it's optimization. In all honesty though I don't have performance issues as is even when I play something with RTX on, and I still get 70-85+ frames at 1440p, 21:9, ultra settings. though at 4k I get 50-60 ish, unless I have Nvidia DLSS on which is trash because it kills render resolution but yeah...I don't really have performance issues.

Plus in most cases I'm GPU bound anyways. Nothing really taxes a 9900K much at all.

Which is why I said most 8 CORE CPU's that can be bought today should outpace the consoles depending on clock speed.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,421
The Sad Truth is, Next gen consoles will be holding back PC games. Not other way around.



PC's have had SSDs for nearly decade.



What are you talking about ?
SSDs were created by Cerny's brillant brain inside his bathtub and are going to release next year with PS5.

(But yes, even 500-600 bucks midrange laptop have an SSD now. Yet some people believe people are running on SATA2 5400RPM hard drives).
 

Finaika

Member
Dec 11, 2017
13,518
No, by the time next gen consoles come out, 16 core 32 threads CPUs will be the PC standard.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
The Sad Truth is, Next gen consoles will be holding back PC games. Not other way around.



PC's have had SSDs for nearly decade.

No. The very nature of the PC environment holds itself back just fine. PC WILL be holding these consoles back for a good while. This isn't about hardware numbers in a vacuum.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,586
No. The very nature of the PC environment holds itself back just fine. PC WILL be holding these consoles back for a good while. This isn't about hardware numbers in a vacuum.

No developer will hold back a next generation game due to low end PC users. They will raise the minimum specifications. It's always been that way.
 
OP
OP
DonMigs85

DonMigs85

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,770
Just the suggestion that your 9900k is going to stutter as compared to a lower clocked, (likely) reduced cache 8 core CPU is laughable to begin with.
you laugh but like I said, Shadow of the Tomb Raider stutters and gets low FPS in the main hub area if you have less than their recommended requirements (i7 4770K or Ryzen 5 1600). And both those CPUs are far more powerful than all 8 Jaguar cores in PS4 Pro/Xbone X. You always have to account for overhead and increased draw calls on PC even with the benefit of DirectX 12
 
OP
OP
DonMigs85

DonMigs85

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,770
My launch 2006 PS3 lasted 7.5 years with no issues running constantly but ok.
It's actually frequent on/off or heatup/cooldown cycles that did those consoles in sooner. It eventually cracks the lead-free solder they used from thermal expansion and contraction. Keeping them on longer actually prolongs their lifespans
 

lightchris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
684
Germany
OP, what kind of CPU do you have? I would be surprised if PC CPUs will be holding console gaming back. If you look at the Steam PC Hardware Survey the majority have a powerful enough CPU. Threading might be an issue and RAM as well.
However, I wouldn't mind having an excuse to upgrade my i7-8700k though....

Just took a loot at the Steam Hardware Survey.
As of September 2019, over 75% of users had 4 cores or less. Most of these CPUs will not be on par with the 8 core Zen 2 in consoles even when considering the latter having low clock speeds and a core reserved for the OS.
That number will of course be different when the new consoles release in 2020. But still, there will be a considerable amount of players with comparatively weak CPUs.

I still don't think that the average PC will hold back games though. Developers going for high-end non-crossgen titles will probably just not care and set the system requirements accordingly.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,675
perhaps they'll increase RAM requirements for PC ports as a workaround so they can cache more stuff in system RAM. Initial loads might be pretty long.
Either that or just slap a label/warning saying "this game needs to be installed on fast NVMe drive". No need to hold a large population back just because a tiny fraction still installs games on spinning drives.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,987
What are you talking about ?
SSDs were created by Cerny's brillant brain inside his bathtub and are going to release next year with PS5.

(But yes, even 500-600 bucks midrange laptop have an SSD now. Yet some people believe people are running on SATA2 5400RPM hard drives).

In the same article Cerny claimed that the PS5 will have SSD's faster than anything PC's can offer, he also made this claim:

But not all SSDs are created alike. As Cerny points out, "I have an SSD in my laptop, and when I want to change from Excel to Word I can wait 15 seconds."

Which is crazy amounts of hyperbole, even my most budget kingston SSD that is sitting in a 5 year old budget laptop can switch between office apps seamlessly. Like, come on lol. I very highly doubt SATA SSD's will be holding back anything for a long time.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
No developer will hold back a next generation game due to low end PC users. They will raise the minimum specifications. It's always been that way.

The difference between SSD and non SSD is still as such that raising min specs alone doesn't begin to bridge that gap. Low end PCs absolutely hold back game dev on PC and when building a multi platform title.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,869
The best GeForce cards that were available at the time were from the middle of 2004. I had what would have been considered the second best GPU at the time, and Oblivion ran like shit without using something like Streamline just to get it to run adequately. I never claimed that the console was better than the top of the line systems, but I do know that it ran better than on what would have been considered mid-high at the time, which was above average. The cards that were capable of blowing away the consoles on average did not appear until August 2006.

I don't understand what your argument is. The 6600GT that is used for the mid-range PC in the article launched on August 12, 2004. A claim was made that at launch the 360 was outperforming even expensive high-end PCs, while the truth is that the 360 was competing in performance with a mid-range graphics card that was already 16 months old by the time the console launched. I posted proof of that and the dates are accurate as per wikipedia. Facts speak for themselves.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Eh... Those console cpu will likely run on much lower clock speeds, so most of the 6 cores of PCs will still be faster.
 
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