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NYT: Saudi Teenager Who Fled Family Embraces All Things Canadian. (O.K., Maybe Not Winter.)
- Thread starter .Detective.
- Start date
This woman is a hero and hopefully she will inspire other women to flee horrific circumstances around the world.
Just don't let your media latch on to them and give them 24/7 access to promoting their hate like the US did.
Western society portrays Muslim women as completely helpless,, silenced, battered, abused, etc etc. Ignoring the fact that it's condescending, it also comes from an old colonist mentality that "These people are backwards and it's up to us to enlightened them." Basically a moral crusade that will unite Western conservatives, liberals, feminists, and sexists. It's also a way for the West to ignore its own backward views towards women. Again, I present you indigenous women in Canadian constantly fucked over.
And this has been going on for centuries. It's just that Islam is the current boogeyman
I'm sincerely happy for this young woman. She's not going to die. But I just know that everyone is itching the moment to use her for their fucked up since of superiority
True, but she's not going to be murdered by her own family here in Canada. I'd say this is definitely a step up in her ability to live a free life, regardless of Canada's problems.
Bienvenue au Canada! I hope the best for her ^_^
A couple weeks ago it got down to 39F (3.9C) during the coldest part of the night where I live and people lost their minds.
Women do seem to be vulnerable to being silenced, battered and abused in some Muslim countries if they don't follow religious behavioral codes. That even the suggestion of wanting to distance themselves from it they are subjected to state approved abuse. It even goes so far as to state imprisonment and torture if they wish to convince others to simply abandon a religion and its practices.
The difference in comparison with any mistreatment of indigenous peoples is that there is a secular open conversation, media coverage and investigation which leads to changes. There isn't a socially primitive zealous religious institution in charge of the government that enforces a continuing suppression.
At the risk of sounding heartless, could I humbly request you to elaborate as to how and why she's earned the title of "hero"?
To me, a hero is someone who sacrifices themselves (comfort, safety, etc) for the benefit of somebody else, or a large number of people. At the end of the day, this girl ran away from her family, because she didn't like the culture/society she was in. After she was out, she then publicly proclaimed her atheism, the only goal of which was to increase her perceived level of danger and lower the risk that she would be returned to her country, which turned out to be a good gamble for her. A hero is someone you would want others to emulate. What would be the end goal, for all girls/women in Saudi Arabia to flee and seek asylum elsewhere? Is that what we're encouraging and condoning? What did she sacrifice for someone else? Her fantasy was to run away and live in a western country, towards a lifestyle she preferred, and that's what she did. I don't see how anyone benefitted from her actions, or how anyone ever will.
Let me just make clear that I wish her all the best, I have no reason not to. I just don't see what aspects of what she did are heroic or commendable. We also have to acknowledge that we are basing all opinions on her side of a story, and hers alone. Let's not be naive enough to assume it's completely objective or accurate without truly knowing the facts. Kind of stunned with all the conclusive statements about her family in this thread (terrorists/evil/etc) , based on absolutely nothing but the words of a teen that doesn't want to live in Saudi Arabia.
"I want to do crazy things I've never done before,". Reasonable sentiments from a teen. But heroic? I can't see it.
She barricaded herself in her hotel room and tweeter herself to freedom while a government that chopped a journalist 2 months ago banged on the door. If you don't think that takes balls and makes her a hero, you are more than heartless.
Yeah, you do sound heartless. She risked her life because she could no longer tolerate the repression she received in Saudi Arabia. It will absolutely encourage other women to escape repression and seek better lives for themselves, particularly with the global support she has received and Canada's forward-thinking immigration policies. That makes a hero and if you can't see it, that says a lot more about you than it does her.
Pretty much this.
Also Tarek Fatah is an ass hat. Anyone with any credibility knows that. I wouldn't put to much stock in a single twitter post as a sign of anything.
No, I don't think trying to humbly understand what qualifies her as a hero "says" anything about me. So are you saying is that the end goal is to have all Saudi girls secretly abandon their families and leave the country, because they prefer a different lifestyle? I'm trying to figure out what exactly you want to "encourage" and what the end goal here is. Since drinking alcohol isn't allowed in Saudi, should all kids who want to drink flee the country? She had a glass of wine on the plane, so that's one thing she wanted and she couldn't easily get. What is the threshold at which you would encourage kids to run away from their families and their country? I'm sorry if that doesn't meet my personal threshold of "hero".
Thanks for the well thought out response, you got me there.
Always blown away how people can get away with direct ad hominem attacks here. Pretty sure my post was coherent and comprehensible, no matter how much you hated the question.
Kind of reminds me of that poster on the old place from Venezuala who was also trying to immigrate to Canada. Whatever happened to him?
A small, vocal minority that everybody ignores.
I've seen nothing but support for this from Canadians. All media reports are showing Canadians to be overwhelming in favor of accepting her and being empathetic to her story. Canada's opinion on Saudi Arabia's human rights policies are pretty one sided right now. You're not going to find a lot of disagreement about that.
No, it isn't really a garbage post, and that term isn't ludicrous. I've lived in almost dozen countries, including Saudi, Lebanon, European countries, the US, and Canada. I've been exposed to a wide variety of cultures and lifestyles, and I'm well aware that there are many that would risk a lot to move to a country with a different lifestyles and get away from their communities/families, even if they aren't being abused, oppressed, in a warzone, in danger, etc. It's not an insane concept, and personally I'm not willing to label her as a hero when I'm well aware of my ignorance when it comes to all the facts in her story.
I wouldn't call her a hero in my personal opinion. I'd certainly say her story is inspirational to a lot of women however that they can seek a different life and succeed.
But I'm not really sure what your end goal is in all this line of questions and defensiveness. Like, are you mad she left or? Do you think this is being embraced purely as Western superiority over other countries? (which honestly, some of the support is this) I don't get your angle.
Running away from an oppressive country is not a "lifestyle choice". Its certainly heroic to risk death at the hands of your dad and government. She's a hero in her own story and braver than the avarage person. Some people cant even do something harmless like cleaning a room without whining that KonMari or their mom is oppressing them.
Basic human rights, which are denied to Women in Saudi Arabia, aren't "a lifestyle".
The end goal is for women to be able to make decisions for their own lives. I don't see why that is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. If you want to devalue this to a person choosing to drink alcohol, then what can I say...
Happy for her, and I'm sure she'd be stunned by the local Muslim population in Canada, where Muslim women have as much freedom as anyone else, yet still practice thier belief as its thier personal choice.
But I do feel she's going to be extremely tortured once the hype dies down, hope she paces herself now that she truly is alone, reaching out to local Muslim/Arab communities will bring her a sense of familiarity and comfort, and I'm sure there's cultural celebrations like Eid she'd love to be included in even if she's not a Muslim anymore.
KSA treatment of women and practice of Islam is worrying, any news that shines a spotlight on these issues is welcomed, well done for your part Ms Mohammed.
But I do feel she's going to be extremely tortured once the hype dies down, hope she paces herself now that she truly is alone, reaching out to local Muslim/Arab communities will bring her a sense of familiarity and comfort, and I'm sure there's cultural celebrations like Eid she'd love to be included in even if she's not a Muslim anymore.
KSA treatment of women and practice of Islam is worrying, any news that shines a spotlight on these issues is welcomed, well done for your part Ms Mohammed.
Why do you give a fuck, this is really what you took away from reading all of this?
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory Commentary; dismissing concerns surrounding domestic abuse. History of severe infractions.
Gotta love the assumptions here. I've never read a comic, and hate war films. You have absolutely no idea what my life experiences are and what colors my perspective and context. Not sure how abandoning your family and running away to another country is "standing up to everyday injustice", but fine. Again, I wish this girl well, but I should be able to see her as something other than a "hero" without being seen as having malicious intent, as if viewing her as a hero is the only possible perspective one can have.There more than one way to assess certain actions, and more than one perspective can be reasonable. I mean, she abandoned her family and rejected all of Islam, so let's not pretend it's only the societal/cultural oppressive society in SA that she had a problem with. Not sure what's wrong with pointing that out.
"Why do you give a fuck, this is really what you took away from reading all of this?"
Why is everyone else in this thread allowed to give a fuck by commenting, and I'm not? Why are you so offended by the fact that I have a slightly different take? Not even sure what your comment means.
I wish her well, but don't view her as anything close to a hero. I doubt this is some kind of radical opinion.
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Her life will remain just as in danger the moment she falls out of the public eye. If Russia can get people, so can well financed Saudi's. Hopefully, that won't be the case, but let's not pretend she won't be living her life as a Canadian looking over her shoulder.
Fucking barbarians. I can't wait for every drop of oil to run out of that shithole, so that the royal family and those Al Ash-Seikh bastards get turned on when they can't bribe the tribes to maintain their dominance.
I mean, her family threatened to kill her for leaving her religion and she is well within her rights to reject a theology that she finds oppressive and that takes away her basic human rights. I don't see a problem with this?
They bash him for being a former teacher as well. These people aren't exactly bright.
Oh my god, starting to cry reading this. But thank you for sharing, I haven't heard of her before.
What a bizarre take. The girl ran for her life. Her family abandoned her first when they threatened to kill her just because she wanted to be free to live life how she chose to, and not relegated to being a 2nd class citizen-slave and forced into a belief she did not want to follow. The only way I can interpret your reaction is that you don't mind how SA and other similar nations treats their women like this and that holds religion over basic rights. smh.
You don't think her achieving freedom through social media while men are barging into wherever she is to kidnap her and kill her as heroic? She wasn't just escaping her culture, but by her own words, an abusive family who not only disowned her but wanted to murder her. Yes we are coming to conclusive statements about the family because they have chosen not to respond to the allegations so we are just believing the woman here. This is heroic because she succeeded while previous cases like this turned out to fail because authorities gave into Saudi pressure and handed other victims over.
I get your concern that far right figures might use her as a pawn like Ayaan Hirsi Ali but that is at the bottom of the tent pole of concerns and involves her freedom to choose who she associates herself with, not us men trying to be guardians over her.
she would have been sentenced to death if she stayed in her home country. she basically had to sacrifice her old life and her entire family to set an example. theres a very good chance that she will be targeted in the future to be made an example of, by either some government stooge or religious crazy.
As an Arab, I can tell you there is a consistent pattern of abused, silenced and battered women in our societies. There are very few protections and rights for women. We have laws that enable rapists to marry their victims to avoid sentence for example. I'm not saying that the West doesn't indulge in that behavior, but it IS founded in reality. Again, that doesn't mean ALL women are subject to this, but if you are? Pretty much accept your fate or do like this woman did.
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This whole thing about her wanting " a different lifestyle" since when has wanting to not be murdered by your family a lifestyle?
You need to gain some perspective dude because I don't know if you're serious or just willfully trolling
That's... actually a good plot for a John-Wick-successor movie.
I am happy for her and I wish her the best. Fuck her family.
That said, I feel it would be wiser for her to stop appearing in public, this kind of stuff will just make her more of a target and the Saudi's will only get angrier because of how horrible the wahabi teaching is. I fear she might be a target once things calm down.
Now don't take me wrong, I am happy she is talking about her experience and people are celebrating her but this only makes her a bigger target. Some asshole will surely try to murder her to satisfy every asshole like him and to become a "martyr" (yes the Wahabi/Salafi sect is that fucked up).
That said, I feel it would be wiser for her to stop appearing in public, this kind of stuff will just make her more of a target and the Saudi's will only get angrier because of how horrible the wahabi teaching is. I fear she might be a target once things calm down.
Now don't take me wrong, I am happy she is talking about her experience and people are celebrating her but this only makes her a bigger target. Some asshole will surely try to murder her to satisfy every asshole like him and to become a "martyr" (yes the Wahabi/Salafi sect is that fucked up).
Country which let schoolgirls burn to death because of religious police.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...rls-die-as-zealots-drive-them-into-blaze.html