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Oct 25, 2017
5,143
I'll pay the extra money, both in the obvious real costs of more hardware and the hidden costs (some of which you may have imagined), if it means my console has all of the essential features built in and doesn't need a Frankenstein prosthetic to have the same functionality as it's always had.
 

m4st4

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,505
But why? No, I'm sorry, even if I finally prefer digital for games this season, I love my console to have a convenient 4K able disc drive for my movie collection thankuverymuch.
 

CONCHOBAR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,915
Disagree. Once the disc drive is made optional in this manner, physical copies will disappear. Whether you love discs or despise them, having them available is incredibly important for consumer rights and preservation.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,697
You're totally right. Optical media support should follow the laptop path: external dongle available for those who want legacy ports.
 

Delio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,474
Would be something to buy a dongle add on for these expensive consoles. Also I could see Nintendo holding on on digital for a bit i9f next gen does go all in on digital. Would Nintendo just take all that retail space Sony and MS are giving up or would they have download cards? I dunno would be something.
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,926
If the Series X were the exact same spec wise but without a disk drive, it would still be $499.

I do hope the Series X mid gen upgrade is digital only. Xbox as a ecosystem is already massively digital and I wouldn't be surprised if the average Series X owner was +75% digital in 2023.

For one, it would cut down on the size since they don't have to account for a disk drive. Look how slim the S is. The X would be more slab like than a fridge.

Two, they could spend the cost of the drive on increased specs or even enhanced thermals because they don't have to account for discs.

Having an external hub for physical media would be ideal in this case since every digital unit would be able to use it. Series S and X.
 

Zoid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,335
I'm saying this as someone who has gone all digital for 2 generations now.

If Sony had decided to make the PS5 digital version the only version, they would have priced it at $500.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
8,101
California
At what point in the market does one say, yep, were not printing discs anymore? When it is 80% digital? 90%?

Curious to see what the market split is now that 2021 is over. Probably up to or around 65% digital. Give it a few more years and probably will reach 70%.
Two more console generations and I think it's a done deal IMO. You will have the vocal minority making a shit ton of noise about it. MSFT and Sony will have to decide in unison because without that, the blowback will be severe. Nintendo will continue to do their own thing.
 
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NeoKnight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
652
I agree with the OP idea here. Making both a digital and a disc version of the consoles is kinda only done to satisfy the disc market, otherwise both MS and Sony would have opted for digital only.

Laptops/Desktops have been doing this for years now. Its literaly difficult to find a computer that has a disc drive anymore. Music and movie industries are also mainly digital now, so games will follow. Consoles will go this way, its inevitable, OP is just ahead of the curve. Making a disc drive accessory will be the (eventual) solution for those that still want discs alive.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I mean if they said "you can buy any third party disc drive". How many times don't driver signature failures occur when buying hardware that "should work".

I'm not talking about a proprietary disc drive option.

Okay but this is the argument we should have with OP. OP has made a very clear goal, and maybe they have an issue with the execution. So you quibble that point and say no, it'd need to probably be proprietary, or maybe only allow for certain licensed ones.

That's what's going to happen with Microsoft's SSDs iirc. Currently Seagate has it out the gate, but it sounds like other companies will be making SSDs for series consoles too.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I think the premises is faulty assuming consoles would sell at $400 to start with because of no disc drive. The Disc Drive isn't what is keeping the machines at $500. Every component in these consoles are carefully analyzed based on use and cost, They wouldn't go any lower. The current digital model for PS5D works is because it's low volume, launch buyers spend more and it gives them an marketing price tag of $400, PS5 Disc, the largest volume of PS5 is already no longer selling at a loss that's how their business model works. In a scenario you thought of, what you're more likely to see are machines that cost $499 but then sell a disc drive for even more which in that case, how is it more options and freedom of choice than what it is now? Physical sales of PS5 for example still account for 50% so why bother removing a disc drive that costs not as much to overall BOM of the machines but worsens huge portion of consumers who enjoy physical costs extra.

I think this just really depends. I absolutely see what you're saying, but I don't think it's taken for granted.

I actually fully expect non disk consoles next generation for $500. Increase in costs and things like that will make that happen. I think that is going to happen regardless of a disk drive. Making a $550 SKU that includes a disk drive and three months of whatever premium service makes a lot of sense.

I can totally see it going how you're saying, but I don't think that's taken for granted.

This is why it's like the limited edition games issue. When whatever some of the games that were the targets of that ire added back in the games, the bundles...went up in price. And it ignored that so many games already do that. Destiny has always had four SKUs of their LEs. One without the game and three with a game, one for each platform. And the non game one is proportionally cheaper. So the only thing that would have been happening is just eliminate those pointless SKUs. Because guess which sold out immediately each time? The one without a game attached to it, because it let people buy the game digitally.

So I don't think it's completely a given that it will definitely be worse value.

I would bet money that had they done this from the start of the gen, the PS5 would not cost 400$. It would cost 450$ or something, with an optional disc drive for 50$. The margins on that digital edition are not good.

That's totally fair. I just don't really think it'll be worse.

I don't expect any iteration of a $400 console next generation period though. Unless it's like a Series S situation.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
When I finally do get a PS5 it'll be one with a disc drive, however, I don't totally hate the idea of an external drive. It is a point of failure and being able to replace the drive without having to get parts from random internet sites and opening up the console to fix it would have some value. That said, perhaps keeping current generation consoles is somewhat meaningless compared to past consoles if they really stick with backwards compatibility from here on out. Outside of emulation a working Dreamcast was the only way to play a Dreamcast game or a Super Nintendo was the only way to play a Super Nintendo game, but if a PlayStation 7 plays PlayStation 5 games just fine keeping that PS 5 going indefinitely becomes a little less important outside of collectors who actually value having it just to have it.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
"I"M NOT UNHINGED!!!" insists the guy acting completely unhinged. Wow.

Why would I theoretically (it wouldn't actually be priced this way in reality) want to pay less money to buy a disc drive attachment when it can just be seamlessly integrated into my console, while simultaneously driving down the size of the consumer market for discs - something I still actively want to buy? People aren't giving it a serious response because it isn't an idea worthy of one. Get a grip.

No, you're just being an ass.

There are plenty of reasons why that'd be a nice thing, but you're clearly not interested in hearing them. Because I have already covered a few, but you've made it obvious you aren't reading a single bit of what I'm actually saying because you already decided, as I said, that I was being insane. Your assumption is what you wanted it to be. You just want to be an ass, so go off.

There's nothing unhinged about making an argument like I'm doing lol. You just sound insecure. Make this super hasty nonargument to try and shut up any disagreement. Pathetic lol.

I genuinely can't believe someone would try to justify acting like you are acting right now. You are being an ass for no reason.
 

EllipsisBreak

One Winged Slayer
Member
Aug 6, 2019
2,167
If the disc drive wasn't a standard part of the console, the majority of players by far wouldn't have one. Physical distribution would be sidelined and phased out by sheer necessity. This would be a very bad thing, not just because physical copies have a lot of benefits to us, but also because large parts of the industry lean on it. We should not forget that physical retail shelves are a massive discoverability feature, constantly bringing in customers who wouldn't otherwise be engaged in all this. Companies aren't going to want to give that up.
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,024
This is just stupid at this point. Both companies offer a cheaper system without a disc drive, and it takes up a huge amount of space inside the consoles. I know the companies make more money long term on the digital only systems, but in the Series X case MS is forcing people to always have the option to buy a disc if they want the high end system.

Just sell it externally, or allow people to plug in an external Blu Ray drive, and let them pay then for the licensing needed to have the app on the system. It be a win for everyone

-All customers will be incentivized to buy digital
-All players can play and use discs, if they want
-Cost of system will go down
-Consoles are smaller and easier to ship
-Inventory is easier to manage
-Drive speed no longer matters as it is only used to install or copy data to the system
-DRM would be an issue, but surely that can be worked around.

Edit: So to clarify, I am not saying no more discs for systems, just sell 1 model of each system, without a drive, and have either 3rd party support or first party support for external hardware to use a disc if you want.

Basically, just sell the PS5 Digital for $400, the Series X for $400 with no disc driver, and the Series S for $300. Then sell a $100 disc drive for each system (unless third party drives for cheaper are allowed to be used). The consumer pays the same amount, no one is locked into not being able to use discs because they only had a certain system available when they bought or received it as a gift, and if a disc drive breaks, you don't have a busted console that needs to be repaired.
Doesn't make much sense at all.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,064
No, you're just being an ass.

There are plenty of reasons why that'd be a nice thing, but you're clearly not interested in hearing them. Because I have already covered a few, but you've made it obvious you aren't reading a single bit of what I'm actually saying because you already decided, as I said, that I was being insane. Your assumption is what you wanted it to be. You just want to be an ass, so go off.

There's nothing unhinged about making an argument like I'm doing lol. You just sound insecure. Make this super hasty nonargument to try and shut up any disagreement. Pathetic lol.

I genuinely can't believe someone would try to justify acting like you are acting right now. You are being an ass for no reason.

Your post yesterday immediately elicited a number of "WTF" responses from other posters because of how ridiculously over the top it was. It was a bad idea in the OP, it's still a bad idea after your unhinged rant, and I - along with many others - told you exactly why it's a bad idea.
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,940
That sounds like it would take up more space.

This reeks of trying to find a solution to a non-problem.
 

blame space

Resettlement Advisor
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,420
"choice" people would buy all kinds of things that are objectively worse given the choice.

why are you so anti-disc drive? what do they add that you're so vehemently against?
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,507
"choice" people would buy all kinds of things that are objectively worse given the choice.

why are you so anti-disc drive? what do they add that you're so vehemently against?

I don't hate disc drives. I just think it's better for the planet if the mainstream moves on. It's, in my opinion, a useless waste of plastics.

Obviously for the collector the option for physical should remain. Those prices will go up, but it'll also mean having a collection is actually worth something.

I'm pro collectors editions and limited runs. I'm anti mainstream use of plastics which do not add much value.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
I'll never understand consumers asking for less and really believing that with less options they will be rewarded to pay less lol
When we get to the point where Sony/MS/Nintendo are confortable enough to only sell digital consoles you can be sure they will still charge you exactly the same price they would if they had to add a disc drive.
On top of that after getting a PS5 with a disc drive, after buying literally only 3 physical games during the whole last gen, for this gen I realized how important options are. Like I said in a period of almost 8 years I only bought 3 physical games ( GTS, Fallout 4 and Doom ), meanwhile since I got my PS5, I havent completed 6 months with yet, I already bought 6 physical games and have Horizon Forbidden West pre ordered because of better deals and already covered up the difference between the disc and discless model.
As a consumer you should never ask for less, NEVER !
Especially when we are talking about platforms with walled gardens storefronts, like consoles.

What's bizarre is people dog piling for what would functionally be a better system than we have now.


PS5 disk is $100 more than PS5 digital. But if they sold a disk drive, there is absolutely no way they would sell it for $100. Absolutely no way. You'd be looking at $60, maybe $70, maybe $80 if they really wanted to push it. So it would be better for consumers to pay $400 + whatever the disk drive cost. That is just objectively better. It also means people who didnt' think they'd want physical and regret it have an easy solution. There is zero downside do it. So acting like "wow lol OP is stupid for suggesting this what an awful idea" is really fucking weird.


What's even more unhinged is some of the bizarre reasons to justify the arguments that OP is an idiot. Stuff like suggesting that having something external makes it more likely to break. Like what? When has that ever been true? Have people here ever ACTUALLY had an external drive? I've had like three and they all still work just fine except one that got smashed because my brother carried it around with him.


Like literally what is happening here is this weird monkey brain "wait, I have to buy TWO things? That's TERRIBLE" and just ignoring that you'd probably pay LESS total for more freedom. Maybe it doesn't look as pretty but when do you ever actually move your console where having two items to move would actually be an issue. You could even hide the console and only have the drive on display for an even tidier look. Even if you disagree with that that's entirely a subjective matter of taste. A far cry from oh my OP is such an insane, bold idiot for suggesting this horrible idea.


Like everyone is acting like OP is SUCH AN IDIOT and the reasons they are saying so are either reasons for why we shouldn't get rid of disks (which is utterly bizarre since that is in no way being proposed), or they are completely baseless (like suggesting that these new disk drives would be more likely to break, which is unfounded).


Really fucking weird thread. But kind of expected.


This is like when people got mad at Limited Editions of games not having the game included, when that literally is better for everyone involved. If you lop off the price of the game and instead let people buy it digital but still get the physical goodies, or let people decide to go physical if they want, it just means fewer SKUs which actually would lower the price even more. But everyone goes monkey brain "oh no i buy two thing?" and acts like it is just the stupidest suggestion ever. Just utter completely lacks of logic on such a shocking level. I can't believe people are actually that fucking stupid.

Im sorry but you are really, really inocent if you really think that in a world where the only PS5 available is the Digital one that :
1) Sony would still charge only USD400 for it.
2) Sony would charge a fair price for a disc drive.
If PS5D was the only PS5 available it would cost you the same USD500, Sony would charge you USD100 for a disc drive and possibly physical games would have an extra fee on top of them.
Remember when digital games were supposed to cost less because there was no middleman, logistics and physical materials involved on it ?
 
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Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,094
UK
I like the idea as long as I can install the game and not have to use the disc every time to play it. Having an external disc drive hanging around out all the time would be untidy to me and worse than an internal drive. When I get CDs I plug in my DVD drive to the laptop to rip them to lossless and then I put the CDs and the disc drive away and I'm good. A similar situation for games sounds great to me.
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
"If console makers found a way to save money, they would surely pass the savings on to me!"

Pretty much. You have to really be naive to think digital benefits the consumer. Look at people selling their 30 year old physical games for thousands of dollars.

That's the kind of wealth you leave on the table. Digital is for people who don't really care much about video games or their history or their preservation.

But I know this fight is lost now. I've been yelling at the clouds about console digital for over a decade.
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,942
Sony would need to add more USB ports on the front of the thing. I'm already having to juggle a keyboard & charge cable, adding a disc drive to the lineup would be annoying.
 

HeWhoWalks

Member
Jan 17, 2018
2,522
I think about my Games for Windows LIVE purchases I can no longer download because it was shutdown and Microsoft refuses to fix the very well documented issue. All of those games are now lost, which could happen again, and that is scary.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,414
That's the kind of wealth you leave on the table. Digital is for people who don't really care much about video games or their history or their preservation.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Digital emulation and backups will out live every physical collection in existence. It's preservation with accessibility. The price of physical media shoots up the second it stops being produced, nevermind actually engaging with that prized collection only serves to devalue it. The people garnering those crazy headlines are selling pristine, professionally graded items that have never been played - clearly what true gaming is all about, baybee.
 

Nif

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,716
Surprised so many people are against decoupling one of the most failure-prone part of the consoles so it's easier to replace in the future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,214
So let me get this straight:

People believe that in a world without mandatory disc drives that the digital system are going to be cheaper.
People believe that in a world without physical media that digital games are going to be cheaper.
People believe that Sony/MS would price the optical drive at $50.

Am I understanding this right, and if so, why in the world do you think that?
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,414
Sony and Nintendo have proactively nixxed competition in the digital space by freezing out third party sellers through crumby restrictions, so there will never be meaningful digital savings beyond carefully timed & controlled sales on their own first party storefronts. Physical is the only real recourse for people in those ecosystems. Even as someone who's 100% digital, I wouldn't want physical to go away on those platforms, as it would only lead to higher overall prices on digital going forward.

Xbox, and PC especially do however have thriving third party digital markets that offer constant savings. Nevermind they both give you the freedom to emulate your library across multiple platforms.
 

Stimpack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
591
This is the kind of thinking that leads to people in high up positions being ridiculed and fired.
 

Somniac

Banned
Oct 10, 2021
195
I never thought I'd hear someone rallying for a more anti-consumer console setup on this forum of all places. Kinda nutty
 

jesterkap2

Member
Oct 28, 2017
537
As someone who doesn't use the disc drive in my PS5 or Series X and doesn't have one on my PC at all.. nah. This isn't it.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,692
Surprised so many people are against decoupling one of the most failure-prone part of the consoles so it's easier to replace in the future.

Its fucking nuts. The number of people that jump to "no drive = bad" out of some kind of weird reactionary perspective is mindboggling without even thinking of the possible benefits or broader implications.

The only real arguments against this that I can see are that the digital only base consoles would not be priced cheaper and/or the separation of the drive sets a precedent for eventual complete removal of physical media down the line. But taking the the OP as a given idk how people would be so radically against this.

Like as a consumer surely you should want the ability to mix and match skus, want more interoperability, more modularity etc. right?

10 years down the road would you rather aftermarket drives be available or have to rely on sony or microsoft to still be repairing these old consoles?
 

Curufinwe

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,924
DE
The disc drive on all of my consoles still work.

PS2 - 2003
GC - 2005
Xbox - 2006
Wii - 2008
Xbox 360 - 2009
WiiU - 2013
PS4 - 2014
Xbox One X - 2017
Xbox Series X - 2022
 

Somniac

Banned
Oct 10, 2021
195
On a forum where at least half the users don't seem to understand what anti-consumer actually means and throw it around as a buzzword?
You're right, I totally want to advocate for an even faster total removal of physical media and give console manufactures further monopoly over the games released for their respective systems, that's definitely in my interest and in no way anti-consumer.
Surprised so many people are against decoupling one of the most failure-prone part of the consoles so it's easier to replace in the future.
That's not really an issue anymore though, since discs are used for little more than validating licenses after the installation period disc drives go through less wear and tear than ever before and its not even a close comparison. Not to mention how much better disc drives have been able to become in a post-blu ray world. They're also some of the easiest and cheapest parts to replace and the only benefit you get here is that you get to do it in fewer steps.
 

Adathir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
772
I like the idea of making official external drives for the consoles as it lets digital owners use discs or it can alleviate the issue of broken ones. I'm sure most people here are for that option as well they just don't want to see the choice of owning a physical media based console removed at this point.

As long as there is an option I will always buy the model of a console that has an internal optical drive. Besides not really buying any digital games I really don't want to have an extra piece of hardware on my shelf so that I can play 4k blurays as well.

I could be crazy but I swear I remember reading how digital games would actually be cheaper than physical because it removed the need for manufacturing goods. Yet here we are still paying full price for games (not counting sales).
 

Fubbelub

Member
Jul 25, 2021
38
Its fucking nuts. The number of people that jump to "no drive = bad" out of some kind of weird reactionary perspective is mindboggling without even thinking of the possible benefits or broader implications.

The only real arguments against this that I can see are that the digital only base consoles would not be priced cheaper and/or the separation of the drive sets a precedent for eventual complete removal of physical media down the line. But taking the the OP as a given idk how people would be so radically against this.

Like as a consumer surely you should want the ability to mix and match skus, want more interoperability, more modularity etc. right?

10 years down the road would you rather aftermarket drives be available or have to rely on sony or microsoft to still be repairing these old consoles?
The problem with that taking the op as given is that it won't happen. The only situation where all console SKUs would ship without drives and drives were an optional accessory is if the manufactures considered disks legacy, and thus were on the verge of phasing them out. This is what people react to, they don't want an all digital future, because it would leave Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft free to dictate high prices for games and no second hand market.

Personally it would probably mean I would no longer buy consoles (which is fine, I don't particularly need them now that everything is coming to PC anyway), but I think for others it would just mean a massive downgrade in the enjoyment they get out of their hardware.

And just in case someone feel the need to point out that PC is all digital, the obvious difference is that it's an open platform with competition. (hint, it's not the physical disks I'm attached to, rather the benefits that comes with them).
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,072
The disc drive on all of my consoles still work.

PS2 - 2003
GC - 2005
Xbox - 2006
Wii - 2008
Xbox 360 - 2009
WiiU - 2013
PS4 - 2014
Xbox One X - 2017
Xbox Series X - 2022
You're lucky then. I have had a Sega Saturn, PlayStation 2, and Nintendo Wii all with dead disc drives, and I'm sure more will kick the bucket in years to come. Fortunately, ODE solutions exist for all these systems, so it isn't an issue in my case.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,041
Just give us a DE subsidized by the respective store monopolies.

Problem is this would eventually kill physical media anyway.

I'm ready to let that go though. My general feeling is that this happened to music and IMO we came out okay.

The only problem with this is the AppStore monopoly. There needs to be some option to use stuff if shit goes down. Disks are already quite meaningless to be honest.
 

Piggus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,718
Oregon
I do wish Sony had released an external drive for the disc-less PS5 just because it's a better looking system than the disc version IMO, but I don't think this would have gone down very well with the physical media crowd had they made it the only option. That's now an in-demand accessory you'd have to get for an already in-demand console. I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they did this with some future "slim" PS5 model though as more and more people buy digitally.

In fact this would make a lot of sense for future Xbox SX/SS models as well. At a certain point it won't be worth including the drive.