You responded before my edit. But my other point was basically: how about we win first and then complain about how republicans need to be a stronger party. But at any rate should this really be coming from the democratic leadership?
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Nancy Pelosi: "The country needs a strong Republican party. It's done so much for our country."
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
The people she upset always love playing victim or turning themselves in to one. She never should've said it and played them better.
Depress their vote or lie is a better strategy than inciting. Never saying it was an option too. You can never call these ego monsters out its the one thing you're not allowed to do.
Imagine getting upset at a party leader for basically saying we need a democracy.
Regardless of one's political opinions, the US has a two party system and yes a functioning GOP is important. Otherwise you are ditching a wannabe autocrat for an actual autocracy
Regardless of one's political opinions, the US has a two party system and yes a functioning GOP is important. Otherwise you are ditching a wannabe autocrat for an actual autocracy
Probably, since the Republican leadership seems to think things are just dandy. Someone has to be putting out to in the open the idea that the Republicans, as a party, have lost their way, and it's something that isn't discussed enough, to be honest.
It's extremely hard to be adversarial from the Democratic side. We're not united by race or religion or geography, we have broad and complex policy goals, and there's division between the social and economic wings of the party. It's difficult to create pithy "us vs them" rhetoric when "us" is so complex, and there are likely several of "them" in your immediate family (if you're a white Dem, anyway).
Whereas Republicans can just be white supremacists. That's simple and clear, and lends itself to creating division and otherizing/demonizing your opponent.
Yeah, I think this is a very fair point and a great way of putting it, as well as a reason why, regardless of that she may be attempting to do, may not be politically savvy. At least reduce it to "conservatives" or "a conservative party" having a voice in American democracy.
I think that's arguably a worse message. America doesn't need a conservative party, IMO. We need a moderate and a progressive party, and for what we now consider conservatism to die off.
Leadership of the Democratic Party should not be singing the praises of a party that, well before Trump, wants to take peoples healthcare away, is full of Racists, steals from the poor to give to the rich, leads us into unjust wars. "Done so much for our country my ass". And people wonder why progressives don't gladly support these idiots. It's totally different than acknowledging that other parties shouls exist. She isnt playing games, she wants a strong republican party so that she has an excuse to do nothing while in power while paying lip service to her base. People need to wake up to the fact thay rich democrats have much more in common with rich republicans than they do the Democratic base, and that they care more about maintaining that than they do anything else.
What your country needs is more than just a binary choice, too.
These things are relative, so any such moderate party would just be a conservative party for that context.
Yes like let's be less abstract about republicans and especially in the states they actually win. It's basically a racist, bigoted party - occasionally dabbling in tax cuts and dregulation. And do I want that party to be stronger? Not particularly. Especially since their victories mostly come from undemocratic institutions (i.e winning the senate while representing less people than democrats, winning the presidency with less votes). (1) It's an awful fucking party and (2) there are much more serious impediments to our well-being as a democracy than not having enough enough competition from republicans. What an insane thought. How about we fix the electoral college first, add a few states, pack the courts.... then complain about how weak republicans are.
Like usual, Pelosi is right, and I also think that this is a politically cogent statement. The Republican party is a cult, it's not a political party.
Political leaders shouldn't want the dissolution of their opposition parties, and so she's right to wish for some sort of restoration of a Republican party that isn't solely a political cult for Donald Trump.
You can draw a contrast between the final 18 months of the Bush administration and the Trump administration. In 2006, Democrats swept Republicans out of the House and won the senate. The response to that from Republicans was basically to recognize that the Bush Administration was a failed presidency, and it's time to move on. Bush's approval rating plummetted in those final 12-18 months of his administration, he had no support from the left, center, or right, enough so that when he had a SCOTUS vacancy his own party resoundingly rejected his first choice to fill the spot. It forced Bush into a compromise position with the Democratic congress, and after 2006, Bush signed Democratic-led legislation. By 2008, Bush was persona non-grata for his party. The GOP nominee was Bush's primary opponent from 2000 and one of his chief opponents within the Republican party.
When Republicans got crushed in the House in 2018, it's the opposite of 2006. Instead of realizing that the will of the American people was against Trumpism, they doubled down. Instead of standing up to the cult, they joined the cult. In 2020, the Republican Party didn't have a platform at their convention. As far as I can tell this is the first time that a major party did not put forward a platform of things that they stand for ... ever ... in American politics. The GOP stands for nothing but Donald Trump, a reality TV gameshow host and demagoguing wanna-be dictator.
This week the Republican governor of Massachusetts and the Republican president got into a tiff. Baker, MA, made a factual statement about the security of mail in ballots and protecting election integrity. It was a common sense, normal statement that any governor should make. This, of course, incensed Trump and he took to Twitter to attack Baker, call him a RINO, and attack election integrity with lies (Trump's tweet would be flagged by twitter for spreading misinformation). This shouldn't surprise anybody. Even in Massachusetts, Baker has a higher approval rating among Democrats than he does among Republicans. This is a cult. The national Republican party should look at Republican governors like Charlie Baker and Larry Hogan, governor of Maryland, and instead of rejecting them as "fake Republicans" or what have you, say, "Ok, well what are these guys doing right that they're able to command 70% approval ratings in such Democratic leaning states?" Instead, they look at 70% approval rating in democratic leaning states and think, there must be something broken with these governors, something wrong, instead of, holy shit, this is how you should govern. That is a political cult.
Pelosi is right: America is currently a two party system and it is much healthier for America if that other party takes back their party from being a cult and turns it into a functioning political party. Right now, the GOP is just a personality cult of the president, a person who has no attachment to reality, who lies with complete impunity, who is incapable of telling the truth, and because of that under his lack of leadership and the spinelessness with which his party members -- cult acolytes -- have been unable to check his power, 200,000+ Americans are dead, millions more are sick, we have the worst economy since 1929, and the country is spilling into social and civil unrest while the president is trying to stoke a race war because he thinks Americans killing each other is good for him politically. This is a 5 minute interview where she codemns Trump and the Republican party and calls them a cult and says they have to reform their party instead of being a cult.
If your take from that is "PELOSI IS GARBAGE HUMAN WE NEED TO KICK HER OUT OF THE HOUSE" then you're just the type of person that would fit perfectly into a cult of your own.
Political leaders shouldn't want the dissolution of their opposition parties, and so she's right to wish for some sort of restoration of a Republican party that isn't solely a political cult for Donald Trump.
You can draw a contrast between the final 18 months of the Bush administration and the Trump administration. In 2006, Democrats swept Republicans out of the House and won the senate. The response to that from Republicans was basically to recognize that the Bush Administration was a failed presidency, and it's time to move on. Bush's approval rating plummetted in those final 12-18 months of his administration, he had no support from the left, center, or right, enough so that when he had a SCOTUS vacancy his own party resoundingly rejected his first choice to fill the spot. It forced Bush into a compromise position with the Democratic congress, and after 2006, Bush signed Democratic-led legislation. By 2008, Bush was persona non-grata for his party. The GOP nominee was Bush's primary opponent from 2000 and one of his chief opponents within the Republican party.
When Republicans got crushed in the House in 2018, it's the opposite of 2006. Instead of realizing that the will of the American people was against Trumpism, they doubled down. Instead of standing up to the cult, they joined the cult. In 2020, the Republican Party didn't have a platform at their convention. As far as I can tell this is the first time that a major party did not put forward a platform of things that they stand for ... ever ... in American politics. The GOP stands for nothing but Donald Trump, a reality TV gameshow host and demagoguing wanna-be dictator.
This week the Republican governor of Massachusetts and the Republican president got into a tiff. Baker, MA, made a factual statement about the security of mail in ballots and protecting election integrity. It was a common sense, normal statement that any governor should make. This, of course, incensed Trump and he took to Twitter to attack Baker, call him a RINO, and attack election integrity with lies (Trump's tweet would be flagged by twitter for spreading misinformation). This shouldn't surprise anybody. Even in Massachusetts, Baker has a higher approval rating among Democrats than he does among Republicans. This is a cult. The national Republican party should look at Republican governors like Charlie Baker and Larry Hogan, governor of Maryland, and instead of rejecting them as "fake Republicans" or what have you, say, "Ok, well what are these guys doing right that they're able to command 70% approval ratings in such Democratic leaning states?" Instead, they look at 70% approval rating in democratic leaning states and think, there must be something broken with these governors, something wrong, instead of, holy shit, this is how you should govern. That is a political cult.
Pelosi is right: America is currently a two party system and it is much healthier for America if that other party takes back their party from being a cult and turns it into a functioning political party. Right now, the GOP is just a personality cult of the president, a person who has no attachment to reality, who lies with complete impunity, who is incapable of telling the truth, and because of that under his lack of leadership and the spinelessness with which his party members -- cult acolytes -- have been unable to check his power, 200,000+ Americans are dead, millions more are sick, we have the worst economy since 1929, and the country is spilling into social and civil unrest while the president is trying to stoke a race war because he thinks Americans killing each other is good for him politically. This is a 5 minute interview where she codemns Trump and the Republican party and calls them a cult and says they have to reform their party instead of being a cult.
If your take from that is "PELOSI IS GARBAGE HUMAN WE NEED TO KICK HER OUT OF THE HOUSE" then you're just the type of person that would fit perfectly into a cult of your own.
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Literally the only reason for their success is in reaction to the fallout of Trump's election, which Pelosi and co. are directly accountable for. Aside from that they have achieved nothing while the Republican party advances their policy agenda to the hilt, which of course the Democrats will never meaningfully row back on because "how are ya gonna get joe manchin to vote for it???"
In 2016 their attempts to court moderates failed, in 18/20 they only succeeded because your empire is visibly collapsing and even the rubes are starting to see the cracks forming. If you think this formula of allowing Republicans to repeatedly run the country into the ground and then win by default in the ensuing crisis (while doing nothing to address said crises) is going to end well then you are deluding yourself.
Wrong. The Republican party IS a political party whereas the Democratic party is not. Mitch McConnell has achieved the formation of a largely ideologically coherent right wing party. You can tell they are a functioning party because they actually fight with all the tools at their disposal to achieve their policy goals, which are largely in line with the goals of their base. The Democratic party has no ideological coherency, hence the completely intractable infighting. It is there to vacuum up votes from a) minorities that are essentially held hostage and even actively legislated against by the Democratic leadership while in power, and b) whites whose reasons for not voting Republican form a wide spectrum of conflicting viewpoints. That is not a coherent political party.
You know it would be possible to have two not shitty parties right? Instead of arguing over whether people deserve a living wage, we could be arguing over 20 an hour versus 18 an hour.
We also don't need the Democrats if they are going to consistently big up the Modern Confederates who strip us of rights and incite their followers to murder us in shootings
What in the fucking hell is wrong with these Democrats
Next time they can enjoy that all white voting base they want to court so much
Complete white fucking nonsense she's talking
What in the fucking hell is wrong with these Democrats
Next time they can enjoy that all white voting base they want to court so much
Complete white fucking nonsense she's talking
Every time with Pelosi on this forum. Democrats in general, if I'm being honest. People continue to show their asses on issues.
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Yes, though we're still very far from that.
Absolutely, though I suppose what I'm arguing is that we need to change the messaging, because what's considered "conservative" by Americans today amounts to the toxic ideology of Evangelical Christians desperate to eliminate the separation of Church and State coupled with the evil of white supremacy cultivated by the Southern Strategy.
I think the whole point of her statement was that the GOP shouldn't be a party of fascist white supremacy. She wasn't saying "The current GOP should be more powerful", she was saying that there should be a competent opposing party that isn't insane.
In a functioning two-party system, Pelosi herself would be the kind of person in charge of the GOP: an economic moderate with support for some social reform. A "let's basically maintain the status quo"-type. Instead, she's in the "progressive" party by default, because the alternative is signing up with the Nazi death cult.
The proof is honestly in this entire thread
look at these "liberals". Completely unable to think outside of a safe white perspective
What the fuck has the modern Republicans done to black people??....
how the fuck are you trying to build a party with our support but you gonna stay some garbage ass shit like that about the people trying to eradicate us politically
We as black people are so fucking done with all these selfish whites, this shit don't mean nothing then, this is a sport game with nerds getting excited over the tit for tat
Just completely forget who has real stake in this. Dems clearly only do this cuz our votes are essentially granted to them by birthright, obviously
Fuck supporting us, we owe them our votes anyway
You can have a democracy without parties or a politicial gangs. Parties are tribalistic to say the least and all they do is diminish individual representative power.
Fuck a thread, my dude. This whole damn board. Anytime someone brings up an issue with Biden or the Democratic Party and we get shouted. Never the right time and vote blue because of election time. Not opportune to call Democrats to the carpet for transgressions, and we are the most loyal voters.
Republicans have actively tried to make our lives miserable to outright trying to kill us for generations, and Democrats either provide tepid protections or bread crumbs after looking the other way. Pelosi is sometimes on the mark, but she's often a stupid relic of an era that needs to go. This forums response to Pelosi mocking AOC told me everything I needed to know about this board and it's view on race.
The US needs a true multiparty system with true democratic elections based solely on the people's vote. None of this EC or gerrymandering bullshit. Also need proper representation in Congress based on population. Then you can have whatever Nazi opposition party you want.
I don't really think her statement is that big of a deal - mostly because republicans already know where they stand on this issue. but until you solve the problem that republicans are able to win power in undemocratic ways, there is no way of making the party better. We might not get another Trump... but another Bush isn't much of an improvement. The problem of the gop is that they're able to get away with being white supremacist exactly because they don't have to respond to what a majority of Americans believe (white supremacy is one example - their economic policies are also extremely unpopular). Donald Trump is particularly bad, but the republicans have been insane for decades. She knows this. Dems and republicans are not playing on an even field - dems are handicapped at the electoral college level and in the senate... I don't like pretending that the problems with the gop could be resolved by removing a single bad apple.
I don't even think it is about race. Many people here have a reflexive response to any criticism of Democratic leadership. Their go-to is to belittle, condescend, and wag their finger at people for "not understanding politics." Doesn't matter what they are responding to or what Pelosi or Schumer or Biden or some other senior Democratic leader says. The first response is to always deflect and defend.
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We don't need Republicans but the Democrats do need opposition— in the form of a strong labor or socialist party.
The GOP doesn't have a reason to change because they cannot grow their "tent"without alienating their base. The incentives are perverse. So they continue to promote hate and fear of the other.
I don't think this would workout the way many anticipate. A split between the current Democratic Party will only strengthen whatever crazy GOP spin off party exists at the time.
I don't think this would workout the way many anticipate. A split between the current Democratic Party will only strengthen whatever crazy GOP spin off party exists at the time.
I'm sorry but I don't see the issue with this? Like another poster said, she sounds like she's concern trolling, and she's also saying that the Republican party rn is a fucking circus. The gov't functions better when one side isn't completely insane and amoral.
Democrats has done nothing for us other than help the rich literals.
" oh but they protect abortions and are against racism"
Congrats for supporting the bare minimum. Don't get me started with the demagoguery they use on Bernie.
" oh but they protect abortions and are against racism"
Congrats for supporting the bare minimum. Don't get me started with the demagoguery they use on Bernie.
Bipartisan systems are incredibly weak and fragile. The Republican party is what it is now because they know they do not represent the majority and so they'll do anything to have power.
But because you have only two parties, there's no way to stop who's in power, it's empirically a proto-dictatorship until the power shifts.
In a multi-party system the majority of people is always better represented.
But because you have only two parties, there's no way to stop who's in power, it's empirically a proto-dictatorship until the power shifts.
In a multi-party system the majority of people is always better represented.
in a 2 party system having one party fully facist and racist is real not good. But a strong conservative party isnt the worst idea, if only our progressive party was really on the left.
It's a bit like Trump supporters who vote for him because they think he is anti abortion and a man of God.
The problem is that America has never lived in a time where the conservative party wasn't trying to kill minorities.
I actually agree with you here about power, but being able to wield power effectively does not make them a party, it makes them more of a cult. Cults can still wield effective power over their acolytes.
Pelosi is the only high ranking Democrat in the party that comes close to wielding power and influence like Mitch McConnell has, she's the only one who can build a caucus like McConnell does in the senate, and she's the only one whose willing to go nuclear in a political battle.
Otherwise I completely disagree that the Democratic party has no ideological coherency especially if we're contrasting them to their opponents, the GOP. Like, it's unfathomably false to draw a comparison to the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and say that the one of them that has ideological coherency is the GOP, and not the Democratic party. The GOP doesn't have a party platform in 2020. They stand for nothing but Trumpism, which isn't conservatism. We have this nominal idea that the Republican party represents conservative values, or something, but it doesn't. The GOP is a radical cult, not a conservative ideological party. There is no ideological coherency to the GOP at all, they stand for nothing and the causes they promote tend to be the opposite of the policy that their voters want them to achieve.
Low taxes? Nope. Trump unilaterally passed one of the biggest tax increases of any president in the last 50 years, he just calls them "Tariffs." Tariffs on Mexico are actually taxes on American consumers. Tariffs on China are actually taxes on American consumers. Tariffs are taxes.
Law and Order? Nope. Trump acts extra-judiciously, he doesn't follow the law or the constitution. The Constitution is the highest legally binding document that we have in our system of government, it's the law with which all other laws in our system get their legitimacy. Trump, and his party, have no use for the constitution. For them, it's less than a handshake agreement.
Religious liberty? Nope. Trump wants to prevent people from migrating to this country based exclusively on their religion.
Freedom of speech? Nope. Trump sends shock troops into cities and towns to arrest people and detain people who are within their legal writes, established by the first amendment. Trump signs executive orders that try to control the type of speech that's allowed on social media platforms.
Freedom of the press? Nope. Trump wants to make it possible for him to sue and jail journalists who write critical articles about him.
Freedom to petition ... Freedom to assemble. Go down the list of our constitutional rights, Trump and the GOP have no interest in recognizing any of them. A political party cannot be the party of "Law and Order" if you don't recognize the legitimacy of our highest law.
Jobs and the economy? Nope. Trump is the worst president for jobs in American history, since the Dept. of Labor has kept track.
Small government? Hardly. There is nothing small about federal shock troops being sent into cities to fire grenades and projectiles on American citizens. That's like, the biggest expression of large government that you can have.
Foreign policy? There is no coherency to the Republican party on foreign policy, at all, none. The GOP is completely at odds with the president that they swear to defend at all costs on all of our foreign policy decisions over the last 4 years. Trump has no foreign policy either, his policy boils down to aiding countries and leaders who he thinks aids him personally, and spurning countries and leaders who he thinks can't personally benefit him. Which, incidentally, is why Trump cozies up to dictators and authoritarians. No sane government of the people would ever want to help Donald Trump personally enrich himself and his company, but dictators in Russia, North Korea, Turkey, Brazil, Hungary, and elsewhere, would love to help him do that because they can see how it can help them. Consider that in 2012, the GOP nominee ran on the idea that the US had to be tougher on Putin and Russia; it was Romney's cudgle that he used against Obama successfully, enough that Obama had to come out and say "Mitt, the cold war is over, the 80s calls and they want their foreign policy back." WIthin just a few years the GOP had abandoned that foreign policy position for one of aquiescing for and making excuses for Putin and Russia, while the Republican president of the United States is their biggest global cheerleader.
States rights? Hardly. Republicans acquiese to Trump trampling states rights whenever a state determines something that they don't like. States take in refugees from war zones? Trump sends in federal shock troops, threatens to cut funding. States teach a historically accurate representation of American history? Trump threatens to cut their education funding. And Republicans in government, who supposedly claim to believe in the ideology of states' rights, sit back and nod in agreement.
There is no ideological platform of the Republican party, both in practice -- they literally have no party platform in 2020, like they did not submit a platform at their convention this year -- and in essence, they don't pursue any cogent ideology.
There are two issues that GOP politicians are fairly consistent on. Guns and abortion. But guns and abortion aren't ... a political platform. They're two issues, and they're two issues that the GOP has basically flipped on over the last 50 years. They also happen to be two issues that are most at odds with the American people. Most Americans, by a large majority, feel that a woman should be able to get an abortion in America. Most Americans, by a large majority, feel that there should be common sense gun control. The GOP politicians who shape the party's ideology on abortion and guns shape a policy that is antithetical to these positions. And also it's worth noting that like, these two issues -- guns and abortion -- seem like they should be mutually exclusive to one another. If you believe in an essential right to life, that all life is so precious that it supersedes the rights of women to control their own bodies, then how under God's heaven does it make any sense that all Americans also have an essential right to wield weapons whose primary purpose is to destroy life? That doesn't make any ideological sense, it's not coherent or consistent. The two issues that the Republican party is fairly consistent on -- top to bottom, local to federal -- happens to be two issues that should be mutually exclusive to one another.
Don't mistake power with ideology. Mitch McConnell is brilliant in his grasp of power. He wields the senate better than any politician since Lyndon Johnson, and probably better than any politician ever ... at least back to like 1860. This is something that the Democratic party lacks, especially in the senate. A problem with Democrats in the senate is that most influential Democratic senators treat the senate as a launching point for their presidential run. The overwhelming majority of Democratic presidential and vice presidential candidates since 1952 came from the senate. Today this has left a power vaccuum in the Democratic senate leadership and it's filled with nice-enough Democrats but none of them are willing to truly grasp power and use it effectively because they're all worried about how that's going to hurt them for their future presidential run. The lone exceptions here? The milquetoast leadership at the top of Democratic senate caucus -- Chuck Schumer, Patty Murray, Debbie Stabenow, and Dick Durbin. None of them grasp and maintain power like how McConnell does, and the Senators who seem to be willing to really work politics -- Liz Warren or Amy Klobuchar for instance? They don't see the senate as their highest achievable office.
To be an effective senate leader, you need to be from a state that's going to re-elect you every 6 years, that won't primary you, and you need to not be interested in higher office. You need to be willing to be the least popular politician in America. Mitch McConnell is one of the least liked politicians in America, but he doesn't get primaried and most Democrats don't stand a chance against him. Schumer fits the bill for generally not getting primaried and being in a safe state, and he has no aspirations for higher office -- the senate is his ceiling -- but he just lacks the ... guts ... to be a ruthless senate leader like McConnell does.
But don't mistake power for ideology. There is no coherent ideology throughout the Republican party, especially among new, fresh Republicans being elected to government. Republicans today are running for government under the ideological pretext of destroying government. They seem to believe that good government cannot exist, so they're running to destroy government not reform it. That's not a conservative political ideology, it's a radical nihilism.
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Okay, but it still comes back to "The opposition shouldn't be like that".
I think it is good for a healthy democracy if you have a competent opposition party who maybe differ slightly on certain political issues but still remain at its core a decent party that actually tries to do the best it can for the nation / people it serves, it should be that no matter who wins an elcetion the nation will be safe in their hands but regretfully that is not the case at the moment.
Yes, I wish the Republican party was slightly less horrible because even if they lose the Senate and White House this year (by no means a sure thing), they will be back in a position of power at some point. Whether it's 2 or 4 or 8 years from now. It's not like even if they get blown out of the water, that the party will be brought low and literally split the party. The GOP will still exist, it's just a question of whether they will keep going in the direction of Trump(s) and QAnon and Proud Boys, or will they move away from them (maybe embracing the Project Lincoln "hey, remember Reagan?" aesthetic). Even if it's the latter, it doesn't mean the party's good now, or that they'll start embracing liberal and/or progressive policies, but it's preferable to the former.
No, the party didn't magically turn bad when Trump got "elected." They paved the way for him. The party stood by as he walked away with their nomination. Ryan and McConnell were absolutely horrible when Obama was President. Their pretense of caring about the deficit/debt when a Democrat's in the white house magically went away once they had one of their own in the White House.
And listening to that clip, Pelosi is clear that the Republican party now isn't bad just because of Trump and his White House, it's the party (especially House and Senate Republicans) enabling him at every step. Yeah, we can criticize her depiction of the party's history (it's always been bad), but this reads a lot like her saying "Hey, Republicans who aren't fans of Trump, we don't want to destroy your party, I want you to have the party you used to know back again." It's maybe whitewashing the GOP of previous decades, but I don't think we're the intended audience for this particular message.
The Pelosi Defender has logged off. /s
But seriously, I get what the intent is here, even if we can absolutely criticize her depiction of what the party used to be.
No, the party didn't magically turn bad when Trump got "elected." They paved the way for him. The party stood by as he walked away with their nomination. Ryan and McConnell were absolutely horrible when Obama was President. Their pretense of caring about the deficit/debt when a Democrat's in the white house magically went away once they had one of their own in the White House.
And listening to that clip, Pelosi is clear that the Republican party now isn't bad just because of Trump and his White House, it's the party (especially House and Senate Republicans) enabling him at every step. Yeah, we can criticize her depiction of the party's history (it's always been bad), but this reads a lot like her saying "Hey, Republicans who aren't fans of Trump, we don't want to destroy your party, I want you to have the party you used to know back again." It's maybe whitewashing the GOP of previous decades, but I don't think we're the intended audience for this particular message.
The Pelosi Defender has logged off. /s
But seriously, I get what the intent is here, even if we can absolutely criticize her depiction of what the party used to be.
The Republican ideology is completely coherent. You're claiming hypocrisy because they only selectively practice what they preach, but this is entirely consistent with fascist ideology, which is completely oriented around dividing people into groups for whom rules do or don't apply selectively. This is also why claims of hypocrisy simply do not work, they neither perceive the problem nor find anything wrong with it when pointed out. This is coherent across both the party's base of voters, its representatives, and its donors, which is completely untrue of the Democratic party which is in constant conflicting triangulation between its donors, its base (such as it is), and its reps.
I think it is worth the risk. Also, maybe this is a bit unrealistic, a labor party would ideally attract non-voters and poor Republicans. Democrats and Republicans have not served the American worker well for decades.
You don't even need to bring race into it either. People are waxing nostalgic for a time when it was acceptable for the president to ignore a deadly virus as long as he's soft spoken and only gay people are dying.
To be fair, no one really likes defending Schumer at least.
You're responding to their stated ideology which has always been hypocritical nonsense. In practice, the GOP's job can be summed up as maintaining WASP dominance and making lots of money doing it. I'd say they're pretty good at it too.
What your country need is a deep, strong look at your class problems. Democracts in america still belong to an elite of white, privileged people that use the poor and downthrodden as "Free tickets" to power, eternally selling the promise of being their guardians against the evil republicans (which arent even people anymore, they are corporate tentacles).
I think the GOP's problem is that they have so much "core infrastructure" in place that reinforces the worst parts of their party. Fox News, Breitbart, and even the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board are now so ingrained in the party that there's no way for them to move left and re-invent itself.
Many of their local officials, which voters may know a lot better and more personally, now represent extreme views.
The only way the GOP's soul is saved is by repeated and consistent defeat in at every level of government.
That's it.
You have to send a message to the Republican base that their behavior and values are unacceptable and out-of-line with the American majority.
Many of their local officials, which voters may know a lot better and more personally, now represent extreme views.
The only way the GOP's soul is saved is by repeated and consistent defeat in at every level of government.
That's it.
You have to send a message to the Republican base that their behavior and values are unacceptable and out-of-line with the American majority.
Same with pretty much anywhere with a conservative party, really. It's just that the degrees of blatancy and success vary.
Then these same fools have the gall - THE FUCKING GALL - to weaponize anti-black oppression against disenchanted black voters to try and threaten them into voting. All the while showing their ass - like Malcolm X predicted - about their investment in enacting equality and legal protections for minorities is only so far as providing a moral ego massage over those who choose to be blatantly hateful.
And this is the political process we're supposed to have our faith in. Please.
She was alive back when Republicans were willing to work and compromise. Before the Gingriches and McConnells, before Reagan and Nixon, before they captured the gun and abortion votes. I'm 30 years old and all of that was before my time, but the kind of party she's speaking of doesn't exist anymore. I get why people are upset, because most of us weren't around for this. The only Republicans we know are the obstructionist, corporate opportunist bigots that are unwilling to work with anyone. But there was a time before when they'd actually sit down and work on legislation with other parties.
All that said, this is less about the Republicans and more about wooing moderates that haven't swung over to Biden yet. She knows how to play the game, and I'm surprised so many people continue to berate her for that fact. She has absolutely been a unifying force among progressive and moderate democrats, which is 100% necessary right now. If she can lure some more people away from current Republicans then all power to her. Stop assuming the worst with her.
All that said, this is less about the Republicans and more about wooing moderates that haven't swung over to Biden yet. She knows how to play the game, and I'm surprised so many people continue to berate her for that fact. She has absolutely been a unifying force among progressive and moderate democrats, which is 100% necessary right now. If she can lure some more people away from current Republicans then all power to her. Stop assuming the worst with her.