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megalowho

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,562
New York, NY
I only read the first page, but there's a LOT of bad takes on there. She's advocating for Republicans to take back their party from the Trump's, the McConnell's, the Graham's, the Cruz's, etc and actually be decent people again.

And it's a good message. Having a party you may not agree with on many things but can at least somewhat work with would be a huge benefit to this country.
Nancy Pelosi is the enemy and a punchline to Republicans, who are doing just fine politically. Leave this shit for the Lincoln Project, no one is buying her concern any more than Trump's towards the far left. And antagonizing her own caucus isn't unintentional either. I've been a fan of hers for most of her career but her political instincts have fallen off hard.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,862
I brought up her dismissiveness of the Green New Deal. You can choose to respond to that or not. Your call!



Republicans haven't been "decent people" as long as any of us have been alive.
I'm not saying they've been decent people, but they've gradually gotten worse in the last 30-40 years to the point where it's literally impossible to work with them. There are varying levels of awfulness and even getting back to where they were in the 80's would be a huge improvement.
Nancy Pelosi is the enemy and a punchline to Republicans, who are doing just fine politically. Leave this shit for the Lincoln Project, no one is buying her concern any more than Trump's towards the far left. I've been a fan of hers for most of her career but her political instincts have fallen off hard.
The country is in trouble if things don't get back to the point where the two parties can work together at least occasionally. You'll just have two groups trying to undo everything the previous group did when they held power over and over with zero compromise. This is not healthy for the country and things will never move forward because they'll keep having the same battles over and over.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,317
Pelosi and Schumer have got to go if the Dems sweep. Get those old ass people out of there.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,893
I did. I gained no further knowledge about this and still feel as if Nancy is still promoting "actual republicans" and if I were to interpret examples I'd have to look at the DNC and people like John Kasich who wanted to push for a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

And watch the whole clip is the same thing people told me about the Kenosha shooter and the Covington Kid. If there's one thing I can give credit to this mod team they take threads made on bullshit clips pretty seriously.
Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically. Anyway, agree to disagree here. There's context to be had. The headline is mainly clickbait which I'm not surprised about whatsoever, so there's a ton of hot takes here that are merely based off that headline. I would agree with a few other posters that she could just shut up – but this close to the biggest election ever – I'll take it. It's a correct move politically, although not the best move all things considered.

We can do much better than her, I'll say that much but, imo, she's been doing her job well for a while now as SotH.

End of the day, I just want people to watch the clip and not post based off solely headlines. Informed post > hot take.
 

BetterOffEd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
857
at what point in the past fifty years have the Republicans not been a white supremacist cult

while you and I both understand this started with Nixon, it wasn't the whole party at the time (many Republicans supported Civil Rights). It took decades for Southern Democrats to realize the parties had switched on racial issues, and the same can be said of Republicans. Many of these people do not follow issues like we do. Many of them are born into their political ideologies, much like a religion (in fact modern conservatism takes advantage of ties to religion for this reason)

Republican party, even today, is not 100% a white supremacist cult. There are still a lot of good people voting Republican without fully understanding how they are suppressing people. This is precisely what Pelosi's message says. She calls out Pro-Life voters supporting the child separation plan, and she highlights Trumps inability to condemn white supremacism. She does these things because many Republicans think they have the moral high ground without knowing the full picture. They are good but misinformed. Why condemn Pelosi for trying to show them they have been fooled? Particularly when Pelosi compromises nothing while doing so? Particularly when the alternative is chastising them and having them become even more entrenched in their views?


Of the two of us, I'm not the one pushing Trump's playbook on message boards, so, call me what you like...
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
User Banned (2 Weeks): Sexist-based rhetoric
Fuck this washed up arrogant old bitch. I really hope Shahid primaries her. She has enabled so much of Trump's shit. Get her out.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I appreciate what Pelosi has done but I'm kinda done with her and Schumer at this point. The Democratic party just seems lethargic and Joe Biden is the best example of this.

Also can we call 'pro-life' people anti-choice instead? You don't get to act like you're pro-life when you're for the death penalty and whine consistently about benefits for underprivileged people.
 

OneEyedKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
452
Sort of. There's no doubt that conservative policy further discriminates against disadvantaged groups but there are also elements of liberal/democratic policy that do the same - to a lesser extent of course.

The current, emboldened racism of the current administration is a different beast entirely.

A strong, balanced opposition is critical in a functioning democracy.
Yeah I know, that's why my first post in here was about the U.S. having two right-wing parties. Liberals have been and still are extremely discriminatory and deadly to various non-privileged groups, which is why I'm always critical of them.

But that doesn't change the fact that any form of conservatism is inherently bigoted and hateful. We don't need them at all. The entire ideology should be flushed down the toilet. The racism you're seeing now was always there, sometimes a little more subtly but there's nothing about the past 4 years that's new. Going back to them not saying the quiet parts out loud isn't a return to a balanced functioning civilized world. Their policies are, as they always have been, designed to hurt and kill others while they profit off it, nothing more.

You can have opposition without wanting that opposition to consist of the stupidest, most backwards, and most dangerous ideologies. Nancy Pelosi, like many liberals, still believes in some misguided sense of honor and respectability, and where has that gotten us? To people now saying "Boy I sure miss George Bush!"? To Colin Powell speaking at the DNC? To Lincoln Project videos being shared all over the place? It's meaningless. It's a kick in the face to everyone suffering under the effects of the American Empire.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,540
I hear the sounds of a lot of people's heads hitting their desks.

How do they STILL not get it?
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Yeah I know, that's why my first post in here was about the U.S. having two right-wing parties. Liberals have been and still are extremely discriminatory and deadly to various non-privileged groups, which is why I'm always critical of them.

But that doesn't change the fact that any form of conservatism is inherently bigoted and hateful. We don't need them at all. The entire ideology should be flushed down the toilet. The racism you're seeing now was always there, sometimes a little more subtly but there's nothing about the past 4 years that's new. Going back to them not saying the quiet parts out loud isn't a return to a balanced functioning civilized world. Their policies are, as they always have been, designed to hurt and kill others while they profit off it, nothing more.

You can have opposition without wanting that opposition to consist of the stupidest, most backwards, and most dangerous ideologies. Nancy Pelosi, like many liberals, still believes in some misguided sense of honor and respectability, and where has that gotten us? To people now saying "Boy I sure miss George Bush!"? To Colin Powell speaking at the DNC? To Lincoln Project videos being shared all over the place? It's meaningless. It's a kick in the face to everyone suffering under the effects of the American Empire.
In short
p-1-ellen-bush-video-edit.jpg
 

Tap In

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,034
Gilbert AZ
She doesn't mean a Trump party

Being older I remember when the Republicans were normal people with just different ideas than us.

Nothing wrong woth that and you always need a counter in a country. A healthy non toxic republican party would be much much better than the shit show we have now

Those people aren't disappearing if Trump is ousted and we can only hope that sane people will once again take control and right the ship to balance the country
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
She doesn't mean a Trump party

Being older I remember when the Republicans were normal people with just different ideas than us.

Nothing wrong woth that and you always need a counter in a country. A healthy non toxic republican party would be much much better than the shit show we have now

Those people aren't disappearing if Trump is ousted and we can only hope that sane people will once again take control and right the ship to balance the country
But the Republican party has been toxic for the past like 50 years? I mean literally this is a party that started the Iraq war who economic policies doomed the African American communities as other minorities
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,540
She doesn't mean a Trump party

Being older I remember when the Republicans were normal people with just different ideas than us.

Nothing wrong woth that and you always need a counter in a country. A healthy non toxic republican party would be much much better than the shit show we have now

Those people aren't disappearing if Trump is ousted and we can only hope that sane people will once again take control and right the ship to balance the country
I wouldn't call white supremacy just "different ideas".
 

BetterOffEd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
857
I don't think it will work in either direction, I'm saying that this is a foolish and myopic tactic that also throws the diverse Democratic base under the bus.

I completely disagree. Trump wouldn't have made a point to inject "depress the left" shit into the debate multiple times if it weren't working. I've seen his canvassers do it online for 5 years now, and I've seen it effect people I care about

Concerning throwing anybody under the bus, Nancy said very little and what she did say includes the following:

Nancy Pelosi said:
I come from a family oriented that way, but it shouldn't be a position that says it's OK to take babies out of the hands of their moms.

The country needs a strong Republican Party that's done so much for our country, and to have it be hijacked as a cult at this time is really a sad thing for America, also, as it gives credence to white supremacists.

She appeals to the empathy of soft Republicans, and the only two examples she uses to appeal to them are kids being taken from their mothers (hispanic immigrants) and support of white supremacy
Her appeals to empathy are specifically concerned with the mistreatment of the diverse Democratic base. How is this throwing the diverse Democratic base under the bus???

If you ask me, she's doing exactly what I want her to do as a Democratic. She's shaming Republicans by showing them that they allow monstrous treatment of minority to perpetuate, in a way that may convince them to change positions

Here's a question for y'all: What do you think the bottom should be? Are there any people that you would object to Democrats rehabilitating for the sake of swinging Trump voters? I'm sure Biden could make some inroads with southern GOP voters by praising their brave and honorable Confederate ancestors who were unlike the cowardly draft dodging Trump.

If this were actually a concern, I'd be with you 100%, but this thread is not a good example. Once again, Nancy is not compromising anything here. She is specifically shaming Republicans while showing how Democrats have the moral superiority on diversity issues. If Nancy were praising confederate soldiers, I wouldn't be defending her. As far as I'm concerned, you're building strawmen.
 
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BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,317
She doesn't mean a Trump party

Being older I remember when the Republicans were normal people with just different ideas than us.

Nothing wrong woth that and you always need a counter in a country. A healthy non toxic republican party would be much much better than the shit show we have now

Those people aren't disappearing if Trump is ousted and we can only hope that sane people will once again take control and right the ship to balance the country
They've been terrible since Nixon left office, so you must be getting up there in age. :)
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
it's the most generic thing you can say about the other side. Get well soon.

While the Dems can grow as a party and try to hold on to the idea of being a big tent... the GOP's collapse into the disgrace it is now isn't good for any of us long term.

We don't want one of the parties becoming a rats nest of the literal worst possible people/ideas... they can assume power easily and we've seen what a minority in a party can achieve.

Overall the country is at a changing point in culture and leadership. No one is particularly happy with the way things are going in many facets and a demand for change or new ideas have hit various parts of our lives. We've been frozen and keep playing off old ideas. Part of that change needed is a reset of american politics that both parties have resisted.

In that flux we've seen people grasp on to a lot of empty suits/grifters looking for leadership but the reality is we're still lacking any real vision. What comes as the older voices pass on and power transitions is anyone's guess but you have to hope it'll be for the better. In the mean time it's not surprising many want to go back to what worked for them decades ago.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,131
I only read the first page, but there's a LOT of bad takes on there. She's advocating for Republicans to take back their party from the Trump's, the McConnell's, the Graham's, the Cruz's, etc and actually be decent people again.

And it's a good message. Having a party you may not agree with on many things but can at least somewhat work with would be a huge benefit to this country.
That's wrong. She wants to bring it back to McConnell, Cruz, Graham etc. Thats who the party was before Trump.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
But the Republican party has been toxic for the past like 50 years? I mean literally this is a party that started the Iraq war who economic policies doomed the African American communities as other minorities
Yep. The last decent republican was Eisenhower.
 

Tap In

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,034
Gilbert AZ
I wouldn't call white supremacy just "different ideas".
Yea there was also some of that. But to summarize it to only that is to miss the point

Same reason many reasonable people who are still Republicans are disgusted by this bullshit now. They are not in that camp. Trump has rang the bell and those people have come out and finally got a seat at the table where other Republicans didn't let them sit in the past thirty years


Again to act like they are going to be eradicated is foolish so I'm just saying a "strong" as Nancy put it means, able to stand up to those base instincts and make politics a debate again of reasonable people and not hate and anger and this.... shit we have now

So they are not leaving so I hope they heal
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,540
Yea there was also some of that. But to summarize it to only that is to miss the point

Same reason many reasonable people who are still Republicans are disgusted by this bullshit now. They are not in that camp. Trump has rang the bell and those people have come out and finally got a seat at the table where other Republicans didn't let them sit in the past thirty years
lol "some".

The GOP has been fine with racism and white supremacy for decades now. All Trump has done is be open with it instead of keeping it slightly covert. Anybody who's is currently still part of that party isn't remotely someone I'd call reasonable.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Yea there was also some of that. But to summarize it to only that is to miss the point

Same reason many reasonable people who are still Republicans are disgusted by this bullshit now. They are not in that camp. Trump has rang the bell and those people have come out and finally got a seat at the table where other Republicans didn't let them sit in the past thirty years


Again to act like they are going to be eradicated is foolish so I'm just saying a "strong" as Nancy put it means, able to stand up to those base instincts and make politics a debate again of reasonable people and not hate and anger and this.... shit we have now

So they are not leaving so I hope they heal
Some of that lol?
The war on black peopl..... I mean drugs happen was a Regan thing.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,022
so we're still doing this "reach across the isle" thing? i'm sure it will work this decade.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
"There was a time where we could pretend the GOP were decent people with different opinions" is a different idea than "they were decent people with different opinions".

For those of us who think the two ideas are different, "we need to go back to the time when we could pretend things weren't that bad" is a very sinister suggestion.
 

RocketKiss

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,691
You gotta have some big cajones to say this after a stolen Supreme Court seat. Or just like... worthless.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
Bush and Reagan were both far worse than Trump in the grand scheme of things. Pelosi is wrong but she has also sucked for fucking forever so I can't say I'm surprised.
 
Aug 12, 2019
5,159
She doesn't mean a Trump party

Being older I remember when the Republicans were normal people with just different ideas than us.

Nothing wrong woth that and you always need a counter in a country. A healthy non toxic republican party would be much much better than the shit show we have now

Those people aren't disappearing if Trump is ousted and we can only hope that sane people will once again take control and right the ship to balance the country

Unless, you're 70+ years old, I doubt you remember a Republican party that was ever "just different ideas." Joseph McCarthy was leading his communist witch hunts as early as 1950, and Nixon was already a young and incredibly successful politician taking advantage of situations. The party has been an issue for decades and Ronald Reagan was arguably just as destructive as Trump in the grand scheme of things even if he "acted Presidential" according to some people.

Not that the Democratic party's history is some clean record when they did tons of heinous awful shit too, it's just I don't buy the idea the Republican party used to be a "normal people with different opinions" party in any of our life times.
 

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
while you and I both understand this started with Nixon, it wasn't the whole party at the time (many Republicans supported Civil Rights). It took decades for Southern Democrats to realize the parties had switched on racial issues, and the same can be said of Republicans. Many of these people do not follow issues like we do. Many of them are born into their political ideologies, much like a religion (in fact modern conservatism takes advantage of ties to religion for this reason)
i think by now even the most culturally and politically isolated republican voter is well aware of their party's reputation for producing policy half the country regards as overtly racist, so i think it would be grossly naive to assume that nancy pelosi is performing an admiration for historical Republicanism out of a sincere belief that she is convincing uninformed Republicans that actually their Trump admin's family separation policy is inhumane, as if four years of democratic messaging prior hadn't made them aware of this opinion until they saw nancy pelosi's take on MSNBC's morning joe

rather i think this represents the prevailing ideology of institutional Democratic politics that the only way to ensure the continuity of US institutions in the fashion they can (or care to) imagine them is to continue to appease nostalgic and reactionary sentiments within their electoral coalition

hence appearing on a program only liberal boomers like herself watch to opine about how republican politics ought to conform to a time when things were less desperate and frightening (for white americans) and you could have amicable disagreements with your republican neighbors about the basic humanity of oppressed minorities
 
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Garp TXB

Member
Apr 1, 2020
6,306
I haven't read the thread so this has probably been brought up and discussed already... but it's pretty clear she doesn't actually believe this and it's a play for the moderates. Up for debate on whether or not it's a good idea, but that's her political dice roll
 

Codeblue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,841
She needs to go. She's been awful since the Obama years at least and it's absolutely insane that the party has kept it's awful leadership after the perpetual implosion that started in 2010.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,920
I don't know if she genuinely believes it but she's referring to some bullshit fantasy bygone era of politics. And anyway the republicans were always terrible - just the general population were less aware because of lack of social media and as a whole were more conservative in past decades even on the left.

In reality, what America needs is a non-existent Republican Party. American conservatives have proven that they fall into just a few categories of either disgustingly evil, racist, nazi sympathizing far right fascists on one side and still shitty, racist. clueless, provincial, incapable of processing the modern world and it's problems or simply fighting for their grasp of whites power and control on the other.
 

BetterOffEd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
857
i think by now even the most culturally and politically isolated republican voter is well aware of their party's reputation for producing policy half the country regards as overtly racist, so i think it would be grossly naive to assume that nancy pelosi is performing an admiration for historical Republicanism out of a sincere belief that she is convincing uninformed Republicans that actually their Trump admin's family separation policy is inhumane, as if four years of democratic messaging prior hadn't made them aware of this opinion until they saw nancy pelosi's take on MSNBC's morning joe

rather i think this represents the prevailing ideology of institutional Democratic politics that the only way to ensure the continuity of US institutions in the fashion they can (or care to) imagine them is to continue to appease nostalgic and reactionary sentiments within their electoral coalition

hence appearing on a program only liberal boomers like herself watch to opine about how republican politics ought to conform to a time when things were less desperate and frightening (for white americans) and you could have amicable disagreements with your republican neighbors about the basic humanity of oppressed minorities

if you think every Republican voter is aware of those horrors their party supports, you are wrong. Apparently you've never consumed their media. Everything horrible their party does is spun or dismissed with expert precision. They are soooo much better at this than we are, it's frightening. Most Republicans have not been exposed to the "four years of democratic messaging prior" you refer to, and in fact, they have been specifically programmed to assume such messaging is fraudulent. And I agree with you, they probably aren't watching Morning Joe either, but in the off chance some of them were turned off by that debate and went back to MSNBC the next morning because they are having second thoughts about where Fox News has lead them, what's the harm in trying? Morning Joe is specifically targeting such viewers. It is not targeting you

Nancy used the word "cult" for a reason. People are indoctrinated into politics, much like they are indoctrinated into religion. I know many good people who still cling to "Republican" as a basic part of their identity, and I know you know such people as well. They are lied to constantly by their media bubble. They feel obligated to stay loyal due to some sense of duty to a parent or spouse. They are predisposed to believe the things they are doing are good. Writing these people off as a lost cause just makes our job harder.

And since you conveniently ignored my justification for that paragraph, here it is again, in all of it's glory:

Republican party, even today, is not 100% a white supremacist cult. There are still a lot of good people voting Republican without fully understanding how they are suppressing people. This is precisely what Pelosi's message says. She calls out Pro-Life voters supporting the child separation plan, and she highlights Trumps inability to condemn white supremacism. She does these things because many Republicans think they have the moral high ground without knowing the full picture. They are good but misinformed. Why condemn Pelosi for trying to show them they have been fooled? Particularly when Pelosi compromises nothing while doing so? Particularly when the alternative is chastising them and having them become even more entrenched in their views?

So, for the 2nd time, why condemn Pelosi for trying to show them they have been fooled? Particularly when Pelosi compromises nothing while doing so? Particularly when the alternative is chastising them and having them become even more entrenched in their views, as you would prefer? Just because you have already written them off?

Once again, Nancy has served in California for three decades, and the state has trended more and more liberal the entire time. She knows what she's doing. If this can help us win, then so be it. She isn't compromising anything here

If you can find a better way to "ensure the continuity of US institutions" without "appeasing nostalgic and reactionary sentiments within their electoral coalition" I'm all ears. I've listened to your opinions, I'm mostly convinced, heck I voted for Bernie twice.
But the fact of the matter is, you have nothing. You do not have a better way that will work.
Not while the Electoral Collage exists and right wing media actively brainwashes half of the country. And that is why we are where we are now. So we are stuck with the big tent, and as long as Nancy isn't compromising our ideals while trying to change these minds, what she's attempting is nothing but beneficial.
 
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Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,940
yup this is clearly what she's referring to

We only get two choices, would be much better if we had two "actual" choices. You know, two choices that actually want the country to remain whole
And if there were a true Republican party the Democrats could lean a lot farther left without worrying about Trumpy bullshit getting voted in

I'd certainly prefer multiple ranked choices, or two left parties, or dozens of other options. But twisting what she's saying and pretending it's somehow "wrong" isn't helping anything

This. This thread is nothing but knee jerk reactions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,581
Racoon City
She's right, if the pre-1960's GOP was still around the country would be in a much better place. The southern strategy has morphed them into the Neo-confederacy and the consequences are on full display.

It's not like pre 60s conservatives we less racist lol, they were still absolutely terrible as shit. Only thing that changed post 60s is they honed the same message they've been shouting to a fine point tip, but it was always "the niggers are going to get free stuff and ruin your communities and rape your women"

So hard pass on pre 60s cons too
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,781
I'm going to guess the overlap between the people angry about this, were also angry when Biden said a totally milquetoast thing about having a Republican VP if any of them weren't nuts.

Now, I know the response is, "well, Republican's don't do this," and the reasons for that are pretty simple - Republican's have advantages in the Senate and Electoral College map, and ya' know, there is the small matter, where since 1988, the Republican's have only won the popular vote once, so just maybe, being extremist partisans doesn't actually work out all that well for you, but then again, partisan extremist leftists who hate everybody who disagrees with them and winning isn't something very connected unless you're in a D+30 district.
 

Daingurse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,746
We don't need a Republican party. I don't want them to hold any power in this country. They have been on some bullshit my entire life. I just don't think this was a statement that needed to be said.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
User banned (1 month): inflammatory generalisation, multiple prior infractions for inflammatory commentary
I didn't know there were so many white supremacists here. What Nancy said is problematic.