The super resolution thing can make the gen last a lot longer for ps5 and Xbox.
fidelity fx pic had Guerrilla games logo.
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fidelity fx pic had Guerrilla games logo.
Could be for a few different reasons, they may not have been able to wait for a full implementation since they have their own timelines, they may not have wanted it for cost reasons, they may have other solutions of their own that could be better or worse. Many different reasons. The same way one might use a certain type or speed of ram vs the other.
Looks like MS was willing to wait before finalising the XSX|S design while Sony wasn't. This could be that Sonys costume stuff is good enough or that the 2019 release rumours where correct.
PS5 is a custom RDNA 2 with Sony specific features. Xbox is RDNA 2 closer to desktop features. Mark Cerny himself said they saw some features on the RDNA 2 they thought wasn't needed and customized to their specifications. Also DX is owned by MS, so it made sense the Sony went and made their own custom API. Probably won't matter in the long run.
This is pretty much exactly what I think this means. Of course this thread will still probably get crazy with warriors, but in reality I think it is just a simple custom vs AMD standard
Depends on if there is a reason to. These systems aren't weak in comparison to current PC hardware unlike last gen when it released.
Both companies have strong relationships with AMD and contributed to the roadmap. MSFT has a strategy of insuring their games work on many devices without huge effort. SNE has to insure they work on one device. MSFT would have been stupid not to adopt the full feature set. SNE did not have to account for so many different scenarios and was able to customize to one device. Different strategies and both are sound business decisions. Time will show what was adopted but at the end of the day the difference between the machines is going to be up to what each development team can push out of them because they are both beasts - especially at the price points.
End of the day we are getting consoles that....you can buy both and still be cheaper than buying a good PC. It's really a beautiful thing whether one uses full RDNA2 And the other uses some of it and some mystery sauce (I mean hello demon souls is a looker I'm sure they will be just fine)
I just got home and just catching up on gaming news today. Did not read the entire thread, but did read the article posted on Xbox.com. So MS timed this release with the AMD announcement of the new AMD GPU's. Seems like they are working hand-in-hand with each other more than what many thought. The statement about the XSS/XSX using the full RDNA 2 tech like the AMD GPU's is interesting. We all know the proof will be in the games.
I guess nobody really knows how far components and tech will advance in 4 or 5 years. But if differences become glaringly obvious then that normally pushes the company who's at a disadvantage to bring out a better model. Hence why we have X-Box One X.
But they'd be making a PC game but with GDK, not an Xbox game specifically, so whatever resource available as part of their normal team would simply shift to modified workflows to accommodate the new framework, with the added benefit what's being made can be branched off onto Xbox consoles, rather then porting from scratch I'd imagine.
Sony very likely had their own equivalent functionality. The issue with statements like these is we don't actually know whose implementation is better: Sony's custom or AMD's vanilla (or if they are effectively a wash).
Theres no push for a new resolution next gen though like we've had with 4k.
How do you know this? Digital Foundry has asked Sony about this very issue and Sony hasn't responded. it is pure speculation to assume Sony has an equivalent for all RDNA 2 items that PS5 doesn't have. Do we know if PS5 has an equivalent to Mesh Shaders, VRS, or machine learning (hardware based)? I don't think Sony has confirmed that PS5 has an equivalent solution for these features, not yet at least.
This is only my opinion, but I don't think they will, at least not Sony. The big reason for pro models this gen was the 4k marketing, so they had a reason to make those models. But what a new model would bring this gen? 8K? Think it's too soon for that. They won't do a console that it's too different from the base ones because they will always hold them back. I believe Sony will spend their time going after VR and improve their cloud solution and MS will probably do this too.
Yes -- at least on pc,dx12, vulkan, and metal represent a radical change graphics apis, and require more planning and manual setup for things that previous graphics apis did automatically. As engines and tools mature, that difficulty will go away for people who dont care, and the extra control (and therefor speed) will be there for gamss that need it. Not sure how hard consoles were to dev for already, might be a wash.
Well the ps4pro actually released first. I think with this gen will last a while with all these optimizations.
In the past I had seen people mention that the PS4 Pro was more for PSVR than it was other things as base PS4 games were struggling.
It's missing a feature without a custom equivalent, we just don't know which one.
I don't think the question if ML is hardware-based or hardware-accelerated on PS5 but rather if the machine supports reduced precision math as XSX does.
Honestly everyone is just speculating. The only info we have is MSFTs PR statement and Tom Warren and others claiming that MSFT waited for something that Sony didn't, which is why they will have less units available near launch. Until we get a deep dive from Sony on the architecture we don't really know if it is missing anything of significance, or if they truly have custom impls for everything. Though if MSFT knows I assume they will highlight the difference in their video this week.
Interesting..so essentially like anything else devs really just need to get comfortable with the software and that will take quite some time.
Big surprise. I really wasn't expecting that.
Let's see how this full RDNA2 features will workout for Series X/S.
Let's see how this full RDNA2 features will workout for Series X/S.
This seems like Microsoft can technically claim this because of their default DirectX API integration, but Sony could very well have worked with AMD for their own implementations of the same technologies that leverage the architecture, but they just can't use the DirectX/PC platform buzzwords.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Mesh shaders and VRS are supported by Vulcan. Sampler Feedback Streaming and DXR are MS proprietary.
See my edit.
Sony obviously has an AMD hardware accelerated ray tracing solution for example. It not being "DirectX Ray Tracing" is probably not relevant.
Pretty excited to see how this gen will mature over the next 6-7 years. There's some serious tech going into these consoles.
depends on how you look at it - when that initial XSX media came out with an almost comical amount of locked clocks mentions .. it was a given it was to dull sony's PR touting higher clocks .. so i mean which is "better" again if sony going their route enabled them to spend more silicon budget on IO .. then 'better' is going to be proven in the resulting games. system balance is going to be a thing .. to what extent .. will see. but i don't see DMC running at 60ps 4k ..its 30 just like ps5 ..so where is the advantage showing up? and if its not ..then maybe that over head could have been better spent elsewhere
Tom Warren has suggested that this is the case, and explains why Sony's PS5 preorder supply was greater than Xbox preorder supply.
It seems that the rumour that Sony planned for PS5 to come out last year was true, they probably finalised their hardware sooner.
Anyway, I'm guessing Sony has their equivalent of some of those features, or do stuff in their own way, like Geometry Engine.
Their hardware solutions are usually more custom, to suit whatever their needs are.
Anyway, I'm guessing Sony has their equivalent of some of those features, or do stuff in their own way, like Geometry Engine.
Their hardware solutions are usually more custom, to suit whatever their needs are.
Something made in partnership between Xbox and AMD doesn't sound exclusive? We know Microsoft added dedicated hardware to assist with machine learning/super resolution. Sony hasn't mentioned anything about the PS5 SOC also having dedicated hardware for it and we also know that the PS5 chip does not have all the features of RDNA2. Put the two together and ?
Yes, cross platform aligns with what I said. XSX and PC (and cloud, lol). It being open does not benefit Sony if the PS5 does not have hardware to utilize it.
Well this is assuming Sony choose to omit the necessary hardware, so it would be on them.
Both consoles are missing RDNA2 features, that's not the semantics MS are trying to play.
MS are saying of the features that are there more of theirs are "AMD RDNA2".
We knew this since Mark Cerny's talk, he was quite proud of the custom architecture in the PS5. So proud he even said if parts of AMD's products are similar it's not because of them it's because of us.
That doesn't stop Sony manufacturing hw that will support all these features even if they sdk don't support them atm or at a later date. Unless ps5 started manufacturing process 6 months ahead of ms with a incomplete hardware from AMD. As long as the final HW is full featured RDNA2, software can come later.
Isn't that what this is saying though? That they either dropped RDNA2 features or replaced some with custom ones.
This is what is so strange to me though. We know that Sony worked with AMD to help develop a number of features that wouldn't have been there otherwise.
The only console warriors MS seems to attract are the Sony fans XD
To be fair though, if what MS is saying is true then all they are doing is speaking the truth. How other people react to that truth is none of Microsoft's business.
Yeah, anyone know based on early leaks in terms of manufacturing schedule? all RDNA2 hw are shipping around the same time I don't think the manufacturing time is too far apart tbh. Only thing that was unclear from Cerny presentation was the mesh shaders and their geometry shaders.
IIRC Cerny was saying specifically that there were features that they worked on, in fact like he made it sound like a significant key components of it, were going to make it to other platforms, or at least consumer cards. He stressed that they helped make RDNA2. This helped them because they wanted those features but it also helped AMD advance the platform. The question is what those were.
I have no idea on manufacturing schedules other that this quote from Tom Warren:
This could indicate that Sony started manufacturing earlier. Or that their customisations gives better yields; allows for them to make more PS5s.
Maybe its features that aren't in RDAN2 but 3? Or they could be features that are more suited to console hardware and not desktop cards? I'm really not an expert with graphics tech lol
Well again, he said they were features that were part of RDNA2 that would end up in discrete cards as well.
I had this same thought, late dev kits were all about getting PC/Xbox features to be the same. This is probably also why they completely re-did their development tools. This will probably mean that it is easier to port to/from PC once devs get used to the tools, but in the meantime could take some getting used to.
The thought that Sony isn't using some RDNA 2 features because they have instead replaced them with RDNA 3 features while Xbox uses the 2 features is laughable. Microsoft wouldn't make a statement about being the only console to support all of the RDNA 2 features if this was the case. MS would look like morons when Sony came out and touted the RDNA features.
They still would have. Intel doesn't have a competitive APU product due to not having any graphics chops at the moment, while Nvidia doesn't have a competitive APU due to the fact that their CPU hardware is high level only for mobile devices. In order to get away from AMD you have to have separate CPU (Intel?) and GPU (Nvidia?) components to be competitive. That makes backwards compatibility difficult, and requires you to completely change your development tools.