Mike Z (Skullgirls creator) explains why wi-fi sucks for gaming

FSLink · Apr 29, 2020

JesseDeya said:
Wireless is the future, you Luddites will catch on eventually. :)

Yeah, but when we're talking about fighting games, not in the near future. :)
In a genre where every frame matters, having an expensive mesh router solution is not really realistic for most users, and most users don't have the technical background to understand how to set it up properly and ensure minimal issues when a $10 ethernet cable will suffice in most cases.

Again, power users are not the audience of this video.

But keep sounding condescending, that'll convince people.

EduBRK · Apr 29, 2020

Murdy Plops said:
Is this good?

C:\>ping 8.8.8.8 -n 20.

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 37ms, Average = 25ms

Virgin Media connection over Google Wifi

This is pretty good actually.

This is mine (in portuguese), cable through power line:

Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=5ms TTL=57
Resposta de 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 tempo=4ms TTL=57

TheEchosOfTheCyborg · Apr 29, 2020

maximumzero said:
What part of "I can't drill holes into my apartment walls" do you not understand?

I genuinely feel that many people in gaming circles don't understand or deliberately ignore the reality for many people that improving or upgrading isn't an option and given how things are going with the conoravirus, likely going to become less of an option for more and more people. Their really feels like these discussions bring out the classism and gatekeepy attitudes not just in Era, but in gaming in general.

Professor Beef said:
That's what drills are for.

Luckily you just need to connect the cable once and you're all set!

...what

1) most ethernet cables aren't so huge that they stop doors from closing
2a) kids are dumb and trip over shit all the time
2b) use tape to prevent tripping

Prine said:
Who on earth would do this to themselves, wifi is a bastardised wired connection, it self throttles because it assumes radio disturbances are network collisions. Terrible for gaming.

Comments like these especially come across as seemingly just not caring that not everyone's situation is the same and some people simply can't get good Wifi or weird connections and come across so dismissive and snobbish in the process.

Edit: Also seriously? There's a comment in this thread really comparing people who use Wifi to flat earthers? Get some f***ing perspective, I am genuinely baffled from that, WTF.

krazen · Apr 29, 2020

TheEchosOfTheCyborg said:
I genuinely feel that many people in gaming circles don't understand or deliberately ignore the reality for many people that improving or upgrading isn't an option and given how things are going with the conoravirus, likely going to become less of an option for more and more people. Their really feels like these discussions bring out the classism and gatekeepy attitudes not just in Era, but in gaming in general.

Comments like these especially come across as seemingly just not caring that not everyone's situation is the same and some people simply can't get good Wifi or weird connections and come across so dismissive and snobbish in the process.

Yup.
There's a 'You are a selfish piece of shit and ru' tinge to these discussions and it kinda feels a bit toxic gamer. Like some people on this forum are teenagers that gotta explain to their parents why there's a cat 5 snaking from the living room upstairs, some have living arrangements where they don't have access to the router, etc.

While the discussion is overall a good one to have, the entitlement and privilege is thick

VariantX · Apr 29, 2020

Kaguya said:
This thread is a perfect example why "wifi filter" option should be mandatory going forward.

Yep. It's not reasonable to ask everyone to be wired when everyone has different living situations. It's more effective and more simple to have developers allow players to filter out wi-fi connections. Really all that ire should be aimed at developers going forward because they should be more than aware of this by now. It's not enough for developers to say "just use ethernet" anymore especially when its clearly possible to detect and display what kind of connectivity players have. Give players the ability to filter and control their experience.

Master Milk · Apr 29, 2020

TheEchosOfTheCyborg said:
I genuinely feel that many people in gaming circles don't understand or deliberately ignore the reality for many people that improving or upgrading isn't an option and given how things are going with the conoravirus, likely going to become less of an option for more and more people. Their really feels like these discussions bring out the classism and gatekeepy attitudes not just in Era, but in gaming in general.

Comments like these especially come across as seemingly just not caring that not everyone's situation is the same and some people simply can't get good Wifi or weird connections and come across so dismissive and snobbish in the process.

It isn't that the comments seem like people just don't care about everyone's situation. It's that no one cares about everyone else's situation.

Which should be obvious. There's no reason to. Someone else's set up shouldn't be having any effect on the game I'm playing. The fact that it does is a problem devs need to work harder to address, but of course it's a lot easier for people to attack the obvious thing and say that the people with bad setups are actually the problem.

but yea fuck a wi-fi user, maybe when good rollback becomes the standard we won't have to complain so much, but in the present day, just go play a different genre, or read a book. but if you come online ruining my experience, i'm gonna feel justified in telling you to fuck off

FSP · Apr 29, 2020

I've been an advocate of having TOS for online games where the competitive mode expects you to run on wired, and will actively prevent you playing the game if you cannot sustain a stable ping to a test server.

Master Milk said:
maybe when good rollback becomes the standard we won't have to complain so much

Rollback cannot save you from wifi. Late packets are always going to be horrible to deal with.

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

Great explainer but unfortunately you'll still get people who refuse to listen.

WiFi will never be good enough, it is the nature of wireless technology. There will be interference and all sorts of other stuff that results in packets getting dropped.

If you for some reason can't run an Ethernet cable then please buy a powerline Ethernet adapter. They aren't that expensive and I seriously doubt there are that many people who can't run Ethernet that also have their console/PC on a different circuit then their modem.

Edit: netcode isn't going to save you either as demonstrated in the video. Skullgirls is using GGPO which is considered by many to be the gold standard in rollback netcode. Maybe some genius will come along and make something better that somehow works just as good on WiFi, but that's unlikely and the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because you don't want to use a wire.

WhiskerFrisker · Apr 29, 2020

Kthulhu said:
Great explainer but unfortunately you'll still get people who refuse to listen.

WiFi will never be good enough, it is the nature of wireless technology. There will be interference and all sorts of other stuff that results in packets getting dropped.

If you for some reason can't run an Ethernet cable then please buy a powerline Ethernet adapter. They aren't that expensive and I seriously doubt there are that many people who can't run Ethernet that also have their console/PC on a different circuit then their modem.

Eh it depends on how the place was built. Apartments may have different circuits running throughout. I had that problem.I just bought an Ethernet cable.

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

WhiskerFrisker said:
Eh it depends on how the place was built. Apartments may have different circuits running throughout. I had that problem.I just bought an Ethernet cable.

Most apartments built within the past few decades or have been renovated relatively recently are going to mostly be on the same circuit per unit. Unless you're in NYC living in some apartment built in the 40's or something then you probably can use powerline Ethernet no problem. My apartment was built in the early 80s and I can get a low and consistently ping no problem.

Edit: and as much as some would hate to do it, you can get a long Ethernet cable if worst comes to worst. Or just move your setup or modem so that one is closer to the other if you don't want a long wire.

Hippopuncher12 · Apr 29, 2020

I'm never not going to be using Wifi, convenience is far more important to me than better ping, instead of complaining about people that use Wifi, (Many because they don't have any other option) start being better developers and add an opt out from playing with Wifi users.

WhiskerFrisker · Apr 29, 2020

Kthulhu said:
Most apartments built within the past few decades or have been renovated relatively recently are going to mostly be on the same circuit per unit. Unless you're in NYC living in some apartment built in the 40's or something then you probably can use powerline Ethernet no problem. My apartment was built in the early 80s and I can get a low and consistently ping no problem.

Edit: and as much as some would hate to do it, you can get a long Ethernet cable if worst comes to worst. Or just move your setup or modem so that one is closer to the other if you don't want a long wire.

I guess my apartment was built in the 40s (it wasn't) 🤷🏿‍♂️. Power line did not work in whatever room I tested it. So I used an Ethernet cable which gave me higher speeds than what I would've gotten over power line.

JesseDeya · Apr 29, 2020

FSLink said:
Yeah, but when we're talking about fighting games, not in the near future. :)

What? If a wifi network introduces no additional latency or packet loss how can it possibly be unsuitable, even for fighting games. You and I both know the biggest latency issues happen between the clients modems, not on their own networks.

FSLink said:
In a genre where every frame matters, having an expensive mesh router solution is not really realistic for most users,

That sentence literally doesn't make sense. Non sequitur overload. Shutting down.

FSLink said:
Again, power users are not the audience of this video.

Tell that to the folk in this thread recommending running 100ft of ethernet cable and installing switches. You don't need to be a power user to buy a good wifi setup, I linked to the website.

FSLink said:
But keep sounding condescending, that'll convince people.

Harsh. I put an internet approved get-out-of-jail-free anti-condescending :) on the end of my sentence.

I'm not looking to convince people to go wireless, I'm looking to discredit this stupid youtube video that irrationally attributes packet loss to wifi without any form of actual fault or fact finding. If this dev puts as little rigour into his bug hunting his code as he did this video... well...umm....he probably wastes a lot of his own time?

Ocean · Apr 29, 2020

Is there a technical obstacle preventing devs from quarantining WiFi players into their own matchmaking pool where they can't affect others?

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

WhiskerFrisker said:
I guess my apartment was built in the 40s (it wasn't) 🤷🏿‍♂️. Power line did not work in whatever room I tested it. So I used an Ethernet cable which gave me higher speeds than what I would've gotten over power line.

There are always exceptions (I work with electricians, so I am aware how fucky it can be sometimes. Seriously it's amazing any building gets finished.) but most people aren't going to have that problem. For most people their barrier is moving their setup because otherwise they'd have to drill a hole or run a long cable. Power line Ethernet is a go to solution for those people.

JesseDeya · Apr 29, 2020

Ocean said:
Is there a technical obstacle preventing devs from quarantining WiFi players into their own matchmaking pool where they can't affect others?

No, just a dumb-fuckery reason.

Are we seriously, actually, really, honestly suggesting this now?

Holy shit. Build the wall people, those wifi-ers are coming to take our jobs!

Transistor · Apr 29, 2020

I can't believe people are suggesting gatekeeping wifi users out of playing online with wired users.

Naner · Apr 29, 2020

Ragnorok64 said:
If you can walk from your router to your device in less than 300' you have a path to run a cable at the very least. Even Ikea sells cable management kits that will work with hardwood floors.

Products

Browse our full range of products from dressing tables to complete modern kitchens. Click here to find the right IKEA product for you. Browse online and in-store today!

www.ikea.com

The problem with running ethernet cables everywhere is overcoming walls and doors.

Back at my parents' place I asked our electrician to drill holes into the walls so we could pass ethernet cables from where the fiber was to the living room and my bedroom, then I put a good router in a central position and used a switch to wire up all my computers and consoles.

Now I'm in a rented apartment and I definitely don't have the liberty to do so... annoyingly all the rooms have phone line plugs, but I'm not sure if I can use them to extend the network.

Delusibeta · Apr 29, 2020

ResetEra: where there is a defense force for everything.

Ultimately, the best netcode in the world is worthless if there's a connection issue between console and server. This is a particular problem for fighting games, which are very sensitive to dropped packets. Rollback won't save you here. Ultimately, a way to filter out wi-fi users will be next on the FGC's list of demands.

pksu · Apr 29, 2020

Transistor said:
I can't believe people are suggesting gatekeeping wifi users out of playing online with wired users.

Well, many MP games have some sort of ping restrictions anyway, this is just another metric for connection quality.

Ragnorok64 · Apr 29, 2020

Naner said:
The problem with running ethernet cables everywhere is overcoming walls and doors.

Back at my parents' place I asked our electrician to drill holes into the walls so we could pass ethernet cables from where the fiber was to the living room and my bedroom, then I put a good router in a central position and used a switch to wire up all my computers and consoles.

Now I'm in a rented apartment and I definitely don't have the liberty to do so... annoyingly all the rooms have phone line plugs, but I'm not sure if I can use them to extend the network.

You'll either have the tack down the wire or run it up and over the door frame. There've been clips linked to in this thread that can be attached with double sided tape to avoid damaging walls. It's not ideal, but in a renting situation it was never going to be ideal.

werezompire · Apr 29, 2020

Just did a ping test on my laptop while on a different floor from the wifi router & got a pretty consistent 48-50ms time. Not ideal, but seems plenty fine for the kind of online games I play (Path of Exile and the occasional Splatoon).

Kyo · Apr 29, 2020

Transistor said:
I can't believe people are suggesting gatekeeping wifi users out of playing online with wired users.

I mean... Why not? The stance seems from people who use wifi here is that it is generally not a problem to their online experience and that the complaints are overblown. Let the people who do see a problem move out, and the people who don't can play in a pool with people who agree that it doesn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't think the game should fundamentally prohibit wired to wifi matches, but if you want to be particular about the connection type of your opponents i don't see a problem with letting the player choose.

Ragnorok64 · Apr 29, 2020

Transistor said:
I can't believe people are suggesting gatekeeping wifi users out of playing online with wired users.

If there's one thing I'll ever give Mortal Kombat dap for it's that it showed people's connecting type before you accepted the match

Mortal Kombat 11's connection display should become the standard approach for all fighting games

This really should be standard or a filter setting in all online games.

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

Transistor said:
I can't believe people are suggesting gatekeeping wifi users out of playing online with wired users.

If WiFi users just stopped using WiFi then no one would be. They're literally ruining the experience for those of us that actually want to play competitively.

Transistor · Apr 29, 2020

Kthulhu said:
If WiFi users just stopped using WiFi then no one would be. They're literally ruining the experience for those of us that actually want to play competitively.

You know it's not that simple, right? Many people simply don't have an easy way to run wires to their modems.

Fiddle · Apr 29, 2020

Is this more of a problem for fighting/P2P games specifically? Obviously WiFI isn't "ideal" for any type of low latency content and I play exclusively through ethernet, but still, I don't see this as a big problem outside of fighting games from the examples the video shows.

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

werezompire said:
Just did a ping test on my laptop while on a different floor from the wifi router & got a pretty consistent 48-50ms time. Not ideal, but seems plenty fine for the kind of online games I play (Path of Exile and the occasional Splatoon).

Most fighting games are p2p and generally are more sensitive then those games.

Transistor said:
You know it's not that simple, right? Many people simply don't have an easy way to run wires to their modems.

They should buy a powerline adapter or move their setup then.

I shouldn't be forced to have a terrible experience because someone who is serious enough about a game to play it years after release can't be bothered to put in a tiny amount of effort to make sure the experience isn't horrible for everyone.

If someone has the money and passion to go to locals every weekend and buy a $200 arcade stick then they can buy a $30-$50 adapter and find space in their home.

Transistor · Apr 29, 2020

Kthulhu said:
Most fighting games are p2p and generally are more sensitive then those games.

They should buy a powerline adapter or move their setup then.

I shouldn't be forced to have a terrible experience because someone who is serious enough about a game to play it years after release can't be bothered to put in a tiny amount of effort to make sure the experience isn't horrible for everyone.

If someone has the money and passion to go to locals every weekend and buy a $200 arcade stick then they can buy a $30-$50 adapter and find space in their home.

Powerline adapters don't work sometimes if it's an older place with bad wiring or the wiring was set up in a way that simply makes it not work. It's just not that simple.

Zombegoast · Apr 29, 2020

I remember back in the early 7th gen days when people debated the Ps3 being the better console because it came with a build in Wifi.

Bony Manifesto said:
For rollback-based fighting games, sure, you should probably do everything in your power to avoid any lag on your end, as for how much the technology revolutionised online fighting games, the downside is that it will shit the bed in anything less than an optimal network environment.

For every other genre, it's nowhere near as much of a big deal. In your average modern FPS, your network connection has to be consistently poor for it to be noticeable, and even then, the only person it negatively affects is you (you might be rubber-banding around the area on your screen, but everyone else sees you as a stationary target).

It's a big deal in FPS. Whenever I see a player with high ping, I start seeing packet loss icons

aevanhoe · Apr 29, 2020

SpaceCrystal said:
Wired will always trump Wi-Fi. Period.

Unless room organization is concerned. It's like saying a race car will always trump a truck. Period.

Respawn · Apr 29, 2020

Tawpgun said:
tbh I have a wired connection and despite the network stats being said I still get stuttering and lag and have to reset the router like every 2-3 days. I think a good wifi connection would be better than my shit wired one.

That could be your internet or router. Crappy router, check for newer firmware or replace it. Or do a speedtest and see how high the ping is. Internet is getting saturated these days unless you have a business line or paying for a very high speed which can accommodate the drops.

Ocean · Apr 29, 2020

JesseDeya said:
No, just a dumb-fuckery reason.

Are we seriously, actually, really, honestly suggesting this now?

Holy shit. Build the wall people, those wifi-ers are coming to take our jobs!

Not to take our jobs, just to ruin our lobbies :)

I have a fairly decent WiFi setup at home. I have a Ubiquiti USG4-Pro and 2 NanoHD + 2 HD-IW access points hard wired to a US-16-150w Switch. Having a hard-wired access point setup instead of the wireless backhaul on mesh systems is great, and I've meticulously tuned AP positioning, radio power, RSSI, channel selection, VHT, and every other setting to ensure coverage is as solid as possible. It may not be perfect, but I've probably spent more time and money on my home network than the average joe. And it's great, I'm satisfied with it!

That being said, I would never use this for gaming. I had to for a while when I was tinkering with my network and needed to free up some Ethernet ports on my switch, and while I won't lie and pretend the difference was night and day, it was absolutely noticeable. And the key is, I knew this wasn't just a worse experience for me: I was also making others' experience worse.

SkoomaBlade · Apr 29, 2020

Some of the responses in this thread are bizzare. I think most of the people here at an enthusiast game forum understand that wired is objectively better that wifi. Yet for some reason, some people can't wrap their head around the fact that a wired connection just isnt as convenient or even practical for some people's home set up.

It's just video games people. Chill out.

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

JesseDeya said:
I'm not looking to convince people to go wireless, I'm looking to discredit this stupid youtube video that irrationally attributes packet loss to wifi without any form of actual fault or fact finding. If this dev puts as little rigour into his bug hunting his code as he did this video... well...umm....he probably wastes a lot of his own time?

I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. I work in IT and it's literally my job to understand this stuff. 2.4 GHz wifi can experience a lot of interference just by making microwave popcorn. 5 GHz WiFi is better but it isn't perfect. You will still have packet loss because it's the nature of the medium. You can have the ideal setup, but you will still have packet loss. My coworkers and I deal with this crap all the time. We have garbage software we are forced to support that demands a consistent connection and will fail if the connection to our internal server experiences significant packet loss, so the company that makes it told us to require all of our users to use a wired connection. We have enterprise grade routers and access points in a config setup by a network admin that previously setup entire data centers for oil companies and even that has packet loss.

Transistor said:
Powerline adapters don't work sometimes if it's an older place with bad wiring or the wiring was set up in a way that simply makes it not work. It's just not that simple.

As I previously pointed out in another post this is not an issue for most and even then there is nothing stopping them from moving their setup. In the event none of that is possible that would be yet another reason for fighting games to have a filter for players who actually want to have a good match.

Deleted member 442 · Apr 29, 2020

I posted the below reply a few months ago in a related thread

Capcom's New Online Tournament Mode For Street Fighter 5 Bans Wifi Users From Participating

This thread has been on my mind for a little while so I think I’m going to just dump into a post what I know about Wifi, Powerline Adapters, Rollback Netcode and whatever else that is relevant to the conversation. Why is Wifi bad for online fighting games? This is something for which there is...

www.resetera.com

It is good to see that a number of the points that I flagged up are relevant to what MikeZ has demonstrated in his video.

The only thing I'd like to add is that you can buy a flat cable that is around 30 or 50 metres in length for a fraction of the money that you might spend on a new console, a new controller or a new graphics card and it is one of the best upgrades that you can undertake as a fighting game player.

Take some time and plan out how you can run an Ethernet cable through your apartment or home. If you want you can make it really fancy and run it through your walls and floors, but since flat Ethernet cables are plentiful and affordable you could probably do just as well by running that cable around your rooms, under carpets and door frames.

ThatCrazyGuy · Apr 29, 2020

All devs should be like MK11 and show you the connection type.

Give people the option to filter out WiFi connections if they want.

Kthulhu · Apr 29, 2020

Also if some of y'all are using WiFi and ran that ping test with good results. Try again with

Code:

ping 8.8.8.8 -t

and just wait for it to spike. That's a longer but more accurate test as your computer will just keep pinging until you close your command prompt/power shell window. You will almost certainly see it spike at least once if you run it for a few minutes.

Deleted member 23381 · Apr 29, 2020

JesseDeya said:
Wireless is the future, you Luddites will catch on eventually. :)

It's not the future, it's the current reality which is probably why these people are so worked up over it.

Like 90% of console players use wifi and the trend is never gonna reverse, especially not for the sake of others
To expect otherwise would be next level delusion 😂

Only the most of dedicated are gonna fuck with wires over aesthetics and convenience and they already have.

Deleted member 442 · Apr 29, 2020

Transistor said:
I can't believe people are suggesting gatekeeping wifi users out of playing online with wired users.

I think matching people who have bad connections is a great idea.

2shd · Apr 29, 2020

QisTopTier said:
Trying to explain to people that Wifi is terrible for fighting games is the video game equivalent of trying to convince a flat earther the earth isn't flat. Endless excuses and "but but I swear" crap. Shit is a waste of time just give me the option to ignore people on Wifi in match making and let me go on with my day.

It really is. People take it way too personally.

Kyo said:
I mean... Why not? The stance seems from people who use wifi here is that it is generally not a problem to their online experience and that the complaints are overblown. Let the people who do see a problem move out, and the people who don't can play in a pool with people who agree that it doesn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't think the game should fundamentally prohibit wired to wifi matches, but if you want to be particular about the connection type of your opponents i don't see a problem with letting the player choose.

Exactly. Let players decide if they don't want to deal with WiFi connections. The WiFi pool is still going to be huge.

Jin · Apr 29, 2020

Give us options to filter WiFi users from the pool, I'm matchmaking with and I don't care if some of you guys use WiFi.

I just don't want to deal with people sabotaging my time spent playing something because they feel like it doesn't matter to them (or can't change it).

Kaguya · Apr 29, 2020

Transistor said:
Powerline adapters don't work sometimes if it's an older place with bad wiring or the wiring was set up in a way that simply makes it not work. It's just not that simple.

This isn't different from someone living somewhere with bad ISPs, there's nothing they can do abut it, but if you start allowing everyone in without connection quality filtering you also ruin other people experiences. How is wifi situation any different?! It's not discrimination against the unfortunate(it's disgusting to even call it that), it's better quality assurance on the service.

Atheerios · Apr 29, 2020

Kaguya said:
This thread is a perfect example why "wifi filter" option should be mandatory going forward.

~~I'm pretty sure console games have no way to know if they are connected through ethernet or wireless.~~

Edit: I was wrong

Kaguya · Apr 29, 2020

Atheerios said:
I'm pretty sure console games have no way to know if they are connected through ethernet or wireless.

Some console games already do that...

Atheerios · Apr 29, 2020

JesseDeya said:
People get it, the poor dev in the youtube video doesn't. He is being much too absolute:

Wi-fi Sucks for Gaming!

Wi-fi can ALWAYS experience random packet delays.

The Wi-fi caused that packet to arrive late.

He then goes on to not prove, or even convincingly demonstrate any of those things.

For starters, his 'experiment' is so cobbled together and inconclusive it's almost laughable.

He compared his results wired, to some other guy on wifi (?? who knows where this guy is, what his setup is, what else might be causing packet loss). I mean... WTF.

At least test your OWN setup on wired and wifi, and have the other guy test his on wired and wifi. That would still be the worlds shittiest sample size of n=2, but at least it wouldn't be this completely non-corroboratory bullshit.

Yup. That video is really terrible. Just because he is a dev doesn't mean he knows a lot about networking, and the video confirms that.

Vanillalite · Apr 29, 2020

Jin said:
Give us options to filter WiFi users from the pool, I'm matchmaking with and I don't care if some of you guys use WiFi.

I just don't want to deal with people sabotaging my time spent playing something because they feel like it doesn't matter to them (or can't change it).

What you should actually care about is good connections with low ping low jitter zero packet loss ect...

You should care about this regardless of wireless or wired. Going wired on a crappy ISP provided routers does none of us any favors and actually fucks this conversation more as people will scream but I'm hardwired.

Chief Malik · Apr 29, 2020

This isn't a problem, all fighting games need an option to ignore WiFi users and we'll be Gucci.

LCGeek · Apr 29, 2020

Kthulhu said:
Most fighting games are p2p and generally are more sensitive then those games.

I have no problem saying this again in the case of the game he mentioned that's a no.

The game has a lockstep netcode if your connection can handle it, that makes it similar or same to any fighter netcode. Be happy your rollback feature rewinds events in PoE rubberband or hard lockups in bad situation is death. There are plenty of instances in poe that are instant or near instant that will kill you if you don't move quick and yes we are talking 1f situations or less since instant is nothing. A hardcore player loses all his progress vs what in a fighter a round or a match? Game can be a bullet hell meant to kill you. Game can also use more ticks per second. You can make that point about D3 on a mechanical and techinical level it's not true of PoE.

Trace · Apr 29, 2020

Atheerios said:
Yup. That video is really terrible. Just because he is a dev doesn't mean he knows a lot about networking, and the video confirms that.

Yes. I'm sure that MikeZ knows nothing about networking. Of course.

Might as well come out and say the Cannon brothers know nothing either because you haven't heard of them.

Mike Z (Skullgirls creator) explains why wi-fi sucks for gaming

Teyvat Traveler

Teyvat Traveler

Outer Wilds Ventures Test Pilot

Prophet of Truth

Zeboyd Games

Outer Wilds Ventures Test Pilot

Outer Wilds Ventures Test Pilot

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper

Chicken Chaser

User requested account closure