Megaman really gets too much undeserving recogniton

ZeoVGM · Sep 17, 2021

It's actually impressive how much of the basis of the OP is factually wrong.

Lozjam said:
Even Megaman fans talk about the bad quality of many of the games.

No, they don't.

Only a very small number of the mainline games are considered bad. It is not "many."

Megaman X, Megaman 2 and 3, and Megaman X3 are really the only games considered great.

This is the most wild part about your OP. You're trying to form an argument about a series that you clearly do not know enough about. What I just quoted is indisputably false.

X3 is one of the more divisive games in the series. Some love it, some think it's a weaker entry. Most recognize it's at still a good game at least.

And you somehow not only left out X4 and Mega Man 9 (both of which are almost universally considered to be great games) but didn't even mention a single Zero or Legends game (both of which have entries that are widely looked as not only some of the best games in the entire Mega Man franchise but some of the best games on their respective consoles).

Megaman X6 and X7 are seen as sonic 06 level of disappointments

X6 is a bad game.

it is not seen as a Sonic 06 level of disappointment. That is hyperbolic.

Not many games in general are looked at with that level of well deserved hate, to be honest.

X7 is truly terrible so you got that right I guess.

m0therzer0 · Sep 17, 2021

andymcc said:
Mechanically, no, it was a market response. But you don't see how the Crash Bandicoot character design is at all influenced by Sonic?

There are several games that are mechanically influenced (Socket, Bubsy, Rocket Knight Adventure to some degree, etc.) by Sonic though.

Sonic was a system-seller and I honestly can't think of a furry animal mascot with attitude before he came out. Edgy animal mascots were everywhere after that.

Awakened · Sep 17, 2021

Servbot24 said:
I know Sonic was popular but I don't see how it informed the design of DKC or Crash.

When they first came up with Crash's concept, they called it "Sonic's Ass" game:

We called it the "Sonic's Ass" game. And it was born from the question: what would a 3D CAG be like? Well, we thought, you'd spend a lot of time looking at "Sonic's Ass." Aside from the difficulties of identifying with a character only viewed in posterior, it seemed cool. But we worried about the camera, dizziness, and the player's ability to judge depth – more on that later.

Making Crash Bandicoot – part 1

In the summer of 1994 Naughty Dog, Inc. was still a two-man company, myself and my longtime partner Jason Rubin. Over the preceding eight years, we had published six games as a lean and mean duo, b…

all-things-andy-gavin.com

NLCPRESIDENT · Sep 17, 2021

Xater said:

Lol

PancakeFlip · Sep 17, 2021

EllipsisBreak said:
There was a Twitter thread that made the rounds about three months ago, arguing that Castlevania's "popularity" is a much later invention and not historical. Something like, history was rewritten by Youtubers and the rest of us go along with it because we're too young to know what really happened (LOL). This was based on the fact that the game doesn't appear in a Wikipedia list of top selling NES games (which is because the actual sales number is unknown). The fact that the games are extremely common, and thus had to have sold well, was ignored entirely.

The takeaway here is that some people have absolutely no clue about what was popular before their time, and why.

This made me break down in laughter. Do people not realize that gaming wasn't as mainstream in the past as it is today?

mael · Sep 17, 2021

PancakeFlip said:
This made me break down in laughter. Do people not realize that gaming wasn't as mainstream in the past as it is today?

It wasn't but it doesn't mean it wasn't known either.
Again, in the US, NES managed to into 33% of households.
Like pick any houses and you had a NES inside.
There is a reason they tried to make movies out of popular gaming franchises.

AgeEighty · Sep 17, 2021

EllipsisBreak said:
There was a Twitter thread that made the rounds about three months ago, arguing that Castlevania's "popularity" is a much later invention and not historical. Something like, history was rewritten by Youtubers and the rest of us go along with it because we're too young to know what really happened (LOL). This was based on the fact that the game doesn't appear in a Wikipedia list of top selling NES games (which is because the actual sales number is unknown). The fact that the games are extremely common, and thus had to have sold well, was ignored entirely.

The takeaway here is that some people have absolutely no clue about what was popular before their time, and why.

Yeah. I mean, they made a cartoon series about the top (non-Mario, non-Zelda) Nintendo mascots, and both Mega Man and Simon Belmont were chosen. Both series were crazy popular. I remember kids in my school talking about both constantly.

But sure, some Zoomer trolls are gonna come along and tell us what really happened before they were born.

Mega Man is one of the most solid and consistently great platforming series ever made.

Craymond · Sep 17, 2021

Megaman backs up it's cred. There are very few truly bad Megamans, most of them are good with some okay.
Not buying what you're selling at all, OP.

Ghostfacedon · Sep 17, 2021

What'd the Blue Bomber ever do to you? Lol. Lozjam Wily must be your full name. :)

Megaman is a good series. More hits than misses, imo.

ByWatterson · Sep 17, 2021

Fully endorsed.

They're all just a slog to play.

PancakeFlip · Sep 17, 2021

mael said:
It wasn't but it doesn't mean it wasn't known either.
Again, in the US, NES managed to into 33% of households.
Like pick any houses and you had a NES inside.
There is a reason they tried to make movies out of popular gaming franchises.

Yeah I know, I'm just saying that I got the impression that younger people think games had to be in this mega-hyped, mind-share, YouTube/streamer/influencer fueled state to be worth anything, when it didn't work like that back then.

ZeoVGM · Sep 17, 2021

ByWatterson said:
Fully endorsed.

They're all just a slog to play.

lol

I don't think I've ever seen a person in my history on the internet claim that Mega Man X "is a slog to play."

Tavernade · Sep 17, 2021

With a small number of exceptions, the only negative to Mega Man games tends to be that they get kind of samey. And they get that way because the core loop is really good and they just repeat it over and over.

PancakeFlip · Sep 17, 2021

ZeoVGM said:
lol

I don't think I've ever seen a person in my history on the internet claim that Mega Man X "is a slog to play."

Especially considering you can beat them in one sitting.

AgeEighty · Sep 17, 2021

PancakeFlip said:
Yeah I know, I'm just saying that I got the impression that younger people think games had to be in this mega-hyped, mind-share, YouTube/streamer/influencer fueled state to be worth anything, when it didn't work like that back then.

It's true. Games didn't even really have advertised release dates back in those days. They just showed up sporadically at stores. I remember finding Super Mario Bros. 3 at the store one day and getting my mom to get it for me. It was a total surprise. I'd known it was coming out some time soon but no one had any idea when, and when I showed it to my friends they were all wowed. I was the envy of my 7th grade class. New popular games were like mythic creatures in the wild.

mael · Sep 17, 2021

PancakeFlip said:
Yeah I know, I'm just saying that I got the impression that younger people think games had to be in this mega-hyped, mind-share, YouTube/streamer/influencer fueled state to be worth anything, when it didn't work like that back then.

Things were absolutely slower.
Games also weren't as frontloaded as they were now.
A game released in July was still relevant in the December of the next year.
Magazines certainly helped for the more enthusiast crowd but otherwise WoM was pretty much king back then (that and advertising, cannot be stressed enough).

It's super funny when you think that there's a contingent of people who will claim that the "blacksheeps" of popular franchises were not really well liked too.
like smb2 or zelda 2.
These games were so sought after that Nintendo simply couldn't supply enough to meet the demand!

Nintendo had massive supply shortages even in the 1980s

Think its hard to find an NES Mini? Try finding Super Mario Bros. 2 back in the 1980s.

www.tweaktown.com

AgeEighty said:
It's true. Games didn't even really have advertised release dates back in those days. I remember finding Super Mario Bros. 3 at the store one day and getting my mom to get it for me. It was a total surprise. I'd known it was coming out some time soon but no one had any idea when, and when I showed it to my friends they were all wowed. I was the envy of my 7th grade class. New popular games were like mythic creatures in the wild.

And then you realize that SMB3 was THE game that had the more defined release date because at least a good number of people were aware that this game was going to come.
Otherwise? magazines would help you know that that specific game was released (and that was also the way to know the release schedules too).
In Europe especially, release dates were rather complicated to get if you were part of the public.

Basileus777 · Sep 17, 2021

Man the OP is on a roll putting out these bait threads.

Cheesebu · Sep 17, 2021

It doesn't seem like you know much about the series based on what you've written here, OP. You also seem less than interested in interacting with your own thread, probably because your OP is dumb as shit and you don't want to defend it.

TheLastOfPizzaCrUSt · Sep 17, 2021

Best MM games:
MM3,4,5,6,8
MMX1,3,4
MMLEGENDS
MMLEGENDS2!
MM GB 3-4-5

junk · Sep 17, 2021

I can't roll my eyes far back enough into my head.

Cheesebu · Sep 17, 2021

Basileus777 said:
Man the OP is on a roll putting out these bait threads.

Lmao, yea I don't pay much attention to who is posting what, but a look at the thread history and I can see several threads I've taken part in that all had a dumb as rocks premise and a laughable OP post.

Jane · Sep 17, 2021

On the contrary, the later games in the series (Zero and ZX) don't get enough recognition. For some reason a lot of people just forget the series kept going after X and (imo) kept getting even better. Prob cause they were on a handheld I guess.

Servbot24 · Sep 17, 2021

Jane said:
On the contrary, the later games in the series (Zero and ZX) don't get enough recognition. For some reason a lot of people just forget the series kept going after X and (imo) kept getting even better. Prob cause they were on a handheld I guess.

Yeah I think there is honestly a lot of bias against handheld games. People don't take them as seriously as console games.

ZeoVGM · Sep 17, 2021

Basileus777 said:
Man the OP is on a roll putting out these bait threads.

And it looks like he bounced from the thread hours ago.

Berordn · Sep 17, 2021

op is wrong

but X3 is still one of the good ones. the only place where it really falters is soundtrack, but it's still got bangers like blizzard buffalo

x2 is bad tho

ZeoVGM · Sep 17, 2021

Berordn said:
op is wrong

but X3 is still one of the good ones. the only place where it really falters is soundtrack, but it's still got bangers like blizzard buffalo

x2 is bad tho

I was with you because X3 is in fact a good game but then I got to the spoiler and now I have to dismiss everything you said.

RM8 · Sep 17, 2021

Lol what is this. I would argue there's no bad entry in the classic series (even if I don't love 8 myself).

Xiaomi · Sep 17, 2021

They're just tight games with cool ideas. MM9 and 10 are also up there as far as the NES style games go, MM11 is also fun, Zero and ZX are decent as well. The only ones I would consider just not fun from the sidescrolling series are X6-8 and Network Transmission.

MrDoctor · Sep 17, 2021

Basileus777 said:
Man the OP is on a roll putting out these bait threads.

was willing to give the benefit of the doubt just once, but this thread has taken op from a 95% troll in my mind to an assured 100% troll. era takes bait way too easily

andymcc · Sep 17, 2021

Servbot24 said:
Yeah I think there is honestly a lot of bias against handheld games. People don't take them as seriously as console games.

lmao rich coming from a dude downplaying the influence of 16-bit Sonic

Servbot24 · Sep 17, 2021

andymcc said:
lmao rich coming from a dude downplaying the influence of 16-bit Sonic

How are those two topics even related?

andymcc · Sep 17, 2021

Servbot24 said:
How are those two topics even related?

you're playing down the very evident influence of something despite facts?

Servbot24 · Sep 17, 2021

andymcc said:
you're playing down the very evident influence of something despite facts?

I don't think I downplayed anything, I asked a pretty honest question. And I learned that the great power of Sonic's influence over the gaming industry resulted in… a "Sonic's ass" reference.

andymcc · Sep 17, 2021

Servbot24 said:
I don't think I downplayed anything, I asked a pretty honest question. And I learned that the great power of Sonic's influence over the gaming industry resulted in… a "Sonic's ass" reference.

Mega man games haven't even touched the influence of Sonic? Read your posts? You're derisive as hell and act like sn authoritative over stuff that you shouldn't?

Weiss · Sep 17, 2021

andymcc said:
Mega man games haven't even touched the influence of Sonic? Read your posts? You're derisive as hell and act like sn authoritative over stuff that you shouldn't?

why are you even arguing about this

MZZ · Sep 17, 2021

What the hell. Megaman does not need this blasphemy

Gameplay might not be as modern anymore but I find it very enjoyable still. It won't be a 10+ hour experience of modern gaming but it doesn't have to be.

It was designed with some arcade sensibilities which is by nature required players to have a sort of familiarity with enemy positions, enemy behavior and map layout (Sounds like a certain from software game perhaps?) and you can even get by not having too much familiarization if you are skilled enough.

For me, the wonder you get from playing games is having choices on which levels and bosses to tackle and figuring out the enemy order and getting a new power you can play with each boss you defeat.

The amazing character designs with each robot master and interesting stages, and the EFFIN MUSIC.

I haven't even gotten to how good the spinoff games are (even Megaman X6, I don't consider as bad). The X series is one of the all time greats for me that I can pick it up and have fun with it anytime.

I can write so much about what makes Megaman great for me. Possibly because, of how I grew up with it but as the world changed around me, the core gameplay stays the same and familiar. Something of a warm feeling you get. Call it nostalgia if you must but it doesn't take away anything from it.

I recognize the bad parts but all the good things about it outweigh all of it.

And all this basis on sales defines what makes a good game is stupid thing to stand on.

Berordn · Sep 17, 2021

ZeoVGM said:
I was with you because X3 is in fact a good game but then I got to the spoiler and now I have to dismiss everything you said.

look into your heart, you know it to be true

the only actually bad X games are X6 and X7, but i'd still call X2 the weakest of the SNES titles

andymcc · Sep 17, 2021

Weiss said:
why are you even arguing about this

long history of playing up ahistorical shit?

TheLastOfPizzaCrUSt · Sep 17, 2021

Berordn said:
look into your heart, you know it to be true

the only actually bad X games are X6 and X7, but i'd still call X2 the weakest of the SNES titles

ths is true. weakest mmx snes.

X1
X3
X2

PepsimanVsJoe · Sep 17, 2021

If the Megaman series is bad, then let's just go ahead and say that every video game ever made is bad.

ShinobiBk · Sep 17, 2021

andymcc said:
Mechanically, no, it was a market response. But you don't see how the Crash Bandicoot character design is at all influenced by Sonic?

There are several games that are mechanically influenced (Socket, Bubsy, Rocket Knight Adventure to some degree, etc.) by Sonic though.

100% Sonic spawned like a million imitators back then. Even though Sonic himself was created as a response to Mario.
So many mascot platformers with "attitude"

Basically like how Mortal Kombat spawned a million imitators even if it was created as a direct response to Street Fighter II

mael · Sep 17, 2021

Servbot24 said:
I don't think I downplayed anything, I asked a pretty honest question. And I learned that the great power of Sonic's influence over the gaming industry resulted in… a "Sonic's ass" reference.

Wow you must have missed a lot of games in the 90s.

chiller · Sep 17, 2021

mael said:
Double Dragon 2 was released in PAL BEFORE Double Dragon for example.
so like if you got a release in the US, it could take over a year to get it in PAL for no real reasons sometimes.

christ
AND you guys got those lazy conversions that just slowed the game 0.83333...% to fit PAL without any adjustment to the game logic whatsoever.

mael said:
I still have that box of Megaman Zero 2!
It came with a copy of Megaman Zero 1 in my case.
Yeah :/
And god the box arts were so baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
Also no voice acting for any Megaman ZX games because fuck you that's why.

Wait, the Zero 2 box came with both Zero 2 and the first game inside?

Also, you're not missing much from the English ZX Advent dub at least, I can tell you that much.

RF Switch · Sep 18, 2021

Megaman X was worth the $79.99 I paid then and would be worth it now

Cyclonesweep · Sep 18, 2021

I mean like....Metroid is a relatively low sale game too so I don't think that means all that much.

ZeoVGM · Sep 18, 2021

I don't think the OP is coming back.

PeakPointMatrix · Sep 18, 2021

Lozjam said:
Is it?
Sonic is lambasted for pretty much a single game, being so particularly bad that it went through everything. Sonic 06 is bad. But the rest of the mainline sonic games, even though they have significant problems, are not seen that bad. Even Forces was seen as frustratingly mediocre.

Megaman has many more clunkers than even Sonic.
Megaman X7 is seen as one of the worst PS2 games.
Megaman X6 is also equally lambasted for its horrendous level design.
Megaman GB is seen as a particularly bad game too.
Even X8 is considered just average.

How convenient you ignore the Legends/Battle Network/ZX series, all critically well received. I don't think anyone ever argued that these were mega-sellers (which determining "deserved recognition" off of is already nonsense anyway). The reality is that the franchise split into a lot of different sub-series over time, meaning Mega Man being "great" is a lot of different things for a lot of different people over the span of almost two decades, which is special in and of itself. There's a reason the death of the franchise stirred as much turmoil as it did 10 years ago. Who are you to challenge what this franchise means to people?

Your thread already predicates on a faulty premise, so in the flood of counter arguments I doubt you'll come back or even answer, but please think more carefully before making such absurd claims for your next thread. For someone who supposedly composes for videogames, you sure do seem out of touch with them.

Combichristoffersen · Sep 18, 2021

Tbh I never found the NES Mega Man games to be anything special (in fact I think they kinda sucked). But MM was an early video game mascot, so lots of people have fond memories of enjoying the games, and of MM as a character, so there you go.

Is the series overrated? Subjectively I'd say it's overrated as fuck, but objectively I don't think it's as much overrated as MM fans believing it has been more important to video games/the platformer genre than what it actually has.

Digital Dinosaur · Sep 18, 2021

Okay so... I kind of agree.

Mega Man suffers from the Sonic problem - the early 8/16-bit games are classics, but the publisher could not figure out what to do with the series after that. As a result it is wildly inconsistent, just all over the place.

But I think Mega Man and its cast of characters, as a setting, universe, and aesthetic deserve all the fame and appreciation they've received. They're foundational to gaming culture and they're good on their own terms.

Oreiller · Sep 18, 2021

That's such a bad OP. I do think Megaman is probably overrated but that's still an awful take.

Megaman really gets too much undeserving recogniton

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