Last of us 2 director responds to internet hate

[NinjaScooter]

And there isn't any nuance anymore. Either something is fucking amazing or completely trash. No middle ground. This is more of societal problem though.

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I think thats a problem with social media (and it bleeds over or stems from message boards, depending on your perpsective) which is that the entire dynamic is based around attention (and likes). You don't get that unless you are hyperbolic, one way or another. This is especially true on twitter where you have the added dynamic that "fans" are able to interact on the same level as media and creators. Is Neil Druckmann or anyone else going to notice me if I give a reasoned, nuanced criticism on his game? Maybe. Maybe not. But I bet if I call him trash and his game trash he will! Social media is a race to the bottom.

 

[Potato Mage]

"This is a story about hate." Lol that quote is aging well.

 

[ElephantShell]

"This is a story about hate." Lol.

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This comment ended up being taken a bit too literally for some, it seems.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Created a thread for Gita Jackson since it seems to have been swept under the radar

Gita Jackson of VICE thinks certain form of hate and bigotry from the internet are okay because others have it worse

Maddy Myers of polygon posted some tweets referencing This is incredibly tone deaf considering the death threats ND has been getting. She then deleted the tweets and Neil responded thanking her. To give context - the team has been getting bombarded with death threats and anti semitism...

www.resetera.com

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Not a idea but truth is i think you know what will happen .

 

[NinjaScooter]

Created a thread for Gita Jackson since it seems to have been swept under the radar

Gita Jackson of VICE thinks certain form of hate and bigotry from the internet are okay because others have it worse

Maddy Myers of polygon posted some tweets referencing This is incredibly tone deaf considering the death threats ND has been getting. She then deleted the tweets and Neil responded thanking her. To give context - the team has been getting bombarded with death threats and anti semitism...

www.resetera.com

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Nobody is actually interested in discussing these things.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Not a idea but truth is i think you know what will happen .

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Thread only ended up 20 posts long but I got around 5 ignores out of it.

 

[Viale]

Thread only ended up 20 posts long but I got around 5 ignores out of it.

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Silver linings, I suppose.

That thread died super quick with a lot of "lol, OP working PR." somewhat surprised considering the response to those garbage comments in this thread.

 

[JigglesBunny]

Did Ellie's sexuality yield this toxic bullshit after the Left Behind DLC dropped? It seems like the alt-right targeting of the game and the insane, vile hate has come from the counter-liberalism movement that's gained steam since the Fuck Face in Chief took over whereas the response to Ellie's sexuality in Left Behind was almost universally supportive and positive.

Spoiler: The Last of Us: Part II spoilers

I know that the bigots have had a field day with Lev as well as Abby's physique but I've seen so much shit being slung about Ellie and Dina that just feels so sudden when her lesbian identity was established back in the original game. There's also a part of me that wonders if Joel's death is spurring these petulant, whiny reactions as well.

 

[Toumari]

Created a thread for Gita Jackson since it seems to have been swept under the radar

Gita Jackson of VICE thinks certain form of hate and bigotry from the internet are okay because others have it worse

Maddy Myers of polygon posted some tweets referencing This is incredibly tone deaf considering the death threats ND has been getting. She then deleted the tweets and Neil responded thanking her. To give context - the team has been getting bombarded with death threats and anti semitism...

www.resetera.com

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That thread wasn't going to last with that title. Also doesn't surprise me people working in the 'Naughty Dog PR' angle the moment they saw the tweets featured Neil Druckmann.

 

[SilkySm00th]

Laura Bailey is a fuckin national treasure and these fucking useless idiots spewing hate at ACTORS for a videogame they have to hate to feel like strong secure dudebros online is fucking pathetic.

I've lost patience with the few people at work who were parroting this same shit.
"I just don't want politics in my games..."
"What politics then? What are the politics in this game you disagree with ...."
"Well i mean it's just always 'girl rah rah rah so strong' and now they HAVE to make a trans person in the game becau-"
"Cool, you're just a bigot then. Bye."

Fuck all of these people. Completely.

 

[arcadepc]

Having seen and played a good part of the first part of TLOU, it is difficult to cast aside all emotional investment and I'd understand the rage of the players of the first game with what happens to Joel and Ellie in the sequel. Similarly to how some other players were enraged with Death Stranding losing console exclusivity. Characters felt so real, especially when combined with drama, violence, occasional humour and interactivity.

ND and games of this size and caliber often walk on dangerous ground since the creators know fully well what kind of people they target with their game

 

[DmckPower]

Last of Us 2 is one of the best games I've ever played, and I fucking loved every stressful, terrifying, heart-wrenching moment of it. I cried with these characters.

I'm just blown away by the discourse surrounding this game, to be honest. Confused by the hate and vitriol. Like I expect a certain level of vitriol from the expected sources surrounding the inclusion of certain story elements and character identities and relationships (trying not to spoil any details here), but I feel like we are seeing...just blind hate from even unexpected sources and the general gaming populace. It's gross, and it feels gross, and I'm disappointed in a lot of people.

Additionally, it's like some people didn't want the story to even progress in any way. They wanted the sequel to retread the same ground, the same relationships, the same...game as the first. What they wanted was fan-service, their ideas of what would make the next chapter "good". I'm glad we got what we got, because it was impactful and painful and you just don't always get that experience in this medium yet.

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I feel like this story draws out very logical consequences based on the events of the first game.

The game does it in an extremely careful and detailed way.

I mean it is all about the world altering consequences that stem from Joel's decision.

 

[twisted heart]

Created a thread for Gita Jackson since it seems to have been swept under the radar

Gita Jackson of VICE thinks certain form of hate and bigotry from the internet are okay because others have it worse

Maddy Myers of polygon posted some tweets referencing This is incredibly tone deaf considering the death threats ND has been getting. She then deleted the tweets and Neil responded thanking her. To give context - the team has been getting bombarded with death threats and anti semitism...

www.resetera.com

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Honestly I don't even know why you bothered making that thread the mods are a bunch of fucking cowards and we're just gonna close it down because that's easier for them rather than actually dealing with it.

 

[Zutroy]

A lot of 'fandoms' have a dark, ugly side to them. I think it comes from a kind of immaturity and certainly something I've seen quite prevalent even on this forum.

Maybe it's just because my personality lacks a sense of passion, but I just can't fathom how some people have an extreme attachment to pieces of entertainment (be that games, movies or sport) that causes them to act so violently be that verbal or physical.

 

[Deleted member 49182]

It really drives me up the wall when people try to paint "i don't agree with/like what this character is doing" as criticism. Just because a narrative doesn't follow the plot points you think it should doesnt mean its bad, especially when motivations are clearly presented and make sense in the context of the game's universe.

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This a thousand times!

 

[Deleted member 60295]

That thread wasn't going to last with that title. Also doesn't surprise me people working in the 'Naughty Dog PR' angle the moment they saw the tweets featured Neil Druckmann.

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Yeah. Full disclosure: I didn't realize that the OP was motivated by a perceived lack of discussion about Gita's comments in the other thread. I wish they had made this more clear in the new thread, because that was the first TLOU2 thread on this site that I've read in a long while. (I've been largely staying away from TLOU2 discussion, because of how incredibly toxic it's been. I'm sure you all can understand. And from what I've just seen, the discourse around this game is as bad as ever, so I think I'm gonna continue to stay out of it.)

 

[Adamska]

Why not? It will be hard to see alt right shit on your twitter feed attacking you every day. I know I would lose my shit.

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Which is why the ones spewing hate should drop out of social media, not their targets.

 

[Dalek]

the reaction online to this game is nearly pushing me out of the gaming community altogether. just don't have it in me to see so much hate around this hobby anymore. wipes all the fun out. seeing bi representation brings me joy. the hate that representation has brought reminds me of my parents negative reaction to when I came out and the bigotry I have personally experienced. its fuckin sad and I think I am too sensitive to roll with the punches much longer.

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I feel the same way entirely. I enjoy playing games-but there's literally nothing about the "gaming community" that appeals to me in the slightest. It seems like everyone has an agenda and isn't interested in real discussion. All you have to do is mention The words "Naughty Dog" and some people here starting foaming at the mouth in anger.

 

[Rainy]

The best part of trying to defend Naughty Dog or Neil is the inevitable "why are you defending a company" response. Wow you really showed me! Let's not discuss it further at all!

 

[deepFlaw]

Created a thread for Gita Jackson since it seems to have been swept under the radar

Gita Jackson of VICE thinks certain form of hate and bigotry from the internet are okay because others have it worse

Maddy Myers of polygon posted some tweets referencing This is incredibly tone deaf considering the death threats ND has been getting. She then deleted the tweets and Neil responded thanking her. To give context - the team has been getting bombarded with death threats and anti semitism...

www.resetera.com

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This was deservedly locked but you also are completely misrepresenting what she said. You are free to disagree with it, but she was not saying others have it worse so hate and bigotry is ok. She was saying he was talking about harassment as if it was a novel concept to someone who is extremely well aware of what harassment is.

I've spent enough time on this stuff today as is, so here's my posts from the other thread happening today.

This is a pretty bad derail that I hope just gets removed, but since I kinda doubt it'll happen before others pick up on it: it is worth saying that Maddy and Gita were both literal Gamergate targets. Actually, were also pre-Gamergate targets by similar groups, and not to mention targets of a group of people who were theoretically against Gamergate but didn't like that Maddy/Gita/their friends weren't sufficiently that this group kept just screenshotting + riling up gamergaters while they had 0 skin in the game themselves. They have directly experienced online harassment for years and years and years.

Of course they is also obviously that they are women, and in Gita's case a woman of color, and so targeted by generically angry gamers besides, but... yeah. Don't misunderstand the context of her saying that.

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I don't want to drag this out and Gita's tweet could have been worded better, but I would think the more reasonable reading is "we are very well aware of what getting death threats is like". Not "but other people also get death threats!". It wasn't whataboutism.

You could also spend the time checking to see if she elaborated on it, which I just did for you, and she did (and you're free to disagree with too).

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Feel free to disagree with her but at least put some time into making sure you even know what she said or who she and Maddy are.

 

[Neece]

Gamgergate put my interest in the gaming community in a coma, but yeah at this point I think my interest in this community is dead now.

 

[Deleted member 1003]

Man I've never seen so much written about a videogame in years...

Fun fact: I've played the game for 20 hours now and I'm still waiting for most things people have been raging about, lmao.
Everything has been blown out of proportion in a way even i didn't expect!

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I just finished it today and I found nothing to be outraged by. Nothing felt forced. I love it.

 

[Deleted member 57361]

Created a thread for Gita Jackson since it seems to have been swept under the radar

Gita Jackson of VICE thinks certain form of hate and bigotry from the internet are okay because others have it worse

Maddy Myers of polygon posted some tweets referencing This is incredibly tone deaf considering the death threats ND has been getting. She then deleted the tweets and Neil responded thanking her. To give context - the team has been getting bombarded with death threats and anti semitism...

www.resetera.com

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Why the fuck this was closed? Neil is a developer and he was attacked, this wasn't a random tweet. Is Era going to support all devs or just devs that push some kind on narrative?

 

[Kaah]

I'm still waiting for Jim Sterling to make a video about the internet hate Druckmann and his team received since the leaks. For such a big mouth he has been weirdly silent about this, like a lot of game journalist.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

So wait, people are going after Laura for her character? Are these idiots serious?
All she did was play a character. She isn't the character, she plays the character.

What a mess. I feel bad for Laura. She doesn't deserve any of this.

 

[Dalek]

Why the fuck this was closed? Neil is a developer and he was attacked, this wasn't a random tweet. Is Era going to support all devs or just devs that push some kind on narrative?

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Look at the responses it got. People aren't interested in nuance or discussion. They're interested in dismissal.

 

[Mezoly]

I'm still waiting for Jim Sterling to make a video about the internet hate Druckmann and his team received since the leaks. For such a big mouth he has been weirdly silent about this, like a lot of game journalist.

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The harrasment of Neil and Naughty Dog devs has been normalized for some weird reason.

 

[WordsintheWater]

This was deservedly locked but you also are completely misrepresenting what she said. You are free to disagree with it, but she was not saying others have it worse so hate and bigotry is ok. She was saying he was talking about harassment as if it was a novel concept to someone who is extremely well aware of what harassment is.

I've spent enough time on this stuff today as is, so here's my posts from the other thread happening today.




Feel free to disagree with her but at least put some time into making sure you even know what she said or who she and Maddy are.

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Appreciate the context honestly, since Maddy knows exactly how cruel these assholes can be, she should have thought about her post some more before tweeting it.

 

[stefanomusilli96]

Why the fuck this was closed? Neil is a developer and he was attacked, this wasn't a random tweet. Is Era going to support all devs or just devs that push some kind on narrative?

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I legitimately don't understand what that tweet was implying.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

Last of Us 2 is one of the best games I've ever played, and I fucking loved every stressful, terrifying, heart-wrenching moment of it. I cried with these characters.

I'm just blown away by the discourse surrounding this game, to be honest. Confused by the hate and vitriol. Like I expect a certain level of vitriol from the expected sources surrounding the inclusion of certain story elements and character identities and relationships (trying not to spoil any details here), but I feel like we are seeing...just blind hate from even unexpected sources and the general gaming populace. It's gross, and it feels gross, and I'm disappointed in a lot of people.

Additionally, it's like some people didn't want the story to even progress in any way. They wanted the sequel to retread the same ground, the same relationships, the same...game as the first. What they wanted was fan-service, their ideas of what would make the next chapter "good". I'm glad we got what we got, because it was impactful and painful and you just don't always get that experience in this medium yet.

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Perfect post. Agree with everything you said.

 

[FullNelson]

The harrasment of Neil and Naughty Dog devs has been normalized for some weird reason.

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It speaks volumes that this thread is not gaining as much traction as the one about Vice and Sony PR

 

[sora87]

The harrasment of Neil and Naughty Dog devs has been normalized for some weird reason.

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Yep. Didn't expect to see that here of all places.

 

[Nightwing123]

The harassment they are getting is disgusting.

 

[CrocoDuck]

What I notice a lot with fandoms (not just video games) is that there are certain "expectations" that they have expecting to play out in a story with characters and events.

Spoiler: Major Spoilers for TLOU2

Yes, Joel was expected to die, but not in the way it was played out in the game as some have criticized. They want characters to complete the "hero's arc" or in order to be a memorable character, there has to be some form of fleshed out character development throughout the story that completes its cycle. To them, there HAS to be some form of payoff or closure for these characters and if there isn't you get the reactions that you are seeing in regards to TLOU2.

So what if Joel dies early in the game? If Ellie doesn't win out in the end and becomes lost.Things happen. And while video games, literature, movies and film are all obviously fictional based, real life isn't a character arc. Sometimes the protagonist doesn't win out in the end. Sometimes a prominent character dies and there's no resolution.

While I didn't particularly liked the narrative overall (it was good, but not as great as TLOU1), what ND did was extremely commendable and ballsy. Showing us the perspective of both characters shows us how we indiscriminately killed off characters without even knowing their backstory (the characters you kill in Ellie's campaign are given context and development in Abby's) was an awesome move to make.

edit: to add on in regards to the topic, it is extremely disturbing and disgusting with what's being hurled at towards Neil and ND regarding this game. People take this shit way too seriously.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'm still waiting for Jim Sterling to make a video about the internet hate Druckmann and his team received since the leaks. For such a big mouth he has been weirdly silent about this, like a lot of game journalist.

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Yep the industry does have a dark sides but it seem that most people don't want to talk about gamers that are also a big problem .

 

[Deleted member 4262]

I didn't know Reggie had a podcast. Time to listen. Also, fuck these losers.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

This comment ended up being taken a bit too literally for some, it seems.

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"Let the past die"

It's literally Last Jedi all over again

 

[Astandahl]

I'm still waiting for Jim Sterling to make a video about the internet hate Druckmann and his team received since the leaks. For such a big mouth he has been weirdly silent about this, like a lot of game journalist.

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Why? Making a video against ND and Neil / TLOU would generate much more money.

 

[Rainy]

I'm still waiting for Jim Sterling to make a video about the internet hate Druckmann and his team received since the leaks. For such a big mouth he has been weirdly silent about this, like a lot of game journalist.

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lmao he's never gonna make a whole video about that. He knows where he'll get his views and likes.

 

[SunBroDave]

The most ironic thing of all is that its Naughty Dog of all people who are getting hit hard from even the "woke" audience. Like, here's a studio that spent an insane amount of time and money to make a game about empathy that includes one of if not the most diverse cast of characters in video game history, and for some reason this is the team of people you want to crucify because their game is "too violent"? It's absurd to me.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

lmao he's never gonna make a whole video about that. He knows where he'll get his views and likes.

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Yes. That's exactly why Jim just made an entire episode calling out how the industry mistreats people. For views and likes. You got him.

 

[Uthred]

Yes. That's exactly why Jim just made an entire episode calling out how the industry mistreats people. For views and likes. You got him.

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Yeah because it certainly isnt a hot topic at the moment. It was totally out of nowhere.

 

[stefanomusilli96]

It's not like Jim has an obligation to make a video about it. His videos are usually about the game industry doing something bad, not a bunch of alt right trolls harrassing developers. He mentioned the harassment and review bombing briefly in his Jimquisition episode on TLOU2, it's not like he didn't touch the subject at all.

 

[B.O.O.M.]

This was deservedly locked but you also are completely misrepresenting what she said. You are free to disagree with it, but she was not saying others have it worse so hate and bigotry is ok. She was saying he was talking about harassment as if it was a novel concept to someone who is extremely well aware of what harassment is.

I've spent enough time on this stuff today as is, so here's my posts from the other thread happening today.

Feel free to disagree with her but at least put some time into making sure you even know what she said or who she and Maddy are.

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Nothing you said changes jack. All you said is well they are victims too. How is that a justification? IF they understand what being a victim is like then they should show empathy and understanding. It IS worded in a way to get into a suffering Olympics bs. Maddy didn't really apologize..that reply of hers was a non-apology in its finest form. What she said was shitty. Gita inserted herself into a conversation that has nothing to do with her and nothing in her words sound like she is empathizing with Neil or any of the ND/actors that are being harassed.

Let's not sugarcoat this nonsense and sweep it under the rug. it's ugly behavior.

and it wasn't deservedly locked either (regarding the thread). But era is never consistent regarding any moderation surrounding threads based on tweets anyways.

 

[Jawbreaker]

This was deservedly locked but you also are completely misrepresenting what she said. You are free to disagree with it, but she was not saying others have it worse so hate and bigotry is ok. She was saying he was talking about harassment as if it was a novel concept to someone who is extremely well aware of what harassment is.

I've spent enough time on this stuff today as is, so here's my posts from the other thread happening today.




Feel free to disagree with her but at least put some time into making sure you even know what she said or who she and Maddy are.

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Yes, they should have known better before making those posts. They were both tone deaf and shitty.

My reaction to a Jewish person getting constant death threats and anti-semitic hate isn't to post what either of them did, rather one of empathy and understanding.

 

[Desmond]

Honestly I don't even know why you bothered making that thread the mods are a bunch of fucking cowards and we're just gonna close it down because that's easier for them rather than actually dealing with it.

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Thread 'ran it's course' I guess.

It's kind of annoying that the harassment towards devs has not got as much footfall in threads as everything else

 

[Cantaim]

It sold over 4 million already so it already a major success.

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And? I said I wanted to show my support lol. Wasn't claiming it don't have a spectacular launch haha

 

[SilkySm00th]

This was deservedly locked but you also are completely misrepresenting what she said. You are free to disagree with it, but she was not saying others have it worse so hate and bigotry is ok. She was saying he was talking about harassment as if it was a novel concept to someone who is extremely well aware of what harassment is.

I've spent enough time on this stuff today as is, so here's my posts from the other thread happening today.




Feel free to disagree with her but at least put some time into making sure you even know what she said or who she and Maddy are.

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I'm failing to understand how this would help her angle here. She's experience harassment, hate, death threats and all the other horrible shit in the past. Should fuckin know better than to try and cut dude down for ... whatever reason ... rather than pile on with all the people her views/lifestyle completely oppose? Like wtf... how hard is it to say "Yah - we know what getting death threats is like and it sure as fuck sucks all the fun out of friendly jokes real quick. Sorry bout that post and no hard feelings."
How fuckin hard is it for people to just not be shitlords, like wtf.

 

[Deleted member 923]

I just want to know what the official ERA stance is. I thought we were supposed to be better on here, but the last however many months have shown that's not the case. Are we cool with harassment? Because what's been happening on here recently is just that.

 

[shaneo632]

Making a piece of pop culture a central part of your personal identity is always unhealthy and terrible. People care more about this (excellent) game than I care about like, anyone important to me in real life.