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May 30, 2018
1,255
So 5 pages in and the only counters to OP are that :

Kojima is perverted (irrelevant)

And that volgin scene ( I personally don't mind it, in fact I liked it but I can see why people hate it)

Kojima really is playing chess while the rest of devs play checkers
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,411
Completely agree, no one else has the magnitude of cutscenes that are engrained in my head like the MGS games, even Death Stranding first shot of Lindsay Wagner shown is also super engrained.

Also Kojima thread shitters are the worst, the same people coming in with the same jokes and same "omg how do people worship him" comments.
 

Asriel

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,471
So 5 pages in and the only counters to OP are that :

Kojima is perverted (irrelevant)

And that volgin scene ( I personally don't mind it, in fact I liked it but I can see why people hate it)

Kojima really is playing chess while the rest of devs play checkers

There were several other counters pointed out in this thread.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,666
Not enough talk about God of War in here. The camera work is mighty impressive when following the action scenes and really giving an intimate feel to most encounters. Plus it also has the no cuts/single take rule that Kojima had in MGSV only taken to another extreme (even for game play and transitions).

6415867-blades%20of%20chaos.gif


EverlastingMeagerIndochinahogdeer-size_restricted.gif



And when it comes to action we still have the various DMC5 cutscenes:

3434342342.gif


(this one doesn't have cuts like that in the actual game, taken from a trailer)

The intro is insane too.

tenor.gif
 
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Kurtikeya

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,515
I feel like the Cuaron influence on MGSV's cinematography is farily obvious, and it's been demonstrated many times over in this very thread, but an influence that goes under-discussed despite the fact that I think it's key to understanding what Kojima was trying to do with the whole of MGSV is Gus Van Sant's Gerry.

Gerry is a film about two men named Gerry (played by Matt Damon and Casey Affleck) getting lost in the desert over the course of a couple of days. It looks like this.



Long, unbroken takes, little to no dialogue from its main characters, all set in a sparse desert landscape. Sounds pretty familiar, right? Gonna throw another scene in.



The thing about Gerry, however, is that Gus Van Sant drew inspiration from two sources. One is the films of hungarian director Bela Tarr. The other is Tomb Raider for the PS1. Once you realize that, it kinda clicks into place. Most of what you see in a videogame is long takes with little to no cuts from the action. It's experiential more than it is visual. We talk about movies a lot, but really, this is Kojima returning to video games, trying to make it all a single contiguous experience. What this enables him to do as far as the high-level story of Venom Snake and Big Boss the OP kinda already went into, but what it also does is, as much as possible, erasing the boundary between player and character. And that has been Kojima's pursuit for most of his directing career, from making you raise the volume of your TV in Snatcher to looking for a codec frequency on the back of a CD case, to everything else he's done. That's the whole reason why he's so fascinating to consider as an auteur, with all the caveats that such a framing entails but that's really another topic all on its own.


Excellent post. Whether or not Kojima's methods are effective is up to the player (personally they're too effortfully eccentric, and I have a high threshold for that) but there's no denying there is a lot of agency in them.
 

Sparks

Senior Games Artist
Verified
Dec 10, 2018
2,886
Los Angeles
The visuals are very pretty, but it's also quite static camera wise, it feels like I'm watching an amusement park ride rather than a scene.
If you look into Amusement park design, the amount of complicated composition and subtle scene navigation devices is insanely complex. It's completely different than film (which is what you were probably referring to), but I want to make sure good theme-park rides get their credit.

(Been studying theme-park rides a lot and thinking about making the switch sometime...)
 

DonnieTC

Member
Apr 10, 2019
2,365
Speaking of good cinematography...I've always been impressed with Remedy. They have a very distinct, unique style that really stands out (I especially love their use of colors and contrasting muted and bright colors to really enhance a scene). I've been playing Control lately and that style is very much there! Some Alan Wake shots (sorry for low quality):
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
So 5 pages in and the only counters to OP are that :

Kojima is perverted (irrelevant)

And that volgin scene ( I personally don't mind it, in fact I liked it but I can see why people hate it)

Kojima really is playing chess while the rest of devs play checkers
The truth is really somewhere in the middle. He has directed some really good scenes, and his trailers are usually great (although I'm not a fan of any in Death Stranding) but it's so easy to look in any of his games and find a number of mediocre cut scenes.

Dude needs a good editor, or at least someone to call him out on his bullshit sometimes.
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
So 5 pages in and the only counters to OP are that :

Kojima is perverted (irrelevant)

And that volgin scene ( I personally don't mind it, in fact I liked it but I can see why people hate it)

Kojima really is playing chess while the rest of devs play checkers
listen up folks, Hideo GOATjima is just laying down facts .
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,104
Staring you right in the face? Kojima isn't actually subtle about it. It's actually funny how people complain about Kojima being so overt yet can't pick up on some pretty clear things he does.

More examples:

giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif



By the way, the whole shaky/third person camera is clearly meant to convey the feeling of V being watched as when we learn the "Truth" the camera switches to traditional editing to establish that this is the real Big Boss. No one follows him around, no shakiness but a steady camera as BB is firm and in control.








This is Era, I expected maybe 5% to actually read the OP.




Funny, I made this thread because I thought the Cinematography in Control was quite bad. Cool shots/setups don't make for good cinematography. Like, the simple way conversations are filmed is horrid.

This makes me appreciate MGSV even more,I didn't had noticed all these details,about the twist,I love it,even more now thanks to you.
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,188
So 5 pages in and the only counters to OP are that :

Kojima is perverted (irrelevant)

And that volgin scene ( I personally don't mind it, in fact I liked it but I can see why people hate it)

Kojima really is playing chess while the rest of devs play checkers

So, you're not the only one noticing a pattern. But, this is par for the course for discussion here. I expect shitposting, hell I welcome it a certain amount. I just wish there was a better balance between the shitposting and acutal discussion.

The first page started off right with an actual discussion of game cinematography, then the shitposters showed up.
 
Aug 25, 2019
380

The last few seconds of that gun materializing is so good!

Nah, Mass Effect series has consistent amazing cinematography, even ME1.


Oh wow, this is from the dlc right?? I never bought it, makes me dislike dlc story content....because I would have loved to experience this doing my couple playthroughs. (I'm not trying to hate on dlc or anything just would have added more to my experience, I seriously didn't know about this content).
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,590
Germany
Detroit has a 5 minute cinematic one-take that you actually control near the end in an entirely optional scenario. Probably the most impressive cinematography I've seen in a game and it was shot by an actual DoP! Wish there was more of that, felt awesome to play
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401

Andromeda

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,864
Indeed, he should make movies... exclusively. I kid, I kid...I loved MGS5 (the game part, not its cinematography).
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Nice try, but no. Not even close. Nothing tops this opening comparing it to MGS series. The shots, the setup, the music and introduction to the city is fucking amazing. And that writing, whew.


Can you point to where in that video there was comparable cinematography to MGS series' cut-scenes? Watched most of it and couldn't find anything even close to how well Kojima frames most scenes.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,648
This must be what inspired the worst long take in The Revenant, Kojima you magnificent genius:


Ya know, I'm totally okay with the whole 1-shot thing, I just think that looks jacked because of the slow pans. Might have been harder to get the shots lined up and choreograph people getting into place on time but super clean quick pans could've worked as opposed to cuts.
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,401
Yes, he's amazing. Which is one reason why Metal Gear Solid 5, while having fun mechanics, absolutely was a disappointment. The story and cutscenes were the main draw for that series. 5 has almost nothing like that.
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,188
Thread bump because Death Stranding is out. And HOLY SHIT, Kojima is just a master, leagues beyond everyone else when it comes to cinematography. Now, I wasn't a fan of DS actual story, but the art direction and cinematography is on the highest level. It even puts a lot of Hollywood blockbusters to shame.

I'm on mobile so can't post gifs or cutscenes, but someone else can provide those receipts. Other developers need to take fucking note. For example, I'm almost done with Jedi Fallen Order and the cinematography there is so basic and uninteresting. You compare it to TLJ in terms of cinematography and there is a WIDE gulf. Whereas, DS sits right up there.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,805
Thread bump because Death Stranding is out. And HOLY SHIT, Kojima is just a master, leagues beyond everyone else when it comes to cinematography. Now, I wasn't a fan of DS actual story, but the art direction and cinematography is on the highest level. It even puts a lot of Hollywood blockbusters to shame.

I'm on mobile so can't post gifs or cutscenes, but someone else can provide those receipts. Other developers need to take fucking note. For example, I'm almost done with Jedi Fallen Order and the cinematography there is so basic and uninteresting. You compare it to TLJ in terms of cinematography and there is a WIDE gulf. Whereas, DS sits right up there.
Funny enough the Wolfenstein games have been really good about this too.

That said while games are still lacking in expressions obv that final scene with Die-Hardman, Tommie Earl Jenkins NAILED the acting. Seeing Reedus get nominated for best acting at TGA instead of him is a travesty.
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,590
Germany
Yeah good cinematography is the one good trait Kojima picked up by watching and being influenced by movies to the degree he is. I feel he already peaked with the first major cutscene we saw from the trailers with the corpse disposal guy, that cutscene is just masterfully directed in every way with beautiful cinematography. But there were some other great scenes near the end as well.

Some other devs get fairly close, but Kojima definitely employs the most varied of techniques.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,385
Thread bump because Death Stranding is out. And HOLY SHIT, Kojima is just a master, leagues beyond everyone else when it comes to cinematography. Now, I wasn't a fan of DS actual story, but the art direction and cinematography is on the highest level. It even puts a lot of Hollywood blockbusters to shame.

I'm on mobile so can't post gifs or cutscenes, but someone else can provide those receipts. Other developers need to take fucking note. For example, I'm almost done with Jedi Fallen Order and the cinematography there is so basic and uninteresting. You compare it to TLJ in terms of cinematography and there is a WIDE gulf. Whereas, DS sits right up there.
Yeah no question. Say what you will about Death Stranding as a game, but I don't think the cinematic competency can be questioned.
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
I can't counter an opinion, but I don't see nothing extraordinary on first page examples. He's good tho
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Make this an MGS3 thread or go. MGS3 has perfect cinematography only rivaled by Mass Effect 2 and David Cage games.

 

En-ou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,840
I think you need to play more games. Not ahead of anything. FromSoftware, Blizzard, SM etc do better.
 

pikachief

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,571
Yea im not a fan of the writing or most of the acting in DS but the camera work is pretty good. I'd say its as good as GoW.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,264
Far ahead... really?

I like the man and I think he is a brilliant director.. but calling him far ahead is waaaaaay overrating him.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,811
Argentina
I don't see it honestly, I see he is just as good as the best which are a couple of studios at this point. I mean, he's fantastic but "so far ahead"? can't see it.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,385
I think you need to play more games. Not ahead of anything. FromSoftware, Blizzard, SM etc do better.
I play every FROM game and their cinematography is nowhere close to Death Stranding. They are better games though. Only Blizzard games I've played are Overwatch and Diablo 3 but those are also nowhere close.
 

Prison_mike

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,438
Not even a Kojima fan but man, you're dead on with this one. I can't say he was the first (he may have been) but damn, he certainly made it a "thing". I am in awe in some those early MGS videos.. cool thread OP
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
I play every FROM game and their cinematography is nowhere close to Death Stranding. They are better games though. Only Blizzard games I've played are Overwatch and Diablo 3 but those are also nowhere close.
Yeah. I'm a huge From fanboy at this point, but they are not known for their cinematography. Kinda invalidates the point if you bring them as an example.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
the last guardian has fantastic cinematography and frequently retains some semblance of playability during most of its "cutscenes" too
 

Mexen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,932
I'm glad Kojima is in the video game industry and not the film industry, because it allows him much more flexibility in terms of cinematography. He can try some truly wild shit and not catch heat for it, which really lets him push the medium. MGS3 blew my mind in 2004 - he's obviously gained a slew of skills since then, but it remains his most complete cinematic package IMO.
Selfish as this is, I absolutely agree!