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Is Microsoft's attitude toward VR dictated by a lack of technical foresight or financial reward - or both?
- Thread starter Deleted member 30005
- Start date
I think the people that are stating that they're no killer apps, need to think about what that would even be. What would they personally class as the killer app? What would it take to get there? and how likely that is? Otherwise it's just meaningless handwaving...
For example, a killer app for someone actively interested in VR (Astro Bot possibly?) isn't even the same thing as a killer app for someone fairly ambivalent, or even adverse to VR (who knows 🤷🏾♂️).
Anyway, I guarantee MS jumps in at some point next gen. For now tho, they have to fix a few things. Imo obviously.
You still need a peripheral to get the VR experience which is why most developers are still reluctant to support it. It's the whole chicken and egg thing. You need content to sell the peripheral.
Woiuldn't a killer app be something that would make VR more mainstream?
I'm sorry but all those games you just mentioned sound dreadful. The VR games just aren't doing it for me at all. And I'm a bit out of the loop but aren't they planning on allowing other headsets to work on their console?
Some of the comments ppl are making you can tell are tainted by fanboyism and the others just plain ignorance. Statements like nothing "worthwhile" and no "killer app" is highly subjective and bs. You have one of the highest rated games this year and the highest rated VR game on PSVR. I wish everybody could try Astrobot as it is one of the best games imo this generation and is just so great overall and no! It would not be the same if it wasnt in VR, it would strip the game of most of its charm and cool details. Firewall, Farpoint, Beat Saber, Resi Evil VR, among many others show VR is great and more than ready. All peripherals and systems can be better so tht goes without saying.
What I'm sure happened is tht OG Xbox is so underpowered compared to even the og ps4 tht it wouldn't make sense to come out with VR in Xbox right now just for the X as it would fragment consumers and only be selling to a smaller gaming install base. So financially tht definitely wouldn't make sense at all. I mean you could probably get something working on OG Xbox but it wouldn't be worth it as what OG ps4 is doing is like the least ppl would want from VR and of course you still have complaints with graphics.
What I'm sure happened is tht OG Xbox is so underpowered compared to even the og ps4 tht it wouldn't make sense to come out with VR in Xbox right now just for the X as it would fragment consumers and only be selling to a smaller gaming install base. So financially tht definitely wouldn't make sense at all. I mean you could probably get something working on OG Xbox but it wouldn't be worth it as what OG ps4 is doing is like the least ppl would want from VR and of course you still have complaints with graphics.
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Thing is though, you shouldn't be taking offense to a person for actually answering the question correctly. If they had asked him to name a bunch of awesome VR titles and you got that response, sure.
Also, Ybarra didn't expect a killer app in under 3 years, he wasn't the one who posed the question. That's Cliffy B for you, no idea where he was going with this because it's not like he wouldn't have already known the answer.
Sony wasn't involved in Tetris Effect or The Persistence.
Sony's 2018 VR lineup was Astrobot, Bravo Team, Deracine, The Inpatient, Firewall, and Wipeout Omega Collection.
This was probably the Xbox One's worst year, and they had Forza Horizon 4, Sea of Thieves, and State of Decay 2.
I mean, you're welcome to your opinion, but I'd say Forza Horizon 4 alone is a better experience than all those VR games, except Astrobot, combined. In terms of scope I would say Forza Horizon 4 is actually bigger than all of those games combined, so I really don't think it's far to say that PSVR has better support than the Xbox One does.
On the face of it, there is literally nothing to determine whether he was being facitious or not. And I surely have seen much worse behavior than that, so it's not as if it's hard to believe that his behavior was genuine. Poe's law, and all that.- Dude calls Ybarra a salty little man over playful banter.
- I am the one over reacting.
That is the same argument I have with PSVR, it also has to play nice with the original system and I believe that is why GT Sport is so limited and why other games like Project Cars 2 did not support it.
So now the question is will PSVR work well with PS5 or will everyone need to get PSVR 2? The first thing they need to do is get rid of the dreadful Move controllers and update that first but the room scale did not seem very enticing, that's why I went with Oculus and the PC thinking it might be more future proof.
General killer apps are socialization, telepresence, and screen simulation. But those all require further refinement on the hardware.
A killer app in game terms, well the obvious answer is a long-sustaining, well-designed AAA budget VRMMORPG. But it's too early for that.
Therefore, a killer app that pushes a million+ unit sales is going to have to be a well-known franchise with a AAA budget that also happens to be a groundbreaking game. In other words, what Valve are working on, and specifically Half Life VR.
It doesn't make sense for Microsoft to invest in Xbox VR this gen when they are already investing heavily in PCVR and AR.
You didn't just judge the games based off their names, right? I mean even judging from videos is a big mistake. These games are practically universally loved, some are GOTY contenders across several gaming journalists. I know for one that the NPD analyst guy considers Astro Bot his game of the generation, and I've seen plenty of people say Beat Saber is the most fun thing they've ever done in their whole life.
No one knows yet what Microsoft plan to do in terms of exact headsets eventually getting support.
It's Twitter, he kept it clean, and he was quick to clap back all good form in my eyes. Companies and people like him don't have to be robots on social media
The sigh is what sells the idea that Ybarra isn't aware of how slow killer apps actually work for emerging technologies. He simply isn't aware about that fact.
So now the question is will PSVR work well with PS5 or will everyone need to get PSVR 2? The first thing they need to do is get rid of the dreadful Move controllers and update that first but the room scale did not seem very enticing, that's why I went with Oculus and the PC thinking it might be more future proof.[/QUOTE]
Yeah probably. I also hear alot of complaints about the move joysticks mainly from the PC community but i cant really form an opinion since I dont have a PC or other motion controllers to compare to. The move for me works good but damn I look forward to getting PC quality type motion controllers and hopefully some room scale type stuff given the PC community feedback (hopefully). I can only imagine how much immersion it adds.
Imo Sony needs to make PSVR forward compatible and they can easily get the double dippers like me as long as they make PSVR2 Wireless and up the resolution in games with better motion controllers.
Yeah probably. I also hear alot of complaints about the move joysticks mainly from the PC community but i cant really form an opinion since I dont have a PC or other motion controllers to compare to. The move for me works good but damn I look forward to getting PC quality type motion controllers and hopefully some room scale type stuff given the PC community feedback (hopefully). I can only imagine how much immersion it adds.
Imo Sony needs to make PSVR forward compatible and they can easily get the double dippers like me as long as they make PSVR2 Wireless and up the resolution in games with better motion controllers.
Which has been plentiful this year. We just don't have a killer app. But luckily there are potential candidates on the way now.
Honestly I'm still shocked Sony didn't do an overhauled PS Home 2.0 or something like that for PSVR, it honestly would've been crazy; as-is it would've been great but a few more refined ideas tossed in and that could've been a massive hit IMO. If they had something like that included out of the box with a host of experiences baked in with a lot more polish, it would've been wild.
I agree there's no killer app. I disagree that the tech isn't still a worthwhile experience for the right people.
I think MS is playing it safe. They probably are more concerned about pushing consoles to try and better compete with Sony. Sony is way ahead so they're focusing on other ventures like VR. Doesn't help MS got burned by focusing on Kinect, doubt they're willing to jump into VR before they think it's viable.
I think MS is playing it safe. They probably are more concerned about pushing consoles to try and better compete with Sony. Sony is way ahead so they're focusing on other ventures like VR. Doesn't help MS got burned by focusing on Kinect, doubt they're willing to jump into VR before they think it's viable.
They can still do it for PS5. Social VR really needs body tracking, eye-tracking, and face tracking to reach killer app status. We need to be able to see every emotion that we see in real life, like this: https://gfycat.com/IncredibleShoddyCowrie
We also need 360 videos to always be 6DoF. People won't do virtual E3 visits that often unless they can move inside the video for maximum comfort and presence. That should be available during the next generation as well, so PS5 is a good time for them to do something like that.
User Banned (3 days): console wars, history of similar behaviour
You could say that as many people care about "killer apps" for VR as those that care about something like the cross-play feature, but it was enough for this Corporate Vice President to tweet an article calling out Sony for "not listening", and then goes on to ignore those under his tweet calling out how Microsoft still forces you to pay to play F2P games on Xbox. That is "listening", I suppose. On to why what Ybarra said was questionable and opportunistic from the start:
He says there's no killer app for VR (recommending Google Earth over actual great games providing innovation is as disingenuous as it gets), but only days before he was retweeting deals on Windows headsets because he thinks it's worth people buying. These are the same double standards you can expect from a fanboy, but look at who tweeted out these things. He calls himself a "gamer first", but you know... that's probably not strictly true and when it comes to certain competing platforms.
He says there's no killer app for VR (recommending Google Earth over actual great games providing innovation is as disingenuous as it gets), but only days before he was retweeting deals on Windows headsets because he thinks it's worth people buying. These are the same double standards you can expect from a fanboy, but look at who tweeted out these things. He calls himself a "gamer first", but you know... that's probably not strictly true and when it comes to certain competing platforms.
The Op wants to argue Microsofts Attitude towards VR based on a Tweet by one employee of the company?
As far as I know they work in their R&D department on VR related stuff and have partnerships with Hardware companys on Mixed Reality Headsets. What is the problem exactly? They don't have their own Headset and make VR games?
As far as I know they work in their R&D department on VR related stuff and have partnerships with Hardware companys on Mixed Reality Headsets. What is the problem exactly? They don't have their own Headset and make VR games?
This also. I agree. They have a plan and I am sure it's based on numbers and other investments they have in VR ala PcVR as you mentioned. I do believe the next Xbox will have VR support whether itll be entwined with its PC counterpart (as in tht headset can be used on the next Xbox and PC) will be interesting to see, I think they will go tht route.
That was a joke! It was actually a funny joke! It blows my mind that people are legitimately bothered by it
Ultimately it just requires the ability to represent virtual humans beyond the uncanny valley along with much smaller headsets. Get those two right, and people will love to socialize in VR all over the world.
I don't have a XB1, but a PS4 and PSVR, but I'm not too surprised they aren't doing VR.
They did Kinect on the 360, which was a huge success (I'm especially fond of Dance Evolution by Konami), but then with XB1 it just backfired like crazy and the Xbox division been playing safe ever since, and gained a lot of goodwill in turn. They won't do a thing with VR until they are absolutely sure it's not a fad like the Kinect.
They did Kinect on the 360, which was a huge success (I'm especially fond of Dance Evolution by Konami), but then with XB1 it just backfired like crazy and the Xbox division been playing safe ever since, and gained a lot of goodwill in turn. They won't do a thing with VR until they are absolutely sure it's not a fad like the Kinect.
Ignoring that this thread feels like it's was created to start fanboy shit, MS is invested in the VR/AR space on PC. Spencer has been clear about why he doesn't think VR is ready for Xbox, I'm sure it not being financially a good idea for them right now plays into it. They have other areas that are far bigger focuses for them right now, in existing (MS studios) and new areas (XCloud.)
😂 LOL
If you can't see the humor in that you may be a little too invested in PlayStation. Lighten up.
Kinect 2.0 was rejected by people because it was aimed at casual gamers and this audience had moved on to tablets and phones.
VR is aimed at the usual core audience.
If Xbox execs dont understand their business enough to realize that and make that distinction I would be very disappointed and have very little hope for Xbox when it comes to making the right decisions for the future.
But I also dont think its too late to jump on the VR bandwagon.
Either by supporting existing headsets on Xbox in the future or by going all in when second gen VR hits: Wireless, 4k displays, foveated rendering.
To become a mass market product VR will need all that at a pricepoint around 200$.
Or he does but doesn't think they are game changers. I played all of them and they're fun but still in a novelty way. The more VR games i play the less i care about it.
The fact that people on an enthusiast gaming forum have to constantly go around trying to convince people that VR is "worth it" says it all about the current mass market appeal of the technology.
Sony has shipped around 80 million PS4s, yet has only managed to sell about 4 million PSVRs. Is it profitable for them? Sure. Should Microsoft bother investing millions into a niche market? Probably not. They're doing their own research with Windows VR and HoloLens, but they're not going to invest in software and marketing when the mass market potential isn't there yet. They would rather let the other companies go through the growing pains for them.
As for the whole killer app debate, I think Microsoft more than anyone should understand the importance. Xbox pretty much owes its life to a single game.
Sony has shipped around 80 million PS4s, yet has only managed to sell about 4 million PSVRs. Is it profitable for them? Sure. Should Microsoft bother investing millions into a niche market? Probably not. They're doing their own research with Windows VR and HoloLens, but they're not going to invest in software and marketing when the mass market potential isn't there yet. They would rather let the other companies go through the growing pains for them.
As for the whole killer app debate, I think Microsoft more than anyone should understand the importance. Xbox pretty much owes its life to a single game.
Not focusing on VR is attractive to me as a consumer. It's always the 15 minutes of the press conference that I tune out for. Maybe one day the technology will be there, but I'm not sure I want VR even if it were lightweight and wireless. I just don't want to game with a thing over my head.
Yes I have tried VR. I played Virtuality way back in the 90s and my friend has a PSVR. The PSVR is noticeably low resolution and the tracking gets 'off' after a while. It's just not there yet.
Yes I have tried VR. I played Virtuality way back in the 90s and my friend has a PSVR. The PSVR is noticeably low resolution and the tracking gets 'off' after a while. It's just not there yet.
They are objectively game changers just by way of how much they change how gaming functions. Lone Echo / Echo VR in particular is a game that is unique in all ~50 years of gaming. How often can you say a game is so unique that nothing has ever been remotely like it, ever?
I currently don't care for VR and most people feel the same. And please, no, stop the "once you tried it"-narrative. I tied it several times with PSVR and to me it just looks bad, the tech has at least to get better.
I don't see VR being so big next gen that this will be a disadvantage for Microsoft, in the end it will be a peripheral for a console that's also quite pricey. It will have its audience, it will have great games for sure and it will generate lots of threads on era but I cannot see it becoming mainstream.
I don't see VR being so big next gen that this will be a disadvantage for Microsoft, in the end it will be a peripheral for a console that's also quite pricey. It will have its audience, it will have great games for sure and it will generate lots of threads on era but I cannot see it becoming mainstream.
That is a response I haven't seen in a long, long time. I can't wait for you to bust out the "I can has cheezburger" memes...
I just never really see Sony promote anything or anybody talking about it I guess. I guess I've just been sleeping on it because I figured all these VR games have just been third party indies. Maybe I was just burned by the PSP, Vita, and Move as far as long term first party support goes so I just haven't really dedicated any effort to paying attention.
I've been looking at everything released since my initial post, and AstroBot certainly seems great, but not anything I'd want to buy a PSVR for(and this is coming from a mega platformer fan).
I still don't think the technology is advanced enough(and cheap enough) for it to catch on and make people prefer to play that way over a traditional gaming method.
I have Plastation Move but not PSVR but after using the Oculus Touch it would be very hard to use those.
Plentiful? Even the scarcity of the big third party publishers still can't get it fully into games like Ace Combat. Is this another example of the PS4 not being powerful enough and is it coming to PC? I'm not sure what you mean by plentiful when talking about major publishers, including Sony.
Right decisions? We have no idea how profitable PSVR has been for Sony and Nintendo isn't involved either.
Lol, PSVR is non existent in the realms of gaming and it has no perception problems like the Xbox One has. Even with no perception problems, PSVR sells less than the Vita when it was in circulation.
The next generation will probably end in 8-9 years. That is plenty of time for VR to grow; Facebook are expecting a billion users by then. They're going to have to address it next generation, but likely not right at the start.
The Vita was built upon many handhelds that came before. It's a late generation device. VR is in it's first generation. Expectations are completely different because no one knows what VR is yet aside from a small group. Everyone (or many people) knew what a handheld console was when Vita launched.
I dont follow memes. Is this supposed to be funny?
Serious question.
Yeah, I think eventually VR will carve out its own market and show some solid sales. Once it has all the features you mentioned at the price point you mentioned. I imagine we're still 3-10 years out from that though. I don't get why people think Microsoft should rush to enter what is currently a small market. What does VR offer to Microsoft at the moment and what does Microsoft offer to VR? Give it until at least next generation and then maybe it will be worth it for then to launch in the VR space.
Moss, Firewall Zero Hour, Astro Bot, Borderlands 2, Wipeout, Tetris Effect, Sprint Vector, Beat Saber, The Persistence. There has been plenty of great games released on PSVR this year.
