Is Batman Returns a good movie or a bad movie?

[UltraMagnus]

It's a good bad movie.

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Pretty much this.

If the internet/social media was around then like it was now, it would've been a total shit show because the first Batman was so popular and the build-up for Batman Returns was massive.

There's more good stuff now that I appreciate as an adult, but the whole third act is so completely non-sensical it's hard to take it seriously.

 

[Praetorpwj]

I loved it as a kid (well as an 18 year old actually) and saw it a LOT that summer but there is quite a bit that kind of irritates today.

Batman is an outright psycho from the very first in this. He's not doing his job like in the first film where he patrols, he's just sat comatose until weird shit goes down which seems to be the only thing that interests him now. In the first film he only kills once he figures Joker = Napier, here he's just OTT killing from the off in ways that would give Zack Snyder sweats.

Gordon and the cops are peak useless ("what are you waiting for the signal!" instead of doing their jobs).

A lot of stuff just happens for its own sake rather than naturally. Oh Penguin and Batman have a stand-off before Selina blows up the store. Now for some reason he's going to 'escape' by umbrella copter etc.

Still a lot to love and it's almost a counter culture summer family film but it only works if you completely detach it from any semblance of reality or common sense and assume everyone in Gotham is an idiot. It's not a sequel to the first, it's barely a Batman film, it's an elseworlds fairy tale.

 

[gitrektali]

Well it has Danny DeVito, so of course it's amazing

 

[Temp_User]

I love this movie.

The story was often gimmicky and non-sensical but dear god, did they ever nail the dialogue and character interactions. I dont remember the hows and the why Catwoman is allying with the Penguin but man their interactions in front of that birdcage was extremely memorable.

 

[Deleted member 27246]

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A lot of my fetishes originate from this (and Julie Newmars Catwoman too) :P

Awesome movie btw. Still love it.

 

[Aldo]

I re-watched it recently and I think it's a well directed movie with a mediocre script. Much better and more interesting then the first one, it's a shame the third one was never produced.

 

[gilded_Pb]

Loved it. It took major liberties with the material but I loved burtons style. It's a shame we never got a 3rd from him.

 

[Hiraeth]

It's great. Stunning visually too.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

The intersection of Bruce and Selina's romance (very lonely, disturbed people finding warmth in their shared duality), the Penguin's anger and resentment over his parents' abandonment, and Shreck's relationship with his idiot son (wherein he finds the one shred of selflessness in his otherwise irredeemable soul) is something no other Batman movie has even approached, let alone surpassed. The desperate human need for family is the very core of Batman, and this movie is the only one that really, really shows it.

Returns is bizarre, gross, nonsensical, and preposterous. But its emotional core is so solid and absolute, and the score and visual design so harmonious and persuasive in service of that core, that it stomps every other Batman film into the fucking dirt.

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This is a great way of putting it.

Batman Returns is quite a mess as far as traditional blockbusters go... but there's so much about the film I genuinely adore about it too. I see the film as being less of a traditional Batman film and more as a strange, hallucinatory Christmas dreamscape from the mind of Tim Burton that just so happens to have Batman characters in it.

Also on a semi-related note, I really hope we get some scenes like this in Matt Reeves' upcoming Batman film with Robert Pattinson and whoever winds up being his new Alfred. Just moments where Bruce and Alfred are chilling in the Bat-Cave together, going over the clues on the case he's trying to solve and arguing a bit over what they're each seeing.



Aaand just the brief, atmospheric bit where Batman is driving around Gotham at night, patrolling the city. That would be another great thing to see more of in the next Batman film.

 

[misho8723]

It's great .. maybe it's not true to the comic Batman, but as a Batman movie I really think it's great

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

It's enjoyable movie at least.

I love the cold Christmas atmosphere.

 

[Xagarath]

Best Batman film because the character works best when completely removed from reality, plus the dualism aspects and the way each villain represents a different aspect give it a surprising amount of depth.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Almost as bad as Catwoman. Fucking unwatchable.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member 1627]

I love this movie. I don't think anyone in my lifetime will ever top Michael Keaton as Batman.

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Wooooord.

 

[Vitet]

I love this movie. I don't think anyone in my lifetime will ever top Michael Keaton as Batman.

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It inspired an amazing game on the SNES:

And with its imagery and music, it's one of the best intros of the 16-bit era:

 

[Scarecrow]

As far as the 90s bat films go, I liked it third after 89 and Forever.

 

[mnemonicj]

It is one of my favorite movies.
The soundtrack used to haunt me as a kid, but I slowly started appreciating it growing up.
The scene, music, and ambience when the Penguin crashes the ball still makes me feel in a way.

I admit, the writing is cheesy.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Yeah, wasn't Max Shreck supposed to be Harvey Dent and the end of the film would've led into him becoming Two-Face in the next movie?

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Yes, and the story makes much more sense if you think of that character as a crooked DA instead of a crooked city planner in terms of his political motivations.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

It is one of my favorite movies.
The soundtrack used to haunt me as a kid, but I slowly started appreciating it growing up.
The scene, music, and ambience when the Penguin crashes the ball still makes me feel in a way.

I admit, the writing is cheesy.

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That's the odd thing though. The writing is anything but cheesy in a lot of the character interactions. Bruce and Selina's dance scene, for instance, is genuinely compelling to watch. But the story itself is cheesy. I feel like Batman Returns is a film that's far more about its moments than it is a cohesive story, which is a valid criticism to be made against it. And yet... those moments are often top of the line IMO.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Yes, and the story makes much more sense if you think of that character as a crooked DA instead of a crooked city planner in terms of his political motivations.

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What exactly did Shrek do?

 

[Snake Eater]

It's a classic

 

[Chained Prometheus]

What exactly did Shrek do?

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Basically he spends the movie trying to exploit the political turmoil in Gotham so he can build a power plant that will secretly drain the city of its energy and power so he can essentially have a monopoly on the energy in Gotham. It's all about the Benjamins for Shreck.

The only thing is that while a lot of the plot beats makes more sense if it's Harvey instead of Shreck, it still feels at odds for the characterization provided in Batman 89 where Harvey was presented the whole way through as a genuine, well-intending District Attorney. Assuming Harvey would be starting off Batman Returns as a corrupt lawyer had he been featured in it, of course, rather than a progressive descent into madness.

It's a classic

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Agreed.

 

[Kromeo]

I'm mixed on it but ultimately I just don't like Michael Keaton as Batman, or more to the point I don't like him as Bruce Wayne

 

[ClivePwned]

Going back to revisit, BR has some stuff I like. I think Michelle Pfeiffer is a good catwoman, and Dany Devito does a decent Penguin. The story and plot for this is just all over the place and when it's done, you realise Batman is hardly in it. It's also the movie that sets up the fact that keeping it to one main villain with henchmen works best. It's just that hardly anyone ever learned this and they kept doing these villain teamups in subsequent Batman (and later Spiderman films)

BR for all of its many problems, is at least watchable. Those two Shumacher followups are abysmal. Nothing in the Snyderverse (which is mostly not great) is as terrible and poorly thought out than the Shumacherverse. If there is such a thing as a Shumacherverse, please send Thanos to visit.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Basically he spends the movie trying to exploit the political turmoil in Gotham so he can build a power plant that will secretly drain the city of its energy and power so he can essentially have a monopoly on the energy in Gotham. It's all about the Benjamins for Shreck.

The only thing is that while a lot of the plot beats makes more sense if it's Harvey instead of Shreck, it still feels at odds for the characterization provided in Batman 89 where Harvey was presented the whole way through as a genuine, well-intending District Attorney. Assuming Harvey would be starting off Batman Returns as a corrupt lawyer had he been featured in it, of course, rather than a progressive descent into madness.



Agreed.

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Supposedly Harvey's descent into Two-Face would've been gradual

 

[Chained Prometheus]

Supposedly Harvey's descent into Two-Face would've been gradual

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That's good to hear! I have no reason to expect it'll ever happen, but it'd be nice to see DC Comics release a graphic novel adaptation of that original plan for Batman Returns so fans could see how Harvey's descent would have gone down.

 

[Torpedo Vegas]

It is the only Batman with Christopher Walken.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Supposedly, there were plans for Vicki Vale to return as well.

 

[Sweeney Swift]

Good compared to Dark Knight Rises, bad compared to Dark Knight

I love Nolan, but in all the trilogy's only not forgettable because of Ledger's performance making Dark Knight a can't-miss

 

[mnemonicj]

That's the odd thing though. The writing is anything but cheesy in a lot of the character interactions. Bruce and Selina's dance scene, for instance, is genuinely compelling to watch. But the story itself is cheesy. I feel like Batman Returns is a film that's far more about its moments than it is a cohesive story, which is a valid criticism to be made against it. And yet... those moments are often top of the line IMO.

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Yes, to clarify that scene in particular makes me feel in a way that I can't describe, in a good way though. I appreciate how many people in the thread have expressed their feelings towards this scene.

 

[Patitoloco]

The movie has a penguin funeral. And penguins with bombs. And a kids Batmobile to remote control the real one, driven by DeVito. And a giant duck elevator. Penguin's plan is to kidnapp all Gotham's children, taking them in a train with wheels.

If this had any other name except Tim Burton in it, it would be seen equally as bad as Forever (which I like way more) and B&R (which is absolutely terrible).

And I say all of this actually liking the movie. But it's as campy as the others, the only thing is that it has a little blood and some sex jokes.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Good

 

[manchego obfuscator]

It's a bad Batman movie but a good Tim Burton movie.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

It's a very good, bad movie. It's a guilty pleasure kind of film.

 

[Sephzilla]

Batman Returns is great.

The Bruce/Selina scene at the masquerade dance as they both realize who each other is and how they react to it is a super underrated scene.

 

[Blackpuppy]

"Bruce Wayne?... Why are you dressed up like Batman??"

I'll echo other people's sentiments in saying that it's flawed but it definitely has its moments.

I was lucky to catch a 35mm showing of this film a couple of years ago and watching this uninterrupted on a big screen in a dark room led me to notice a lot of stuff I never noticed before and I appreciated what Burton was trying to do, but it doesn't always come together as it should.

For example, I appreciated Burton twisting Christmas traditions by making the Penguin be a grotesque Santa Claus/King Herod type (he's fat and making a list of children ... but only for kidnapping the first son of each family).

 

[Sephzilla]

Honestly one of my favorite things about Batman Returns is that there's very little in the way of an overarching villain scheme. It's essentially Penguin trying to complete various minor take over schemes and being thwarted by Batman at every pass. And I love how Penguin's plans start off as very elaborate schemes and devolve into more crude and straight forward evil stuff as he becomes more and more frustrated.

Penguin: "I'm going to become mayor, frame Batman, and take over the city through politics!"
Batman: "Yeah no, I have dirt on you"
Penguin: "Well.... arg! I'm going to kidnap all the first born sons in Gotham and murder them all!"
Batman: "Nope, stopped your goons already"
Penguin: "Well I'm gonna teamup with Catwoman!"
Catwoman: "Ugh you're gross"
Penguin: "AAAAAAAARGH PENGUINS WITH MOTHER FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHERS"
Batman: "Turned them around"
Penguin: "FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU"

 

[Chained Prometheus]

Batman Returns is great.

The Bruce/Selina scene at the masquerade dance as they both realize who each other is and how they react to it is a super underrated scene.

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Yeah, there is so much to love about that scene. Great bit of acting from Keaton and Pfeiffer, as it gives a lot of insight to both Bruce and Selina as characters in that moment. If we're lucky at all, Reeves will be able to bring something of a similar quality to his own iterations of Bruce and Selina in his upcoming trilogy.

Honestly one of my favorite things about Batman Returns is that there's very little in the way of an overarching villain scheme. It's essentially Penguin trying to complete various minor take over schemes and being thwarted by Batman at every pass. And I love how Penguin's plans start off as very elaborate schemes and devolve into more crude and straight forward evil stuff as he becomes more and more frustrated.

Penguin: "I'm going to become mayor, frame Batman, and take over the city through politics!"
Batman: "Yeah no, I have dirt on you"
Penguin: "Well.... arg! I'm going to kidnap all the first born sons in Gotham and murder them all!"
Batman: "Nope, stopped your goons already"
Penguin: "Well I'm gonna teamup with Catwoman!"
Catwoman: "Ugh you're gross"
Penguin: "AAAAAAAARGH PENGUINS WITH MOTHER FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHERS"
Batman: "Turned them around"
Penguin: "FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU"

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Yeah, this is another little detail I love about the film. Not very accurate to how Penguin is in the comics or video games from what I remember, but it's just fun to see Penguin get screwed over at every turn and progressively become more fed up with the world (and Batman).

 

[Deleted member 6173]

I just wanted to mention that the penguin pallbearers that brought The Penguin into river to die was awesome and hilarious at the same time.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

I just wanted to mention that the penguin pallbearers that brought The Penguin into river to die was awesome and hilarious at the same time.

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And strangely touching in a way.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

For the record, it's goofy as all hell, but I really do love the scene where Penguin takes control of the Batmobile.

 

[louiedog]

It's goofy, in good ways, but I don't think it's very good even though it's pretty fun. It's miles better than the two that came after it.

It could have used some Partyman

 

[Deleted member 31923]

I think it's pretty great. Very dark and I love the style and look of the characters. Burton at his best. It was too dark for general audiences and lost the commercial appeal of the first film. In other words, it's a film that would not get made today. And of course, the reaction was Batman Forever and Batman Forever, which were fluff and garbage. It wasn't until Nolan that we got the dark (but less weird) and adult tone back.

 

[Ars Arcanum]

Personally grew up watching this; for better or for worse it was always a Batman movie in my mind. Looking back, it's Tim Burton as all fuck.

 

[CyborgNumberBlue]

Batman Returns is the worst movie in the Batman franchise, as well as one of the worst movies ever made.

 

[AuthenticM]

it's a great movie

 

[Xythantiops]

It's quite entertaining.

 

[SpitztheGreat]

TDIL: Batman Returns is a polarizing movie. I would have thought that Era would like it because it's so damn unique and has a great cast. It's plot is...messy, but everything is so damn good that the split opinion in this thread surprises me.

 

[Spooky_Lantern]

Was inspired by this thread to watch it last night. It's honestly great. Such a unique, bizarre, and fun movie. Might be one of my favorite Burton movies, back from when they were alright.

 

[Squarehard]

Campy, oh so cheesy, overly committed villains, Michael Keaton.

Put them all together, you got a winner.