Hey man,
There's atleast 3 people on here who don't outright dismiss criticism, so I think you need to be a little more respectful to us GAMERS.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
IGN: former US Marine describes cruel realities of White Phosphorus and why using it as a killstreak reward in CoD is not the best idea.
- Thread starter Phendrift
- Start date
There's atleast 3 people on here who don't outright dismiss criticism, so I think you need to be a little more respectful to us GAMERS.
The amount of "It's Just A Game" responses I've seen on Twitter as if that's a valid dismissal of all the good points in the entire article has been infuriating.
Any entertainment medium can make you think, video games have an extra level of interactivity you can use to challenge the player. War crimes as killstreak rewards is not the "realism" Activision says MW is supposed to convey.
This reminds of what I read from Ursula LeGuin about why she didn't choose to present her fantasy world as just a world at war or something.
I guess it's also why I never could really connect with most games that try to be realistic about shooty shooty bang bang (and I'm even including Metal Gear here).
I can't help but think of the reality of what is depicted in the games from the games and that makes the games really THAT much less fun.
I guess it's also why I never could really connect with most games that try to be realistic about shooty shooty bang bang (and I'm even including Metal Gear here).
I can't help but think of the reality of what is depicted in the games from the games and that makes the games really THAT much less fun.
but the very idea of this thread is pointless because it's a war game war everything is designed to kill you.
Well take solice in more people seeing games as art then ever before and that numbers only going to grow as the older generation dies.
Not sure the US Marines would be a place I'd go to for morality lessons given how they've carried out the dirty work of the US government for decades and also done a lot of other shady shit.
Also, and it's worth mentioning, 90% of video games are about killing. It's a tenet of virtually every video game. I'm not gonna be up in arms about different ways to kill pixels. It's of no real life consequence to me. Nothing is being glorified in CoD.
Also, and it's worth mentioning, 90% of video games are about killing. It's a tenet of virtually every video game. I'm not gonna be up in arms about different ways to kill pixels. It's of no real life consequence to me. Nothing is being glorified in CoD.
That argument can be made for any violence in a video game, and video games' place in causing violence in society.
Yeah fair point. My bad I jumped the gun on that one, the US hero worship of their troops disgusts me.
You got it anyway for some great posts in a gun violence or whatever thread that we had on era a year or two back, I remember really liking them.
For me it's more that this just feels like part and parcel of the series. Like, yeah, white phosphorus shouldn't be glorified or turned into an epic win. But these games are big budget military propaganda glorifying the military and violent warfare. Me personally, slightly more thoughtful and measured military propaganda that does not use white phosphorus as a gimmick would not really change much in the broader strokes for what the series represents.
Of course, people can play and enjoy whatever they want. I just see this as one more straw on the backbreaking load.
I feel a better comparison than nukes for this thread sake is napalm that was in black ops. It's very similar effects to wp.
Is there more we can talk about violence in video games at this point? Like, where do we draw the line? Are we gonna ask or demand for more video games that'll preach about the immortality of violence?
Did. You. Read. The. Article.
So many posts in here from folks who seem to have not read the goddamn article.
So many posts in here from folks who seem to have not read the goddamn article.
This needs to be quoted some, because it's a point that I think needs wider consideration by contributors here.
It's not about being offended, it's about understanding what the person is saying in the article.
It's a war game get over it! Don't play it if you're offended!
No?
Doom 2016 is way more violent than lots of games, and it gets away with it by the simple fact that the enemies are not human.
Its all about the content, context and message.
This is a series that routinely uses landmines, claymores, IED's an all manner of debilitating explosive devices that have killed, crippled and orphaned waaaayyyyy more people than White Phosphorus ever will.
It's also a series that was praised for a mission featuring an AC-130 gunship, in an utter display of asymmetrical warfare, literally wiping out scores of human beings like they were ants with a magnifying glass.
Napalm, Chemical Weapons, Nuclear Strikes. CoD has featured them all; with little to no fanfare or controversy stirred up with their inclusion. Why the fuck are we drawing the line at White Phosphorus all of the sudden? Edit: removed unnecessary criticism.
It's also a series that was praised for a mission featuring an AC-130 gunship, in an utter display of asymmetrical warfare, literally wiping out scores of human beings like they were ants with a magnifying glass.
Napalm, Chemical Weapons, Nuclear Strikes. CoD has featured them all; with little to no fanfare or controversy stirred up with their inclusion. Why the fuck are we drawing the line at White Phosphorus all of the sudden? Edit: removed unnecessary criticism.
I completely agree with his article. The depiction of the weapon in this year's CoD is a fucking joke, which I guess is aligned with the whole series.
So should it be portrayed as more cruel and brutal? On the other hand it seems like the game is also criticized for including realistic and horrific scenarios in the SP.
Yeah people take things too personally far too often on the Internet
That is the argument I'm making, as are many other people. I agree that this depiction of white phosphorus is gross. I also think COD has been gross for a long time.
Damn, sounds like this game is covered wall to wall in bad shit.
Ah, 'slippery slope'. Because advancement of visual tech somehow is not worthy of being 'context'.
It is hillarious how people can cite a litany of fucked up shit that has been featured on CoD in the past and it not ring a bell on their heads.
I agree! But maybe toggle off ignored members for a moment, because there are also lots here who're trying to shut the conversation down entirely.
nuclear weapons do much more than that there are plenty of people are at Hiroshima and Nagasaki that didn't get vaporize at the endpoint that's still die from severe burns and radiation sickness
Nah, I'm just goofin. I personally think this kind of thing is a really tough subject to tackle and it requires a certain degree of nuance that doesn't really lend itself well to online discussion. Sorry for any confusion lol
The media we consume affects and influences our opinions - just because it does not cause people to become violent, does not mean it doesn't influence our opinions or empathy on the real world around us or how we view violence. We absolutely critic other forms of media for how they depict violence, criticising a game for using a weapon in multiplayer designed for fun what is actually in real life an actual war crime is not an insane criticism or hyperbolic. It's basic criticism that any other media would have gotten and you wouidn't get this many people rushing to belittle it.
This scene was specifically praised for its accuracy to real leaked footage from Iraq/Afghanistan and how the nonchalance of it all was effectively uncomfortable.
Of course, that's gonna happen any time a subject like this comes up. People don't want to critically reflect about the media they consume.
You know what happens to the people who weren't directly under the bomb?
The thing is even the campaign isn't sure to be realistic. It seems to be all about the edge and shock value.
They are taking inspiration from movies like American Sniper to create the game.
The developers of MW have themselves said they're trying to go for a more realistic depiction of war in the new Call of Duty. Games like Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Battlefield, and others are going to shoulder a heavier discussion because they use real weapons in real war scenarios. Notice there was less talk about whatever the fuck they were doing in Infinite Warfare because that was in space with spaceships and other more fantastical elements.
Saving Private Ryan has a different message than The Matrix, though both have violence they treat it very differently. If the developers are going to brag about "realism" in their game, they have to be open to these kinds of discussions when confronted with real life violence.
I wrote something on my own personal website on this.
I don't get the issue to be honest considering how other weapons are tolerated/a fuss not made about it.
There is not a suggestion at all that civilians are to feature in the multiplayer which immediately dismisses the points made about Spec-Ops. Spec-Ops scene was only poignant because it was used on civilians.
Would have loved the marine to talk about the use of WP in Fallujah considering he has intimate knowledge of what happened there.
I don't get the issue to be honest considering how other weapons are tolerated/a fuss not made about it.
There is not a suggestion at all that civilians are to feature in the multiplayer which immediately dismisses the points made about Spec-Ops. Spec-Ops scene was only poignant because it was used on civilians.
Would have loved the marine to talk about the use of WP in Fallujah considering he has intimate knowledge of what happened there.
There's a relevant difference between nuclear weapons, a known and famous quantity that causes an instant death at close range and which is not in contemporary use, and the more murkily understood white phosphorous that inflicts unimaginable suffering before killing its primary targets and is currently controversially in use.
Great article and an appreciated point.
Great article and an appreciated point.
This is the second time actually. Black Ops 1 had it too.
That nuke scene stills gets me so fucking much...just watched it again and I'm so upset. :(
It's not because it's a war game that it should 100% have the horrible things that can happen at war. I think it's disrespectful of the past and downplays the atrocities that these weapons cause, especially in COD.
Spec Ops did it well though, it depicts the actual feedbacks from using those weapons enough to trouble the player and make him/her understand the gravity of those. While COD uses this shit as a reward for killstreaks, disgusting.