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Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
We've had The Last of Us setting a trend of desaturated "mature" games where you're a grumpy man in ordinary clothes shooting guns and throwing bricks to distract enemies, We've had Skyrim setting the trend for Hand-crafted open worlds in dozens of franchises since it came out (Dragon Age, Zelda, Far Cry), and before that we had Gears of War defining the third-person cover-shooter for a generation of shooters, and before that we had World of Warcraft introducing the new standard for questing in RPGs: "Do X thing Y times!"

Now a new generation stands before us. The new game that has opened the eyes to millions of designers is Death Stranding.

The prospect of limiting the player's ability to move using the analog stick by complicating it with tertiary mechanics is an idea so brilliant it had to seep into a new generation of games, even First Person games where tripping over is the fastest way to be eaten by the monster. Before Death Stranding the browser game Q.W.O.P. inspired Hideo Kojima to create the ultimate innovation: control of locomotion, and ever since Death Stranding made it mainstream all developers have been chasing the design that one-ups Death Stranding in a violent arms-and-locomotive-legs race!

So you're sitting here, with your PS5, Your RTX3080TIs and I7-9770X, or your Xbox Scarlett playing these new games.

Was it worth it? Do you like Far Cry 6? How do you feel about the fact that BioWare fixed the faces in Mass Effect 5 but made a locomotion system more wonky than Andromeda's crab-walking?

With some hindsight do you have regrets about where this generation went?
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,582
It's probably at least 3 years too early to tell >.<!

I won't say no to a Far Cry 6 where I have the option to do this though:

giphy.gif

tenor.gif

giphy.gif
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,253
We've had The Last of Us setting a trend of desaturated "mature" games where you're a grumpy man in ordinary clothes shooting guns and throwing bricks to distract enemies, We've had Skyrim setting the trend for Hand-crafted open worlds in dozens of franchises since it came out (Dragon Age, Zelda, Far Cry), and before that we had Gears of War defining the third-person cover-shooter for a generation of shooters, and before that we had World of Warcraft introducing the new standard for questing in RPGs: "Do X thing Y times!"

Now a new generation stands before us. The new game that has opened the eyes to millions of designers is Death Stranding.

The prospect of limiting the player's ability to move using the analog stick by complicating it with tertiary mechanics is an idea so brilliant it had to seep into a new generation of games, even First Person games where tripping over is the fastest way to be eaten by the monster. Before Death Stranding the browser game Q.W.O.P. inspired Hideo Kojima to create the ultimate innovation: control of locomotion, and ever since Death Stranding made it mainstream all developers have been chasing the design that one-ups Death Stranding in a violent arms-and-locomotive-legs race!

So you're sitting here, with your PS5, Your RTX3080TIs and I7-9770X, or your Xbox Scarlett playing these new games.

Was it worth it? Do you like Far Cry 6? How do you feel about the fact that BioWare fixed the faces in Mass Effect 5 but made a locomotion system more wonky than Andromeda's crab-walking?

With some hindsight do you have regrets about where this generation went?
Death Stranding is my favorite single-player game since Breath of the Wild, so if more games can pull off its weighty yet responsive controls, engaging locomotion mechanics and environmental pathfinding puzzles, I'm all for it.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,819
I don't think Death Stranding is on track to be the next Last of Us or Skyrim or Gears of War or whatever. At least it doesn't feel like it at this point in time.

But I mean, Dear Esther was a trend setter for a type of game (Walking Simulators), and if that game can be a trend setter for games about walking and experiencing story, I don't see how Death Stranding can't be a trend setter for games making mechanics about walking.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,236
The Netherlands
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on
The writing is god-awful, and made me lose all interest in the story after the first two hours of cutscenes. I'm 100% in this for the gameplay and I'm loving it!
 

benzopil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,153
It will be as influential as The Witcher 3.

Assassin's Creed will copy some elements and that's it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,898
Mount Airy, MD
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on

Is it though? There's not all that much story compared to the amount of time you spend playing the game, moving through the world, and navigating challenges. I'm loving it because it's an incredibly compelling gameplay experience IMO, and one that does the rare thing of making gameplay serve the story's themes.
 
OP
OP
Asbsand

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Really? I would say that the addictive nature of the gameplay loop is what grabs people.
Having finished a while ago.my impression is that the scenario was written and planned and partially recorded prior to the game systems even being implemented and there's the good old ludonarrative segregation in play. I do feel there's two distinct pulls and looking back I felt gameplay was a stronger component than the main plot.
 

Future Gazer

â–˛ Legend â–˛
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,273
If nothing else I hope Death Stranding inspires more games to include pooping mechanics.
 
Nov 22, 2017
344
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on

In all honesty, although I did find the story enjoyable, I didn't find it to be that good. Sometimes, it's not even well told.
But, I did find the gameplay to be very satisfying and addictive.
 

Dr Pears

Member
Sep 9, 2018
2,687
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on
It was the gameplay that hooked me and my friends. Unlocking new structures and equipments to make your deliveries more and more efficient was just so satisfying. The change in the gameplay between early game and endgame is so huge, I really felt like a delivery superhero at the end.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,657
I would actually love to see Death Stranding's mass-collaborative co-op stuff appear in more games next gen.

I'm actually surprise by how much I took to the "the terrain is a puzzle you have to navigate" hiking stuff, but I don't want to see it be a thing in every game. The tech they are using to generate terrain is something I'd love to see in game worlds next gen though.


It's the exact opposite for the majority of the people in the OT.

Indeed, the story varies wildly from having moments where it's great, to being self-indulgent or ham-fisted nonsense. The actual gameplay and building stuff that helps yourself and other players (and getting help from them in return) is great.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
Really? I would say that the addictive nature of the gameplay loop is what grabs people.
The writing is god-awful, and made me lose all interest in the story after the first two hours of cutscenes. I'm 100% in this for the gameplay and I'm loving it!
Is it though? There's not all that much story compared to the amount of time you spend playing the game, moving through the world, and navigating challenges. I'm loving it because it's an incredibly compelling gameplay experience IMO, and one that does the rare thing of making gameplay serve the story's themes.
It's the exact opposite for the majority of the people in the OT.
In all honesty, although I did find the story enjoyable, I didn't find it to be that good. Sometimes, it's not even well told.
But, I did find the gameplay to be very satisfying and addictive.

The people have spoken! Thanks for enlightening me because what I said was based on the few opinions I heard from friends.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on
I've heard literally zero story talk, and I've heard a lot of talk about Death Stranding.

That game is honestly a primarily gameplay experience. The story is great and intriguing, but what stands out in my mind is almost all gameplay.
 

Rafako

Member
Dec 19, 2017
458
I find DS movement, exploration and collaboration with other players super-rewarding, and I want more of that.
 

hydrophilic attack

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,562
Sweden
the thing is it's not as easy to replicate as you may think

the controls are incredibly responsive actually. it's just that you have to take into account momentum and balance more than in other games

if someone thinks the movement is just clunky and that's it when they try to replicate it, replication will fail miserably

you need to be able to make controls as smooth and responsive as MGSV before you can successfully replicate death stranding

nice troll thread though
 

MickZan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,404
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on

Huh? I thought the story was decent at best. Gameplay is why i consider it the best game of the year.

Edit: i see you already responded! Nevermind.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,321
my takeaway is we've reached a point of "immersion" where a game like DS can be engaging (not counting occasional non-mundane parts like fighting ghosts with shit bombs and whatnot). not that it's an entirely new thing, obvs exceptions like truck sims or whatever but i don't think it could've been done last gen or early this gen
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
The prospect of limiting the player's ability to move using the analog stick by complicating it with tertiary mechanics is an idea so brilliant it had to seep into a new generation of games, even First Person games where tripping over is the fastest way to be eaten by the monster. Before Death Stranding the browser game Q.W.O.P. inspired Hideo Kojima to create the ultimate innovation: control of locomotion, and ever since Death Stranding made it mainstream all developers have been chasing the design that one-ups Death Stranding in a violent arms-and-locomotive-legs race!

I absolute agree. The last big innovation in on-foot character movement in AAA gaming was 360 analogue speed & direction control. DS adds further agency to those controls by making you deal with momentum as well as heading towards your goal. I don't think it gets rebalancing completely right, and there are hints of this approach in, such as GTA's drunk characters, but DS represents a big step forward with further room to improve.

I doubt we're going to see it become as ubiquitous as reloading in shooters, but I do expect to see more.
 

Carbonox

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,603
Really? I would say that the addictive nature of the gameplay loop is what grabs people.

Yup, the loop is what is doing it for me. I'm 35+ hours in and still on Chapter 5. I can't get enough of building out infrastructure that benefits me and in turn benefits other players. It''s like fucking crack. I've never played anything like that.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
Agreed. I got quite a few "this is the new BotW" moments while playing it, as frustrating as the game can often be.

It's funny, the whole "new genre called Strand" stuff was nonsense - mingleplayer is already WELL done - but he actually did invent a new genre of "traversal action" game where flat traversal is as perilous and active as combat in other games.
 

AzerPhire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Please no, I do not want my character stumbling around the landscape like it's babies first steps.
 

regenhuber

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,232
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on

I was on my phone during most of the cutscenes lol

Didn't care too much about the story because the gameplay was sooo good
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,800
Germany
I think it and BotW could set the trend for future Open World games and how they use negative space and try to make it more interesting instead of putting markers everywhere on the map (granted due to the online in DS it looks like that anyways lol).
 
May 24, 2019
116
I would like to see a game like Death Stranding that's smaller in scope and with greater depth in survival and combat. Insofar as I feel this way I'd like it to set a trend, but I also don't think this kind of traversal needs to be in every game. Maybe it's comparing apples to oranges since DS is 3D, but Hollow Knight, for instance, makes traversal fun by making you very acrobatic and using your weapon to move you around.

Maybe the better takeaway is that ponderous terrain-focused traversal can be just as enjoyable as fast and lithe traversal, and more generally for open-world or backtracking-heavy games, that traversal should maybe be a focal point of the game if you're going to be doing it all the time. In this area, Dandara was a game that I thought was really successful at implementing an unusual movement mechanic right at the heart of its gameplay. I would love to see an idea like that in a 3D game.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
It will be as influential as The Witcher 3.

Assassin's Creed will copy some elements and that's it.

Yeah, I can't wait for Assassin's Creed to make you hold 4 buttons and balance with the stick to climb. I'm sure that will be enormously fun. /s

In all seriousness, though, these mechanics work well for what Destra wanted to achieve, and that's respectable. But it really doesn't fit the majority of games, same as RDR2's weighty animation doesn't fit majority of games.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,951
I would like to see a game like Death Stranding that's smaller in scope and with greater depth in survival and combat. Insofar as I feel this way I'd like it to set a trend, but I also don't think this kind of traversal needs to be in every game. Maybe it's comparing apples to oranges since DS is 3D, but Hollow Knight, for instance, makes traversal fun by making you very acrobatic and using your weapon to move you around.

Maybe the better takeaway is that ponderous terrain-focused traversal can be just as enjoyable as fast and lithe traversal, and more generally for open-world or backtracking-heavy games, that traversal should maybe be a focal point of the game if you're going to be doing it all the time. In this area, Dandara was a game that I thought was really successful at implementing an unusual movement mechanic right at the heart of its gameplay. I would love to see an idea like that in a 3D game.

How about Grow Home? that may even be the first stranding game about connecting.
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
It will be as influential as The Witcher 3.

Assassin's Creed will copy some elements and that's it.
No way, Ass Creed has been moving away from immersive mechanics and any kind of friction that would make traversal interesting. Those games are meant to be played on autopilot. A series that got rid of fall damage isn't going to borrow anything from a game about foot care and fixing your posture.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,673
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on
The story is hamfisted anime tropes with terrible writing and dialog. That's not why I played it for 50+ hrs.

EDIT: You have spoken.
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
Honestly the idea of there being more games with an emphasis on traversal over more traditional "shooty bangbang" gameplay would be a godsend in this oversaturated shooter timeline we find ourselves in.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
I think developers won't borrow what Death Stranding have done because the mechanics don't have mass market appeal which is what the majority of games want these days, and that's pretty disappointing as it's gameplay systems are very satisfying and something that could easily cure the open world fatigue.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,249
The walking mechanics would actually have to be good to be able to set trends.

Exactly. In theory I want to like them but in reality you just equip yor cargo, auto optimize it, and walk in a straight line toward your destination, holding L2 and R2 when you start slipping. Sometimes you have to make a slight detour around some water. It really is that simple.

I came in expecting much more interesting interactions and choices, but people are way overstating how deep the traversal mechanics are. It's like playing a platformer game where if you fall off a platform, you just go into a pit with stairs at the end that also lead to your destination. When all routes somewhere are equally valid, choices are meaningless.
 

MickZan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,404
Exactly. In theory I want to like them but in reality you just equip yor cargo, auto optimize it, and walk in a straight line toward your destination, holding L2 and R2 when you start slipping. Sometimes you have to make a slight detour around some water. It really is that simple.

I came in expecting much more interesting interactions and choices, but people are way overstating how deep the traversal mechanics are. It's like playing a platformer game where if you fall off a platform, you just go into a pit with a ladder at the end that also leads to your goal. When all routes somewhere are equally valid, choices are meaningless.

How far are you? Later in the game you absolutely have to manage a lot more.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
I wonder how many Death Stranding fans put up with the gameplay to experience the story. The story is the reason Death Stranding is popular. So I don't see the mechanics catching on
People always say shit like this about Kojima's games and they're always wrong. Marketing uses Kojima's stories to sell the game but what's always kept me coming back time after time, even when the story disappoints or Metal Gear's story jumps the shark, is the game design. Kojima and his team have such a tremendous eye for detail and understanding of game design that they successfully made an engaging and fun gameplay loop out of delivering packages.