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Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,688
Finished my second game. My first game i thought i did okay but i lost and i realized i was going to lose so i looked for ways to win and there were barely any. There wasnt that much fame i could get before the game ended. Despite having built like 10 wonders in the last 2 eras. The thing is that i was only getting era stars in 2 categories and thr other ones i wasnt even closr to get my first one. Which made me question if it was a good idea to go to the next era as soon as possible. I always waited in case i was just 2 or 3 turns away of getting an era star bht not more. The fame you lose by not getting era dtars when you go to the next era are lost forever.

So i played differently this time. I stayed longer in an era and tried zo have a more balanced ppaystyle and oh boy did it pay off. I won the game with more than twice ad much fame as the second person. That seems like the more optimal way to play and it also adresses the complaint that some have that eras fo by too fast. I felt a bit the same in the first game but that doesnt seem like the intended way to play. I would only go to the next era early if i really really eanted to get a specific culture. But doing it every time seems like a bad strategy.
 

barjed

Project Lead
Verified
Aug 31, 2018
1,509
Is it not possible to demand a city after a won war if it wasn't claimed by influence first? I just won a long and exhausting war which ended up with the biggest civ in the game broken but since I declared a surprise war (which means I had no grievances) I cannot demand anything except for getting some reparation money. That seems pretty underwhelming. Maybe I should've occupied a city first (I only won skirmishes in the field, since they were spamming insane number of units).

Another large gripe I have is that I cannot for the life of me understand how the area of a battle is determined. Just now I had the AI siege my city and somehow my capital (in a neighbouring province) also ended up under siege, despite no enemy units there? Multiple times, on the battle preview I see an estimated power in favor of me, I see no enemy units standing on the highlighted hexes and then, after the battle is triggered, it pulls another AI army into the fight out of nowhere which results in an unwinnable fight. This should be fixed, because it really diminished any sort of tactical thinking and positioning right now.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,122
You can only demand cities if you occupy them or they were part of your demands at the start of the war.
 

OrangePulp

Member
Jul 21, 2020
1,758
Generally by the time you hit the final age the game is already decided, but if you want the science victory, definitely go for the Turks. The Public School building gives 1 science per population, but each adjacent research district increases that by 300%, or 3 more science per pop, maxing at 19 science with a full hex. Especially nice if you can manage to mix two big cities together; I had once city, combined from two, at 95 or so pop, with all 6 of it's territories having a public school surrounded by 6 science quarters. Comes to 10.8k raw science before percentage increases and such. I went from 8k science a turn at the start of the era, to 43k per turn by the end of it; the final techs are only 31k science each.
 

Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,688
Generally by the time you hit the final age the game is already decided, but if you want the science victory, definitely go for the Turks. The Public School building gives 1 science per population, but each adjacent research district increases that by 300%, or 3 more science per pop, maxing at 19 science with a full hex. Especially nice if you can manage to mix two big cities together; I had once city, combined from two, at 95 or so pop, with all 6 of it's territories having a public school surrounded by 6 science quarters. Comes to 10.8k raw science before percentage increases and such. I went from 8k science a turn at the start of the era, to 43k per turn by the end of it; the final techs are only 31k science each.
But what exactly do you mean? There is no science victory
 

OrangePulp

Member
Jul 21, 2020
1,758
But what exactly do you mean? There is no science victory

Researching all technologies is a science victory. It ends the game the turn after you get your last tech. I guess they're probably not actually called victories in this game? End condition, or whatever. Although if you have every tech, you're probably doing well on the score front.
 
OP
OP
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,526
Hull, UK
Researching all technologies is a science victory. It ends the game the turn after you get your last tech. I guess they're probably not actually called victories in this game? End condition, or whatever. Although if you have every tech, you're probably doing well on the score front.

There's a number of end conditions yeah, but fame is what decides the winner.
 

Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,688
Researching all technologies is a science victory. It ends the game the turn after you get your last tech. I guess they're probably not actually called victories in this game? End condition, or whatever. Although if you have every tech, you're probably doing well on the score front.
Thats an end condition. Not a victory condition. It will end the game. But it will still win who has the most fame.
 

OrangePulp

Member
Jul 21, 2020
1,758
Yeah, just used old terminology out of habit. I'll be curious to see if the distinction between end conditions and victory via fame ends up feeling significant or not; When I play 4x (in a pretty casual manner, to be fair), victory or defeat is usually decided well before the actual victory conditions show up.
 

Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,688
Yeah, just used old terminology out of habit. I'll be curious to see if the distinction between end conditions and victory via fame ends up feeling significant or not; When I play 4x (in a pretty casual manner, to be fair), victory or defeat is usually decided well before the actual victory conditions show up.
Its not really terminology. Its two completely different things. Ginishing the tech tree will not win you the game. Being the first to explore the game will also not win you the game.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,404
A propos ending: my only negative point in the game right now is that the end is a bit abrupt, there is no ending cutscene à la Civ, and the stats at the end could be a bit more detailed....

On thing I didn't get: how is the cost to attach / absorb determined?
 

OrangePulp

Member
Jul 21, 2020
1,758
Its not really terminology. Its two completely different things. Ginishing the tech tree will not win you the game. Being the first to explore the game will also not win you the game.

Uh... I would say not completely different, because in other 4x games it's an end condition as it is in this game, it just also happens to guarantee the victory. Figure most folks familiar with the genre would understand what I meant.

Personally I have a hard time imagining a game where someone could finish the tech tree and not already be winning, given how deep it is and how much fame you get from the final techs. Maybe at the higher difficulties your margins are much tighter?

Interesting that the game doesn't really have a cultural end state. Is vassalizing something you can manage through diplomacy alone? As otherwise that's also lacking. I feel like elimination or vassalization are basically two sides of the same domination/conquest ending. It does have contemporary stars, which is an interesting jack of all trades sort. And killing the world with pollution is kinda funny.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,428
A propos ending: my only negative point in the game right now is that the end is a bit abrupt, there is no ending cutscene à la Civ, and the stats at the end could be a bit more detailed....

On thing I didn't get: how is the cost to attach / absorb determined?
I wish this and many other numbers actually explained how the value was derived. It would help elucidate the mechanics so much, and help players actually strategise.


Trade costs are the one that really confound me. I'll buy luxuries for anywhere between 80-230 gold, then an AI will buy one I just added for... 10 gold.
 

Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,688
Uh... I would say not completely different, because in other 4x games it's an end condition as it is in this game, it just also happens to guarantee the victory. Figure most folks familiar with the genre would understand what I meant.

Personally I have a hard time imagining a game where someone could finish the tech tree and not already be winning, given how deep it is and how much fame you get from the final techs. Maybe at the higher difficulties your margins are much tighter?

Interesting that the game doesn't really have a cultural end state. Is vassalizing something you can manage through diplomacy alone? As otherwise that's also lacking. I feel like elimination or vassalization are basically two sides of the same domination/conquest ending. It does have contemporary stars, which is an interesting jack of all trades sort. And killing the world with pollution is kinda funny.
Its not that hard to finish the tech tree and not be winning. You can rush to the next era asap all the time and just go for science and lose on a lot of faith and someone with a more balanced playstyle that does a lot more stars per era could have more fame than you have.
 

DOATag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
466
Canada, eh?
I cant get the game to end...

I started the game and it threw me into a fight, ive been lucky in that ive taken over the world, but the game wont end. Ive researched every technology. Ive defeated every enemy. IThe games just says end in infinite turns

Am i missing something?
 

johancruijff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,237
Italy
talking about independent civs...
one of the AIs sieged one that was basically on the outskirts of my capital freezing my development for 40 something turns due to the adjacent combat, a dumb skirmish 180vs160 and they even lost!
i tried everything, allying with the AI to expedite the siege, breaking alliance and declaring war, nothing
i detached all regions from the Cap and i had to wait for them to lose to regain control of my city...
lesson learned and all, but there must be some other way to do this
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,428
I cant get the game to end...

I started the game and it threw me into a fight, ive been lucky in that ive taken over the world, but the game wont end. Ive researched every technology. Ive defeated every enemy. IThe games just says end in infinite turns

Am i missing something?
Someone mentioned earlier that the very first tutorial game it throws you into has no victory conditions set. Starting a new game fixes this.

And yeah it's a really strange design choice.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,404
I wish this and many other numbers actually explained how the value was derived. It would help elucidate the mechanics so much, and help players actually strategise.
Yeah, that's on ething Paradox games do well (... most of the time). Kinda missing this.

Never played a 4x should I jump in?

Any tips friends?
Well, for what it's worth, the tutorial is pretty okay in this one.
Then again, 4X games really are something specific, you have to like the genre.

I cant get the game to end...

I started the game and it threw me into a fight, ive been lucky in that ive taken over the world, but the game wont end. Ive researched every technology. Ive defeated every enemy. IThe games just says end in infinite turns

Am i missing something?
Normally once you fulfill an end condition, the game prompts you if you want to end or continue playing, maybe you clicked on continue?
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,986
I cant get the game to end...

I started the game and it threw me into a fight, ive been lucky in that ive taken over the world, but the game wont end. Ive researched every technology. Ive defeated every enemy. IThe games just says end in infinite turns

Am i missing something?

I thought someone said that the first game it dumps you into doesn't have any win conditions, but I can't see the post now. :/
 

Matttimeo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
767
Anyone encountered any invisible units? I just had a warrior disappear after I retreated them from combat. I can still select and control them but they have no model or icon on the map. Did a bit of an internet search and it sounds like it is a common problem and their are multiple triggers that can cause it. Hopefully it gets patched out soon cos it is a tad annoying.
 

barjed

Project Lead
Verified
Aug 31, 2018
1,509
Not sold on how factions / nations are handled yet. While it's obviously more historic than fucking Babylonians launching nukes in Civ, it does hurt the overall faction identity a little. I guess it stings more because Endless game have all incredibly versatile and different factions, almost unparalleled in the 4X sector (ES space tree people, EL creepy one city dolls, etc). Seeing my Egyptian stone houses transformed into wooden Celtic huts was... odd.

I like the narrator though. He has a great voice and a nice, light delivery. Fits the game very well.
 

Jibberhack

Member
Oct 30, 2017
670
As a life-long Civ fan, I am really enjoying Humankind. However, this game is buggy as hell and appears unfinished in places. Multiple crashes to desktop, had a bug where the avatars didn't load and that led to a crash. Unit assets remaining on the battlefield after I eliminated them. I built Machu Picchu and it seems to be not working correctly (mouse over tooltip does not mention its food bonus, nor does the city screen). Some of the art assets for structures seem unfinished or definitely unpolished. Setting ships to auto-explore is an exercise in frustration. Pathfinding is extremely weird at times. Sometimes the game doesn't recognize input when I'm trying to move units.

I'm still on my first tutorial game. I'm digging the era system allowing you to set the pace of advancement in the game. I REALLY love the combat. How you approach a city can be more important than having superior numbers (especially if you can't field your entire army). Having to position your units to take advantage of choke points and flanking makes combat more interesting. I tend to not auto-resolve battles because I often lose units I would not otherwise.

Some weird design choices though seem to not be balanced or not optimal. Extra cities costing influence is not a big deal if you're swimming in it. Upgrading to advanced units does not update to cultural specific units, which is a shame (instead of upgrading to Janissaries, my crossbowmen upgraded to the regular gunpowder units). Being able to instantly heal your units for cash seems a little broken. Having to hear the same dialogue again and again if you decide to transcend is annoying.

Overall, I'd say the game is an 8/10 while factoring in potential. It's probably more like a 7/10 or even 6/10 with all of the technical issues and lack of polish.
 

Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,688
As a life-long Civ fan, I am really enjoying Humankind. However, this game is buggy as hell and appears unfinished in places. Multiple crashes to desktop, had a bug where the avatars didn't load and that led to a crash. Unit assets remaining on the battlefield after I eliminated them. I built Machu Picchu and it seems to be not working correctly (mouse over tooltip does not mention its food bonus, nor does the city screen). Some of the art assets for structures seem unfinished or definitely unpolished. Setting ships to auto-explore is an exercise in frustration. Pathfinding is extremely weird at times. Sometimes the game doesn't recognize input when I'm trying to move units.

I'm still on my first tutorial game. I'm digging the era system allowing you to set the pace of advancement in the game. I REALLY love the combat. How you approach a city can be more important than having superior numbers (especially if you can't field your entire army). Having to position your units to take advantage of choke points and flanking makes combat more interesting. I tend to not auto-resolve battles because I often lose units I would not otherwise.

Some weird design choices though seem to not be balanced or not optimal. Extra cities costing influence is not a big deal if you're swimming in it. Upgrading to advanced units does not update to cultural specific units, which is a shame (instead of upgrading to Janissaries, my crossbowmen upgraded to the regular gunpowder units). Being able to instantly heal your units for cash seems a little broken. Having to hear the same dialogue again and again if you decide to transcend is annoying.

Overall, I'd say the game is an 8/10 while factoring in potential. It's probably more like a 7/10 or even 6/10 with all of the technical issues and lack of polish.
The game has definitelly a few bugs and is unfinished in some places but i played 2 games already and nothing too bad happened to me and on the technical side like crashes etc i've had no issues. The most annoying thing that has happened to me is a unit turning invisible.
 

Big Tex

Member
Oct 28, 2017
380
How does the AI get reinforcements during some battles? Only encountered during Siege so far.

Edit: Ah. Its a tech.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,620
Still haven't finished a game since I realised by the last era that I was hopelessly behind number 1 in one game. Another stopped passing the turn but was too easy and the next I got bumrushed by hoplites early into the game.

My current strategy is to immediately go for the Persians in the 3rd era because the +2 city cap is a massive passive boost. Preferring a production or food civ for the 2nd era to build up the cities quickly.

In the 4th era the Franks are strong if you got a lot of scouts left over from exploring because they upgrade to heavy cavalry.

My biggest complaint rn is that auto explore doesn't work pretty much.



Oh yeah something happened which I didn't know whether it was sabotage or a bug but gemstones suddenly gave my market squares -20 gold instead of + and I started losing hundreds of gold. After it didn't go away I reloaded the latest save and it was gone.
 

Smiley90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,793
Independent people seems a very broken mechanic. Unless you check every turn if the assimilate button is available, the AI will claim them for themselves and there's nothing you can do, even if you have way more influence and their society is all yours. Society overall seems pretty useless, what does it even do?
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,094
Some of the era stars like expansion get ridiculous quickly so that could make choosing expansionist affinities tougher to get those "era bonus points" down the road. I think the biggest issue with the expansion one is territories need to be attached to count, which near the end of the game are extremely heavy on influence versus the beggining.

What I've been doing to maximize score is try to earn 3 stars in your primary affinity than waiting for the science to hit three star and any other near finished stars prior to teching up, unless a computer is also close and I really want the next "first pick". Since you can actually run out of science techs before moving to the next era, the three star in science is usually my final decision point.

Independent people seems a very broken mechanic. Unless you check every turn if the assimilate button is available, the AI will claim them for themselves and there's nothing you can do, even if you have way more influence and their society is all yours. Society overall seems pretty useless, what does it even do?

Fun fact I found about the free cities: If the population is 0 you can take it without a fight. Yes, your scouts can run over to the city center and boom free city with no influence spent. And if you don't have the cap, just ransack it with said scout (2 over the cap in the early game can be a breaking point for example with influence). Not sure if this is 100% intended but it is how I do pest control.

Also the 2nd AI slot is bugged with independent people so that is where you may be seeing assimilation issues. I have found out though if a ton of free people spawn on a map (say huge map with few AI's) on a slower speed where resources are tighter, the 2nd AI starts to struggle with all of the independent people it has the ability to instantly connect with. That said, I have seen the 2nd AI also assimilate a population prior to hitting a 90 score in reputation (the lowest was actually just into the 2nd tier and of course was right next to my capital).
 
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Nelson

Member
Oct 1, 2019
81
California
However, this game is buggy as hell and appears unfinished in places.

That's the main reason I haven't bought it. Not the reports of bugs for Humankind really, but the terrible experience that was Endless Legend in its first few months. Amplitude doesn't invest enough into testing and debugging and I just don't have the patience. Hopefully they've got decent telemetry and commit to fixing the bugs; better late than never.
 
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Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
Columbus, Ohio
That's the main reason I haven't bought it. Not the reports of bugs for Humankind really, but the terrible experience that was Endless Legend in its first few months. Amplitude doesn't invest enough into testing and debugging and I just don't have the patience. Hopefully they've got decent telemetry and commit to fixing the bugs; better late than never.

FWIW I've played 11 hours and have only seen a couple UI bugs and have no performance issues. As these big strategy games go I think it's up there with CK3 in terms of launching in a relatively polished state. Not that waiting ever hurt of course.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,122
There's definitely something up with Pink. In my game I was the first religion to tier 4 by a long way, and yet the entire world follows Pink's religion including almost all of my territory. They are the AI doing the best in the game but still way behind me so there's no reason that should happen.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,094
Yeah, while it has potential, I'm pretty concerned about the longevity of this game, at least in the short term. Almost every game is going to play out similarly and the "nations" really don't change up the strategy much, just which "FIDS" they expertise in. Plus, there probably will be "optimal" nation pairings that a lot of players won't shy from since the playstyle doesn't change much and will pigeon hole the game even more. The only system I haven't touched much is the military/domination style yet due to playing on some larger maps but all I've read about is complaints about the war support system so not sure that will help much...yet. Even the affinities powers don't seem like they do much or are highly scripted. Oh, and playing wide is considerably more stronger than tall in this game, since the influence costs are night and day for expansion.

Religion is very under baked, as is influence, pollution, and "free people." Everything revolves around the era stars that only have minor changes with nation affinities getting bonus points for a certain star path. However, as the game goes on, you are going to be pulling in the same stars without even trying: population, builder, and science...with influence/money not far behind. The military and expansionist stars are way over tuned and don't do much to affect your score. So this is basically like playing Civ with only "score" as the victory condition but only 5 metrics are used to create the score which are pretty much automatic over time.

Granted Civ is normally pretty bare bones at release as well but this is considerably more "bare" currently. Needs a lot of attention beyond the bugs.
 

Smiley90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,793
Yeah, while it has potential, I'm pretty concerned about the longevity of this game, at least in the short term. Almost every game is going to play out similarly and the "nations" really don't change up the strategy much, just which "FIDS" they expertise in. Plus, there probably will be "optimal" nation pairings that a lot of players won't shy from since the playstyle doesn't change much and will pigeon hole the game even more. The only system I haven't touched much is the military/domination style yet due to playing on some larger maps but all I've read about is complaints about the war support system so not sure that will help much...yet. Even the affinities powers don't seem like they do much or are highly scripted. Oh, and playing wide is considerably more stronger than tall in this game, since the influence costs are night and day for expansion.

Religion is very under baked, as is influence, pollution, and "free people." Everything revolves around the era stars that only have minor changes with nation affinities getting bonus points for a certain star path. However, as the game goes on, you are going to be pulling in the same stars without even trying: population, builder, and science...with influence/money not far behind. The military and expansionist stars are way over tuned and don't do much to affect your score. So this is basically like playing Civ with only "score" as the victory condition but only 5 metrics are used to create the score which are pretty much automatic over time.

Granted Civ is normally pretty bare bones at release as well but this is considerably more "bare" currently. Needs a lot of attention beyond the bugs.

2 games in I tend to agree with this, especially on religion, pollution, influence and free people being way, WAY lacking.

I absolutely love the territories vs. cities gameplay and I'm also a big fan of the way districts/FIDS works as well as battles, but everything coming down to ERA stars basically makes it a score victory only, with gameplay choices only minority contributing to stars, since you likely end up doing everything anyway.

Early game feels very fresh and different from Civ and positive, but it transitions into just rushing through era stars and mindless building for late game IMHO, it needs more late-game payoffs for different build approaches.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Came in 2nd on Easy and didn't have time to reach the last era.

Not sure how I feel about that.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,510
The issue sort of comes down to the fact that if you do well on Agrarian stars you're basically a lock for all the others sans military, since population juices all your other measured outputs so hard. They probably need to tune up the required numbers to hit stars so you have to specialize more to get later ones.
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
Anybody know how combat odds are calculated? (Ignoring terrain differences)

In Civ 6 the combat results depended entirely on the difference in strength (i.e 30vs20 was the same as 110vs100)

In some previous games it depended on the ratio of power.

How does it work in Humankind?
 

Gyoru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,602
The higher combat strength will win because you'll have higher minimum/maximum damage rolls.

Even just 1 combat strength above your enemy (base strength or modifiers from high ground/flanking etc) can determine the entire battle.
 

kombucha

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 15, 2021
94
Could someone explain war support? I just destroyed and occupied a civ only for me to forcefully surrender and pay them money?? I guess this doesn't play like civ series and war should be more rare and 'justified' , I just don't understand a scenario in which I would be able to conquer someone and have positive war support.

also what do I do with independent city states? My area just got surrounded by hostile ones, or are these the equivalent of barbarians? Can I just take their outposts or are there reparations
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
Could someone explain war support? I just destroyed and occupied a civ only for me to forcefully surrender and pay them money?? I guess this doesn't play like civ series and war should be more rare and 'justified' , I just don't understand a scenario in which I would be able to conquer someone and have positive war support.

also what do I do with independent city states? My area just got surrounded by hostile ones, or are these the equivalent of barbarians? Can I just take their outposts or are there reparations

humankind.fandom.com

War

War, in Humankind, is a continuation of diplomacy by force. If the other Empire is unable to or refuse to satisfy your Empire's Demands, you can resolve the argument by declaring war on the pretext of a high War Support, and crush the other Empire in combat until they abandon their own Demands...