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How can you learn about slavery and the holocaust and still believe in a god?
- Thread starter Blue Skies
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Dante's poem is a big inspiration, but the popular image of Hell comes from the description of Gehenna in the Bible, a valley outside of Jerusalem. It was a literal garbage dump, and constantly burning since people set their garbage on fire. It was described as a lake of fire from which there was no return.
Hell itself is described as more of a state of being that is a total and complete separation from God.
Hypothetically?
"Here's free will, don't fuck it up."
*Humanity proceeds to immediately fuck it up.*
"Well at least the handful who get it right have an eternity away from those assholes to look forward to."
OP
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My reaction?
"I don't want to be like them when I grow up."
I'm really not too focused on wondering why other people choose to believe in things that bring them peace or joy.
Nah. We suck because we choose to suck. Evil / Good is always there. Both come from God -- if God made us.
Animals, nature, it's brutal stuff. Humans are no exception. We can be self serving (survival) but also think in terms of the greater good (survival). We are complex that way. Higher thinking. So are actions, even the bad shit, is a lot more nuanced, more creative.
I think there's zero interference though, assuming God is real.
How many Christians are there on earth? How fast did it spread? What's the dominant religion? I don't think reach was ever a problem for Christianity.
I used to be super critical of religion as being a root cause for evil, but I've pulled back on that, and actually align more with Marx nowadays. Critical, but also sympathetic to those who believe and find some peace in religion. But ultimately, still remain critical of it.
User banned (1 week): hostility, attacking other members + previous recent bans for inflammatory posting
I see at least three different ads or people talking about how great God is, or how God saved them or it was a miracle when a hundred people died but God saved them specifically. The belief in a God that allows horrible things to happen to people for no reason matches up with being a horrible person, considering the track record of politicians way into the God stuff. It's offensive to me as a human being that in 2019 we're still entertaining this nonsense. Not to mention your 'cultural peace' still is negatively hurting and impacting untold numbers of people the world over and is directly responsible for millions of deaths thorughout history.
So yeah, you can deal with an occasional thread or two. You read the thread title and still came in. Don't like hearing about your phoney-baloney God? Fuck off to the Christianity off-topic group where you can enjoy your delusion with the rest of the sheep.
User Banned (1 week): hostility with dismissive commentary towards the community
"millions of deaths" caused by religion lol this neckbeard fucking site
I would ask where you live and your age, but I guess it doesn't matter.
That would be the third by the way.
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what were you attempting to say besides "why do these threads exist?"
easy, you don't.
We have to learn to be anti-religion but not anti-religious. There are always going to be religious people and you can't hate them for being who they are. But you can cite religion as a reason for a lot of really bad things, a poison to the mind, and a hurdle for the advancement of modern society.
We have to learn to be anti-religion but not anti-religious. There are always going to be religious people and you can't hate them for being who they are. But you can cite religion as a reason for a lot of really bad things, a poison to the mind, and a hurdle for the advancement of modern society.
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I wish y'all could just answer, even you still religious folk, how did you react when you found out about some of humanities many inhumanities?
Did it not make you doubt this god you so much believe in?
Did it not make you doubt this god you so much believe in?
I grew up religious (very progressive Christian) and started to question things as I got older. These days, I like to believe that a higher power exists, but history does make anyone with an inquiring mind second guess the teachings of modern Christianity.
I legit would love to have a long discussion with a religious scholar about things like this to see the real justification. I know the idea revolves around free will and the devil and shit like that, but that doesn't really make some of these terrible acts "make sense" with regards to the teachings in the Bible.
I legit would love to have a long discussion with a religious scholar about things like this to see the real justification. I know the idea revolves around free will and the devil and shit like that, but that doesn't really make some of these terrible acts "make sense" with regards to the teachings in the Bible.
It did not. It made me doubt my fellow man, because they were the bad ones.
Do I still have times where I question how a God could let bad things happen to people? Absolutely yes, I do. But I believe in balance, and there can't be good without evil.
I will add that I don't necessarily believe in the Christian God, because I see no evidence that their idea is any more correct than any of the other thousands of Gods out there from various and sundry other religions throughout history. I think there's something out there, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.
There's a multitude of reasons why a god may not care or not be willing to intervene. They may merely be observant, may be testing us, or any other wide range of possibilities. Would it even be a significant event to a god? To them we might as well just be a giant ant farm. The holocaust happening with no interference wouldn't be proof enough.
Now what really proves that gods don't exist is that there is no physical evidence. If a god really wanted us to know they existed, they would have the means to make it well known. Considering that they don't, I find it cheap to make up excuse after excuse on why a god can't do this or that and why a god hasn't shown up yet. If they're so powerful and omnipotent, why do they have so many convenient restrictions? A "god" is just a series of guidelines to follow through life. Don't get me wrong though, I don't care what people do with their own lives and if they find a religion that helps them out without imposing it on others, then good on them and I hope it makes them happier in life.
I was bullied my entire childhood for my autism, so it has been apparent my entire life that people are fucked up, have zero compassion for others, and will be assholes over things that do not affect them in literally any way. Learning about the holocaust was just me realizing adults take it farther than kids do, I really never had a reaction. I honestly don't react to many things because if it's out of scope of what's affected around me and those I care about, it's very hard for me to have much of a reaction in the first place. The holocaust was something in the past so it was hard for me to really understand the gravity of it all, and even now it's just another event of human history in my eyes, albeit one of the most fucked up ones.
Now what really proves that gods don't exist is that there is no physical evidence. If a god really wanted us to know they existed, they would have the means to make it well known. Considering that they don't, I find it cheap to make up excuse after excuse on why a god can't do this or that and why a god hasn't shown up yet. If they're so powerful and omnipotent, why do they have so many convenient restrictions? A "god" is just a series of guidelines to follow through life. Don't get me wrong though, I don't care what people do with their own lives and if they find a religion that helps them out without imposing it on others, then good on them and I hope it makes them happier in life.
I was bullied my entire childhood for my autism, so it has been apparent my entire life that people are fucked up, have zero compassion for others, and will be assholes over things that do not affect them in literally any way. Learning about the holocaust was just me realizing adults take it farther than kids do, I really never had a reaction. I honestly don't react to many things because if it's out of scope of what's affected around me and those I care about, it's very hard for me to have much of a reaction in the first place. The holocaust was something in the past so it was hard for me to really understand the gravity of it all, and even now it's just another event of human history in my eyes, albeit one of the most fucked up ones.
I don't believe in God now, but I suppose I did back when I learned about slavery and the Holocaust and it didn't really have any affect on my beliefs. I always understood it as those people did something evil rather than God allowing something evil.
What has religion to do with your argument against the evil that people do?
I think a point that coincides with this is, if God is real, is God all powerful (able to stop this stuff) or just a jerk. Sure, it's a tired old thought exercise, but so is the OP. I mean, God could exist and just not be able to be involved for whatever reason, so God is not all powerful. Or, the other option is that God is a dick who gives cancer to children. People have thought about this for centuries, and we'll never know.
Also leads to one of my favorite movie quotes, Kingdom of Heaven
'God will understand, my lord. And if he doesn't, then he is not God and we need not worry.'
Also leads to one of my favorite movie quotes, Kingdom of Heaven
'God will understand, my lord. And if he doesn't, then he is not God and we need not worry.'
Even as an atheist, I like this line of thinking. Doesn't even necessarily have to apply to God. It's a nice thing to think about when you are disappointed with the world.
You made up a conclusion under the subconscious assumption that your moral judgement is the objective pinnacle judgement of all time, and that your logic is flawless.
You did not study anything about it, hearing from hearsay, and immediately makes a conclusion about the topic of God, thinking you must be right.
"How can God be real when we do these to each other?" -- this is so logically flawed that i won't even bother to describe.
In short, there is a segment on Christian Apologetics, probably called "atheist moral dilemma", that debunks all your points using logic. It's the one thing atheism have never succeeded in answering, and probably will never try, and pretend it doesn't exist if they knew it, because one of the best argument for it actually comes from an atheist, and breaks down all atheist's logic about morality.
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Religion, most of them, propose that an ultimate being created us, and also a majority of those religions believe that a messenger of that being walked among us, so it stands to reason that the ultimate being didn't "forget us", they obviously still care about their creation, so why would they allow their creatures to suffer? To be enslaved, to be killed, to be confused?
I was listening to an NPR talk last week and a speaker brought up how the Bible never says what Mary and Joseph did with all that gold they were given, I thought that was pretty entertaining. I kinda wanna re-read the Bible through a skeptical adult's lens and see how many other times plot threads get dropped.
You know religious wars are a well-documented thing right? Clown.
You're not very aware of any religions that you are slamming are you?
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I am perfectly fine in making the moral judgement that: Slavery/Holocaust are objectively bad.
the thread is literally about a seventh grader first hearing about the holocaust and slavery, events that have definite proof, vs god/belief, things that have no proof.
Ok don't bother describing it
To answer this thread, religious people will come up with literally any excuse so it's not worth arguing. Again, all their arguments will boil down to "God works in mysterious ways." How the fuck are you supposed to argue that?
And you went through all of that, and you needed to point a finger to the heavens, but you ain't gonna say shit to your fam around the table.
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ive had the argument with my mom.
she still believes I'll come around.
guess like always her faith was placed incorrectly
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They're actually being way more antagonistic than that in here
"gran, how can you believe in god when this turkey is dry as a fucking bone?"
Because this thread probably made them almost *gasp* question things
Not a single person as said that bullshit
You are tripping
Uh...is this sarcasm?
How does one become this completely clueless about history?
Just wait till you find out that the Bible talks about God causing abortions and stillbirths.
Your average religious person doesn't even know what's in their own books.
I don't see how it should make you doubt God.
God gave people freewill. If people use this freedom to do bad things then that's their choice and they will be punished. If people do good things they will be rewarded.
I am not sure why this will make you doubt God if you believe in the concept of choice and free will.
Like seriously, if God prevented people from doing things then would that still be freedom and free will? No, it would not.
if i thought my eternal soul was contingent on a the contents of a book, you bet your ass i'd have that shit memorized forward and back
most religious people literally couldn't give a shit less by comparison
forget god, people work in some mysterious ass ways
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