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How can there always only be 2 Sith?
- Thread starter Sage
- Start date
I thought there were always more, but the 'rule of two' only allowed for 2 to be active. The rest was just undercover.
It was always a dumb idea. Especially the "no less" part. There *always* has to be someone else training in the wings in case one of the "actual" Sith are killed. Even the Clone Wars era had Dooku and Assaj Ventress and Savage Oppress, beyond Sidious and Maul.
KOTOR 1/2 into Darth bane I felt explained it best (and Darth bane was at least partly canonised).
If your entire cult is based on the ideology of your absolute control and thirst for power. Your biggest enemy stops being the Jedi. Your biggest enemy inevitably ends up just being other Sith running around. Basically like the Tory party.
If your entire cult is based on the ideology of your absolute control and thirst for power. Your biggest enemy stops being the Jedi. Your biggest enemy inevitably ends up just being other Sith running around. Basically like the Tory party.
Not every Dark Side user is a Sith. Only a specific lineage of masters and apprentices are true Sith. Palpatine is the only Sith master we ever see in the movies and he only ever has one apprentice at a time.
Also, the Rule of Two is a relatively new innovation in the Star Wars timeline. Any media that depicts a bunch of Sith running around take place before it was implemented.
Also, the Rule of Two is a relatively new innovation in the Star Wars timeline. Any media that depicts a bunch of Sith running around take place before it was implemented.
There are many Dark-side users but only 2 actual Sith Lords at any given time. Just to provide more context on the Rule of Two and why Darth Bane instituted it.:
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction (CH 23)
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction (CH 23)
It's not a fault of the story, it's quite literally arbitrary in-universe.
Its often used as a trick to convince minions to do their dirty work for them "well kill the emperor together and take over" before throwing them away when no longer useful.
Theres a lot of story issues with star wars but this isn't one of them.
Its often used as a trick to convince minions to do their dirty work for them "well kill the emperor together and take over" before throwing them away when no longer useful.
Theres a lot of story issues with star wars but this isn't one of them.
The Sith are essentially a fundamentalist religious order. Training an apprentice to become strong enough to kill the master is the whole point. The master dies, but the Sith (in theory) grow stronger with every iteration.
its also motivation for the master to not get lazy. Want to live? keep getting stronger so your apprentice takes longer to catch up.
I'm pretty sure at this point it basically means there are only two high ranking officials/bosses. Basically think of it like a criminal syndicate which has a head honcho and their right hand man. That's my interpretation, anyway.
with the inquisitors and maul and who knows who else running around during the Palpatine/Vader years it's just a bit silly to pretend otherwise.
with the inquisitors and maul and who knows who else running around during the Palpatine/Vader years it's just a bit silly to pretend otherwise.
Well you see, it's super simple. As Rise of Skywalker showed us, you can have hundreds and hundreds of Sith followers, and to preserve the Rule of Two, all you gotta do is say the two bad guys with the fanciest outfits and/or the most screentime count as real Sith.
Actually RoS didn't provide any clarity at all regarding Sith hierarchy. But sheesh, there sure was an inexplicably huge crowd of robed dudes in the bleachers on Exegol.
Actually RoS didn't provide any clarity at all regarding Sith hierarchy. But sheesh, there sure was an inexplicably huge crowd of robed dudes in the bleachers on Exegol.
- Its era dependent, so it doesnt always apply
- being an official sith is more like a job title, doesnt mean you cant have a red lightsaber and do evil shit with the force (see: inquisitors)
- its fiction, they can break the rule however and whenever the fuck they want
Fun fact: the term Sith first appeared in the novelization of the first Star Wars that released almost half a year before the movie.
I've always figured the rules of two was reserved for Sith Lords in particular. As others have mentioned, other practitioners in the dark side can exist.
Have you noticed a particular set of words that keep coming out of the mouth of Sith apprentices? Something about overthrowing their master and ruling the galaxy?
It's been a while but I believe the Sith were very numerous at one point and they nearly all died out because they were obsessed with gaining as much power as possible and that meant killing each other, so that rule was instituted. The apprentices were still all about killing their masters once they became strong enough.
Also the Sith follow a religion, "simply" fallen Jedi or dark side users in general are still assholes with the same aspirations to power and rule. They just don't follow the Sith religion.
Not surprised that EU work has completely ignored the rules.
It's been a while but I believe the Sith were very numerous at one point and they nearly all died out because they were obsessed with gaining as much power as possible and that meant killing each other, so that rule was instituted. The apprentices were still all about killing their masters once they became strong enough.
Also the Sith follow a religion, "simply" fallen Jedi or dark side users in general are still assholes with the same aspirations to power and rule. They just don't follow the Sith religion.
Not surprised that EU work has completely ignored the rules.
Sith is just a term. It's easier to compare Jedi to Sith, rather than Jedi to "The Dark Side".
Sith flows better. It's like poetry.
That's...what I thought Rule of 2 was for as long as I remember hearing the phrase.
It's a laughable, overly-literal take on a throwaway Yoda line.
I'm sure he meant that there's got to be another Sith besides Maul because they have a master-apprentice system. But somehow that got taken as ONLY TWO IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY NO MORE NO LESS!!!!!!!!
Then writers, burdened by this utterly stupid idea, have struggled to make it make sense for decades. It never did.
I'm sure he meant that there's got to be another Sith besides Maul because they have a master-apprentice system. But somehow that got taken as ONLY TWO IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY NO MORE NO LESS!!!!!!!!
Then writers, burdened by this utterly stupid idea, have struggled to make it make sense for decades. It never did.
There is a difference between Sith in the line of Master-Apprentice succession and the individuals around them, who are generally seen as weaker or of lower potential. The first two are in an educational relationship. The rest merely serve.
The lore absolutely accounts for the fact that there are a ton of other people with red lightsabers out there.
The lore absolutely accounts for the fact that there are a ton of other people with red lightsabers out there.
It's a rule that has nothing in universe actually keeping it from being broken. It's more like the sort of oath you take after finishing University that you'll only use your knowledge for good or whatever. Sure, you swore it and it can maybe be used against you in court, but practically speaking nobody can stop you from breaking it.
It's some fuckin bullshit tell you what. Different potential Sith would do better with different teachers. Since there is only one teacher, some of them who would be perfectly good Sith never reach that point because they don't have a good teacher who would take them there. Why don't they deserve a change?
Read the Darth Bane trilogy, it's so good.
It's not that there are only two dark force users out there or anything, it's that only two can be part of the grand plan (to destroy the Jedi). It was brought on by Darth Bane seeing the Sith lose over and over due to infighting and power struggles, so he devised a system where the Sith master (him) takes on one apprentice, and it's expected that the apprentice should grow stronger and overtake him. That way, the line is continuously getting stronger - which is why Sidious is so damn powerful and scheming - he was the last of a 1000-year line of this Rule.
Those finer details are no longer canon though :(
But yeah. The first Bane book has a ton of Sith and by the end - there's only Bane and a young apprentice - won't spoil how it happens in case you read. Everyone raves about the heir to the empire trilogy but the Bane trilogy was IMO even better.
It's not that there are only two dark force users out there or anything, it's that only two can be part of the grand plan (to destroy the Jedi). It was brought on by Darth Bane seeing the Sith lose over and over due to infighting and power struggles, so he devised a system where the Sith master (him) takes on one apprentice, and it's expected that the apprentice should grow stronger and overtake him. That way, the line is continuously getting stronger - which is why Sidious is so damn powerful and scheming - he was the last of a 1000-year line of this Rule.
Those finer details are no longer canon though :(
But yeah. The first Bane book has a ton of Sith and by the end - there's only Bane and a young apprentice - won't spoil how it happens in case you read. Everyone raves about the heir to the empire trilogy but the Bane trilogy was IMO even better.
"So yeah, then just kill me at the end. Okay good? Perfect."
Ventress was never officially a Sith apprentice, though. She was taught in the dark side, but probably not a lot of in-depth Sith teachings. But it's why Sidious orders Dooku to kill her eventually, since she's skirting the line too much, and becoming more than the simple assassin Dooku would claim her to be.
Opress was even less of a Sith, as his power came from Night Sister magicks, and Dooku barely had the chance to teach him anything. Maul took him under his wing, for sure, but he was never a master, and he seemed like he didn't teach Opress much about the Sith anyhow.
It's a gray area, for sure, but it seems like the rule isn't officially broken in those instances. Just because you're apprenticed to a Sith, that doesn't make you a Sith apprentice, basically.
Nah there are always 3, Master, apprentice and a secret one that furthers their agenda and who stays mostly under the radar.
Jar Jar Binks
Jar Jar Binks
This exactly. The "rule of two" might be one of the all-time best examples of Star Wars fiction hanging reams of dumb lore off of nothing, up there with Boba Fett and the Clone War.
The way I understood it is that can only be 2 acknowledged Sith plotting/ruling, where-as other Sith still exist in the shadows if they need to take their place. Ultimately though, those other Sith are not necessarily aligned with the "2" and just want power for themselves or are pawns that do their bidding. Mara Jade, for example, was a pawn of Palpatine and brainwashed at that.
