No.... stop trying to push your opinions on TLJ into everything. Endgames success has nothing to do with TLJ... Christ this is a stretch armstrong Dhalsim levels of reaching.
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Has the reception to Endgame proven TLJ critics right?
- Thread starter Puck Beaverton
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No.... stop trying to push your opinions on TLJ into everything. Endgames success has nothing to do with TLJ... Christ this is a stretch armstrong Dhalsim levels of reaching.
No it wasn't proven, and no, no one should have to be lumped in with nazis because they also didn't like a star wars movie. Insinuating as much makes you a sad person that should grow the fuck up. Like honestly the lack of self awareness to just how sad this kind of response is from you and others is embarrassing. Because its by far the worst kind of posts on this topic on era.
You can't avoid criticism of the movie by branding all critics as nazis and manbabies.
Not yet. Best to wait a few months. It is the internet and eventually the bi shiny thing will become the subject of all scorn as people farm for clicks and want to appear unique. By years end there will.be tons of people on the net, and in real.life, saying Endgame was trash for minor flaws and perceived "sjw propoganda."
No, that's not true. For a movie dealing with [redacted] it is surprisingly tight.
oof, hard disagree there.
TLJ's issues don't involve plot holes though.
Whether it should or shouldn't happen is irrelevant. It happens. That is all I am saying. Some of y'all seem intent on putting these damn shoes on for some reason.
It doesn't actually. You and one other poster insinuate it. 6 others call you out on it and then you come back with "well see, its proven people do it". By people you mean yourself. And anyone who does this is a sad human being that needs to get a grip on reality because thinking its acceptable to perceive others as nazis because they didn't like a fucking star wars movie is about the saddest fanboying Ive seen on the internet.
Part of what will make Endgame hard to dislike is the sheer payoff by the end of the movie. More often than not, I think the movie will be remembered not for what it tried to do different but how it closed off its many arcs for the original cast of the Avengers. It is the conclusion to an 11 year legacy with many great fanservice moments and an ending the that definitively closed the book on many characters. Closure is the one thing it did really well and many people who have watched all these movies, and more importantly have been watching these since the beginning, are going to remember it fondly. It's an argument of time and emotion. It'll be really hard to fight against that. TLJ doesn't really have that unfortunately because of many of the cast in the new trilogy are new.
Both of you, hop onto the spoiler thread, tag me and let's talk about it.
No, it doesn't. What happened in the case of TLJ is that racists and manbabies got lucky in the sense that they attacked a movie that happened to be divisive and that gave them the impression that more people share their shitty beliefs. They tried to do the same with Captain Marvel and they were turned into the laughing stock of the internet because people really enjoyed that movie. TLJ received a lot of backlash because many normal people didn't like the movie, not because racists and manbabies didn't.
I think what the OP is perhaps implying is that having a sequel feature some level of prominent fan service or reward/pay off, actually makes for a more enjoyable and consistently well received (by audiences) overall experience, without as much divisiveness, backlash or disappointment.
Pretty much this, except that it wasn't "a lot," it was a vanishingly small but loud group of hardline nerds who didn't like that the movie was true to Luke Skywalker's established character rather than making him an incongruous badass, and who weren't ready and/or able to comprehend a Star Wars movie with an unorthodox structure and thematic thrust.
The Last Jedi made over a billion dollars and was the #1 movie of its year, as well as the #1 selling blu-ray of the following year. It's a phenomenally popular movie and Endgame being different doesn't "prove" anything about it. What a weird fucking thing to even think, let alone make a thread about.
The Last Jedi's Cinemascore was an A-. It was consistently better received by audiences than almost any other film of its year. It's only divisive amongst internet nerds. Mainstream viewers loved it and have no idea it's supposedly divisive. Because it isn't.
Labeling people who dislike your favorite movie as Nazis is incredibly sad and also helps the alt-right dissociate themselves with Nazism. I've given up on talking about this since the mods don't give a single fuck about it but at least consider the gravity of what you're implying. Most of us just want to have a conversation about a movie.
...
So, I believe the direction they went with the character arcs of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers is a really smart, and well-considered choice. Both have satisfying arcs that conclude in a good thematic place, and both have sincere, touching emotional weight behind them. If you were to switch their roles in the end and make the small changes for it to fit the narrative better it would have been...fine...but from a writing standpoint I think what we got made for a more thoughtful conclusion.
Ultimately, even if you dislike what the writers and planners did in Endgame, you have to consider that in the MCU concessions must be made. In the comics, characters can live and be reinvented and re-imagined, entire stories can be retconned or ignored, and in general there is a lot of leeway the writers have. Within the confines of the reality of a longform story structure of cinema, eventually every character will be killed off, retired or forgotten and we can only hope that any character we are attached to can get a quality sendoff.
Who knows how the original Avengers' will go. Or when. Or why. All I can say is that I appreciate and agree with the choices in Endgame and I'm sad and sympathetic to those who aren't aligned with me in that respect...
...Can we just keep these discussions focused on the MCU and not irrelevant comparisons that are made purely to incite one another?
So, I believe the direction they went with the character arcs of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers is a really smart, and well-considered choice. Both have satisfying arcs that conclude in a good thematic place, and both have sincere, touching emotional weight behind them. If you were to switch their roles in the end and make the small changes for it to fit the narrative better it would have been...fine...but from a writing standpoint I think what we got made for a more thoughtful conclusion.
Ultimately, even if you dislike what the writers and planners did in Endgame, you have to consider that in the MCU concessions must be made. In the comics, characters can live and be reinvented and re-imagined, entire stories can be retconned or ignored, and in general there is a lot of leeway the writers have. Within the confines of the reality of a longform story structure of cinema, eventually every character will be killed off, retired or forgotten and we can only hope that any character we are attached to can get a quality sendoff.
Who knows how the original Avengers' will go. Or when. Or why. All I can say is that I appreciate and agree with the choices in Endgame and I'm sad and sympathetic to those who aren't aligned with me in that respect...
...Can we just keep these discussions focused on the MCU and not irrelevant comparisons that are made purely to incite one another?
Right, but we don't know the make up of those particular audiences who attributed to that Cinemascore. End Game in comparison has a Cinemascore of A+.
However you want to slice it, it's clear that TLJ has been somewhat divisive with certain audiences and perhaps more glaringly, with many long time fans. That simply doesn't appear to be the case with End Game, and I believe the fan reward or pay offs etc are the sort of thing that bridges that difference in reception.
Like TLJ from TFA, End Game is also a fairly tonally different movie to Infinity War, but it doesn't disregard fan expectations or ideals in quite the same way, in-fact it gloriously delivers many of them, but subverts them in other ways. To me it strikes a better balance, hence there's far less contention about how the material is handled and more consistency in positive audience opinions or reception to it.
I haven't insinuated anything dude, I've shot straight from the beginning. Like, you continue to ignore the context of what I am saying, and the larger context of the toxic Star Wars fandom.
Anyway, you seem to be upset about this and feel personally attacked. This was not my intention, so I'll be clear: I do not think you or people who don't like The Last Jedi are Nazis.
Sure but that association is still stuck with some people. It is a fallacy for sure, but it happens. Sort of like how supporting Bernie Sanders makes some people give you the side eye because of the toxic "Bernie Bros."
I agree with the bolded and never said anything to suggest otherwise. Check the original post I quoted, it was saying how there always has to be a catch to disliking The Last Jedi. I agreed, and made a post about one of those catches being the alt-right poisoning the well and trying to co opt it.
So respectfully, I'm gonna have to hard disagree. Sure, there is plenty of over the top fanservice stuff in the movie that is a crowd pleasure. However, the first hour of the movie is not playing it safe - a lot of people go to see Marvel movies for fun action and silly comedy. The first third of the movie is a slow paced, somber look at the ramifications of if Super Heroes actually lose to Super Villains. I mean hell, just Thor's character alone is proof they didn't play it safe.
Avengers: Endgame is a blockbuster Marvel movie. There are limits to how far they can stretch what that can be. But what we got was not a safe movie, and I'd argue the weight of bringing together just about every prominent Marvel character they could and finding a good way to finish the story arc of several characters and pivot/establish other important characters is pretty impressive.
Maybe we just have wildly different ideas of what a safe Marvel/Avengers movie is though.
It was weird at Celebration I was talking to some people like "I really like the new Star Wars stuff I know they're divisive but I just love them" and everyone I said that to was like "...they're not divisive though." It was kinda eye opening and refreshing to hear from so many who just like em like me (I realize it's a biased sample as it's at the literal Star Wars con but still)
Attack of the Clones also had a A-. It there is one metric you shouldn't qoute, it's cinemascore.
The whole premise of this thread is reductive.
You are assuming that critical distaste of TLJ stems from it being "risky" and approval of Endgame stems from it being "safe".
What if, in either case, a person's reception is based on other factors like character development, script, narrative cohesion, performances, etc.
There's a lot more to a movie than being risky or safe.
Deus Ex Machina: a plot devicewhereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and seemingly unlikely occurrence, typically so much as to seem contrived.
Time Travel isn't a Deus Ex machina- it's a concept that was pre-established in the universe as a potential tool/weapon. Also, it didn't abruptly solve anything- the hero's still had to work towards their goal after settling on Time Travel as a means to an end - resolution didn't come out of nowhere.
While it was to be expected that many characters would be coming back, it wasnt clear how. That's where the writers had an opportunity to create surprises.
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You literally intimated that it might be fair to have those people associated with that moniker so get out of here with now all of a sudden acting like you were merely ONLY saying that label exists. It exists within a bunch of desperate basement dwelling fans who need such reassurance that the fictional space movie they like is loved by everyone, and the only possible explanation for why anyone wouldn't like it is because theyre alt right nazis, but that certainly isn't the majority reaction to others when they say they didn't like the movie. So knock off the "it wasn't my intention" when you very clearly suggested its probably fair that that label be given to those who dislike the film. One other person agreeing with you doesn't prove shit that this is a wide reaching phenomenon, and its weird you'd use that sample size to tout proof that your assessment was correct while ignoring how many others are calling you out for it. But I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who made a post like you did to kick this entire conversation off.
It blows my mind mods let discourse like that hang around. Its why I stopped trying to have serious conversation about the movie entirely. Because some obsessed fanboy always comes in and tells you youre a nazis or hate women if you didn't like tlj. Like even reading that sounds like hyperbole but here thats the status quo from several members here.
Jesus Christ. TLJ really tear up our zeitgeist. Even Mark Hamill is still bitching over it despite make him more rich and relevant than ever.
To quote a line from TLJ, "maybe". Time will tell and I personally don't care either way, I'm not a fan of Star Wars. I watched TLJ without any reverence for Luke or any other character and I thought it was an awful movie, I didn't enjoy watching it at all. Now if they pull the same shit on the Picard series, that's when I will be truly mad.
It shouldn't happen. It happens because people don't actually listen to what someone is saying but seem to have already made up their mind about something solely based on their initial position. If you hear someone say "I didn't like The Last Jedi" and you immediately think "this person is a toxic manbaby", then that's on you, that's your failing and it effectively kills any hope of an interesting discussion. Any attempt at that will inevitably end in a shouting match.
The Last Jedi is a fantastic movie and Endgame doesn't come close. Not only Endgame is a safe movie but it doesn't reinvent the wheel ( however stunning ending ).
The Last Jedi was greatly received by critics, actually much better than Endgame. It's the part of the Star Wars fan community - against any type changes in Star Wars canon story - that created that controversy on social media and forum.
The Last Jedi was greatly received by critics, actually much better than Endgame. It's the part of the Star Wars fan community - against any type changes in Star Wars canon story - that created that controversy on social media and forum.
So the gif was the problem? My bad. I'll take that one on the chin. Labeling my last thought as a question was just an excuse to use the Benicio gif as a goof and did not reflect my actual thoughts on the fairness of judging all those who criticize The Last Jedi. Maybe I should have added a "no it isn't actually fair to do so" in spoilers under the gif to make it clear. I'll make an effort to be more mindful in the future.
It reaaaaaaaaly isn't. It doesn't even handle that better than most movies with the same plot device.
It'll be viscously picked apart in 6 months once the dust has settled, but for now it'll coast on being an exceedingly safe, manufactured feel good cap to a decade long production line of aggressively mediocre movies.
How can you enjoy your wealth or legacy if your character's dead?
Is being a ghost more fun?
TLJ: 91% RT, 8,07 average rating. Top critics 8,14.
Endgame: 95% RT, 8,21 average rating. Top critics 7,63.
The rating and reviews don't support your opinion that TLJ is a much better movie than Endgame.
Tag me in the spoiler thread, I'd love to talk about it. I really enjoy this kind of stuff.
You are environmentalist and animal rights activist BUT SO WAS HITLER.Part of it is the company you are in when you say you dislike the movie. You are in agreement with misogynistic manbaby gamer-gate cyber-nazi's. Is it unfair that you are sometimes being lumped in with them because you happen to share the same opinion, even if it is for different reasons?
The Last Jedi and Endgame were both excellent.
TLJ was following up on a crowd-pleasing nostalgia fest. It was the perfect time for a film that challenged audiences expectations. It will likely end up being seen in a more positive light as time passes, similar to the trajectory of the initially polarizing Empire Strikes Back.
Endgame was the culmination of over a decade of storytelling and was the perfect time for fan service and satisfying conclusions.
Also, please stop trying to tie everything to The Last Jedi.
TLJ was following up on a crowd-pleasing nostalgia fest. It was the perfect time for a film that challenged audiences expectations. It will likely end up being seen in a more positive light as time passes, similar to the trajectory of the initially polarizing Empire Strikes Back.
Endgame was the culmination of over a decade of storytelling and was the perfect time for fan service and satisfying conclusions.
Also, please stop trying to tie everything to The Last Jedi.
I'm just going to say this: you're allowed to prefer one film over another. You're allowed to be disappointed in a film, you're allowed your opinions.
What really gets my goat though, is that why TLJ of all films receives such acrid vitriol and my Youtube suggestions are filled with videos like "Why TLJ is a cinematic failure" and people here still bicker over plot points like Holdo not telling her plan or why bombs can drop in space, but scrolling through the Endgame spoiler thread, people are much more civil.
I enjoyed both films but I had issues with them which for me were of equal standing.
What really gets my goat though, is that why TLJ of all films receives such acrid vitriol and my Youtube suggestions are filled with videos like "Why TLJ is a cinematic failure" and people here still bicker over plot points like Holdo not telling her plan or why bombs can drop in space, but scrolling through the Endgame spoiler thread, people are much more civil.
I enjoyed both films but I had issues with them which for me were of equal standing.
Of course you're looking at reviews post hype. There are always higher. Let's see in 3 or 4 months...
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