Half-Life Alyx players, do you see a non VR mod feasible

[Trisc]

Not in the slightest. The game would have to change too much to be playable without VR, and those concessions would make it feel small and oversimplified. One of the major things I feel people fail to realize is that 2D video games often scale things way up, since realistically proportioned stuff in a 2D video game can make spaces feel really cramped and uncomfortable, while in VR it makes the world feel natural and real. It's also part of why Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR take so much time to adjust to: everything feels a little too small, and even when you're at head height with NPCs, they seem a little scraggly and narrow in a way that didn't seem the case in 2D.

 

[qrac]

They don't care about pushing unit sales at least in short term. Their main priority had always been pushing VR to the mainstream.

They have no intention of releasing a "non-VR version".

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Is that from an official statement? Seems weird, but I could understand it, they have a lot of money and are not in a hurry for more sales. But eventually I think it will be released. Could be wrong, never know with valve.

 

[marcbret87]

I really do not see how the game could re-engineered to work as a regular M+KB shooter. I guess with a lot of work it could function like a Wii game with motion controls in a flat screen, but the experience would be severely compromised and you would still need some special hardware for the controls.

 

[Yippiekai]

Price of entry isn't the only issue. Lack of room is one thing (I'm wondering if I'll have enough for it, when/if I get an Index.)

There may be health issues to consider. I've been reluctant to share this before because, well, I feel it's personal (and the way some VR fanatics attack such issues can be fucking annoying to say the least!) but I have asthma and my doctor speculated I may have bronchiectasis too; I can get out of breath fast. Even just playing Super Mario Galaxy 2 last year I noticed my breathing became unusually strained after a while, and that was from being sat down and simply waggling a Wii remote. It's a problem I wouldn't have any concerns about if a non-VR version of Alyx existed alongside the VR version (I have no trouble playing Black Mesa, nor had I any trouble playing any previous game in the Half-Life series, though I was in better health back then!)

Or people may simply not want to play a new Half-Life in VR even if they do have the money to throw at it. After all, for all this speak about Alyx being built from the ground up for VR, the previous four entries in the series were not. It shouldn't be difficult to see (and respect!) why some, many even, don't like it when a series shifts from being one thing to something else, particularly in this case - utterly different. It inevitably fractures a fan base.

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I play Alyx seated on a couch. So the lack of room isn't an issue with this game in particular.

For health issues, yes, but it only touches a minor part of the population, at least on the level of yours. The movement options in the game are diverse enough to be able to play it even if motion-sick.

And for the last part, why? Do we have people seriously saying "I don't want to play X game on a screen!!"? Why is VR so different? Most people I see saying this kind of shit are people who didn't invest in VR so it kinda makes sense they want to convince themselves but otherwise, it's a weird thing. As you say, Alyx is built from the ground up for VR. Every episodes shifts the gaming landscape, that's what they do. Do people didn't play HL2 because they don't want physics in their game? But every Half Life before didn't have physics on that level, that was a departure too.

It's maybe time to stop searching excuses. People don't want to play Alyx in VR because they don't care about the game, they don't have a powerful enough PC or they don't know/don't want to search for the alternatives to the 1000$ Valve Index. If everyone had the setup to play it, no one would throw the kind of nonsense like that.

 

[Trisc]

I could see it working, with some adjustments, mainly to puzzles that use the multi tool, but i do believe it loses a lot of the magic. I've just been through this part on chapter 3 with the

Spoiler: SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 3

barnacles close to explosives, and while it could work with mouse and keyboard, there's a LOT of tension in aiming with your hands at stuff, trying to not hit anything that would kill you

. This is an incredible game not because of VR, but it was tailored so well to the medium that it just wouldn't be as fun without it

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In Chapter 7, Jeff wouldn't be nearly as scary if not for the fact that you often have to get really close to progress. The elevator is a particular standout moment; it's incredibly cramped, your only option is very clear, and even still it's absolutely terrifying because that option involves getting really close to Jeff and risking detection. It's mastefully done and wouldn't translate to 2D at all.

 

[mxbison]

I think most of the people asking to simply release a non-VR version of a game haven't played VR.

Its a completely different game, it simply doesnt work. Its not just a screen taped to your face and moving the camera with your head instead of a mouse....

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

That's always the problem with this topic, the assumption that a non-VR version must attempt to match the VR version in every way. Any such mod, extensive or otherwise, is doomed from the start.

I've not had the chance to play the game yet but from everything I've seen I could loosely draw a comparison with the immersive sim - resource gathering, creative use of objects and the environment to make progress and defeat opponents - so a from-the-ground-up rework in that vein for non-VR could work very well.

Yes, it would be a different game but that's kind of the point: Half-Life fans that aren't interested in VR don't want to play the one Valve made.

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Even if you mod it like how HL2 would be played, it would be a boring game and people would call it "average" or even bad. The whole level design is based on VR.
The fights are based on VR.
The enviromental storytelling is based on VR.

Let's take the part from the gameplay trailer, where Alyx is at that bigger space killing combine. In that area there are literally just 5 combine soldiers. If you use HL2 as a base, you are done with that part in 10 seconds with the shotgun. Now for a non-VR version you could just spawn 30 enemies. The leveldesign wouldnt change though. It would still be a small area, where you run around shooting combines.
In VR you are hiding behind the car, waiting for an enemy to reload. You are throwing bottles somewhere to confuse enemy soldiers.

Almost all of the areas in HL:Alyx, where players are thinking "Wow!" would be "meh" in a non VR game.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The best I see is someone ripping out the assets and levels and just putting them into the HL2 engine and letting you play through the levels and story but with basically nothing resembling the actual gameplay of Alyx.

 

[Alexandros]

I think that dedicated modders can (and will) do it but the end result will be a bad game. I think we have to accept that VR is a different medium with its own design principles that don't translate well to conventional gaming. I'm watching a Let's Play on Youtube for the story because I won't play the game even if it gets modded for flat screens.

 

[Trisc]

I think most of the people asking to simply release a non-VR version of a game haven't played VR.

Its a completely different game, it simply doesnt work. Its not just a screen taped to your face and moving the camera with your head instead of a mouse....

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I honestly can't blame them for thinking that, given so many "triple A" VR games have been 2D ports of VR games (like Skyrim VR) and optional VR modes (like Thumper and Resident Evil 7).

It'd take ten, maybe fifteen minutes of gameplay in Half-Life Alyx for folks to realize it wouldn't work as a 2D game. You can make 2D games VR, but you'd have to change the game on a fundamental level to do the reverse.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Someone is going to eventually do it, and people will try it then say they don't understand the hype.

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Yup. Because it'll suck.

 

[Deleted member 227]

I think people are underestimating the ingenuity of people who can't afford something. Someone will most definitely make a non-VR version for everyone that doesn't have money for VR.

Will it be as fun? Probably not, but it'll happen eventually.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

I like how most people here have 0 experience in modding or developing but still say no chance, i also have no experience in that but i wouldn't say that a mod is impossible

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I worked on the original half life 2 VR mod.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

I mean, simply watching walkthroughs on Youtube is already enough to say no. Of course, it's probably possible to remake the game more in line with flat experience, but it basically means throwing out of window everything from the interactivity to the encounter design, in other words, it wouldn't be the same game at all.

 

[c0Zm1c]

And for the last part, why? Do we have people seriously saying "I don't want to play X game on a screen!!"? Why is VR so different? Most people I see saying this kind of shit are people who didn't invest in VR so it kinda makes sense they want to convince themselves but otherwise, it's a weird thing. As you say, Alyx is built from the ground up for VR. Every episodes shifts the gaming landscape, that's what they do. Do people didn't play HL2 because they don't want physics in their game? But every Half Life before didn't have physics on that level, that was a departure too.

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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I shouldn't really need to explain why VR is different. Alyx represents a significant shift in the way a Half-Life game is played. People didn't have a problem with Half-Life 1's sequels because they were already accustomed to how the games played.

Even if you mod it like how HL2 would be played, it would be a boring game and people would call it "average" or even bad. The whole level design is based on VR.
The fights are based on VR.
The enviromental storytelling is based on VR.

Let's take the part from the gameplay trailer, where Alyx is at that bigger space killing combine. In that area there are literally just 5 combine soldiers. If you use HL2 as a base, you are done with that part in 10 seconds with the shotgun. Now for a non-VR version you could just spawn 30 enemies. The leveldesign wouldnt change though. It would still be a small area, where you run around shooting combines.
In VR you are hiding behind the car, waiting for an enemy to reload. You are throwing bottles somewhere to confuse enemy soldiers.

Almost all of the areas in HL:Alyx, where players are thinking "Wow!" would be "meh" in a non VR game.

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Yeah I basically said earlier in the thread that to do it justice it would need an entire rework, and not just a slapdash mod to shoehorn it "as is" into working with keyboard and mouse/controller.

Edit: oh wait, it's the post you quoted. So, yeah lol.

 

[Batatina]

I would play a mod with super easy difficulty and disabled puzzles or even just a walking simulator to get through the environments and experience the story. As it stands I will never be able to play this in any other way, unless it comes to PS5 VR as that's probably the only one I would invest in the future.

 

[Bradford]

Having played it extensively, it is literally impossible. There is no way it would work the way the game wants to function. Basic mechanics, combat encounters, and entire levels would need to be remade.

 

[mxbison]

I like how most people here have 0 experience in modding or developing but still say no chance, i also have no experience in that but i wouldn't say that a mod is impossible

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Guess it depends what you mean by feasible.

Is it possible to mod the game so you can play it from start to finish in 2d with mouse and keyboard? Sure

Will it be anything like the original game? No

 

[Akuma-san メカ豪鬼]

Is it possible though with PSVR and move controllers?

 

[sweetmini]

With a kinect to fine tune aim, the hands controllers, and a trackball under a foot for turning, it has to be possible ... cumbersome though ;)
No reason not to be possible.

 

[Windu]

Is it possible though with PSVR and move controllers?

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I don't believe the move controller tracking is good enough for this game. Will probably hit the Psvr2 though with improved controller tracking.

 

[Deleted member 30124]

.

 

[Jobbs]

The changes you mention are literally things that make VR unique. Games have rules that differ from reality because the extent of the player's interaction is whatever can be mapped to a button press, VR closes that gap by making interaction with the world intuitive and easy to understand, you move a box by reaching out and picking it up, you open things by grabbing and opening them, you toss things by actually throwing it, etc, everything is something you do, not an action that happens by itself after a button press. Changing these is changing the entire game. Of course it would be just another normal game then, it's literally taking out what makes VR different to flatscreen games.

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I know VR is different from non VR. I'm halfway through the game, I have VR. I just think that with some edits it could be made into a non VR game, and I don't think they'll ever make those edits because they have no reason to.

If it was made by any other developer than valve I'd fully expect a non VR version. The sales potential is so much greater for a non VR game.

 

[Yippiekai]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I shouldn't really need to explain why VR is different. Alyx represents a significant shift in the way a Half-Life game is played. People didn't have a problem with Half-Life 1's sequels because they were already accustomed to how the games played.

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Maybe you should explain then because it's not relevant that "VR is different". Outside of the headset, the only different thing VR does is motion gaming. The shit that sold truckloads of Wii. It's pretty much it. You control the camera by looking and your hands by moving yours. It's as simple as that. A ton of franchises changed in order to implement new technologies, new way of playing and new mechanics. If people want to play Half life 2: The expansion, I'm sure you can find those kind of things online. If the VR removed options from the game, I would understand it but it's far from it.

Most people don't have an issue about how Alyx is played. They have an issue because they don't have the means to play it.

 

[Polk]

Just as an interesting thought experiment—what if it was a motion-control game, but still on a flat screen? So, you'd still have the Index controllers or something equally good, as well as some for of head tracking (maybe a Kinect?), but you're just playing on a TV.

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Sure with things like TrackIR looking around would be possible (maybe less crouching). But disconnect between your head and hands movement range I think would make game really hard to control.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Maybe you should explain then because it's not relevant that "VR is different". Outside of the headset, the only different thing VR does is motion gaming. The shit that sold truckloads of Wii. It's pretty much it. You control the camera by looking and your hands by moving yours. It's as simple as that. A ton of franchises changed in order to implement new technologies, new way of playing and new mechanics. If people want to play Half life 2: The expansion, I'm sure you can find those kind of things online. If the VR removed options from the game, I would understand it but it's far from it.

Most people don't have an issue about how Alyx is played. They have an issue because they don't have the means to play it.

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That is the first time I've seen anyone defend VR while simultaneously downplaying its significance. :\

I don't think many VR fans will agree with you. Many seem to disagree with comparing it with the Wii after all!

 

[Quample]

Price of entry isn't the only issue. Lack of room is one thing (I'm wondering if I'll have enough for it, when/if I get an Index.)

There may be health issues to consider. I've been reluctant to share this before because, well, I feel it's personal (and the way some VR fanatics attack such issues can be fucking annoying to say the least!) but I have asthma and my doctor speculated I may have bronchiectasis too; I can get out of breath fast. Even just playing Super Mario Galaxy 2 last year I noticed my breathing became unusually strained after a while, and that was from being sat down and simply waggling a Wii remote. It's a problem I wouldn't have any concerns about if a non-VR version of Alyx existed alongside the VR version (I have no trouble playing Black Mesa, nor had I any trouble playing any previous game in the Half-Life series, though I was in better health back then!)

Or people may simply not want to play a new Half-Life in VR even if they do have the money to throw at it. After all, for all this speak about Alyx being built from the ground up for VR, the previous four entries in the series were not. It shouldn't be difficult to see (and respect!) why some, many even, don't like it when a series shifts from being one thing to something else, particularly in this case - utterly different. It inevitably fractures a fan base.

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You can play seated with one hand, and hell even with 1 eye. More and more devs are making the games accessible to as many people as possible...when they aren't it's most likely a question of budget.

As far as fracturing the fan base, remember that at a certain point, PC games started requiring the purchase of a graphics card. I think Doom or Quake was one of the first big games to require it, and I'm sure people were pissed. But it was necessary. Also, I know it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, but think about console gens. You have to buy the new console to play the new game. VR is slightly different than a new console, but it's mainly because the tech is still new and people may have doubts about the value they're getting because of that. But that's also what makes it so exciting! Growing pains are going to happen with fundamentally new tech.

Sure, maybe Valve could have chosen a new IP for their VR game, but VR is what drove Valve want to get back to Half Life. Innovation is at the basis of every Half Life game, and the world/mechanics/storytelling style was a perfect fit.

 

[Jobbs]

Sure, maybe Valve could have chosen a new IP for their VR game, but VR is what drove Valve want to get back to Half Life. Innovation is at the basis of every Half Life game, and the world/mechanics/storytelling style was a perfect fit.

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What does innovation mean exactly in this case? I keep hearing it but I don't understand, because even though I like alyx, I can't identify any mechanics or aspects of the gameplay that are actually new. It's just a bunch of stuff other VR games have already done-- with AAA production values. Yes, in Alyx, the animations are better and the fit and finish are better than other VR games I've played, but it's the same stuff. Just before playing Alyx I played Saints and Sinners, which features *many* of the same gameplay mechanics as Alyx. Explore, open drawers for loot, reach over your shoulder to store things, reload weapons manually by putting the bullets in, zombies coming at you while you do this, same movement options, etc. Same stuff. Alyx is better, I'd argue, but it's not blazing any kind of new trail.

And all that's fine. I don't really care if something is *new* or not, but I don't understand why they see fit to do this after never finishing their episodic story that ended on a cliffhanger more than a decade ago.

 

[Menchin]

With the way the game's played, I don't see how you'd be able to make a non-VR version and not have it be utter dogshit to play

 

[Yippiekai]

That is the first time I've seen anyone defend VR while simultaneously downplaying its significance. :\

I don't think many VR fans will agree with you. Many seem to disagree with comparing it with the Wii after all!

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"Outside of the headset, the only different thing VR does is motion gaming".
"Outside of the headset".

VR is all about immersion. That what the headset is about. Immersion is what game makers want to do with their narrative games for years and couldn't completely. It's the biggest thing VR can do and continuously do. Outside of that, you play the games with motion controllers. Which is the same as the Wii. So I don't see why you can't compare them, if you just compare the means of controlling the character.

But hey, the only thing you prove from the start is only trying to attack the parts that you don't really understand in an argument while silently acknowledging the rest. Fine by me.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Quample]

What does innovation mean exactly in this case? I keep hearing it but I don't understand, because even though I like alyx, I can't identify any mechanics or aspects of the gameplay that are actually new. It's just a bunch of stuff other VR games have already done-- with AAA production values. Yes, in Alyx, the animations are better and the fit and finish are better than other VR games I've played, but it's the same stuff. Just before playing Alyx I played Saints and Sinners, which features *many* of the same gameplay mechanics as Alyx. Explore, open drawers for loot, reach over your shoulder to store things, reload weapons manually by putting the bullets in, zombies coming at you while you do this, same movement options, etc. Same stuff. Alyx is better, I'd argue, but it's not blazing any kind of new trail.

And all that's fine. I don't really care if something is *new* or not, but I don't understand why they see fit to do this after never finishing their episodic story that ended on a cliffhanger more than a decade ago.

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Innovation means stealing others' ideas and using your higher level of influence as an advantage ;)

Just kidding (mostly), Valve was there at the beginning of VR, but I just see Alyx as the conglomeration of lessons learned in the past half decade or so put into an extremely polished high budget game. It's a game that I see as greater than the sum of its parts because it utilizes the strengths and minimizes the constraints of this new tech in a lot of the right places. I've been playing VR since the CV1 released and I realize things like weapon mechanics have been done as good or better elsewhere, but I see Alyx as the game made by the right company at the right place/right time to put everything together into something that exhibits to the masses what VR can do.

 

[Deleted member 437]

Would somehow hacking 2 of those vr controllers but no headset still work?

So you at least have the controls.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Sure, maybe Valve could have chosen a new IP for their VR game, but VR is what drove Valve want to get back to Half Life. Innovation is at the basis of every Half Life game, and the world/mechanics/storytelling style was a perfect fit.

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Half-Life wasn't Valve's first choice for this game. If it weren't for concerns about Portal VR making people sick, Half-Life would probably still be effectively dead. It just happened to be the next best candidate they had to attach to a big VR game. In this case, and as you point out actually, it's VR that's driving their enthusiasm for innovation, not so much Half-Life.

But hey, the only thing you prove from the start is only trying to attack the parts that you don't really understand in an argument while silently acknowledging the rest. Fine by me.

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Could you elaborate on whatever parts I supposedly don't understand?

 

[Aegus]

Back in 1996 were people asking Super Mario 64 players if a 2D version was possible?

 

[Polk]

Would somehow hacking 2 of those vr controllers but no headset still work?

So you at least have the controls.

Click to shrink...

What about looking around without additional hardware (like trackir)?

 

[Quample]

Half-Life wasn't Valve's first choice for this game. If it weren't for concerns about Portal VR making people sick, Half-Life would probably still be effectively dead. It just happened to be the next best candidate they had to attach to a big VR game. In this case, and as you point out actually, it's VR that's driving their enthusiasm for innovation, not so much Half-Life.

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I know Valve said they were experimenting with Portal, but where did they say it was their first choice? All I said was VR drove Valve to make a Half Life game again. They were also working on 2 other VR games until recently. They probably tried a ton of different experiments, but they were happy with Half Life because it fit what they were going for. Not to mention Gabe has said in multiple interviews that the Half Life franchise has always been about solving new problems.

 

[Quample]

Back in 1996 were people asking Super Mario 64 players if a 2D version was possible?

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Probably not, but if you're asserting that there's a good reason why people are asking for a non-VR version of Alyx, you have to realize the difference (if you're not, my bad, but I suppose it's still a point worth making). N64 was still a standard console with a similar input/video output. Also, when you saw Mario 64 being played, it was the same thing you saw when you played it. VR does not have the same advantage...you have to experience it to see what it's actually like.

 

[c0Zm1c]

I know Valve said they were experimenting with Portal, but where did they say it was their first choice? All I said was VR drove Valve to make a Half Life game again. They were also working on 2 other VR games until recently. They probably tried a ton of different experiments, but they were happy with Half Life because it fit what they were going for. Not to mention Gabe has said in multiple interviews that the Half Life franchise has always been about solving new problems.

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The interview with Geoff Keighley from last year. They said they looked at "both Portal and Half-Life" but the way David Speyrer worded it "then we looked at Half-Life" after talking about Portal points to it having been the first choice.

 

[eonden]

The interview with Geoff Keighley from last year. They said they looked at "both Portal and Half-Life" but the way David Speyrer worded it "then we looked at Half-Life" after talking about Portal points to it having been the first choice.

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You should watch this video:



They basically looked at ALL of their IPs as a starting base of what could give them a headstart on VR. When they looked at Portal they basically stopped looking at it very fast because it would need huge reworks that made the point moot.

 

[c0Zm1c]

You should watch this video:



They basically looked at ALL of their IPs as a starting base of what could give them a headstart on VR. When they looked at Portal they basically stopped looking at it very fast because it would need huge reworks that made the point moot.

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Thanks, I will. (When I get an hour!)

 

[MrCibb]

It's feasible and I'm sure it would be fun, but it'd be quite the undertaking. It wouldn't be as simple as 'remove VR', a lot more would need done to the game since VR is deeply integrated unlike something like Resident Evil 7 where it can be flipped on or off. But hey, there's creative, skilled people out there. There's some incredible mods out there that took years and years to create. If a talented team put their heads to it, I'm sure it can be done. Just depends on whether this attracts that kind of attention. So who knows.

 

[Deleted member 10726]

Maybe as an on-rails shooter type of thing, but it'd massively ruin the experience. At that point you might as well just watch a playthrough on YouTube.

 

[Cheesetriangles]

I think someone will try to make a non VR mode but it would be terrible and not even close to the same game.

 

[Axon]

Not without compromising the experience to such a degree that the endeavour would be close to pointless.

 

[Deleted member 17860]

lol

it took 2 days

 

[Jamesac68]

lol

it took 2 days

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Haven't beaten the game yet so not watching a video with the word "datamine" in it's title. Two days for what?

 

[Randomly Generated]

lol

it took 2 days

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You think that would be fun for 15 hours?

 

[Deleted member 27315]

No

 

[BarnabyJones]

I'll be honest, before playing the game I had my doubts playing a Half Life game in VR. As a lifelong fan of the series and having just finished it today, I wouldn't have it any other way. There are just so many things that push VR in this game & Valve takes full advantage at every opportunity. Even if there is a kb/m option, it will 100% be inferior. VR is becoming more accessible and there are plenty of affordable options to buy in. This is the way to experience the return of the series we've all waited so many years for. It was one of the best game experiences I've ever had.