Going back to the N64 was a sad experience lmao

[MoogleMaestro]

Keep in mind the snes could and often did run in variable frame rate. The game ran in what some of us perceived as slow motion, but it was mostly playable and at the time we accepted it as it was. You can see this in megaman x and even some areas of link to the past.

3d in the era of the n64 was also approached with this same mind set. These days we have the perception of a standard frame rate of 30 to 60 and maintain that. At the time though, we were all acclimatized to games dropping frame rate so a slowdown here or there was just accepted.

 

[rainz]

I remember playing Extreme G 2 or 3 in 4 player splitscreen, and goddamn that thing chugged! We must have been down in the single digits for sure, yet somehow we persevered. At least they gave the option of split screen back in the day!

 

[Madao]

The only game on the whole system that still perfectly holds up and hasn't been released in a better fashion is Paper Mario.

Prove me wrong.

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OP already proved you wrong with F-Zero X.

 

[Weiss]

OP already proved you wrong with F-Zero X.

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GX is better.

 

[Madao]

GX is better.

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not necessarily. X does some things better.

also, that has nothing to do with what i was responding to. we were talking about Paper Mario for N64 (many would argue the sequel is better) but it was about re-releases and both games haven't got a better re-release (their VC releases are sideways improvements at best) and both of them hold up really good (i'd say FZX holds up better because it is 60 fps. the framerate in Paper Mario isn't that great)

 

[Deleted member 11413]

GX is better.

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What about Wave Race? Custom Robo v2?

 

[G_O]

It still has the best 3D mario and maro kart game. I don't see how anyone can argue that

 

[Weiss]

What about Wave Race? Custom Robo v2?

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Wave Race still holds up so well it could get re-released today with no change?

 

[Madao]

It still has the best 3D mario and maro kart game. I don't see how anyone can argue that

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i don't think the bolded is true anymore. the newest Mario Karts destroy MK64. i'll concede it was better than MKDD though.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Keep in mind the snes could and often did run in variable frame rate. The game ran in what some of us perceived as slow motion, but it was mostly playable and at the time we accepted it as it was. You can see this in megaman x and even some areas of link to the past.

3d in the era of the n64 was also approached with this same mind set. These days we have the perception of a standard frame rate of 30 to 60 and maintain that. At the time though, we were all acclimatized to games dropping frame rate so a slowdown here or there was just accepted.

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Not only that but every system on the market at the time had framerates issues with 3D games. You can see this with a ton of PS1 and Saturn games. However, both systems had a lot of 2D games and also slower-paced genres that N64 lacked, so the low framerates aren't associated with those systems as much.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Wave Race still holds up so well it could get re-released today with no change?

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It got released on VC twice that way. If you are asking if I'd prefer a higher framerate then yeah of course, but it's still fun today.

Custom Robo 1 and v2 absolutely hold up just fine today without the need for any changes. They are also better than the Gamecube release as well imo.

 

[Weiss]

It got released on VC twice that way. If you are asking if I'd prefer a higher framerate then yeah of course, but it's still fun today.

Custom Robo 1 and v2 absolutely hold up just fine today without the need for any changes. They are also better than the Gamecube release as well imo.

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I don't mean just fun to go back to warts and all, I mean any game from that console gen that you can look at and think "nothing about this needs to be changed*." To me, at least, the N64 has aged very poorly compared to the PS1.

*Well, other than resolution I guess. That can always be better.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I don't mean just fun to go back to warts and all, I mean any game from that console gen that you can look at and think "nothing about this needs to be changed*." To me, at least, the N64 has aged very poorly compared to the PS1.

*Well, other than resolution I guess. That can always be better.

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Ah, ok, in that case I stand by Custom Robo, HM64, Mario 64, and Mischief Makers. Maybe Goemon's Great Adventure, but I can't remember if the framerate is bad or not in that game.

Actually Smash 64 holds up too, super fun game. The subsequent releases are 'better' but also so different that they don't really replace the original for me.

 

[Teenage Fansub]

Do things have to be without flaws to be enjoyable?

I couldn't just play the best of the best top tier most polished stuff without eventually getting bored.

 

[Shadow of the Void]

By far, I think Gamecube is the best library on a Nintendo system while NES is the worst.

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Really? It had a ton of gems on it, including some of the greatest games of all time. Here's a timeline of the ones that stood out to me personally or were well-received critically and/or commercially.

• 1985: Super Mario Bros., Duck Hunt, Excitebike
• 1986: Gradius, Mario Bros., Ghosts & Goblins, 1942, Commando
• 1987: The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Mega Man, Castlevania, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, Kid Icarus, Wizards & Warriors, Rad Racer
• 1988: Super Mario Bros. 2, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Contra, R.C. Pro-Am, Blaster Master, Metal Gear, Double Dragon, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, Life Force, Adventure Island, Bubble Bobble, Bionic Commando, Skate or Die
• 1989: Dragon Warrior, Ninja Gaiden, Mega Man 2, DuckTales, Tetris, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Gyruss, Ultima III: Exodus, Adventures of Lolo, Legacy of the Wizard, Monster Party, Cobra Triangle, Faxanadu, Super Dodge Ball, Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II, Shadowgate
• 1990: Super Mario Bros. 3, Final Fantasy, Mega Man 3, River City Ransom, Double Dragon II, Super C, Batman: The Video Game, Ninja Gaiden II, Castlevania III, Dragon Warrior II, StarTropics, TMNT II: The Arcade Game, Nintendo World Cup, A Boy and His Blob, Crystalis, Ultima IV
• 1991: Battletoads, Ninja Gaiden III, Metal Storm, Power Blade, Batman: Return of the Joker
• 1992: Mega Man 4, TMNT III: The Manhattan Project, Dragon Warrior III, Dragon Warrior IV

That's like 70 games right there. Considering that the industry was smaller, with fewer games being published, having that many games that were worthy of people's time was a remarkable achievement. Many of them still hold up to this day.

 

[Shadow of the Void]

Oh, and regarding the N64, it had some amazing games on it that are still fun to this day. Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox 64, and Perfect Dark are still among my favorite games ever, and it also had good titles like GoldeneEye 007, Ocarina of Time, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Blast Corps, F-Zero X, Rogue Squadron, and Doom 64. It wasn't nearly the beast of a library of those of the NES and SNES, but it was still a great system with fun games at a time when the industry was largely fumbling its way through the dawn of full 3D polygonal worlds.

 

[Deleted member 59109]

Really? It had a ton of gems on it, including some of the greatest games of all time. Here's a timeline of the ones that stood out to me personally or were well-received critically and/or commercially.

• 1985: Super Mario Bros., Duck Hunt, Excitebike
• 1986: Gradius, Mario Bros., Ghosts & Goblins, 1942, Commando
• 1987: The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Mega Man, Castlevania, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, Kid Icarus, Wizards & Warriors, Rad Racer
• 1988: Super Mario Bros. 2, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Contra, R.C. Pro-Am, Blaster Master, Metal Gear, Double Dragon, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, Life Force, Adventure Island, Bubble Bobble, Bionic Commando, Skate or Die
• 1989: Dragon Warrior, Ninja Gaiden, Mega Man 2, DuckTales, Tetris, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Gyruss, Ultima III: Exodus, Adventures of Lolo, Legacy of the Wizard, Monster Party, Cobra Triangle, Faxanadu, Super Dodge Ball, Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II, Shadowgate
• 1990: Super Mario Bros. 3, Final Fantasy, Mega Man 3, River City Ransom, Double Dragon II, Super C, Batman: The Video Game, Ninja Gaiden II, Castlevania III, Dragon Warrior II, StarTropics, TMNT II: The Arcade Game, Nintendo World Cup, A Boy and His Blob, Crystalis, Ultima IV
• 1991: Battletoads, Ninja Gaiden III, Metal Storm, Power Blade, Batman: Return of the Joker
• 1992: Mega Man 4, TMNT III: The Manhattan Project, Dragon Warrior III, Dragon Warrior IV

That's like 70 games right there. Considering that the industry was smaller, with fewer games being published, having that many games that were worthy of people's time was a remarkable achievement. Many of them still hold up to this day.

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I would disagree with them holding up. Personally, I think they're really archaic graphically and gameplay wise and aren't very fun to play.

 

[Wariobenotware]

The N64 still has some games worth playing. (Mario 64,SF64,Wave Race 64, F- Zero X, Paper Mario, PD) But most of these games are deeply flawed in pretty obvious ways. The flaws were there from day one but people forgave them because WOW 3D!

Don't bother with the N64 unless you plan to play the it on a CRT with S-video or RGB and specifically only the NTSC versions of these games. Anything else and it quickly crosses into the realm of unplayable. Especially without nostalgia to overlook some of the crappy design. Even if these games were good, there isn't anything there to make most of them better than much of what is available today. Actually no, not even much better than what was available back then on other systems.

Generally with some exceptions Gen 5 was an extremely important one for the gaming industry but looking back it might have been the worst one overall. It is sandwiched between two vastly superior console generations that it sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't imagine anyone new to gaming enjoying 95% of the catalogue that the systems from this era have to offer.

It still has the best 3D mario and maro kart game. I don't see how anyone can argue that

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This could be argued pretty easily. Especially since MK64 was the worst Mario Kart even back then and complete trash compared to something like CTR.

 

[AMAGON]

You just didn't play the right games OP.

*Takes cigar out of mouth and smothers it in ash tray*

Now Rakuga kids and Wonder project j2, those are the games you want to try.

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Ahhh, I see you are a man of culture.

 

[Inugami]

Only Megaman Legends 1 figured something workable out before then.

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And even then they copied Mario64's homework for the sequel. (I love me my legends games, mechanical flaws and all)

 

[kurt]

The only game on the whole system that still perfectly holds up and hasn't been released in a better fashion is Paper Mario.

Prove me wrong.

Click to shrink...

Killer instinct gold is 60fps and is still (imo) best fighting game there is.

 

[Joeshabadoo]

Blast Corps doesn't get enough love

anyone remember Body Harvest? Fairly trash game, but something about the atmosphere was bleak enough to leave an impression on youngish me

 

[Dark1x]

Doom 64 still holds up beautifully - one of the most playable games on the system. It looks, sounds and plays wonderfully.

 

[Varjet]

I started playing Turok 2 this weekend.
Yeah, the framerate leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm still having fun.

 

[Glimlocker]

This is the same with most 3D graphics from that generation.

I choose the blur filter over constantly warping and shifting polygons.

I think the greatest gift for gaming I have is not caring about framerates - unless it's like 10 FPS or something.

It's an excellent system with amazing games, but going back to play any early 3D console can be painful - but also keep in mind few retro games can hold up to modern QoL.

 

[DarkFlame92]

This is probably the biggest surprise every time I replay Mario 64. Aside from the camera being a little wonky it feels perfect. How the hell did they do this?

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All it needs is an HD remake,same as Ocarina. These 2 games are timeless.

 

[jdh96]

It's funny to me the mass amount of people that shit on the n64 nowadays yet, you see no one ever complaining about the ps1.

 

[Wariobenotware]

Doom 64 still holds up beautifully - one of the most playable games on the system. It looks, sounds and plays wonderfully.

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You can barely see it though.

 

[eraFROMAN]

Doom 64 still holds up beautifully - one of the most playable games on the system. It looks, sounds and plays wonderfully.

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Never got to play it; I've got it wishlisted on Switch though. Is the modern version a big upgrade like the 360 version of PD? And is the level design tight like Doom 1? I don't know if I can take getting super lost like in Turok 2, lol

Edit: Recieved code (from a cherished ex co-worker) for Doom 64 on PC, looks like I'll be finding out myself lol

 

[Iztok]

Sounds like you mostly had a good experience, though?

Framerate is the biggest issue I have with N64 these days, which is why I prefer to emulate it (even though I still keep an N64 connected to a CRT).

 

[Iztok]

I don't see how Mario 64 is ugly. It still looks good imo

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I still find it beautiful, personally.

Much better looking than any of it's "realistic" looking contemporaries. Cartoon art style has longevity.

 

[Traxus]

It's funny to me the mass amount of people that shit on the n64 nowadays yet, you see no one ever complaining about the ps1.

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Nah, lol. I made a thread recently about FFVII's art style and plenty of posters were ready to throw the entire PS1 library in the garbage. I think the early 3d aesthetic is generally difficult for some to appreciate.

Eg.

Yeah no. The 5th gen doesn't hold up at all graphically, PS1 and N64 games universally look absolutely atrocious today (except the 2D stuff like Paper Mario)

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I always hated the ps1 look, as I started gaming with 3D and the N64. So I never liked it, it looked bad when it released.

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Looks dreadful. All PS1 games look dreadful.

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[jdh96]

Nah, lol. I made a thread recently about FFVII's art style and plenty of posters were ready to throw the entire PS1 library in the garbage. I think the early 3d aesthetic is generally difficult for some to appreciate.

Eg.

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I guess graphics aren't a priority to me, tbh the only game i ever avoided due to graphics was the original Xenoblade Chronicles.

 

[jett]

Wave Race still holds up so well it could get re-released today with no change?

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Wave Race 64 is still the best watercraft racing game ever made.

 

[Dark1x]

You can barely see it though.

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That depends on the display being used. It's a great game to show how awful older LCDs are, though. They can't resolve the image properly so you just get a face full of backlight.

 

[Stef]

Regardless of dated graphics/framerate, to me the most hard impact in coming back to a Nintendo 64 console has been the joypad.

It simply felt somehow... "wrong".

 

[Mariolee]

I remember the first time playing WaveRace at my neighbor's house and being just completely blown away by it. The water physics and the bouncing were something I couldn't deal with as a child. Even now, I look at it and I'm just astounded by what they pulled off with the early N64 games. Sure, there were months waits between games but Nintendo consistently delivered at the time.

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I remember my dad bought this game specifically because he and I had so much fun on the jet skis at Chuck E Cheese and he wanted to bring that home.

God I loved this game.

 

[Mekanos]

I just think obsessing over the technical roughness of the graphics are weird. It's like complaining about black and white movies, but even weirder because we were actually alive to experience these games when they were brand spanking new and not old films our grandmas watched. Games like Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie and OOT still have a masterful art style that clearly communicates to the player the world they explore and renders the iconic characters in recognizable ways. The games that try to be "realistic" looking like Goldeneye obviously are less prone to aging well, but I just can't think of anyone playing these games and being upset that they don't match modern graphics... like, do you revisit old media at all? Do you consider Toy Story unwatchable?

I don't get it.

 

[LiftGammaGain]

Nothing could have prepared me for Super Mario 64. My mind was blown away. The first time i gently pressed forward on the analog stick to make Mario walk will stay with me for the rest of my life. I have never, ever felt nothing close in 3D games till this day.
Also Blast Corps was super fun at the time.

 

[Celine]

I remember the first time playing WaveRace at my neighbor's house and being just completely blown away by it. The water physics and the bouncing were something I couldn't deal with as a child. Even now, I look at it and I'm just astounded by what they pulled off with the early N64 games. Sure, there were months waits between games but Nintendo consistently delivered at the time.

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I'm always annoyed when the talks about the N64's launch period revolves exclusively around Super Mario 64.
Both Wave Race 64 and Pilotwings 64 were well ahead of their time and deserve to be remembered.

 

[Deleted member 11276]

Yep. And today we whine we have less than 60 FPS.

 

[tadaima]

The only game on the whole system that still perfectly holds up and hasn't been released in a better fashion is Paper Mario.

Prove me wrong.

Click to shrink...

Diddy Kong Racing runs at 30fps and holds up against all modern day kart racers not named Mario Kart.

The DS remake was poop.

 

[LiftGammaGain]

Did someone say the NES/Famicom has the worst library of a Nintendo system? Now I've heard everything. Jesus Christ.

 

[Teenage Fansub]

Diddy Kong Racing runs at 30fps

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I played it today, and it doesn't spend much time at 30.

 

[eraFROMAN]

I don't get it.

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I love revisiting old media, in fact I had set up my Genesis as well and didn't have much issue with it. The problems come up because of the interactivity; the general simplicity of 2D games makes them easier to play and enjoy. If a dev was struggling to figure out 3D, I'll have to struggle with them to play, and that extends past visuals. Like my Turok 2 example; the framerate is bung, but the giant, unmarked, collectible filled maps make playing a literal chore, which 8 year old me didn't notice because I'd just put in cheats and warp. I can way more easily go back to old movies and other media, past initial setup they take care of themselves, but if I loved a story that was on several scrolls, returning to it after having bound books would probably be similar.

 

[Aether]

Super Mario 64:
Uuuuuuh how'd they do this day one? It's a little ugly now, but it plays perfectly today and is still a ton of fun. It's not as far removed from Odyssey as I had thought either.

But cumulatively, every game was very soft visually and game design of the time was very inconvenient. I feel a little less joy with the system now, and have packed it up for basically eternity at this point. I think the controller is fine, but there's really only a few great games on the system now, and there's better ways to play them. If the games were rereleased on Switch, they really need remasters or remakes, because in their original form, these games are better left in their time. (To me, anyway.)

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Yeah, the N64 could do amazing things... but it also could look butt ugly. I have a soft spot for its...unique take on 3d, just like the PS1, since after that everything blends together since it was decided whats the way to go.

@Mario64: thes developed the game and the console with the same people. And then the console got pushed back, since they werent ready. It is essentially the tool that was used to develop the n64, and with that they had time and reason to do it as perfect as it gets, for back then. Thats why it was so revolutionary, no other developer had the budget, knowledge, and influence to pour such an amount in fine tuning a maskot platformer. They new they need to hit it out of the park.

@ soft: a lot of games were badly made and hat a draw distance of 2 feet in front of your character, and the rest was fog. We have examples of game that dont have that (zelda...), but thats one thing.
Another thing: the n64 was not advanced/strong enough for good anti aliassing, and the resolution was really low. Because of that, the n64 has a softening filter... or as some would say: a vaseline filter. It has its own look, and im a bit nostalgic for it, but objectivelythe decision is highly questionable.I think there were some games that had an option to dissable this? im not shure. On small CRTs i think it looks okay and hides the low res, but on bigger ones it can look reeeealy soft.

 

[Deleted member 17210]

Wave Race 64 is still the best watercraft racing game ever made.

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Yep. It's actually pretty frustrating there hasn't been one to surpass it given how long ago that was.

 

[jett]

Yep. It's actually pretty frustrating there hasn't been one to surpass it given how long ago that was.

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It's a miraculous game. Nintendo nailed an extremely difficult thing on their try.

 

[Aether]

Yep. It's actually pretty frustrating there hasn't been one to surpass it given how long ago that was.

Click to shrink...

It's a miraculous game. Nintendo nailed an extremely difficult thing on their try.

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So wave race blue storm is worse?
I was interested in both... but not enough to emulate them, and especially not to track them down.
But if they port it (N64 Online, or a port of Blue Storm,...) i would like to try them.

 

[jett]

So wave race blue storm is worse?
I was interested in both... but not enough to emulate them, and especially not to track them down.
But if they port it (N64 Online, or a port of Blue Storm,...) i would like to try them.

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To me, it's worse. It made handling the jetskis unnecessarily more difficult and complicated. In WR64 riding and sliding on the water and through the waves feels smooth and kind of wonderful. In WRBS the controls are a constant struggle and it feels like your jetski is crashing against the water. WRBS feels aggressive while WR64 feels relaxing. It's a really different approach. Track design is also inferior, personally I don't like how they placed the buoys around the maps.