George Lucas explaining why Anakin says "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil."

Mar Tuuk · Sep 7, 2019

Anakin does have a point. The Jedi in the prequels (the council specifically) were ignorant, corrupt, and lost their way by becoming too political/ leading in the military.
Anakin's faith in them was lost when he saw no difference between them and Sidious. This is one reason why I loved ROTS.

Hell even at the beginning of TPM. The Senate sent two Jedi KNIGHTS to settle a dispute over a blockade. These knights are notorious as warriors. This provoked the Trade Federation. The Senate should've used actual negotiators instead of KNIGHTS trained as warriors who're known to even control minds.

Maybe not evil, but the Jedi Council were certainly ignorant/ too political and even Qui Gon knew it by not joining the council.

Also to all of the both sides people in here:

The republic was freaking corrupt as heck and there were planets, who genuinely believed in the Separatists.

Syder · Sep 7, 2019

excelsiorlef said:
It's still impressive that in a trilogy whose only purpose was to show why Anakin became Vader Lucas managed to still make it feel rushed and totally unearned

Anakin and Obi-Wan are still having happy, fun times an hour into the third movie in the trilogy.

That business on Cato Neimoidia doesn't, doesn't count.

scitek · Sep 7, 2019

I just had a problem with Anakin instantly going from wanting to save his wife to nonchalantly murdering children.

excelsiorlef · Sep 7, 2019

Syder said:
Anakin and Obi-Wan are still having happy, fun times an hour into the third movie in the trilogy.

That business on Cato Neimoidia doesn't, doesn't count.

It's fucking madness.

1 and 2 are utterly pointless almost in terms of Anakin

You could just watch Episode III and you'd basically get the Anaktin descent and not be lost

DeliciousSunnyD! · Sep 7, 2019

And another thing about the dialogue/lines being bad and chock full of simple vocabulary, such as "I hate sand!" and "I hate you!". Language regression and simple articulation is often one of the key indicators of a culture/society in decay and on the path towards authoritarianism.

Lunar Wolf · Sep 7, 2019

Stiler said:
Don't really see how you can say they are both "evil" when one side is murdering younglings...

I mean there's really no way to do a "not truly evil, morally grey" take on that, it felt so out of place and was just so damn terrible.

Star Wars itself has fairly clear good and evil sides, it's never really did a "Maybe these guys are good or maybe they are bad, it's different depending on your point of view." It's usually been a clear cut "Evil side" vs "Good side" with a character themselves that might change or get brought back a bit to the other side (in the case of Vader in TESB).

scitek said:
I just had a problem with Anakin instantly going from wanting to save his wife to nonchalantly murdering children.

It's not like it was first time.

He murdered children as a Jedi too.

Calvarok · Sep 7, 2019

oh wow so people will just have the most literal and shallow possible interpretation of all media until the creator "confirms" that subtext is "canon"?

this was obvious, but folks gotta meme everything up until they forget how to view it in context.

Mona · Sep 7, 2019

kiguel182 said:
Glad George is explaining us the intricacies of the writing in the prequels. Such a complex text to analyze.

Akainu · Sep 7, 2019

Didn't they ignore his mother being a slave and did nothing when she was dying?

scitek · Sep 7, 2019

The Gunslinger said:
It's not like it was first time.

He murdered children as a Jedi too.

You're right, I forgot there was a single line alluding to something similar that happened off-screen in the previous movie.

Good Kid mAAd Poster · Sep 7, 2019

Fantastapotamus said:
Oh right, let me rephrase it then

*murders a bunch of children*
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil"

Doesn't matter. Jedi are also evil that's his point. Light and dark side are all the same. Both are flawed.

Reven Wolf · Sep 7, 2019

NyMartin90 said:
Anakin does have a point. The Jedi in the prequels (the council specifically) were ignorant, corrupt, and lost their way by becoming too political/ leading in the military.
Anakin's faith in them was lost when he saw no difference between them and Sidious. This is one reason why I loved ROTS.

Hell even at the beginning of TPM. The Senate sent two Jedi KNIGHTS to settle a dispute over a blockade. These knights are notorious as warriors. This provoked the Trade Federation. The Senate should've used actual negotiators instead of KNIGHTS trained as warriors who're known to even control minds.

Maybe not evil, but the Jedi Council were certainly ignorant/ too political and even Qui Gon knew it by not joining the council.

Also to all of the both sides people in here:

The republic was freaking corrupt as heck and there were planets, who genuinely believed in the Separatists.

Yup, it's like I always said. George had some fantastic ideas for the prequels, which were all let down by the execution.

I know a condition of the buyout was that they don't remake the prequels, but I do feel that someone could take the majority of ideas in those movies and remake them into something truly fantastic.

I am a Bird · Sep 7, 2019

WascallyWabbit said:
You know I think I prefer back in the day when creators didn't explain too much shit about their work. I'm looking at Lucas and Rowling specifically

Lets not lump lucas into the rowling territory. George never felt the need to tell us where the jedi would poop. Or at least i hope not.

McScroggz · Sep 7, 2019

If that's what he was going for he did an absolutely terrible job at portraying it.

Dream Machine · Sep 7, 2019

I'm glad someone finally broke down the prose for me.

DeliciousSunnyD! · Sep 7, 2019

Akainu said:
Didn't they ignore his mother being a slave and did nothing when she was dying?

Yes, and they told him that loving someone else was nothing but a bad thing and to suppress his emotions.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Sep 7, 2019

Good Kid mAAd Poster said:
Doesn't matter. Jedi are also evil that's his point. Light and dark side are all the same. Both are flawed.

Yeah, murdering a bunch of children really is the same as "sitting in a room, being boring" which is pretty much all the Jedi did in the Prequels

loquaciousJenny · Sep 7, 2019

I am a Bird said:
Lets not lump lucas into the rowling territory. George never felt the need to tell us where the jedi would poop. Or at least i hope not.

We all know they fling their poops at each other with the force

Htown · Sep 7, 2019

NyMartin90 said:
Also to all of the both sides people in here:

The republic was freaking corrupt as heck and there were planets, who genuinely believed in the Separatists.

like 60% of what Clone Wars does is going back to fix the nonsense from the prequel movies

at the time "heroes on both sides" was part of the opening crawl, the Separatists were literally just the Evil Council of Villains, the bug people who were helping to build the death star, and killer robots

I feel like people give the prequel movies extra credit now for what got retroactively fixed in Clone Wars

as part of the movie trilogy, "heroes on both sides" was really dumb, because it had nothing to do with anything we saw before or after it showed up

Mar Tuuk · Sep 7, 2019

Fantastapotamus said:
Yeah, murdering a bunch of children really is the same as "sitting in a room, being boring"

If the one of the heads of the order is willing to say someone should be killed just as the sith do, that casts some doubt on the "code" they hold so true. Also the jedi literally became generals and soldiers in an army. I thought they were "keeper's of the peace not soldiers." The Jedi council was so hypocritical.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Sep 7, 2019

NyMartin90 said:
If the one of the heads of the order is willing to say someone should be killed just as the sith do, that casts some doubt on the "code" they hold so true. Also the jedi literally became generals and soldiers in an army. I thought they were "keeper's of the peace not soldiers." The Jedi council was so hypocritical.

I'd take a bunch of hypocrites over literal child murderes.

WascallyWabbit · Sep 7, 2019

I am a Bird said:
Lets not lump lucas into the rowling territory. George never felt the need to tell us where the jedi would poop. Or at least i hope not.

loquaciousJenny said:
We all know they fling their poops at each other with the force

Maybe the padiwans, but the masters poop disappears before it hits the ground, just like obi wan

Noodle · Sep 7, 2019

The Gunslinger said:
Yeah....I don't think Anakin cared about democracy at that point.

Literally seconds before to Padme: "Let's overthrow the Chancellor!"

NyMartin90 said:
Also to all of the both sides people in here:

The republic was freaking corrupt as heck and there were planets, who genuinely believed in the Separatists.

The cartoons made Dooku... cartoonishly evil in multiple episodes. I think in the one with the Droids vs Yoda episode Dooku tries to force a world to join the Separatists at gun points. And he has countless scooby-doo plots to inflict misery and mass-murder on random populations just because. One episode showing all the synonyms the writers found for the Coruscant setting doesn't erase that.

Mar Tuuk · Sep 7, 2019

Htown said:
like 60% of what Clone Wars does is going back to fix the nonsense from the prequel movies

at the time "heroes on both sides" was part of the opening crawl, the Separatists were literally just the Evil Council of Villains, the bug people who were helping to build the death star, and killer robots

I feel like people give the prequel movies extra credit now for what got retroactively fixed in Clone Wars

as part of the movie trilogy, "heroes on both sides" was really dumb, because it had nothing to do with anything we saw before or after it showed up

This is a problem with the prequels I do feel. I always felt before ROTS there should've been a live action Clone War movie.

Think about it POV's differ. General Grievous was seen as a hero, to Separatists. So was Dooku to the other side. How often did we see the separatist side other than Sidious' manipulations? Our POV in the films is based on main characters who're from a specific side.

Fantastapotamus said:
I'd take a bunch of hypocrites over literal child murderes.

The Jedi council caused all of this. They molded Anakin but forced him to be fearful of his double life because of the CODE. But in the end it turns out that the top Jedi (like Windu) can just forget about the code because of the "Greater Good." Tell me how many of those Jedi would allow Anakin to love if they found out? None, he'd be banished and expelled from the Jedi order. Sounds absolute to me and led him down this path. The council is who I blame for all of this.

Mar Tuuk · Sep 7, 2019

Noodle said:
Literally seconds before to Padme: "Let's overthrow the Chancellor!"

The cartoons made Dooku... cartoonishly evil in multiple episodes. I think in the one with the Droids vs Yoda episode Dooku tries to force a world to join the Separatists at gun points. And he has countless scooby-doo plots to inflict misery and mass-murder on random populations just because. One episode showing all the synonyms the writers found for the Coruscant setting doesn't erase that.

But does that also mean that there weren't systems genuinely in support of the separatists?

Mivey · Sep 7, 2019

SArcher said:
Hey, the ST is honoring this tradition with the last 2 films seemingly not building up to a confrontation with Palpatine at all.

The sequel trilogy has the (weak) defence that it was never about a clear thing, JJ made something up, then Rian Johnson made something up, and now JJ is going back to his idea of just copying the respective movies from the original trilogy (now Return of the Jedi, instead of New Hope, presumably).
George Lucas, on the other hand, had complete freedom in planning the three movies to be what he wanted them to. No corporate meddling, no one saying no to his ideas. All Lucas. .

Shelbyville Milhouse · Sep 7, 2019

NyMartin90 said:
The Jedi council caused all of this. They molded Anakin but forced him to be fearful of his double life because of the CODE. But in the end it turns out that the top Jedi (like Windu) can just forget about the code because of the "Greater Good." Tell me how many of those Jedi would allow Anakin to love if they found out? None, he'd be banished and expelled from the Jedi order. Sounds absolute to me and led him down this path. The council is who I blame for all of this.

Oh no, he'd be expelled from the order.
That's clearly equal to killing a bunch of children who had nothing to do with any of this.

I'm sorry but the whole "Jedi and Sith are both bad" thing was explored well in games like Kotor 2 but not at all in the films no matter how hard Lucas is trying to retroactively insert it. Here is everything the Jedi did wrong:
-Had a bad code
-Didn't always follow that code
-Were boring and stupid

And here is what the Sith did
-Murdered children
-Enslaved the galaxy
-Blew up a planet, killing billions

Yeah, those sound comparable to me.

Tranqueris · Sep 7, 2019

Fantastapotamus said:
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil"
*proceeds to murder a bunch of children*

Padme after said child murder fest:

Anakin you are breaking my heart! You are going down a path that I can't follow.

Going?

Archduke Kong · Sep 7, 2019

I never thought this was a line that needed to be explained, it seemed pretty obvious he was at odds with the Jedi council from the start and the further into Palpatine's circle he went, the more he viewed the people he was butting heads with negatively. It's one of the less nonsensical lines of dialogue from that trilogy.

Also these movies are hammy, silly messes. They're retroactively comedies. If the line made no sense, I'm not sure I'd want an answer.

T8SC · Sep 7, 2019

It's over, OP has the high ground.

Mar Tuuk · Sep 7, 2019

Fantastapotamus said:
Oh no, he'd be expelled from the order.
That's clearly equal to killing a bunch of children who had nothing to do with any of this.

I'm sorry but the whole "Jedi and Sith are both bad" thing was explored well in games like Kotor 2 but not at all in the films no matter how hard Lucas is trying to retroactively insert it. Here is everything the Jedi did wrong:
-Had a bad code
-Didn't always follow that code
-Were boring and stupid

And here is what the Sith did
-Murdered children
-Enslaved the galaxy
-Blew up a planet, killing billions

Yeah, those sound comparable to me.

Fair point, Lucas didn't show this well enough in the films at all. Corruption though is definitely on their list.

Also wouldn't we say that the Jedi helped the empire enslave the galaxy since they were generals in the Grand Army of the Republic/ Empire? They definitely helped the Empire grow territorially and take over planets, just they didn't know they were part of the plan. I guess that blood is on their hands too. Some of those planets didn't want to be part of the empire but since the Jedi helped the Republic take them over well they have no choice.

joecanada · Sep 7, 2019

SArcher said:
Rowling is honestly worse when ti comes to that.

What do the Jedi do with their shit? We must know

Ziltoidia 9 · Sep 7, 2019

Just needed a lot of rewriting of dialog.

Deleted member 21339 · Sep 7, 2019

Antrax said:
This is cringey.

I need to tag that FB group "I'm begging you, please read any other book"

There's no reason to trust that they'd have done such a thing. They also literally don't try any other solution.

Anakin drops his "someone should make them" line and we're supposed to act like he's crossing some line, but that's literally what the Jedi do.

"Those planets want to leave the Republic. Let's make ourselves the heads of the military and kill them for it." That's literally what the Jedi do. Yoda is the only one that even has the foresight to notice that this is a bad thing at the end of AotC (though he doesn't ultimately do anything to prevent it).

Who were the Trade Federation fighting on behalf of other than elite corporate interests? They weren't fighting out of principle or for the rule of the people

Antrax · Sep 7, 2019

JB1981 said:
Who were the Trade Federation fighting on behalf of other than elite corporate interests? They weren't fighting out of principle or for the rule of the people

The Trade Federation is the only Separatist entity that doesn't represent a planet. The rest do. Why should they be forced at gunpoint to stay in the Republic?

Deleted member 21339 · Sep 7, 2019

Antrax said:
The Trade Federation is the only Separatist entity that doesn't represent a planet. The rest do. Why should they be forced at gunpoint to stay in the Republic?

The Trade Federation has the army that the Galactic Republic is fighting. An army that mainly is backed by large corporations with a vested interested in perpetuating war. They don't represent the will of the people who .. separated from the Republic... do they? I'm not sure I follow what you mean that they don't represent a planet? Were there separatist planet factions also fighting against the Republic? If there were, I didn't see them in the movie.

Dark Knight · Sep 7, 2019

BossAttack said:
I mean, yeah. It's not that hard to understand. It's still poorly written.

If Anakin was intended to be a childish, witless simpleton then it was good writing!

Antrax · Sep 7, 2019

JB1981 said:
The Trade Federation has the army that the Galactic Republic is fighting. An army that mainly is backed by large corporations with a vested interested in perpetuating war. They don't represent the will of the people who .. separated from the Republic... do they? I'm not sure I follow what you mean that they don't represent a planet? Were there separatist planet factions also fighting against the Republic? If there were, I didn't see them in the movie.

No, the Trade Federation is just one entity that formed the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Most of them were planets. Not every planet wanted to stay in the Republic.

Coyote Zamora · Sep 7, 2019

DeliciousSunnyD! said:
Anakin is the average Star Wars fan, but yes, in a way.

Anakin is the Dylann Roof's of modern times.

Since it happened "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away..." Wouldn't he be the Dylann Roof of the ancient okay?

I am a Bird · Sep 8, 2019

loquaciousJenny said:
We all know they fling their poops at each other with the force

Where can one learn of this power?

loquaciousJenny · Sep 8, 2019

I am a Bird said:
Where can one learn of this power?

Look within yourself, you must

I am a Bird · Sep 8, 2019

loquaciousJenny said:
Look within yourself, you must

From my point of view the Jedi are flinging poo.

Steel · Sep 8, 2019

Zed said:
Anakin is an average American voter.

And Palps is Trump.

SturokBGD · Sep 8, 2019

DeliciousSunnyD! said:
And another thing about the dialogue/lines being bad and chock full of simple vocabulary, such as "I hate sand!" and "I hate you!". Language regression and simple articulation is often one of the key indicators of a culture/society in decay and on the path towards authoritarianism.

Wow, so George Lucas predicted social media?

phonicjoy · Sep 8, 2019

DeliciousSunnyD! said:
The fact that people can recall and quote it says, to me, that it is not a bad line. I used to be a Prequel hater, but I really do think the hammy stilted delivery of these films are deliberate. That they were intentionally made to generate passionate, reactionary responses from Original Trilogy fans. That they are meta-commentary on a post-Star Wars American culture and were made to intentionally spite the "passionate" fanbase.

Star Wars (and its ilk [large scale, identity defining pop culture multimedia properties]) is "The Phantom Menace" as hard to perceive force(s) of cultural danger and decay. Star Wars' influence on and replication within the mass culture is the "Attack of the Clones" (mass media consumerist properties that are suitable for all ages and consume people's lives on many levels, which are ultimately trivial distractions). The effects of this mass replication and large-scale, consuming fandoms allows for the "Revenge of the Sith" (democratic decay, open-faced corruption, with little in the way of effectual resistance and means of prevention due to a culture-at-large that is mostly apathetic and tuned out).

I highly doubt George .. Fucking .. Lucas.. had your fanfic in mind when farting out the prequels in the two weeks. Honestly man, he is an even more straight filmmaker that Abrams. Look at his output, then look at that ridiculous theory here.

Deleted member 16657 · Sep 8, 2019

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE YOUNGLINGS ARE THE REAL MURDERERS

UltraMagnus · Sep 8, 2019

PogChamp said:
FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE YOUNGLINGS ARE THE REAL MURDERERS

Admiral Woofington · Sep 8, 2019

PogChamp said:
FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE YOUNGLINGS ARE THE REAL MURDERERS

Rad Bandolar · Sep 8, 2019

I am a Bird said:
Lets not lump lucas into the rowling territory. George never felt the need to tell us where the jedi would poop. Or at least i hope not.

It's like that bit in AOTC where Anakin plays with the fruit, but with poop.

uncelestial · Sep 8, 2019

Okay now explain why he tried to get laid by comparing a woman to sand

George Lucas explaining why Anakin says "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil."

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