• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,186
You know what's funny, is that it's finally now sinking in, Game of Thrones is over? That was it. We will never see these actors play those characters again. The story is finished and everyone will move on. No more theorycrafting. No more set leak speculations. No more early pirated episodes to panic over. It's all done.

Yes, for people like me we still have the books to look forward to. But, those are years away from being finished if they ever are. And, the general public doesn't read, no one besides us weirdos are going to care when TWOW is finally released.

It's all done. It's kinda sad that it ended so shitty.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
Oh no. A friend said she was really disappointed by Dany 'betraying her dreams' as she put it(as in dreams of peace) and said "I'm watching this anime now, [other friend] suggested it to me because the hero never betrays his dreams."

It's Berserk.

...Well.

...That's technically accurate.

...I'm wondering if I should tell her or just make sure I watch the show with her.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Here's a really good take that was written on the 17th for Scientific American (please forgive the article's click baity title, i assure you the piece is excellent)

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

"The Real Reason Fans Hate the Last Season of Game of Thrones
It's not just bad storytelling—it's because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological"



The show did indeed take a turn for the worse, but the reasons for that downturn go way deeper than the usual suspects that have been identified (new and inferior writers, shortened season, too many plot holes). It's not that these are incorrect, but they're just superficial shifts. In fact, the souring of Game of Thrones exposes a fundamental shortcoming of our storytelling culture in general: we don't really know how to tell sociological stories.

At its best, GOT was a beast as rare as a friendly dragon in King's Landing: it was sociological and institutional storytelling in a medium dominated by the psychological and the individual. This structural storytelling era of the show lasted through the seasons when it was based on the novels by George R. R. Martin, who seemed to specialize in having characters evolve in response to the broader institutional settings, incentives and norms that surround them.
The initial fan interest and ensuing loyalty wasn't just about the brilliant acting and superb cinematography, sound, editing and directing. None of those are that unique to GOT, and all of them remain excellent through this otherwise terrible last season.

One clue is clearly the show's willingness to kill off major characters, early and often, without losing the thread of the story. TV shows that travel in the psychological lane rarely do that because they depend on viewers identifying with the characters and becoming invested in them to carry the story, rather than looking at the bigger picture of the society, institutions and norms that we interact with and which shape us. They can't just kill major characters because those are the key tools with which they're building the story and using as hooks to hold viewers.

The appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling, where a single charismatic and/or powerful individual, along with his or her internal dynamics, doesn't carry the whole narrative and explanatory burden. Given the dearth of such narratives in fiction and in TV, this approach clearly resonated with a large fan base that latched on to the show.

In sociological storytelling, the characters have personal stories and agency, of course, but those are also greatly shaped by institutions and events around them. The incentives for characters' behavior come noticeably from these external forces, too, and even strongly influence their inner life.

People then fit their internal narrative to align with their incentives, justifying and rationalizing their behavior along the way. (Thus the famous Upton Sinclair quip: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.")
That tension between internal stories and desires, psychology and external pressures, institutions, norms and events was exactly what Game of Thrones showed us for many of its characters, creating rich tapestries of psychology but also behavior that was neither saintly nor fully evil at any one point. It was something more than that: you could understand why even the characters undertaking evil acts were doing what they did, how their good intentions got subverted, and how incentives structured behavior. The complexity made it much richer than a simplistic morality tale, where unadulterated good fights with evil.

The hallmark of sociological storytelling is if it can encourage us to put ourselves in the place of any character, not just the main hero/heroine, and imagine ourselves making similar choices. "Yeah, I can see myself doing that under such circumstances" is a way into a broader, deeper understanding. It's not just empathy: we of course empathize with victims and good people, not with evildoers.
Another example of sociological TV drama with a similarly enthusiastic fan following is David Simon's The Wire, which followed the trajectory of a variety of actors in Baltimore, ranging from African-Americans in the impoverished and neglected inner city trying to survive, to police officers to journalists to unionized dock workers to city officials and teachers. That show, too, killed off its main characters regularly, without losing its audience. Interestingly, the star of each season was an institution more than a person. The second season, for example, focused on the demise of the unionized working class in the U.S.; the fourth highlighted schools; and the final season focused on the role of journalism and mass media.

There's quite a bit more but this read is recommended not just for better understanding what happened with GOT but storytelling in general.
 

Kimaris

Banned
Nov 20, 2017
1,152
The "writers kinda forgot" meme gets a chuckle out of me every time I see it. At least this train wreck of a season gave us that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
hojjeguhrjz21.jpg
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
You know what's funny, is that it's finally now sinking in, Game of Thrones is over? That was it. We will never see these actors play those characters again. The story is finished and everyone will move on. No more theorycrafting. No more set leak speculations. No more early pirated episodes to panic over. It's all done.

Yes, for people like me we still have the books to look forward to. But, those are years away from being finished if they ever are. And, the general public doesn't read, no one besides us weirdos are going to care when TWOW is finally released.

It's all done. It's kinda sad that it ended so shitty.

Bah it will all start over again soon enough. This is just the beginning of countless new material.

I do feel lucky I only got into the show and the books just after s7 ended.
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,599
I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"
To say the reactions to the finale were divisive is to really undercut the reactions to the first 5 episodes of the season.

The feelings of disappointment finally hit everyone who had still been giving D&D the benefit of the doubt when there was still show left to release.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"

I mean, I felt that way on Sunday, but having stayed out of this thread since and seen the reaction elsewhere I think the answer is a pretty definitive yes

To be clear, I love the show and never read the books -- the rushed conclusion forced through the last 2 seasons sucked and the finale was a joke
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I mean, I felt that way on Sunday, but having stayed out of this thread since and seen the reaction elsewhere I think the answer is a pretty definitive yes

To be clear, I love the show and never read the books -- the rushed conclusion forced through the last 2 seasons sucked and the finale was a joke
I noticed the mood in the thread after the last episode was pretty damning compared to after previous episodes. Nowhere near as many people pushing back on the criticism.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,554
I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"

Lots of people still liked the finale. Ken napzok for example from the casterly talk podcast loved the episode.

What most people do agree on is that this is were the characters will end on in the books but the road that will get them there will be more fleshed out.

There should have been more episodes but that Star Wars meme should be put to rest. Star wars came after D&D decided the amount of episodes.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Episode 4 was a pretty cruddy setup episode, but 5 rly just broke me lol
Honestly, it's a good thing I'm such a cynic because I was prepared for the entire season to be a shitshow after last season.

I went into Season 8 like
https://i./1s/2019/05/13/04/13423738-7021689-image-a-34_1557717612724.jpg

"I really hope I'm wrong about this"
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,554
"Inescapably, infuriatingly, what we're left with is apparently the central message of Game of Thrones: Bitches are crazy."
And yet a girl killed the Night King, a woman is leading the Iron Islands and another woman is queen of the North.

I wouldn't call Dany a crazy bitch the same as Stannis wasn't a crazy men. Both are more tragic characters than anything else
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
"Dany should have been on throne"

Damn straight
Right before Jon stabs her I thought "wow, it would be super brave and bold if Jon went all-in on Genocide Dany" and the show went truly dark.

Then he stabbed her and I remembered what show I was watching.

And yet a girl killed the Night King, a woman is leading the Iron Islands and another woman is queen of the North.
That's not how feminism works
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?

The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.

Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?

The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.

Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
They certainly forgot about the whole "see how the squabbles of the elite take their toll on the 99%" theme until it was time to give us a reason for Dany to die.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,726
Episode 4 was a pretty cruddy setup episode, but 5 rly just broke me lol

Episode four diminished S8E1-3 (I'm in the 'loved E3 in spite of issues' camp, and E2 was legit one of the best episodes in a long while)
Episode five diminished S1-8
Episode six made it so I have no desire to rewatch the show
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,554
You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?

The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.

Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
That reminds me of this quote:

"It often comforts me to think that even in war's darkest days, in most places of the world, absolutely nothing is happening."

— Ser Brynden "Blackfish" Tully
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?

The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.

Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?

Honestly considering how fucked everybody's armies are except for Dorne's completely untouched army, if the Prince of Dorne really wanted to he could just stroll into King's Landing take it over and literally nobody would be able to stop him now that Dany's army fucked off.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
And yet a girl killed the Night King, a woman is leading the Iron Islands and another woman is queen of the North.

I wouldn't call Dany a crazy bitch the same as Stannis wasn't a crazy men. Both are more tragic characters than anything else
Dany's turn was a crazy bitch, they ruined Stannis too.

Also Yara was awfully written with her motivations in the last episode being like whiplash and Sansa was able to get away with being a petty catfighter because she rolled a perfect insight score at the start of the season.

Then there's the fact that someone in season 4 didnt understand what rape is re: jaime, sansa rape being added and then the show implying she came out stronger because of it, sansa and arya's useless made up infighting, Varys suddenly being against what he was building for several seasons because Dany didn't have a dick. I could go on.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Remember that time that in order to leech Gendry, Melisandre had to have sex with him.
 

SArcher

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
I hope we get the books one day and George reveals what exactly he told D&D so we can make sense how this ending was supposed to come off. Because right now there are so many question marks.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
Why do people call her Dragon Hitler?

If anyone she is more of a Dragon Stalin.

Dragon Hitler is just a code. Her bff is Trogdor the Burninator, she's rather unpredictable and she fucked up everybody's prospects of peace just as the threat of ice zombies was defeated. And winter is here.

You don't need to be Bran to see where this is leading.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?

The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.

Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
He's pumped. He's been prepping for winter for years, and it only ended up being like 3 weeks

like his jury duty just got cancelled
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,110
I think of her as Chairwoman Dany (Chairman Dany? has a better ring right). Her "liberation" is equivalent to the great leap forward. Sure many will die but they will be liberated!

Y'all need to look past the 20th century lol. What she did was more akin to the Mongolians wiping out cities because the inhabitants dared to resist them. She even has the Dothraki horse lords, so they turned her into a Great Khan more than anything else with two episodes left to go haha.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
Just watched this scene again. It feels like a completely different show. There was just nothing close to scenes like this in this last season.



Yeah, but why would you expect this in the end? It's basically a bunch of hotheads setting themselves up for war against a well funded king. There has to be a time when people are sitting down and guffawing about somebody not making the history books.