I honestly don't even think that was intentional, just the result of hilariously sloppy writing.
Was that not written? Damn that is awesome imo.Still, all I can think of with this scene, is the random extra yelling out "Renly is not right" and them leaving it in the episode.
The Bronn stuff is mostly D&D stuff, the best scene between Arya an Tywin is 100% D&D. They are good writers
Yeah, I think it was mentioned on the commentary of the episode.
Still, all I can think of with this scene, is the random extra yelling out "Renly is not right" and them leaving it in the episode.
The show did indeed take a turn for the worse, but the reasons for that downturn go way deeper than the usual suspects that have been identified (new and inferior writers, shortened season, too many plot holes). It's not that these are incorrect, but they're just superficial shifts. In fact, the souring of Game of Thrones exposes a fundamental shortcoming of our storytelling culture in general: we don't really know how to tell sociological stories.
At its best, GOT was a beast as rare as a friendly dragon in King's Landing: it was sociological and institutional storytelling in a medium dominated by the psychological and the individual. This structural storytelling era of the show lasted through the seasons when it was based on the novels by George R. R. Martin, who seemed to specialize in having characters evolve in response to the broader institutional settings, incentives and norms that surround them.
The initial fan interest and ensuing loyalty wasn't just about the brilliant acting and superb cinematography, sound, editing and directing. None of those are that unique to GOT, and all of them remain excellent through this otherwise terrible last season.
One clue is clearly the show's willingness to kill off major characters, early and often, without losing the thread of the story. TV shows that travel in the psychological lane rarely do that because they depend on viewers identifying with the characters and becoming invested in them to carry the story, rather than looking at the bigger picture of the society, institutions and norms that we interact with and which shape us. They can't just kill major characters because those are the key tools with which they're building the story and using as hooks to hold viewers.
The appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling, where a single charismatic and/or powerful individual, along with his or her internal dynamics, doesn't carry the whole narrative and explanatory burden. Given the dearth of such narratives in fiction and in TV, this approach clearly resonated with a large fan base that latched on to the show.
In sociological storytelling, the characters have personal stories and agency, of course, but those are also greatly shaped by institutions and events around them. The incentives for characters' behavior come noticeably from these external forces, too, and even strongly influence their inner life.
People then fit their internal narrative to align with their incentives, justifying and rationalizing their behavior along the way. (Thus the famous Upton Sinclair quip: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.")
That tension between internal stories and desires, psychology and external pressures, institutions, norms and events was exactly what Game of Thrones showed us for many of its characters, creating rich tapestries of psychology but also behavior that was neither saintly nor fully evil at any one point. It was something more than that: you could understand why even the characters undertaking evil acts were doing what they did, how their good intentions got subverted, and how incentives structured behavior. The complexity made it much richer than a simplistic morality tale, where unadulterated good fights with evil.
The hallmark of sociological storytelling is if it can encourage us to put ourselves in the place of any character, not just the main hero/heroine, and imagine ourselves making similar choices. "Yeah, I can see myself doing that under such circumstances" is a way into a broader, deeper understanding. It's not just empathy: we of course empathize with victims and good people, not with evildoers.
Another example of sociological TV drama with a similarly enthusiastic fan following is David Simon's The Wire, which followed the trajectory of a variety of actors in Baltimore, ranging from African-Americans in the impoverished and neglected inner city trying to survive, to police officers to journalists to unionized dock workers to city officials and teachers. That show, too, killed off its main characters regularly, without losing its audience. Interestingly, the star of each season was an institution more than a person. The second season, for example, focused on the demise of the unionized working class in the U.S.; the fourth highlighted schools; and the final season focused on the role of journalism and mass media.
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
You know what's funny, is that it's finally now sinking in, Game of Thrones is over? That was it. We will never see these actors play those characters again. The story is finished and everyone will move on. No more theorycrafting. No more set leak speculations. No more early pirated episodes to panic over. It's all done.
Yes, for people like me we still have the books to look forward to. But, those are years away from being finished if they ever are. And, the general public doesn't read, no one besides us weirdos are going to care when TWOW is finally released.
It's all done. It's kinda sad that it ended so shitty.
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
Why do people call her Dragon Hitler?
If anyone she is more of a Dragon Stalin.
Dunno, I'm in the divisive camp still. Love the show, love the ideas and where the characters ended up.I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"
To say the reactions to the finale were divisive is to really undercut the reactions to the first 5 episodes of the season.I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"
I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"
I noticed the mood in the thread after the last episode was pretty damning compared to after previous episodes. Nowhere near as many people pushing back on the criticism.I mean, I felt that way on Sunday, but having stayed out of this thread since and seen the reaction elsewhere I think the answer is a pretty definitive yes
To be clear, I love the show and never read the books -- the rushed conclusion forced through the last 2 seasons sucked and the finale was a joke
I noticed the mood in the thread after the last episode was pretty damning compared to after previous episodes. Nowhere near as many people pushing back on the criticism.
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
I feel like we've comfortably moved past "divisive" right into "memetically bad"
Honestly, it's a good thing I'm such a cynic because I was prepared for the entire season to be a shitshow after last season.Episode 4 was a pretty cruddy setup episode, but 5 rly just broke me lol
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
And yet a girl killed the Night King, a woman is leading the Iron Islands and another woman is queen of the North."Inescapably, infuriatingly, what we're left with is apparently the central message of Game of Thrones: Bitches are crazy."
Right before Jon stabs her I thought "wow, it would be super brave and bold if Jon went all-in on Genocide Dany" and the show went truly dark.
That's not how feminism worksAnd yet a girl killed the Night King, a woman is leading the Iron Islands and another woman is queen of the North.
They certainly forgot about the whole "see how the squabbles of the elite take their toll on the 99%" theme until it was time to give us a reason for Dany to die.You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?
The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.
Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
Episode 4 was a pretty cruddy setup episode, but 5 rly just broke me lol
That reminds me of this quote:You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?
The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.
Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
You ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?
The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.
Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
Dany's turn was a crazy bitch, they ruined Stannis too.And yet a girl killed the Night King, a woman is leading the Iron Islands and another woman is queen of the North.
I wouldn't call Dany a crazy bitch the same as Stannis wasn't a crazy men. Both are more tragic characters than anything else
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
Why do people call her Dragon Hitler?
If anyone she is more of a Dragon Stalin.
He's pumped. He's been prepping for winter for years, and it only ended up being like 3 weeksYou ever wonder what a random farmer in Dorne was doing during the entire series?
The War of 5 kings never really made it down there. Main characters were barely there And if they were there wasn't any large scale conflict.
Probably didn't know army of the dead or dragons were coming. Dunno if they recieve ravens or news letters but maybe some talk around town let them know the Viper died and Ellaria captured/King killed? How much would they care?
Aaron Rodgers going off
Shame the writers more! Shame them!
#StillWithHer
I think of her as Chairwoman Dany (Chairman Dany? has a better ring right). Her "liberation" is equivalent to the great leap forward. Sure many will die but they will be liberated!
Just watched this scene again. It feels like a completely different show. There was just nothing close to scenes like this in this last season.
Just watched this scene again. It feels like a completely different show. There was just nothing close to scenes like this in this last season.