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First marker for mysterious vaping illness identified
- Thread starter yoonshik
- Start date
"PG and VG are not oils, and can't cause any of the medical issues — like lipoid pneumonia — that inhaling actual oils can. "
hrmm...i guess they'll have to recheck that.
anyone who's ever touched vegetable glycerin, you can't tell me that lumpy gooey oily substance doesn't seem fatty to you.
and propylene glycol? oh cool, we vaping antifreeze now?
Doubtful. We'd be seeing a ton more of this if that were the case. PG and VG have been used since the inception of nicotine vape pens.
It's most likely whatever is in the THC/CBD carts. Last checked, possibly vit. E. lipids
I did find this: https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2018-224350
I'm not saying one study is the be all and end all btw.
Either they're wrong about the lack of side effects, or these people are vaping something else they shouldn't be. The latter seems more probable given the relative rarity of the symptoms but if it turns out to be the former that seems like a megaton requiring way more regulation.
Unfortunately vaping has become such a catchall phrase that people will interpret this article as applying to all vaping, even though you're not going to find lipids in the vast majority of things you'd vape, especially not ecigs.
Propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin are used all the time as sublingual carriers of medications. Which isn't to say that we should be inhaling them but calling it antifreeze is pretty misleading.
Macrophages are white blood cells not fat. This could indicate that vaping is harming lungs which is causing a buildup of WBC.
prop glyc is literally refered to as a non-toxic human and dog safe antifreeze
I mean fair enough but you also find it in the pharmacy section of grocery stores where ppl are presumably using it for making oral tinctures and stuff (so one of its main applications is to use it internally). That's all I'm saying.
Shit, reading up on a few more studies, and there may be something to it. There were a few cases in 2012 attributed to VG, and one in 2016. Sure there are plenty more.
PG is also used extensively to create the fog in fog machines. Wonder if stagehands ever had any issues lol
If it's nontoxic, then why refer to it as antifreeze? It just comes off as alarmist.
There are two different kinds. ethylene glycol which is very toxic and prop. glycol which, so far as we know, isn't.
I had a cousin who used to vape a lot. He would take a hit of it every few minutes. He would go through a bottle of fluid that was supposed to be a month's supply in a week. He eventually got to the point where he had constant nose bleeds when he used the vaper. He finally stopped using it and went back to cigarettes.
Thats insane. Addiction is crazy strong, as you'd think that would be enough to get him to quit.
It's addictive, especially due to the mantra of being safer than cigs.
wtf? was he prone to nosebleeds?
really?!
It's criminal that people talk about vaping being safer than smoking when real world results show that smoking takes years longer to kill someone. It's a world wide experiment and the results are starting to come in.
The problem is that people see vaping as safe and then don't use it properly. The vaping pen needs to be cleaned regularly so there is no tar buildup on the coil. Then people use WAY too high levels of nicotine with it, dangerously high levels, especially teens and college age kids. And because they feel it is safe, people go overboard with how often they use it so no wonder they have health problems. Overall, vaping is probably safer than cigarettes when used in moderation but people aren't using it in moderation at all, so people seriously addicted are going to end up worse then they would have been on cigarettes.
water is an industrial coolant, but when you say "oh cool, we drinking coolant now?" when talking about drinking water then you're an alarmist.
Man, I can understand why people go back to cigs: better the devil you know, than the devil you don't...
I won't lie, I'm tempted.
I won't lie, I'm tempted.
Vaping has been around for over a decade with little to no adverse side effects being reported or found in thousands of scientific studies, but a handful of young people in one particular area who are vaping one particular product comedown with a sudden onset illness (i.e., not brought upon by prolonged exposure to vaping) and Era wants people to go back to cigarettes, which is verifiably the cause of 500,000 deaths a year. I thought y'all were supposed to be smart, but I guess that all goes out the window when you consider the horror of "That guy at work smells like blueberries all the time!" and "Yeah, he might feel a million times better than when he was smoking cigarettes, but he looks like a fucking dork lol."
Unreal.
Edit: Adding my responses here because people aren't interested in reading the rest of the thread,
I am not against the precautions being taken regarding this recent string of cases, nor am I opposed to the FDA actually giving a shit and testing products that go on sale, but I am against people here ludicrously painting all vapers as spiraling towards their death and unbelievably talking about people going back to cigarettes. It's complete ignorance that they're happy to buy into because vaping is for nerds or whatever dumb prejudice they have.
It's right here, in this very thread. This is what these poorly framed articles of an illness which has been linked to a particular chemical in a particular strain of products (i.e., not inherently related to vaping nor caused by prolonged use of vape products) is causing people to think. This is people going back to cigarettes because of bullshit boogieman headlines, and the people with vaping prejudices because 'it looks dumb' are applauding them.
Unreal.
Edit: Adding my responses here because people aren't interested in reading the rest of the thread,
These are not cases of people dying from prolonged exposure to vaping. These are people coming down with a severe illness from a harmful substance found in one particular type of product. It is not indicative of a hazard inherent to vaping.
I am not against the precautions being taken regarding this recent string of cases, nor am I opposed to the FDA actually giving a shit and testing products that go on sale, but I am against people here ludicrously painting all vapers as spiraling towards their death and unbelievably talking about people going back to cigarettes. It's complete ignorance that they're happy to buy into because vaping is for nerds or whatever dumb prejudice they have.
It's right here, in this very thread. This is what these poorly framed articles of an illness which has been linked to a particular chemical in a particular strain of products (i.e., not inherently related to vaping nor caused by prolonged use of vape products) is causing people to think. This is people going back to cigarettes because of bullshit boogieman headlines, and the people with vaping prejudices because 'it looks dumb' are applauding them.
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It's not going to be the PG and VG given that they've been used in vape for over a decade and these deaths are springing up overnight.
There are one or two cases, last year and earlier (one in the UK), that may point towards VG, so it may not be that cut and dry.
industrial coolant in the lungs is also bad. maybe those things don't belong in the lungs. dihydrogen monoxide in the lungs can cause illness in small amounts and kill in large ones. but never mind water vapor, i did not know that vape liquid was made of a chemical with many industrial uses and applications, but not necessarily recreationally in the lungs.
That there may be a link between vaping it and lipoid pneumonia. Like I said earlier, there are only a few cases that I managed to find reported in places such as the BMJ. All of them were from pre 2019.
Edit: sorry, the case report says "suggestive of lipoid pneumonia".
"Since the bronchoscopy and high-volume lavage was unyielding, a video-assisted thoracoscopicsurgical biopsy was done later and was suggestive of lipoid pneumonia. The only source of lipid was the vegetable glycerine found in e-cigarette (EC)"
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I know I'm just one person, but vaping a little every day for a month straight has given me some of these symptoms on a minor level. So I think the fact there's this sudden mass reporting of illness is telling as to what may be going wrong. What's changed in the production and how can we know exactly if it's Schedule 1?
It's pretty amazing that big tobacco figured out a way to get people to pay them to kill themselves again.
I'm sure smoking was around for a while before the downsides became apparent. Like c'mon. A decade is nothing. It took my dad literally 70 years as a full time smoker for it to actually eventually catch up with him. Folk are dying now from this who have been vaping for just months or a few years. It's worth being concerned about it and understanding it better.
These are not cases of people dying from prolonged exposure to vaping. These are people coming down with a severe illness from a harmful substance found in one particular type of product. It is not indicative of a hazard inherent to vaping.
I am not against the precautions being taken regarding this recent string of cases, nor am I opposed to the FDA actually giving a shit and testing products that go on sale, but I am against people here ludicrously painting all vapers as spiraling towards their death and unbelievably talking about people going back to cigarettes. It's complete ignorance that they're happy to buy into because vaping is for nerds or whatever dumb prejudice they have.
I'm 100% for research and regulations when it comes to vaping. However, we should not magnify outliers. I smoked for a long time, then vaped, and now only vape 6-8 times a year a little when drinking.
Based off everything I've read (and it's a lot) and personal experience, I still believe vaping is SIGNIFICANTLY more healthy than smoking. I would highly recommend anyone smoking to switch to vape without hesitation.
Based off everything I've read (and it's a lot) and personal experience, I still believe vaping is SIGNIFICANTLY more healthy than smoking. I would highly recommend anyone smoking to switch to vape without hesitation.
This is gonna turn out to be due to some contaminants being in the juice, at least that's my thought. Way too many people vape for it to have only affected people now.
Or maybe inhaling vaporized anything regularly is bad... who would have thought that? !
Or maybe inhaling vaporized anything regularly is bad... who would have thought that? !
This is a terribly illogical comment. Did you pause to consider how long smoking was around before the dangers were fully known? 10 years is absolutely nothing. And no one wants anyone to "go back to cigarettes", come on now.
It's right here, in this very thread. This is what these poorly framed articles of an illness which has been linked to a particular chemical in a particular strain of products (i.e., not inherently related to vaping nor caused by prolonged use of vape products) is causing people to think. This is people going back to cigarettes because of bullshit boogieman headlines, and the people with vaping prejudices because 'it looks dumb' are applauding them.