Digital Foundry Direct-Modern Warfare Tech Discussion

RoboPlato · Aug 4, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0c4GVsdZ7A

All the members of the DF crew are on this one and in the same place! Talking MW tech based on Tom's time at the MP reveal event.

Main points
-Game uses a wildly dynamic resolution per frame combined with temporal reconstruction to maintain 60fps performance
-Actually uses variable rate shading on current consoles!
-The motion blur hides these shifts while not being too much to be distracting
-First CoD with a full photogrammetry pipeline
-Impressed by animation and scope rendering
-Massive increase in map size
-Screen-space shadows like in Days Gone for fine detail
-"Spectral Rendering" for the use of night vision goggles. Thermal, UV, and IR values are a part of the world and accurately reflected when the imaging requires it
-Volumetric fog and lights
-Team targets 70fps to account for overhead

Vitamin_B_Complex · Aug 4, 2019

I love me some screen space shadows. Days Gone's foliage and dirt and gravel looks so amazing because of it.

@TheFriendlyBro · Aug 4, 2019

RoboPlato said:
-First CoD with a full photogrammetry pipeline

That's dope.

Freakzilla · Aug 4, 2019

RoboPlato said:
-Team targets 70fps to account for overhead

That's how you do it.

RoboPlato · Aug 4, 2019

Summary done but I highly recommend watching. Love this kind of discussion between the whole crew where you can see them get really excited about different aspects of rendering and features and they go into a lot of depth.

Barnabas Reynolds · Aug 4, 2019

Vitamin_B_Complex said:
I love me some screen space shadows. Days Gone's foliage and dirt and gravel looks so amazing because of it.

It also looks terrible the second any part of the frame loses the information it needs, which often occurred and was distracting as all hell in DG.

janusff · Aug 4, 2019

Game is looking good. Kinda wonder if the team thought this would be a next gen launch title and planned for the consoles to come out in fall 2019.

RoboPlato · Aug 4, 2019

janusff said:
Game is looking good. Kinda wonder if the team thought this would be a next gen launch title and planned for the consoles to come out in fall 2019.

I'm hoping this game gets updated for next gen. Would be a neat game to compare.

Cliff Steele · Aug 4, 2019

This will look sick on Pro and X. Hyped to play a proper cod on console again. Last year's BO4 PC experience was rather disappointing.

trugc · Aug 4, 2019

So what's happening with the shadowmap? In all gameplay footage I watched only the nearest 2 or 3 cascades are getting rendered.

TheZynster · Aug 4, 2019

Team targets 70fps.......that's some forward thinking

BeI · Aug 4, 2019

I'm liking all the performance-saving rendering techniques they're making use of; squeezes as much juice as possible out of those console gpus. I feel that there is going to be a lot of dynamic resolution / temporal supersampling next-gen. Hopefully PC versions can follow suit instead of just brute forcing everything.

Barnabas Reynolds · Aug 4, 2019

Blacki138 said:
This will look sick on Pro and X. Hyped to play a proper cod on console again. Last year's BO4 PC experience was rather disappointing.

I own it but only ever played during the beta. Did player numbers drop off pretty fast?

BeI · Aug 4, 2019

Barnabas Reynolds said:
I own it but only ever played during the beta. Did player numbers drop off pretty fast?

All I know is that they supposedly had to reduce the amount of people for the Battle Royale mode because it was getting hard to get full games.

RoboPlato · Aug 4, 2019

trugc said:
So what's happening with the shadowmap? In all gameplay footage I watched only the nearest 2 or 3 cascades are getting rendered.

They don't talk about it here, unfortunately. I'm hoping that's just some early issues on the big maps that get sorted because other maps don't have that issue and look great.

ApeEscaper · Aug 4, 2019

RoboPlato said:
-Actually uses variable rate shading on current consoles!
-The motion blur hides these shifts while not being too much to be distracting

VRS on current consoles is interesting since these don't have hardware support for that. Edit: they say it's a software implementation of it, cool

That line about motion blur is worrying most likely now can't disable the motion blur on consoles which is lame, COD Infinite Warfare let us disable motion blur on console. More inclined to buy PC version instead especially with cross play with PC confirmed

RoboPlato · Aug 4, 2019

Ametroid said:
VRS on current consoles is interesting since these don't have hardware support for that.
That line about motion blur is worrying most likely now can't disable the motion blur on consoles which is lame, COD Infinite Warfare let us disable motion blur on console. More inclined to buy PC version instead.

You can disable it on console based off of impressions from the show.

Barnabas Reynolds · Aug 4, 2019

BeImonkey said:
All I know is that they supposedly had to reduce the amount of people for the Battle Royale mode because it was getting hard to get full games.

Yikes! Cross-play will help, of course, but that's not much consolation if you prefer kb/m.

Lokimaster · Aug 4, 2019

Targeting 70fps?
Now that's how you develop a game!

Black_Stride · Aug 4, 2019

Ametroid said:
VRS on current consoles is interesting since these don't have hardware support for that.
That line about motion blur is worrying most likely now can't disable the motion blur on consoles which is lame, COD Infinite Warfare let us disable motion blur on console. More inclined to buy PC version instead.

Full crossplay why would you NOT buy the PC version?
Seems like the version to go with either way.
Chances are some features will be impossible to switch off but expect a more than decent PC port.
If you watch the video per object motion blur is mainly on the gun.
The screen motion blur is super super light, not anywhere near enough to distract anyone.

If they include their reconstruction tech on PC I expect this to run on a potatoe and still look good.

I actually hope they cancel....or postpone COD 2020 and just rerelease this as a NextGen launch title with RayTracing enabled on Nextgen consoles.

Deleted member 20297 · Aug 4, 2019

Next gen will be really interesting with reconstruction improved, ray tracing, vrs and dynamic resolution and probably engines by then will feature most of these techniques (well, hopefully).

Deleted member 4976 · Aug 4, 2019

Freakzilla said:
That's how you do it.

But isn't that how all games that are 60 FPS do it?

You always target higher to ensure baseline consistency and account for variance.

jasius · Aug 4, 2019

I'm still having a hard time seeing how this engine is "incredibly" different from the last one. Maybe it's a game you need to see in person to see these subtle differences?

It does look a bit different to me, but things are still very flat, and the ground textures overall aren't great still, also nothing is destructible(from the footage I've seen).

xtib81 · Aug 4, 2019

what about pop in though? They almost never mention it although it's quite visible imo..

Snefer · Aug 4, 2019

Primethius said:
But isn't that how all games that are 60 FPS do it?

You always target higher to ensure baseline consistency and account for variance.

Pretty much, yeah :)

RoboPlato · Aug 4, 2019

Primethius said:
But isn't that how all games that are 60 FPS do it?

You always target higher to ensure baseline consistency and account for variance.

All aim higher but it's surprising that with dynamic res, reconstruction, and VRS that they're still aiming for 70 since those usually allow for less adherence to overhead. Plus we rarely actually get a number so I thought it was interesting

c0de said:
Next gen will be really interesting with reconstruction improved, ray tracing, vrs and dynamic resolution and probably engines by then will feature most of these techniques (well, hopefully).

It's going to be all about what looks good on a 4K display, not about what the base resolution is.

Detective Pidgey · Aug 4, 2019

They seem very impressed but I don't see it. Sure it looks good, but that 20vs20 map? That doesn't look too good at all and BFV absolutely destroys that visually. What I also love in BF is how foliage just isn't static at all, trees and bushes sway in the wind and it just looks really good. It's as static as can be in the MP of MW. That's a real shame. I guess it's to keep the framerate smooth?

However, we also see things like flags and other things and those do move in the wind, not static.

Freakzilla · Aug 4, 2019

Primethius said:
But isn't that how all games that are 60 FPS do it?

You always target higher to ensure baseline consistency and account for variance.

Yes but it's so rare nowadays for console games to Target 60 fps just the fact that CoD still values higher frame rate excites me.

Deleted member 20297 · Aug 4, 2019

RoboPlato said:
It's going to be all about what looks good on a 4K display, not about what the base resolution is.

The resolution will be hard to determine anyway like DF said in this video and there is more to image quality than just the metric of resolution as a hard fact. This was always true and also in the beginning of this generation but I hope we will move on from this discussion point come next gen.

Black_Stride · Aug 4, 2019

jasius said:
I'm still having a hard time seeing how this engine is "incredibly" different from the last one. Maybe it's a game you need to see in person to see these subtle differences?

It does look a bit different to me, but things are still very flat, and the ground textures overall aren't great still, also nothing is destructible(from the footage I've seen).

Can you tell the difference between UE3 and UE4?
How do you "see" engine differences?

c0de said:
Next gen will be really interesting with reconstruction improved, ray tracing, vrs and dynamic resolution and probably engines by then will feature most of these techniques (well, hopefully).

Hopefully it will also have devs or atleast fans stop clamoring at resolutions in general.
Reconstruction techniques and vrs will make pixel counting nigh useless the only way to really grab us with marketing speak should be 60fps or 120fps.

Resolutions dont matter all that much once you approach 4K but 30fps to 60 or 120 is massive.
Use reconstruction to maintain framerate.

Steo · Aug 4, 2019

The game sounds like it's getting better and better with each build.

So hyped.

drewfonse · Aug 4, 2019

Has anyone said dope yet?

If not, dope.

drewfonse · Aug 4, 2019

@TheFriendlyBro said:
That's dope.

Damn you

@TheFriendlyBro · Aug 4, 2019

drewfonse said:
Has anyone said dope yet?

If not, dope.

Got em.

jasius · Aug 4, 2019

Black_Stride said:
Can you tell the difference between UE3 and UE4?
How do you "see" engine differences?

This looks just as murky and dreary as some of the other older COD games, is that the COD style?
I wasn't attacking the game, I'm marveling and genuinely curious what I'm not seeing here that everyone else is seeing.

You can tell the difference between UE3 and UE4 games from too many things to name, some of them are differences in geometry, lighting effects used.

Hey Please · Aug 4, 2019

Side note: Oo boy, and I say this is a cisgender mostly straight guy, Alex and Morgan, (presumably) look very fit, especially, the former, with shapely lateral head of the triceps. Dude really hits the gym :P

Black_Stride · Aug 4, 2019

jasius said:
You can tell the difference between UE3 and UE4 games from too many things to name, some of them are differences in geometry, lighting effects used.

What?

DragonBall Fighter Z and Guilty Gear look effectively identical.
And If I asked you which was which "engine" and asked you to describe what gave away which engine was which you would be lying.

Whenever Engine talk comes around I always marvel at people who "think" they can guess or tell engines apart by looking at game X.

Without googling since you can "see" the difference between engines.
Which one is UE4 which is UE3:

ApeEscaper · Aug 4, 2019

Detective Pidgey said:
They seem very impressed but I don't see it. Sure it looks good, but that 20vs20 map? That doesn't look too good at all and BFV absolutely destroys that visually. What I also love in BF is how foliage just isn't static at all, trees and bushes sway in the wind and it just looks really good. It's as static as can be in the MP of MW. That's a real shame. I guess it's to keep the framerate smooth?

However, we also see things like flags and other things and those do move in the wind, not static.

BFV can drop to 30s and 40s fluctuating fps on consoles, all BF games on consoles never stable 60fps on online multiplayer unlike COD priorities stable 60fps gameplay

Maneil99 · Aug 4, 2019

jasius said:
This looks just as murky and dreary as some of the other older COD games, is that the COD style?
I wasn't attacking the game, I'm marveling and genuinely curious what I'm not seeing here that everyone else is seeing.

You can tell the difference between UE3 and UE4 games from too many things to name, some of them are differences in geometry, lighting effects used.

Arkham Knight is an UE3 game and manages to add features in that made it look better then nearly any UE4 game. It's why I found the hate for CoD using the same engine so dumb. Advanced warfare was a huge jump visually. Most people don't realize the games SP often looks better then MP. Advanced Warfare, MW:R and IW all looked great visually in SP

icecold1983 · Aug 4, 2019

Black_Stride said:
Full crossplay why would you NOT buy the PC version?
Seems like the version to go with either way.
Chances are some features will be impossible to switch off but expect a more than decent PC port.
If you watch the video per object motion blur is mainly on the gun.
The screen motion blur is super super light, not anywhere near enough to distract anyone.

If they include their reconstruction tech on PC I expect this to run on a potatoe and still look good.

I actually hope they cancel....or postpone COD 2020 and just rerelease this as a NextGen launch title with RayTracing enabled on Nextgen consoles.

Im sure they will give console users an opt out of pc crossplay option, which will quickly be enabled once they come across the waves of hackers. I dont expect this to be any diff from previous COD games population wise on PC

Hope · Aug 4, 2019

icecold1983 said:
Im sure they will give console users an opt out of pc crossplay option, which will quickly be enabled once they come across the waves of hackers. I dont expect this to be any diff from previous COD games population wise on PC

It's not full crossplay. It's fortnite crossplay. If i don't play with a pc friend i wont get a single pc player in my lobby. And that's the only way srsly.

icecold1983 · Aug 4, 2019

Hope said:
It's not full crossplay. It's fortnite crossplay. If i don't play with a pc friend i wont get a single pc player in my lobby. And that's the only way srsly.

oh. i didnt watch the stream so i assumed it was just full on crossplay. so yeah i definitely dont see it doing any better on PC. i guess if the large scale modes really deliver and they steal battlefields playerbase

Hope · Aug 4, 2019

icecold1983 said:
oh. i didnt watch the stream so i assumed it was just full on crossplay. so yeah i definitely dont see it doing any better on PC. i guess if the large scale modes really deliver and they steal battlefields playerbase

I agree with the large scale battles but this is the only way for crossplay. Forced crossplay sucks for most games.

horkrux · Aug 4, 2019

Hope said:
It's not full crossplay. It's fortnite crossplay. If i don't play with a pc friend i wont get a single pc player in my lobby. And that's the only way srsly.

source? you are supposed to get matched with pc players that use gamepads from what i've read.

Deleted member 1726 · Aug 4, 2019

Hope said:
It's not full crossplay. It's fortnite crossplay. If i don't play with a pc friend i wont get a single pc player in my lobby. And that's the only way srsly.

There's nothing wrong with that.

It also detects inputs too and matches you accordingly, want to play M/kB on console? Cool no problem, go play with the PC boys.

TheOne · Aug 4, 2019

Black_Stride said:
What?

DragonBall Fighter Z and Guilty Gear look effectively identical.
And If I asked you which was which "engine" and asked you to describe what gave away which engine was which you would be lying.

Whenever Engine talk comes around I always marvel at people who "think" they can guess or tell engines apart by looking at game X.

Without googling since you can "see" the difference between engines.
Which one is UE4 which is UE3:

But-----oh

Black_Stride · Aug 4, 2019

TheOne said:
But-----oh

Are you surprised he didnt respond?
Telling engines by looking at games is flawed in like 99% of cases...the telltale signs of engines like UE3 (that texture popin that killed games last gen) has been pretty much destroyed.
And my examples show just how far an engine can go.

kiguel182 · Aug 4, 2019

I know the game looks great but the visual style is so unappealing. It's too realistic and the war is current time which makes it way harder to abstract.

I think the game looks super interesting but I'm not sure I can get over that.

ApeEscaper · Aug 4, 2019

Hope said:
It's not full crossplay. It's fortnite crossplay. If i don't play with a pc friend i wont get a single pc player in my lobby. And that's the only way srsly.

Iirc if you use gamepad on the PC version then you do crossplay with console players

Anthony Hopkins · Aug 4, 2019

kiguel182 said:
I know the game looks great but the visual style is so unappealing. It's too realistic and the war is current time which makes it way harder to abstract.

I think the game looks super interesting but I'm not sure I can get over that.

Just wait until a few more gens, games will be nearly indistinguishable from reality.

Digital Foundry Direct-Modern Warfare Tech Discussion

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