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May 26, 2018
24,028
They're both secondary threats compared to the Thalmor. Wish the story had taken it that far because that's who I dearly wanted to fight. Ending the local conflict at the Empire/Stormcloak issue felt like a TV show ending before its time.
 
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SuzanoSho

Member
Dec 25, 2017
1,466
they're the only power that actually has a chance to stand up to Thalmor,
I mean, Hammerfell beat back the Aldmeri invasion WITHOUT the Empire's help, and all it took was not giving a fuck about the environment, the greatest race of warriors in Tamriel, and a little help from Imperial defectors...
 

Foxnull

Alt-Account
Banned
May 30, 2019
1,651
I'd never support the Stormcloaks since they're just being used by the Thalmor to weaken the Empire. The Stormcloaks aren't strong enough to take on the Aldmeri Dominion, but a strong and united Empire is.
 

Paroni

Member
Dec 17, 2020
3,422
I'd never support the Stormcloaks since they're just being used by the Thalmor to weaken the Empire. The Stormcloaks aren't strong enough to take on the Aldmeri Dominion, but a strong and united Empire is.

On the other hand, Empire had already thrown Hammerfell under the bus by abandoning them when they weren't willing to just cede their Southern territories to the Thalmor. It certainly is complicated "damned if you do, damned if you don't"-situation, because Empire needs to work strategically against the Thalmor but in the process they will inevitably fuck over non-Imperial provinces and their peoples, which can hardly be expected to just shut up and take it at the face value while trusting some greater untold Imperial plan that might make all the sacrifices worth it some day.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
It's a problem I've had with Skyrim since the drop. They want to make each side equal in a grey vs gray conflict, but really that just means making them each suck equally. Asking who's my favorite, the colonizers or the xenophobes, isn't exactly winning me over to any side. They can all dunk their heads, I'm just here to fight dragons.

It's why New Vegas is my preferred faction-based open world game. Choosing NCR vs Independent NV is a much more interesting choice than Empire vs Stormcloaks (Legion is just there for pure evil characters).
I always saw the NCR as less appealing than the Empire. The Empire has a problem in that, while both are vastly powerful colonial forces masquerading as doing the right thing, it's also being manipulated by the Thalmor and playing along as it doesn't have the ability to shrug them off. Open defiance would mean the end of the Empire and the Thalmor enslaving it's people (including Skyrim too) shortly afterwards. The NCR are much simpler, a powerful force of colonial invaders that just want territory and control, but fortunately has the comically evil Legion so it can claim all of its chokehold over the wasteland as being for the greater good.

To be honest the 'war' aspect of both games, being samey missions of 'take out this camp/stronghold then report back', is really repetitive in both games. In Skyrim it's particularly grim as the place is lousy with crumbing old forts it can stuff with enemy soldiers and call a quest.
 

Qasiel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,330
The first time I played through Skyrim, I did so as a Dunmer. After weighing up some differences in the beginning I decided to join the Empire because I decided to help the Empire soldier escape Helgen and kinda fell in from there. Once I reached Windhelm and saw exactly how other dark elves were treated (the "Grey Quarter"), I felt incredibly justified in wanting to murder those racial purist asshats in their sleep. In all of my subsequent play throughs, I don't think I've ever sided with the stormcloaks.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,639
In a game full of bad questlines, the Civil War questline might be the worst of all of them. I find it really hard to equate any of it to anything in real life, because below the surface it doesn't matter. There's no long lasting influence whatever side you choose and even the quests are literally the same.

It also makes no goddamn sense for anyone except Nord players to even pick the Stormcloaks.

It felt like a very weak attempt to copy the conflict from New Vegas without actually doing the narrative work needed to make it work.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,639
It's a problem I've had with Skyrim since the drop. They want to make each side equal in a grey vs gray conflict, but really that just means making them each suck equally. Asking who's my favorite, the colonizers or the xenophobes, isn't exactly winning me over to any side. They can all dunk their heads, I'm just here to fight dragons.

It's why New Vegas is my preferred faction-based open world game. Choosing NCR vs Independent NV is a much more interesting choice than Empire vs Stormcloaks (Legion is just there for pure evil characters).
I think this is really selling the work Obsidian did on the Legion short. What I love about New Vegas is that even the evil faction isn't just "evil for evilness' sake", like so many other evil RPG factions are. Caesar's Legion definitely is evil, there's no doubt about that, but Caesar has created the Legion using an example that he feels would be "best" to recreate society, namely snippets he read about the Roman Empire and philosophical ideas about society's functions. Like, he didn't wake up one day and went "Fuck it, I'm evil now".

In that way, the Legion does serve as a sort of dark counterinage of the NCR. The NCR thinks they are much better than the Legion, but in fact they are not that different. They just take a different old civilization as their inspiration and are usually a little less ruthless in their tactics (as in, no slavery or crucifixion and women have at least some rights and can hold leadership positions). Throughout the game though, there are instances where the NCR is far more ruthless than the Legion though.

For example, if you play the NCR side, you can never peacefully deal with the Khans. The NCR wants them all dead and there's no way you can budge the NCR to not kill all of them. Even if you manage to convince the Khans to flee, the ending slide mentions that the NCR slaughters them all on a later date. The Legion is far less intense with the way they handle other tribes, as they take the Roman approach, where tribes are allowed to live semi-independentally as long as they provide troops. Now, no question that that approach also isn't ideal and the game does mention that tribes that do not agree with the terms of Caesar are exterminated, but it shows that the Legion is far more developed as a faction than just being the "this is only for pure evil players who just want to see the world burn".

I mean, I haven't even gone into how between the NCR and the Legion, the Legion is probably more accepting of LGBTQ relationships. In the NCR is flat-out stated that being gay isn't, uhm, encouraged. Meanwhile, the Legion's relationship to LGBTQ people is more complicated, with the higher ups in the Legion claiming it is illegal, while actual LGBTQ characters in the game mention that same-sex relationships in the Legion are common and not as stigmatized as in the NCR.
 
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GlitchyDegree

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Dec 4, 2017
5,493
No, the Stormcloaks were crap even back then. I would always play as a proud Skyrim born nord who hated Ulfric's racist ass and knew he would be a worthless high king.
 
Oct 28, 2017
122
I just roleplayed as a Dark Brotherhood assassin focused on weakening the Empire by civil strife before taking down the Emperor himself. Hail Sithis!