Its not about someone posting an "old meme in 2019". It's about someone posting an image without understanding the context and / or the image.
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Did we all forget Riot is a shitty company that abuses it's employees?
- Thread starter Kitsunelaine
- Start date
Yeah, it'd be a shame if the people excited about playing a game had to be made aware of what purchasing that game supports. You may not be a fan of people discussing political aspects of a game's company during the announcement, but I'm not a fan of shoving all discussion to a different location so that people who like the game can have a safe space for their moral dilemma. If a studio, company, or publisher has their shoes covered in shit, you can't cry foul towards those of us who want to point out where the smell is coming from any time their products are being discussed in a political or non-political manner.
Pretty clear that Blizzard can just muscle through their current situation and be just fine on the other side
Personally I feel that they are only branching out into all of these areas as a means to control the esports arena. If they can make their other endeavors as popular as LOL, than they can control what goes on 100% at these tournament, basically increasing china's soft power even more so around the world.
People have short attention spans. A few months after some scandal is enough to forgive & forget. Or they didn't give a shit in the first place.
Look at the THQ situation. It happened not 6 months ago and after a couple of/few months lots of people were saying how it's unreasonable to hold them to account for "forever" or how annoying it was that their pedo-nazi pandering endeavours were being mentioned in every THQ thread mere months after it all happened.
Look at the THQ situation. It happened not 6 months ago and after a couple of/few months lots of people were saying how it's unreasonable to hold them to account for "forever" or how annoying it was that their pedo-nazi pandering endeavours were being mentioned in every THQ thread mere months after it all happened.
The image represents fucking nothing because it was fabricated to pass the message you are talking about. Read the quote I posted again. It is bad it keeps being used as an argument in situations like this.
At some point, pretty damn near every game company has done something deplorable, to its workers, or politics, or the environment, or its consumers. At some point you just have to start ignoring all the shit that goes on. Or turn to indies and support some decent people. Oh, about that...
It's not a matter of safe spaces per se, but the deliberate derailing of threads (and the inevitable [READ STAFF POST] that follows) makes reading the threads a cognitive load and makes such protests ineffective at their intended goal, often making things worse.
Well...
Let's see how Blizzcon goes.
I feel like 90% of the time, those thread notes are mods reminding people that being reminded of a developer or publisher's shitty behavior is well within the realm of discussion and people need to stop trying to squash that discussion because they want to talk about the video game without thinking of the bad things.
OT's are generally the place to talk about games without needing to think about the direct consequences of the people involved with making them. Everything else should be fair game. I personally do not care if people are annoyed when they're reminded that their money is, oftentimes, going to actual fascists.
Is it? Like, sure, obviously most game consumers don't do boycotts. But how many of the ones who do follow through it? If that image is what happens, then, well:
a) the minority of them don't follow with the boycott
b) all of them do, but some trolls will pretend to be part of the ones who claim boycott and not follow with it for people outside of the group think nobody is boycotting
Either way we need some other proof most people who claim boycotts don't do it, because that image ain't it chief.
Disruption is a good thing, especially when it comes to making people aware of major issues within the industry. Change, protesting, and speaking out shouldn't make the people receiving the information feel comfortable and cozy.
It is, for certain, in my anecdotal experience of course... but I've seen it too often in my life to think any different.
There's nothing wrong with commenting "I don't want to support this game because it's made by THQ Nordic/Blizzard/Riot" as that's a personal opinion/philosophy. The [READ STAFF POSTS] mod posts also comment (paraphrases) "you're free to disagree but do not harass people who don't disagree". Derailment/Hostile posts like "If you don't immediately denounce THQ Nordic/Blizzard/Riot then you're part of the problem" won't make people aware of issues in the industry or change anyone's opinion on the matter.
I hope it goes well. Nothing that happens in Blizzcon will benefit people in Hong Kong and everyone pretending it's somehow important is just doing it to feel better about themselves - not actually helping those poor people.
For me, games are not more important than human rights.... if that was a real choice that actually exists and someone needed to make. Since Blizzard and how they do business with a world superpower that is China is where the world is currently at, and will not aid or harm people in HK one way or the other - at least I can be excited about Diablo 4. Would I choose Diablo 4 over human lives? Of course not. Call me when that is actually a thing to choose.
I would say I'm boycotting their products but they've never interested me.
Doubly so after their disgusting behaviour came to light.
Fuck 'em.
Doubly so after their disgusting behaviour came to light.
Fuck 'em.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. The moment you buy anything from a multi billion company chances are a whole lot of people are suffering or being abused just to create that product to be as cheap as possible for you.
If there is an organized boycott to send a message I feel people would be more inclined to support that cause. As ir could contribute to change. But just randomly abstaining from playing their games without a movement behind just isn't that attractive to people. And it probably doesn't do anything either.
If there is an organized boycott to send a message I feel people would be more inclined to support that cause. As ir could contribute to change. But just randomly abstaining from playing their games without a movement behind just isn't that attractive to people. And it probably doesn't do anything either.
That's a fair (if depressing) point. Some people are also downplaying the Blizzard scandal, even here, but they're far less numerous than the usual mob downplaying every case of harassment. I think part of it is that it seems to have united the left and right, progressives and conservatives, against it (probably for different reasons), making it look like a cause they can support without losing face.
I was wondering this as well when I saw all the hubub over Riot's new games. So we're okay with the fact that they're a shitty company that mistreats their employees, and fosters one of the most toxic communities in gaming because... new toys?
Are the people who brought the problems to management all gone from the company? I saw the GWU segment with a Riot employee on Giantbomb's E3 show and it seemed like they wanted to make the company better from the inside not abandon it and let it rot. I don't see why consumers should write Riot off as a result of that.
I'm definitely interested in League on console as a longtime Smite console player and a dabbler in Dota.
I'm definitely interested in League on console as a longtime Smite console player and a dabbler in Dota.
I feel that the actblizzard situation took off relative to the riot issue because it could be described in one sentence: "Player lost a prize they deserved".
Even if one didn't know anything else about the situation (like the CCP's worldwide influence) they would know that this was obviously unfair. So they could post a take without much thought.
It also invited different communities to jump in. Progressive communities jumped in because actblizzard chose to support an authoritarian regime over human rights. Racists hopped aboard because the CCP's involvement in the issue was just another excuse to spew nonsense against the Chinese people as a whole. And "alt-right" idiots joined in to create and spread conspiracy theories of people "bowing down" to the CCP.
Even if one didn't know anything else about the situation (like the CCP's worldwide influence) they would know that this was obviously unfair. So they could post a take without much thought.
It also invited different communities to jump in. Progressive communities jumped in because actblizzard chose to support an authoritarian regime over human rights. Racists hopped aboard because the CCP's involvement in the issue was just another excuse to spew nonsense against the Chinese people as a whole. And "alt-right" idiots joined in to create and spread conspiracy theories of people "bowing down" to the CCP.
You mean gamers are hypocrites? No.....that can't be.
I mean Riot (totally Chinese owned) has warned their players and broadcasters not to discuss "sensitive matters" on the air making them pretty much exactly like Blizzard yet something seems different.
That is not even touching on past things.
I mean Riot (totally Chinese owned) has warned their players and broadcasters not to discuss "sensitive matters" on the air making them pretty much exactly like Blizzard yet something seems different.
That is not even touching on past things.
I didn't forget, but I also can't help but acknowledge that their upcoming games look pretty exciting.
What makes me sad is the number of people who don't ideologically support shitty companies but still expend effort demoralizing others who try to take a stand.
Mmm...
I would say that Blizzard stifling conversation about the HK protests in general and punishing those who bring it up is a big enough deal for people to reconsider doing business with them, especially when the HK protestors are basically begging American parties to drum up awareness to their plight and force our government to step in when it comes to their current heads of state and mainland china trying to take away their democratic rights. Because that's what the HK protests are about, HK getting to keep their democratic structures.
So it's less "Diablo 4 is less important than human rights" and more "Diablo 4 isn't more important than the collapse of the HK government".
But hey, you do you. We're not at the point where we have to worry about whether or not Tencent's involvement with the CCP and their entertainment arm are responsible for people literally being mutilated for parts.
Not yet anyway.
As someone said, the HK issue unites both sides.Also, I recall someone telling me in the hk boycott poll thread how the atlus boycott here didn't matter as much as HK. In which case lgqbt issues aren't as important. (in their words the hk issue was slightly more important
) That said if I had to pick between the current issues, I'd have to say I would pick Hong Kong as it resonates more with me (familial reasons and nationality reasons). Plus when you look at the poll results of Atlus VS blizzard, it was really telling.
) That said if I had to pick between the current issues, I'd have to say I would pick Hong Kong as it resonates more with me (familial reasons and nationality reasons). Plus when you look at the poll results of Atlus VS blizzard, it was really telling.
"If you don't work, you don't eat."
We are literally taught that story from a very young age in schools.
Also it doesn't help that most people in the game industry are at will and can be fired for any reason should their employers deem fit, which makes organizing very difficult.
Are you really trying to connect me being excited for Blizzcon with mutilating bodies for parts?
Please explain what role will Diablo 4 have in the fate of HK government, because I'm genuinely curious to hear your answer.
I'm not able to share details, but Riot has done a lot behind the scenes to address their issues. They are in a much different place than THQ Nordic or Blizzard. Still a lot of work to be done and I wouldn't blame anyone for continuing to boycott them.
No, hence "we're not at the point..."
Trust me, if I was accusing you of doing that, I'd be far more blunt about it.
I mean...
In a situation where HK protestors are literally begging for american support, Blizzard is banning all conversation of the concept because of their partners, which means they are trying to limit american support for the HK plight. That is literally the situation. It's why people were getting fired, it's why people are getting banned, and it's why Blizzcon will almost certainly be surrounded in protests while also having all of it's streams behind a very heavy time filter, to keep any signs of protest out of the public view.
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Thank you for the subtlety then, I guess? Maybe you didn't accuse me, but you did mention body mutilation like it has anything to do with me being interested in Blizzcon. It doesn't.
That's not so easy i think. Would be great if the entire workfloor would unite in this. But is it likely?
It's great that all this is coming to light. And it will improve in time because of media reporting it. But people are very careful with their jobs.
A lot of people feel trapped by that, i think.
It's disgusting what is going on in a lot of companies. As is discussed in the threads.
We will all have to make decisions on what to do about it. Most here are old and wise enough.
I mean it's an allusion to a tangental situation that's currently happening which is not directly related to Blizzard, not yet anyway, but maybe in the future.
Like...the next week future.
I'm sorry if you didn't get the reference.
Huh, didn't know about Chucklefish, thanks for bringing that up.
I'm honestly kinda shocked at how many people here don't care about Riot being a shit company. The amount of shit they were getting I thought they were gonna be the next fuck-konami.