If Id tech doesn't have dev kits there is a bigger problem somewhere
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Devs react to the Xbox Series S specs
- Thread starter Lant_War
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Remedy puts their games on PC and its not like this is some new strategy seeing as how the One X and PS4 Pro exist. They'll just be doing the same thing they do now.
User banned (1 week): Antagonistic behavior towards other members, console warring, history of similar behavior
I'll take his opinion over that of a wounded fanboy.
And I say that as someone interested in this as a secondary console.
Will MS let them do that?
Seems like if they do then they break a promise to their consumers that bought the S and if they don't they risk allowing the S to hold back more technologically intensive games.
The absolute hottest take.
lol that is a real site. I thought you were joking.
If last gen is any indicator things will get much much worse once Sony starts releasing details. I feel for the mods if they actually try to contain it.
How is this cross gen? It will play all the new system games.
I said "we'll start to see", meaning it won't happen right away of course. That what happens when you put out a console with (some) "outdated" components in it.
Games will surpass what the tech inside can handle and the focus will shift to XSX+PS5 base leading to a Pro version way later on.
Even if it'll take some time, it will happen.
Yes. Different circumstances now. One S replaced the baseline system. One X was marketed as a pricier upgrade and came out a year later. XSX has thus far been marketed as the baseline system with XSS offered as a budget alternative releasing on the same day. The initial allure of next-gen has always been about fancy new equipment. If you can afford it, why settle for the gimped version?
Apparently the development kit for XSX is the same one you use for XSS. Also given that he works at Bethesda and Doom Eternal has already announced they are working on a next-gen patch the likelihood is pretty damn high.
If Bethesda didn't have access to Xbox development kits yet then Xbox clearly have bigger concerns.
It's not the same thing.
The mid gen refreshes are just that. Refreshes. They are supposed to be for enthusiasts. They are not the base console.
The base consoles were built in mind to last 6-7 years with half decent performance.
Price isn't everything.
This would be the equivalent of a $250 dollar PS4 running at .8TF or so.
After seeing cuts ms had to do for XSS to get to 300 , ps5 is not 399. Forget about that imo
While it's cool that the Series S exist, i can't stop thinking that it'll definitelly hold back the Series X over the years. It's great that we have more options and that more people will be able to enjoy the next generation games, but i can see Sony matching the Series S' price while having better specs in a few years.
Pasting a response of mine to a different poster:
Yes. Different circumstances now. One S replaced the baseline system. One X was marketed as a pricier upgrade and came out a year later. XSX has thus far been marketed as the baseline system with XSS offered as a budget alternative releasing on the same day. The initial allure of next-gen has always been about fancy new equipment. If you can afford it, why settle for the gimped version?
Looking at his twitter profile, you'd sure as hell hope so this close to launch.
In a few years the XSS will be below 200 dollars the PS4 is just at $200 dollars ...
control is one of the most poorly optimised games I've ever seen so.....
The RAM is clearly the bottleneck that developers will have to work around. But something had to be the trade-off to make next-gen to be affordable. It would suck to be a developer making next gen games if console sales happened to slump in the event of something like unprecedented unemployment in the US.
Ah this is why he wanted 128 GB for ray tracing BVH. makes sense.
Just from your wording (though I didn't actually think you thought that).
It's all compromise anyway, time will tell if they trimmed the right bits.
I do think at least some of the dev criticism comes from the excitement of the new consoles being tarnished a bit by a lower spec model.
It doesn't require "two separate and wholly different versions" though, which is utter hyperbole. It requires them to optimise around a different GPU and RAM configuration, a process which you can guarantee MS will streamline as much as possible in their dev tools.
Will Series S be an additional hurdle and headache for devs? Sure. Will it significantly impact next-generation design? Remains to be seen, but given the crux of the upcoming generation is centred around SSDs and CPU improvements, the only major concessions to be made will likely be reducing graphical fidelity on the Series S.
Not disagreeing with dev takes either. Series S will obviously require extra work and resources, and like any rational human being or artist they want their workflow and tools to be as capable, efficient, and painless as possible.
I'm cringing fairly hard at people questioning developer takes and asking them to show proof of working on the hardware or whatever. Yikes.
This goes for when it happened with PS5 takes as well. I'm not sure if people realize this, but there is so little bias of any kind in the industry. People are just excited about furthering the medium. If you hear a developer either excited or concerned about stuff, it's usually for good reason. Let's hold up with asking for receipts whenever a developer has an opinion on something.
This goes for when it happened with PS5 takes as well. I'm not sure if people realize this, but there is so little bias of any kind in the industry. People are just excited about furthering the medium. If you hear a developer either excited or concerned about stuff, it's usually for good reason. Let's hold up with asking for receipts whenever a developer has an opinion on something.
No doubt, they're game changers. Sony's solution is on a completely different league though. It's absolutely the biggest difference between these consoles.
But back to what we were talking about, you claimed that that phrase was used primarily for PS4 users seeking to transition to PS5, why wouldn't "PS5 exclusive" suffice, as with any gen before this one? Why the specific "designed for PS5" phrase?
The phrase got reactions when the game was revealed as well... But I don't know. We'll have to wait and see.
Yeah I mean I'm not going to disagree with you. I'm just saying that's what this is. A stop gap measure capitalizing on next gen hype and developer/publisher uneasiness about fully committing to next gen
It is nearly the same difference between xbox One and Xbox one X.
I think that's "optimized for series X" and now that you say that maybe that's why Sony included that
If the Series S has 75% of the Xbox install base then devs can't afford to ignore it.
The issue will be if devs are in crunch and they need to prioritise one of the Xbox SKUs. They are going to go with the bigger user base and perhaps the Series X version will not be as good.
We never even saw that running on a Series X, let alone the Series S :(
Do people think that devs with Series X games in development haven't know about Series S the entire time? It has been reported as one of the modes that the devkit can run since it was sent out. This isn't a surprise to anyone actively developing a next-gen game for Xbox. They've known the target specs for a long time, and the final specs for a while as well.
It is mostly true now because there are less PC oriented game and it is more multiplatform now.
But ambitious titles like Crysis (at that time), Flight Simulator or Star Citizen doesn't scale well. At all.
The point is, if I don't chase FPS, I can't fully exploited a new 3090. I can run the best settings of doom eternal at 4k/120FPS. That's awesome. But if I want better graphics at 1440p, I can't.
If Jeff's rumor is true about huge loss, XSS BOM is pretty higher than 300
I mean matching the whatever price the Series S will have in a few years
Honestly would have preferred and all $499 generation to start.
In 5 years when the PS5 Pro and XSX Pro launch, where is the S going to fit. Do they drop it to be a 1080p 30 fps box then?
Maybe they expect people to upgrade to the X by then or they will have a cheaper version of the X by then.
In 5 years when the PS5 Pro and XSX Pro launch, where is the S going to fit. Do they drop it to be a 1080p 30 fps box then?
Maybe they expect people to upgrade to the X by then or they will have a cheaper version of the X by then.
Sorry, you're a developer, so your opinion doesn't count here. /s
Which further backs my point that ps5 BOM is also very high. 399 wont happen IMO
Actually base on the "cut" Ms made, I think the opposite. What it told us is 1/3 gpu with cut down ram and SSD and no drives still cost more than half of the more expensive model. 399 ps5de is definitely possible, just because something has half the performance doesn't mean the actual bom only cost half as much.
I also wouldn't be surprised if, mid-way through the generation, the devs truly cannot work with XSS, then it just transitions to using XCloud for those types of games.
Because this leap is unlike anything we've had in quite some time....and Sony wants to stress that so that you're willing to spend 500 bucks or more on the hardware. The SSD in the PS5 isn't going to allow some generational advancement over the Xbox Series X/S or PC.
I don't get it, what does that have to do with anything?
Control is also the best showcase for RT.
That comparison doesn't take into account that of how things aren't the same. For starters, the base Xbox One cost more than the base PS4 when launched while being weaker. It was comparatively priced for awhile. Here, you're going to have the base console be 40% cheaper out of the gate. You can't compare the Xbox One being the weakest console last gen and the Series S being the weakest this gen and say it's the same because that 40% price difference is huge.
The reason to support it is because having both price tiers now makes it quite possible that the user base will grow faster because it's bring the barrier of entry lower while still offering the high end for enthusiasts.
Oh come on, do you think anyone releasing a Series X game anytime soon didn't know about this? It's not a last minute thing. Devs have known for awhile. Heck they let Digital Foundry know back in March about it. You think Digital Foundry knew before developers? The Series S has been known for awhile now. This is not some last minute surprise for developers who are working on Series X games.
id talking about the XSS being a bottleneck is obviously concerning.
But on the flipside, even id's Doom Eternal is coming to the 4gb Switch. And yet the Switch was obviously not a bottleneck in the making of Doom Eternal.
But I guess contracting out the XSS version of games to a port house isn't going to be a sensible option when it's going to have to launch on both XSS and XSX simultaneously.
But on the flipside, even id's Doom Eternal is coming to the 4gb Switch. And yet the Switch was obviously not a bottleneck in the making of Doom Eternal.
But I guess contracting out the XSS version of games to a port house isn't going to be a sensible option when it's going to have to launch on both XSS and XSX simultaneously.
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