Link please as MS already confirmed the yhave their own patent I am very curious to know more about it :)
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Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition
- Thread starter Equanimity
- Start date
Link please as MS already confirmed the yhave their own patent I am very curious to know more about it :)
I don't understand why people get so emotionally invested in these companies and their consoles. Like, these are products. I can understand why you might feel strongly about a game, because games can be art, and art resonates with people. But hardware?
You buy the console you want to buy, others will do the same, and that's about it. The relative "power" of a console should only matter as far as it helps you make that decision. What does anyone achieve by being rude and hostile to others about their choices?
You buy the console you want to buy, others will do the same, and that's about it. The relative "power" of a console should only matter as far as it helps you make that decision. What does anyone achieve by being rude and hostile to others about their choices?
Since you work in Activision so I suppose you worked on some AAA titles (because apparently from today, AA and Indie devs are not good devs 🤡), do you agree with the general sentiment that Ps5 is more closer to SeX than the raw TFlops number make it look like?
I'm asking since I'm completely ignorant on this.
Matt Phillips on Twitter
“@man_compute Wtf is a "6tflop console", you're just making this up. Teraflop measures one part of the pipeline of one discreet component of a console. You don't call your car a "12 gallon fuel tank saloon" like that means anything”
twitter.com
Oh, I couldn't say. I'm also not certain what you mean by closer. I understand a bit of this tech stuff but the programmers and engineers on our teams are the people I go to for that "DF on steroids" insight.
The TFLOP gap certainly isn't substantial enough to warrant the tomfoolery seen on these boards the last few days. With TFLOPs gaming consoles have finally found their Megapixels.
✌🏾
Damn, this analogy is beyond brilliant actually.Matt Phillips on Twitter
“@man_compute Wtf is a "6tflop console", you're just making this up. Teraflop measures one part of the pipeline of one discreet component of a console. You don't call your car a "12 gallon fuel tank saloon" like that means anything”
You might however call it a 400 hp car. Even though that's only part of a car's performance equation.Matt Phillips on Twitter
“@man_compute Wtf is a "6tflop console", you're just making this up. Teraflop measures one part of the pipeline of one discreet component of a console. You don't call your car a "12 gallon fuel tank saloon" like that means anything”
He responded with links and clarification in this post here:
Thanks but even the post says they are not using patents from Sony and those reference cites are in each patent if there is something related to it.
MS does notuse Sony's patents, but he was responding to the troll saying Sony doesn't have VRS when it appears everyone has patented their own version of VRS but calling it something different for obvious reasons.
A 400hp car is great on straights with adequate tires. And with an ecu that helps deliver those 400hp.
A car with less hp can perform better in many scenarios (as long it also has good tires etc etc)
It is a great selling point, but not the only one nor the full picture
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I don't know anything about cars, I thought that was the total output of the engine not a piece of it.
Yes, but the engine is only part of the car. Weight, aerodynamics, suspension, tires, etc. impact how fast a car would go around a track.
Yep, exactly.
Lol, I'm really out of my depth here, I thought flops would be like just examining a part of a cars engine. But then I would have to start naming bits to make that analogy work :D
Right, but basically the point of the analogy is that flops is rating the peak GPU performance, like horsepower is rating the peak engine performance, but a console is not just a GPU much like how a car is not just an engine.
The comparison is not good here.
In case of console, you need to compare more about how do you fueled the engine, not what is happening around it.
Yeah, I actually get you now(phew)
I was thinking of the engine as gpu/cpu/ram etc. Sorry.
Are alright sorry misunderstood then. Threads moving so fast.
TBF, Project Acoustics it's really amazing. The only "problem" is that MS really haven't talked much about it. I'll leave this here
Project Acoustics: Making Waves with Triton - Microsoft Research
Project Acoustics is now available for all game developers and sound designers to use. It employs the Triton technology developed in Microsoft Research for accurate sound propagation using wave physics. Learn more about the research at aka.ms/Project-Triton Download Project Acoustics at...www.microsoft.com
Wow. This deserves it's own thread. The video explains what they're doing and has examples of the results. It's incredible.
Do you really believe XSX SSD is a bottleneck? XSX is one of the fastest on the market.
No I don't think it will be a bottleneck in the grand Schemel of things, because it's still an insane leap compared to this gen. But at the same time they won't build a game around PS5's ssd. They will utilize it in some way, but not in a way it can't run on a slower ssd. Same with the gpu. This time 4K will probably be the base but PS5 will have an easier time hitting it than x1 had hitting 1080p. So most games will probably be 4K on both systems.
You cannot say PS5 should be about PS5 and bring up XSX, plus XSX's SSD is off the shelf? It's custom too... And they have not gone into details about their SSD controllers etc, only the API. Most of this is guess given that NDA are still in place and details are scare.
At the end of the day until we see games and detailed performance breakdowns we will have no idea how good the sauce is. At least this time it's not some kind of mythical secret sauce. The SSD tech and numbers are real, could be a game changer, and have developers excited. When developers get excited I get excited because you know people are figuring out how to squeeze every ounce of power out of these consoles. Might take some time, but I always enjoy when we start seeing the mid to late gen gems that almost seem impossible compared to launch window titles.
XSX is exciting and new as well, but I feel it will disrupt the PC market more than the PS5 market share.
Either way, can't wait to see the games on both of these systems.
XSX is exciting and new as well, but I feel it will disrupt the PC market more than the PS5 market share.
Either way, can't wait to see the games on both of these systems.
Andrea Pessino on Twitter
“Which is why focusing on metrics is missing the big picture. I am excited about the PS5 because I think many smart decisions were made that will enable devs to design in new ways, *especially* for expansive games. I was not making a comparison, just sharing my optimism. ❤️”
twitter.com
Andrea Pessino on Twitter
“A console is more than a sum of specs - of course incremental hardware improvements are important, but abstractions, APIs, integration, and most of all *architecture* are even more so. That's where the biggest innovations are to come in this age of diminishing returns. ...”
twitter.com
Andrea Pessino on Twitter
“Which is why focusing on metrics is missing the big picture. I am excited about the PS5 because I think many smart decisions were made that will enable devs to design in new ways, *especially* for expansive games. I was not making a comparison, just sharing my optimism. ❤️”Andrea Pessino on Twitter
“A console is more than a sum of specs - of course incremental hardware improvements are important, but abstractions, APIs, integration, and most of all *architecture* are even more so. That's where the biggest innovations are to come in this age of diminishing returns. ...”
But people on this board don't seem to understand that.
Yes, the Series X is more powerful and will likely run games at slightly higher resolutions and framerates, but PS5 games both exclusive and multiplatform will blow people away. And, as Andrea says in those posts, a console's strength is more than just how high the clocks on it's GPU and CPU are. API's, tooling and architecture are just as, if not more important.
The only take away off of this week should be that come November, two very powerful and capable machines are going to be on the market. It's exciting for both gamers and developers alike.
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Definitely this gen gamers will have both consoles to buy for different reasons. Hope both companies will produce awesome games. One winner of the next gen are we already. I'm really excited to see what 1st gen games will look. Hopefully a little jaw dropping will happen
What interests me is how Sony will use that IO/SSD for agressive culling. Horizon Zero dawn already looks that good because of it. In the right hands, very agressive culling (like loading at the near edge of the view cone) with these loading speeds could give Sony quite the edge in terms of what can be displayed on screen with a lot of diversity in the scene. This might make the TFLOPs difference even more negligeable.
What i'm curious about though is the lack of machine learning/AI discussion from Sony's camp. This imo is more important than TFLOPs, it's the way forward and can save a shitload of processing power. Microsoft was clear on this subject. Do we think PS5's CUs took those parallelism features of 8/4 bits for machine learning? I have not heard about this since the unveiling.
What i'm curious about though is the lack of machine learning/AI discussion from Sony's camp. This imo is more important than TFLOPs, it's the way forward and can save a shitload of processing power. Microsoft was clear on this subject. Do we think PS5's CUs took those parallelism features of 8/4 bits for machine learning? I have not heard about this since the unveiling.
This. Listen to what people who actually make games are saying. Both machines are extremely competent, and both will have their own significant strengths to play to. At the end of the day, the real take away is that they are essentially machines of the same class/caliber. This is a really good thing for everyone.
Very interesting stuff. Some people downplay SSD speed as just being slightly faster load times but it has several other ramifications and benefits in the actual rendering of the game. With regards to machine learning and such, I'm pretty sure they'll be there, seeing as they wouldn't have chosen to go with RDNA2 only to then not take advantage of those features.What interests me is how Sony will use that IO/SSD for agressive culling. Horizon Zero dawn already looks that good because of it. In the right hands, very agressive culling (like loading at the near edge of the view cone) with these loading speeds could give Sony quite the edge in terms of what can be displayed on screen with a lot of diversity in the scene. This might make the TFLOPs difference even more negligeable.
What i'm curious about though is the lack of machine learning/AI discussion from Sony's camp. This imo is more important than TFLOPs, it's the way forward and can save a shitload of processing power. Microsoft was clear on this subject. Do we think PS5's CUs took those parallelism features of 8/4 bits for machine learning? I have not heard about this since the unveiling.
This thread has a severe lack of actual dev reactions in it :)
Me too. I'm absolutely dying to hear what clever schemes will be concocted to give PS5 a way of punching way above its weight, culling is an obvious example but there are multiple sub-levels to the culling that I think can be explored.
When it comes to AI and Ray Tracing, the PS5 is trailing SeX by ~10 CUs. I think those extra CUs are going to be commonly used for Ray Tracing or AI Anti Aliasing by 1st party Xbox devs. while the remaining 42 work on graphics.
Cerny said it's hard to fill all 52 CUs with small triangles. It would make sense to only fill 42 :)
I have been thinking about the longevity of both machines, and I think that in 4-5 years time, when devs have had time to learn how to properly use the SSD, that 2x advantage is going to start paying off in 1st party titles.
What interests me is how Sony will use that IO/SSD for agressive culling. Horizon Zero dawn already looks that good because of it. In the right hands, very agressive culling (like loading at the near edge of the view cone) with these loading speeds could give Sony quite the edge in terms of what can be displayed on screen with a lot of diversity in the scene. This might make the TFLOPs difference even more negligeable.
Me too. I'm absolutely dying to hear what clever schemes will be concocted to give PS5 a way of punching way above its weight, culling is an obvious example but there are multiple sub-levels to the culling that I think can be explored.
When it comes to AI and Ray Tracing, the PS5 is trailing SeX by ~10 CUs. I think those extra CUs are going to be commonly used for Ray Tracing or AI Anti Aliasing by 1st party Xbox devs. while the remaining 42 work on graphics.
Cerny said it's hard to fill all 52 CUs with small triangles. It would make sense to only fill 42 :)
I have been thinking about the longevity of both machines, and I think that in 4-5 years time, when devs have had time to learn how to properly use the SSD, that 2x advantage is going to start paying off in 1st party titles.
what is drawing cycles, GE, and mesh shaders? I am not savvy to any of this tech talk.
The pragmatic approach it to wait and see, but the way right now it is being pushed and hyped is just silly, MS showcased what some of the features they have lined up with the Minecraft demo which is mind blowing, and people are just like meh.
Yet we have a SSD which is supposed to revolutionize gaming forever that by the looks of it will only be really optimized for 1st party games with out as much as a comparison between a current gen NVME and the PS5 SSD which Sony could have easily demonstrated at GDC instead we have a comparison with current gen with the Spider-Man demo.
Someone actually show performance difference between a current gen NVME vs a next gen NVME that is similar to PS5 SSD so that there is a reason to be hyped.
Yeah but when what they show off is Minecraft and it can't even run 1080p at 60fps as confirmed by DF it's not hard to understand we won't be getting 4k60fps AAA games running on these machines fully ray traced regardless probably.
A hybrid approach is more likely what this gen will offer and that IMO while still nice is not game changing and will be doable on both machines just that the PS5 will have 15% less of it basically.
DF stated that was a tech demo completed by a single developer over a week so that was HARDLY optimized.
I've seen a fwe of Moore's vids pop up on youtube since I started following nextgen news. Guy does seem to know what he's talking about. I did take my daily grain of salt while watching that vid, but it does line up with what many devs are saying on twitter and also aligns with what Jason has said recently. That SSD is revolutionary in certain ways. I really hope we get more details on it soon. Game tech demos would be awesome too. Wonder how long that'll take.
At this point, I don't think there's anything anyone can say or show you that will change your mind. It's clear from the way you've worded your posts up to now that you're very platform biased. Just let the argument go and wait until we get some good next gen titles to compare.
Interesting claims, but i dont completely trust MLID right now (he has been off more than a few times). What he says does line up with what Jason has been saying (roughly the same frame time for PS5 and xbox in third party games, as in same performance).
I know but if you believe that means they can get it to 4K60FPS a increase of more that would require more than 4 times the computation and then some is not probable in any sense.
It runs worse then ray tracing mods do on a RTX2080 but probably with some extra hands on deck it might run equal or a bit better. A 4x increase however is just not in the conversation.
Ex-Sony Game Designer (F1, Killzone 2, Wipeout)
We will only know when a game is designed for the XSX, any game just being modified to work on it won't have the same level of optimization. Also, there are different levels of RT that different games will have use for.
It's really sad that a 27k subscribers youtube guy have a better marketing strategy than Sony's entire marketing department.
Yes that is why I said full ray tracing is probably out of the question and instead it will be a hybrid solution.
