I mean this isn't an era-exclusive thing. Biden's treatment of women is not ok.
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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I mean, people are saying Sanders' campaign's electoral theories of relying on turnout of young people and winning with only 30% of the vote are dumb not to be mean, but because they're legitimately bad ideas that were going to self-destruct his campaign eventually. That's not a reflection on the supporters though, that's people going after Sanders and his upper leadership for making bad decisions.
It wouldn't be. Biden's delegates would control the process. You'd have an outside shot at Warren given the economic issues ahead of us, but not Sanders.
So when exactly was Bernie and his 30% going to reach out to the other 70% of the party instead of attacking them?
Never paid attention to the dude on the left until today.
This explains so much.
Hahahahaha. You know, this is so terrible I can't even be mad at this point. This world is a shithole and most people are bad, gotta stop caring if you don't want to die from depression.
It goes way beyond just Disney villains. The whole gross history of the trope has been written about a lot.
"whatever"
Really? Seriously, folks, there's a long history of this stuff.
I'm all for being critical of Pete but likening him to a sociopath DOES fit in to a long, disgusting and homophobic tradition of framing gay men in this way.
User Warned: Violating the staff post in regards to metacommentary
thread has taken a predictable turn
No, it is not about where Warren went. It is about WHEN she does it. But anyway, she will not endorse Bernie, so all of this is moot. Class solidarity first and foremost, so who cares. Warren thinks she will gain most by safely endorsing Biden when it is not hurting her standing (so when he becomes the clear winner).
All of this is second darkest timeline, to be honest. I hate it.
If those multiple Michigan polls are in any way reliable, it's really untenable to lay Bernie's failures at Warren's feet.
Many people fail to realize this.
It's why I think, despite not being able to poll better than Biden NOW, that Sanders is the better option to win the GE. Most dems will vote blue no matter who is the candidate, but there is a chunk of people that won't vote for Biden in the GE. Also, there's a chunk of non-party people that could vote for Sanders in the GE. How many? I don't know, but I fear it may be enough to grant Trump the victory against Biden.
"I know what will work, then, pivot back to the drone strike comment!"
Biden will neither be the first nor last serial sexual harasser who got by for a long time on a charming demeanor and the public's unwillingness to reckon with the clear evidence
I cannot fathom thinking Elizabeth Warren isn't endorsing Bernie Sanders because of class solidarity.
Yeah, who cares what that woman thinks? If she believes the best way to push progressive ideals forward is to step back or eventually endorse the winner of the primary, she's just a bad person because that's not the same thing I believe. She owes me the courtesy of doing what I think is best!
Stop denying her ability to disagree and make decisions in good faith to further the ideals she's spent her career in congress demonstrating to everyone are important to her. At worst it's sexist garbage, at best it's condescending and dismissive.
Funny how when anyone doesn't endorse Bernie it's because of the "pharma lobby" or a lack of "class solidarity." Everyone who doesn't endorse is immediately doing it because they're a sellout.
A reason Warren may be hesitant to endorse Bernie:
In 2016 Warren held off endorsing anyone in part because she wanted to have influence with Hillary over her administration appointments. After the primary, Warren worked with Hillary in coming up with those appointments. I don't know how successful Warren would have been in getting the personnel she wanted in the White House, but from what I've read it sounds like she was making inroads.
I imagine something similar is happening this time, with Warren wanting to be able to influence Biden's pick personnel appointees. For Warren, personnel is policy, especially as if you look at her plans so much of what she had in mind is done through the executive and administrative actions. She wants people in place who would implement those ideas. For example, much of the cancellation of student debt is done through executive action. An administrative appointee favorable towards such cancellation could lead to it still happening even in a Biden presidency.
Combine that with what I imagine is her belief that Bernie doesn't stand much of a chance of winning the nomination, I can understand why she wouldn't want to risk being able to have that influence.
In 2016 Warren held off endorsing anyone in part because she wanted to have influence with Hillary over her administration appointments. After the primary, Warren worked with Hillary in coming up with those appointments. I don't know how successful Warren would have been in getting the personnel she wanted in the White House, but from what I've read it sounds like she was making inroads.
I imagine something similar is happening this time, with Warren wanting to be able to influence Biden's pick personnel appointees. For Warren, personnel is policy, especially as if you look at her plans so much of what she had in mind is done through the executive and administrative actions. She wants people in place who would implement those ideas. For example, much of the cancellation of student debt is done through executive action. An administrative appointee favorable towards such cancellation could lead to it still happening even in a Biden presidency.
Combine that with what I imagine is her belief that Bernie doesn't stand much of a chance of winning the nomination, I can understand why she wouldn't want to risk being able to have that influence.
Good news!: Not only do we have a candidate currently leading the pack with an actionable plan to lower the cost of drugs to the costs found in European nations, but out current House of Representatives has already passed a bill to lower the cost of medication!
I dunno Biden's plan for prescription drug prices sounds pretty good?
The prescription drugs bill that Democrats passed in the House three months ago also would control costs and makes a point of targeting insulin prices.
I'm gay and familiar with the gay villain trope, and my interpretation was much closer to his than yours. So am I allowed to say that Buttigieg is a platitude spouting ideologically empty and cynical psyop golem or is that also (internalized) homophobia somehow?
So a gay man runing for public office cannot be accused of amorality based on his record without invoking homophobic tropes? This seems very similar to the Ilahn Omar tropes issue in terms of problematic language coming up because of a little bit of levity when attempting to make a real point.
this seems like it could be problematic. maybe there is more nuance here considered outside of the context of popular media where some gay men are most assuredly willingly embedded in oppressive structures for their own personal advancement.
I'm just a cis white man but i can assure you that we are not the only ones expressing that opinion about pete buttigeg
Warren probably isn't going to endorse Bernie because all signs are pointing to another losing Tuesday. Why endorse the guy who is going right back to being an Independent when it's all said and done instead of working with the eventual primary winner and within the party to make strides in pushing for a more progressive agenda? She is really good at what she does, let her work.
I think there are probably some good arguments for voting for Biden over Bernie - mostly due to his actual performance results in the primary. "People were mean to me online, so I can't support good policies", is pathetic and insulting no matter how many times you restate it. That's a lot of people's lives you're throwing under the bus because of being petty.
Get the hell out with these garbage accusations, honestly.
Imagine if the roles were reversed.
Bernie fails to win a single state.
He hovers at 6-7%.
Warren is at 30%. She needs his support.
And Bernie goes on Rachel Maddow, and says: "I dunno, I keep getting big nose emojis and anti-semitic messages on twitter. I NEED SPACE.".
Then he goes to the SNL.
This is unimaginable bullshit. Bernie would back Warren in a reverse situation in a heartbeat, and you know it as well. This has nothing to do with their sex. Nothing.
If that Michigan poll is accurate, Sanders is about to walk into another buzzsaw and her endorsement wouldn't make a difference. If Warren can get some commitments or appointments out of Biden in exchange for her endorsement, that's at this point far more beneficial to the progressive movement at large than some brownie points with very online people on the internet.
And you don't think at least some of the people who turned out en masse for Biden believed this would go both ways and independents would either stay home or vote Trump if Sanders was the nominee? Swing states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania contain more moderates/conservatives than liberals so just turning out the liberal base at the cost of the more conservative/centrist vote may just help to rack up the popular vote in California while losing the states that determine the election.
Where is that in the data though? 2016 was lost in the Midwest and it will be won or lost there again in 2020. States like Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin were all lost to Trump after several elections in the blue. 2018 showed us that progressive candidates don't have much play outside of safe blue districts. Sanders won states like Michigan in 2016 so tomorrow we'll have an answer to whether that was due to the moderate vs. leftist battle or because Clinton isn't well liked in the region for a variety of valid and invalid reasons. I'm willing to bet it's the later and Sanders didn't win due to any special sauce or nascent revolution.
If Bernie Sanders doesn't win this world is done for. It is truly that hopeless from a climate perspective. It has absolutely broken my heart to see that the democratic establishment and media would rather push for Joe but I guess the world is just broken.
Obviously queer people are not a monolith and you're allowed to have whatever take you want, but it doesn't change that comparing Pete to a serial killer locks in to a long, ugly tradition of casting gay men as sociopaths.
Your use of the word nuance is key. There's a way to discuss Pete without comparing him to a serial killer.
Hindsight is 20/20. Last week, this momentum could have been halted with a Warren-endorsment, POTENTIALLY.
If someone thinks that Warren is simultaneously not an important endorsement (therefore no effect if she did it) and everyone else critiquing her is "dismissing" her, the double standards across those two stances are magnificent and horrifying at the same time, to be honest.
Pete is a racist scumbag though who actually worked for McKinsey. Lets get real. Its as if no one would be able to criticize Milo. Everyone should criticise him, no matter his sexual identity.
It's definitely a bit of the realism that Sanders doesn't have much of a chance mixed with her pragmatism to want to actually get something done rather than risk it all for purity or whatever.
But I think also people are looking at this too rigidly. Sanders fans seem to think the only metric to ever measure these politicians by is policy and that's just not the case. There's a lot outside that, as you said including personnel hiring. Demeanor is a lot, too. Pragmatism. Leadership style. Results. There's just a lot that I could name. Warren really did feel to a lot of her supporters as the sort of Goldilocks between the usual people in the Democratic party and someone like Sanders. She was the policy, but she also played nice when she could, made alliances when she needed to, and always looked to be effective. She was the calm, rational voice in the room. Her supporters wanted democratic unity above other campaign's supporters and Sanders supporters want that the least. That says a lot. She wants to work with the people who are out there every day already working. Bernie calling out Planned Parenthood as "the establishment" back in 2016 is a massive difference. You think Liz would do that? Fuck no.
So yeah sure on a piece of paper they're both the closest, but really they're still very different people who assembled very different coalitions and ran very different campaigns.
Building coalitions is an important part of politics and some on the lefts inability to realize how toxic the dirtbag left is...is unfortunate.
Something to meditate on: why did everyone take so long to support or endorse biden? Why did people prefer every other candidate before him?
Before starting in on a "shame on you" speech to get people to vote for biden or (lol) be excited for him, just reach back and remember yourself from a couple weeks ago. It may help you empathize with why people aren't psyched.
Before starting in on a "shame on you" speech to get people to vote for biden or (lol) be excited for him, just reach back and remember yourself from a couple weeks ago. It may help you empathize with why people aren't psyched.
for those wondering this is a good example of coalition building
new yougov polls. Not horrible news for Bernie in Michigan, but not good news in the other states:
Poll: #Pennsylvania: Biden 59% (+28) Sanders 31%
#Michigan: Biden 54% (+12) Sanders 42%
#Wisconsin: Biden 49% (+11) Sanders 38%
Poll: #Pennsylvania: Biden 59% (+28) Sanders 31%
#Michigan: Biden 54% (+12) Sanders 42%
#Wisconsin: Biden 49% (+11) Sanders 38%
Just wait until Trump throws out his M4A plan during a debate. Whoa boy that's going to be a blast.
Sorry that you can't extend your empathy to other people who clearly share the same goals but simply don't have faith in Sanders ability to achieve similar electoral success.
I think we are massively overstating how online these conversations are.
Everyone gets healthcare and Mexico is going to pay for it
Because people had orders of preference and we didn't have any actual elections for a year+ to actually test candidates' ability to put together a winning coalition.
Then SC happened and it became clear literally only Biden had a path to the nomination out of the moderate candidates remaining, so they were asked to drop and endorse, and they did. Had Pete or Klobuchar or anyone else been able to make inroads with black voters this election would look a lot different. But no one else did.
anything that isn't Bernie winning is horrible news for Bernie
He literally cannot afford to lose anything
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