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Consistent whitewashing of Princess Zelda is a symptom of wider racial issues at Nintendo
- Thread starter Skittles
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I know, but what I don't like is when a White character is transformed into a Black character whenever they go to the "dark side"
It's not exactly novel, ya know?
I presume he got more of a tan after wandering the world for years.I'm reluctant to wade into this but I think it's fair to say how Japanese artists depict skin tones - and their motives for picking one shade over another - isn't so simple or straightforward. I was reminded of this piece of official Street Fighter Alpha art, where in Ryu's case darker just seems to signify older.
Talk about grasping at straws!
Light = Good, Darkness = Evil is literally the oldest and most recognisable trope of all time; extended back into ancient history.
Someone really wants to stir up controversy here out of nothing.
Light = Good, Darkness = Evil is literally the oldest and most recognisable trope of all time; extended back into ancient history.
Someone really wants to stir up controversy here out of nothing.
This isn't black face lol...I did know that, it's just to show a trend of fuck ups nintendo has done. If they had truly learned from it this episode wouldn't have happened
Jynx literally looked like a minstrel caricature, kinda like Mr Popo.
Putting a darker colour paint on your skin doesn't instantly equal black face.
Nah. It would look just fine in Tostarena. I could see some thinking Texas Cowboy but the hat isn't limited to Texas. It's used in plenty of places in Mexico.
I thought it was there during pre-release because they didn't want to spoil the lake kingdom image that was on the final box. But I can see that it's possible they had a lot of images for each kingdom they could swap out at will and did change it for fear of backlash.
OP, I definitely agree with you on some points here... However, as some people have pointed out examples such as Dark Link and Pit are just bad. I feel like you're just bringing in irrational examples just to get your point across. You should've just made your post revolve around a few good examples instead.
To be fair they argued "cultural appropriation" rather than racism. They're not the same thing but Sombrero Mario was neither of those things anyway because he's awesome.
I feel a lot of this is reaching, but the thing I can't agree with at all is the idea that shadow Link is evil because dark skin is seen as evil. Probably been said a bunch in this thread but shadows are a representation of evil since... well, before man! Many animal predators often lurked in the shadows before destroying their prey. Shadow Link has, well, shadow-colored skin, for this reason alone. The dichotomy of light and shadow is a huge theme in fantasy and the Zelda series clearly borrows from the theme a lot.
Oh jeez, just stop playing games if you are looking to be offended. The Spirits thing was an oversite and how is it white washing if the character never had some predetermined skin tone. Different interpretations of characters have been done many times. Yes they need to fix that because it can be seen as racist.
This this this. This is what I wanted to say myself. It is reaching. I understand the controversy with the Spirits.
The thing is, there are some 100% good points in the OP.
The thing with Lana vs Cia should've never happened, Tetra should've kept her tan as "Zelda", and the 3 Smash spirits mentioned are very problematic.
But the stuff about Dark Link, Dark Pit, and Twintelle are just reaching of the highest order.
The thing with Lana vs Cia should've never happened, Tetra should've kept her tan as "Zelda", and the 3 Smash spirits mentioned are very problematic.
But the stuff about Dark Link, Dark Pit, and Twintelle are just reaching of the highest order.
the traditional cowboy hat design was itself a derivative of the type of hats worn by mexican 'cowboys' or Vaqueros of that era
Sure it should be abolished, but it's also about as common as people with dark skin = foreigners (even Europeans), dark skin = people from the countryside, and plenty of characters that are japaneseish or foreignish very ambiguosly. Or just dark skin = fashionable, because it's a big trend in Japan, and even Europeans love to sunbathe because tanned skin = healthier according to most moms here.
There are also plenty of bad guys just white
Sorry dont see the racism here at all, blackface is completely different than just cosplaying a dumb pokemon to look like it. Any body paint that is dark doesn't automatically mean racial prejudice, this was just an overreaction to an non-ill intended cultural oversight.I did know that, it's just to show a trend of fuck ups nintendo has done. If they had truly learned from it this episode wouldn't have happened
This sort of reminds me when Americans, mostly liberals, would say that Speedy Gonzalez was a racist cartoon depicting Mexican stereotypes . Yet at the same time, every single Mexican I know, and the general feeling i get from Mexicans in Mexico, love him and find him endearing with a lot of heart.
It's immediate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtaujzukqWQ
Magic changing a dark skinned character to light skin is pretty racist no matter what Nintendo's views on these characters are.
Would it be okay if Nick Fury randomly turned white in MCU because his character has historically been white?
There's enough to point out.
That's what I would presume too. Or it was just a deliberate artistic choice that I don't quite get because I'm not a Japanese artist. But obviously it shows there can be innocuous reasons for making a character lighter or darker.
op reaching with some of these which just really brings down the argument, would have been way better to have a clear and concise argument than weigh it down with inane stuff like Dark Link, the argument isnt as strong when people can obviously poke holes in it.
1st appearance of dark like was all the way back in Zelda 2 in which its pretty obvious its meant to be a shadow of Link, not indicative of darker skin tones
Not saying that op doesnt completely have a point in some instances, but some of these are really hard stretches to go along with
1st appearance of dark like was all the way back in Zelda 2 in which its pretty obvious its meant to be a shadow of Link, not indicative of darker skin tones
Not saying that op doesnt completely have a point in some instances, but some of these are really hard stretches to go along with
There DEFINITELY is a tan= poor pale=rich cultural stereotypes all over the world though, and have been present since forever.
Dreadful OP, really. As I'm sure has been said many times already, Tetra is a damn pirate that stays out in the sun for ages. That's just how it works. Zelda is a fair princess. Dragging in the ARMS character, sombrero Mario and Dark Link/Pit is counter-productive to your arguments, as none of those has anything to do with racial stereotypes or "whitewashing". You're looking to create an outrage out of this, when there are far worse examples out there.
Lana should have stayed dark skinned, and Tetra should have as well. It's pretty shitty to imply that busty + dark skin = evil, as well as princesses having to be fair skinned.
Beyond that, Tetra is just a way more fun character than she is after she realizes she's Zelda
Beyond that, Tetra is just a way more fun character than she is after she realizes she's Zelda
As a kid I hated that Speedy Gonzalez cartoons always depicted a very poor and dirty Mexico but the actual character I loved because he was powerful and would always outsmart his enemies! Plus he was funny!
No one is looking to be offended and they shouldn't playing games stop because you don't agree you dummy
Lorule, not the Dark World. Also don't think either world really means anything for skin.
This smells like bait to rile up people, maybe even stoke fires between certain forums. While there is certainly a discussion to be had, this seems to be reaching as far as possible to provoke people.
Case in point.
Case in point.
Given that OP took issue with Twintelle for whatever reason...
Oh sure, it's far from novel, but I wouldn't call it raicst or problematic (I hate this word at this point)In games without much depth to characters like fighting games it's just an easy well to tell your audience what's up. And outside of fighting games I rarely see this stuff to be honest, because there the devs can give the character a more nuanced background they can showcase changing.
I always read Tetra's skin tone as being a tan and actually appreciated that her "darker" self turned out to be her true self (since she returned to it during the game's conclusion). Zelda's father being a POC is an interesting new take for me. I honestly never noticed that he was noticeably darker than Zelda herself. That said, looking at him now, his grayish-brown skin tone reads more "aged" and "grave" than not caucasian.
But you're absolutely right about the broader issue with Nintendo (but not just Nintendo). The company's getting better about it but they still do some stupid shit from time to time. That smash stuff is just... I wish they would just patch it already and apologize. I see where you're coming from with Twintelle, too, but that seems to me more a universal issue with how women of color are presented in media. I like Twintelle but I'd appreciate more women of color with varying body shapes and not wearing bikinis or "exotic"/"tropical" clothes. (Bonus points if they are soft-spoken, shy, and/or not prone to telling their white friends how it is.)
Slight tangent, but I want to raise the "dark-skin/evil version" (white hair and red eyes optional) trope for a second. You know what I'm talking about: Akuma, Evil Ryu, Violent Ken, Asura (Capcom loves this trope), Dark Link, etc. Basically, everyone's most bad-ass, favoritist version of whatever character it is. As a dark-skinned POC myself, I get the concern over associating dark skin with any immutable characteristic--it can be especially harmful because of how subliminal it can be, especially to those not targeted--but in this case I've always seen this trope as fucking awesome. Like, I know it's incredibly cliche, but I'm always down for an evil version of whoever. They seem less intended to be inferior to their origianls and more unrestrained, powerful, and, I don't know, cooler versions, I guess?
Where does this specific incarnation of this trope/stereotype come from? It feels distinctly Japanese to me. What does it reference in its original Japanese context?
But you're absolutely right about the broader issue with Nintendo (but not just Nintendo). The company's getting better about it but they still do some stupid shit from time to time. That smash stuff is just... I wish they would just patch it already and apologize. I see where you're coming from with Twintelle, too, but that seems to me more a universal issue with how women of color are presented in media. I like Twintelle but I'd appreciate more women of color with varying body shapes and not wearing bikinis or "exotic"/"tropical" clothes. (Bonus points if they are soft-spoken, shy, and/or not prone to telling their white friends how it is.)
Slight tangent, but I want to raise the "dark-skin/evil version" (white hair and red eyes optional) trope for a second. You know what I'm talking about: Akuma, Evil Ryu, Violent Ken, Asura (Capcom loves this trope), Dark Link, etc. Basically, everyone's most bad-ass, favoritist version of whatever character it is. As a dark-skinned POC myself, I get the concern over associating dark skin with any immutable characteristic--it can be especially harmful because of how subliminal it can be, especially to those not targeted--but in this case I've always seen this trope as fucking awesome. Like, I know it's incredibly cliche, but I'm always down for an evil version of whoever. They seem less intended to be inferior to their origianls and more unrestrained, powerful, and, I don't know, cooler versions, I guess?
Where does this specific incarnation of this trope/stereotype come from? It feels distinctly Japanese to me. What does it reference in its original Japanese context?
I bet you my house it was 100% done because of fear of backlash. Prior to release there was already some woke conversations about it being problematic. I never heard about those until I saw the box set change and I was so confused why anyone would have any problem with Mario in a sombrero.
Or op is black and takes issue with how nintendo does things in regards to representation
You dummy
The very fact you think Zelda changed races and not just magically got rid of a tan speaks volumes. Tetra was a pirate, outside most of the time. Zelda is a princess, inside most of the time. It's not that complicated.
I am Costa Rican, but we dont have something very typical of us that Mario could use, but if anything I would be happy. And I love ponchos, I bought one in the DF very cheap and I still have it somewhere... My mom wanted one as well. Good memories from a loving country.
Weren't the Twili the Zelda equivalent of Drow elves (often classically considered evil)? I feel like they went in the opposite direction to that in Zelda and had Midna as one of the most endearing and developed characters in the series.
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