CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.

[Deleted member 13077]

Huge thanks to the transgender community on ERA for the sustained pushing & fighting while continuing to educate and inform. Fucking legendary.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely this.

As someone who isn't trans or part of the LGBTQ community, I've found it exhausting dealing with the hand waving and hypocrisy over the last couple of months on this subject, so fuck knows how hard it must be for those who have to deal with this shit every single day.

 

[makonero]

On a note of expectation (and thereby maintaining a good level of mental health):

Cyberpunk 2077 being very profitable is in no correlation to the importance of this topic. Cyberpunk 2077 will come and go. The fight for transgender rights will have a positive impact for our societies as a whole far beyond any kind of impact CDPR can have with their products and profits derived from that.

What I'm saying is, try not to look at the threads celebrating the success of Cyberpunk 2077 and think it's a vote on how relevant transgender rights are. It really isn't.

But be prepared for "gotcha"-posts like "Cyberpunk sold well, so your agenda is invalid".

Seeing that this thread is sustaining its position on the front page (of the gaming side!!!!) is amazing and seeing people beyond ERA citing the OP as a source of info does make me kind of hopeful for eventual and meaningful change to happen within this medium.

Huge thanks to the transgender community on ERA for the sustained pushing & fighting while continuing to educate and inform. Fucking legendary.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. As someone who hopes to be an ally, I want to say thank you to the transgender community here. You all are appreciated and loved.

 

[Hakunon]

Sad to see that many people on the forum are still inclined to buy the game. I know there was a precedent in the form of the Harry Potter game poll but I understand that for some it's easy to distance the TERF from the game and hope it has trans representantion in spite of her (won't happen). But here we have a transphobic company and transphobic in-game elements, which by the same logic should be worse, but something is clearly not clicking.

 

[CannonBallBob]

But here we have a transphobic company and transphobic in-game elements, which by the same logic should be worse, but something is clearly not clicking.

Click to shrink...

It's because the "FLOPS FLOPS FLOPS SHINY GRAPHICS COOL AESTHETIC!!!!!!!!" of CP77 is much "cooler" than "LOLkiddie wizard stuff, I don't care...let's dunk on it!!!"

 

[AfterZero]

It's because the "FLOPS FLOPS FLOPS SHINY GRAPHICS COOL AESTHETIC!!!!!!!!" of CP77 is much "cooler" than "LOLkiddie wizard stuff, I don't care...let's dunk on it!!!"

Click to shrink...

Are you certain of that? That reads like a generalization about people who are excited to play the game.

 

[Persephone]

Are you certain of that? That reads like a generalization about people who are excited to play the game.

Click to shrink...

#notallcyberpunkfans

 

[CannonBallBob]

Are you certain of that? That reads like a generalization about people who are excited to play the game.

Click to shrink...

Humor me with your gaslight. Go on.

 

[AfterZero]

Humor me with your gaslight. Go on.

Click to shrink...

I'm only referencing one of the guidelines outlined for this thread. Nothing more.

 

[CannonBallBob]

I'm only referencing one of the guidelines outlined for this thread. Nothing more.

Click to shrink...

Right.

How do you feel about CDPRs rampant bigotry?

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Thanks for this thread and a great job on the OP, Kyuuji . It was long overdue.

The culture of transphobia in CDPR is irrefutable at this point, but honestly, I also don't think the General Lee thing is a coincidence or incompetence. If you put a reference to this car in your game in 2020, you're either incredibly (which is the operative word here, as in I don't believe it) tone deaf, or it's an intentional racist dogwhistle.

Click to shrink...

But tone deaf or naive only when it comes specifically to bigotry. Like no one here is accidentally progressive here.

 

[Razmos]

It sounds pretty accurate to me considering there was a thread earlier that reached 4 pages pretty quickly talking about the specs of the game and filled with fans not engaging with this thread.

Its pretty telling that they can say so much about the shiny graphics but don't have a single word to say about the problematic company.

But whatever, we aren't allowed to say anything about that. I've already expressed my opinion of the staff notice

 

[AGN]

So, there hasn't been an Era-wide ban on 2077 posts that don't specific talk about the problematic nature of CDPR? So, even though CDPR is incredibly transphobic Era is still going to drive tens in not hundreds of thousands of views to their videos, news stories, press releases etc. etc.? So, even though CDPR is incredibly transphobic Era as a website is still going to support their games and drive revenue to the company?

 

[Deleted member 46948]

But tone deaf or naive only when it comes specifically to bigotry. Like no one here is accidentally progressive here.

Click to shrink...

I'm super curious what problematic shit will the actual 50 hour long game contain if they managed to cram this many issues into the marketing campaign alone.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

I'm super curious what problematic shit will the actual 50 hour long game contain if they managed to cram this many issues into the marketing campaign alone.

Click to shrink...

I'm sure anything bullhorningly obvious in-game is curated out by content control, but many subtle things will slip through and build an overall image anyway.

 

[Ashlette]

Right.

How do you feel about CDPRs rampant bigotry?

Click to shrink...

Rendr:

So predictable.

 

[AfterZero]

Right.

How do you feel about CDPRs rampant bigotry?

Click to shrink...

In short, I don't like it.

 

[That1GoodHunter]

Jesus the timing on that open world games poll....

 

[CannonBallBob]

In short, I don't like it.

Click to shrink...

Will you buy or play the game?

 

[-Le Monde-]

It sounds pretty accurate to me considering there was a thread earlier that reached 4 pages pretty quickly talking about the specs of the game and filled with fans not engaging with this thread.

Its pretty telling that they can say so much about the shiny graphics but don't have a single word to say about the problematic company

Click to shrink...

It's pretty clear they don't care about it.

It's incredibly sad when we had the community, and the game media voicing their disgust with TLOU2 letting you kill dogs, but they all disappear when it comes to trans rights.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Jesus the timing on that open world games poll....

Click to shrink...

Most people ain't shit. Always remember that.

 

[PopsMaellard]

That's because a large portion of "the Press" in gaming are just fans. There are a few notable exceptions to that, like Jason Schreier, but by and large games journalism is kissing cousins to hype men.

Click to shrink...

Exactly this. There's Giant Bomb, Waypoint Radio, Schreier, but then the rest is just a vast wasteland of sites that largely act as extended marketing for publishers.

 

[Razmos]

So, there hasn't been an Era-wide ban on 2077 posts that don't specific talk about the problematic nature of CDPR? So, even though CDPR is incredibly transphobic Era is still going to drive tens in not hundreds of thousands of views to their videos, news stories, press releases etc. etc.? So, even though CDPR is incredibly transphobic Era as a website is still going to support their games and drive revenue to the company?

Click to shrink...

Aside from locking the OT as a gesture on transgender day of remembrance: no they aren't doing anything. Please be excited.

Apparently the people excited for the game having somewhere to talk about it is more important than this issue.

 

[-Le Monde-]

Aside from locking the OT as a gesture on transgender day of remembrance: no they aren't doing anything. Please be excited.

Click to shrink...

Will they allow Review/metascore/sales thread?

 

[Soi-Fong]

Most people ain't shit. Always remember that.

Click to shrink...

Just goes to show how "progressive" Era really is choosing to ignore the elephant in the room of CDPR being a transphobic company.

Morals, ideals and the like go out the window once your game is involved.

 

[Faith]

You just have to resign yourself to the fact that the vast majority of people, including on here, just don't really care. Not even acknowledging the issues hurts the most.

I shouldn't bring it up but that wizard game poll thread showed everything.

 

[Rotobit]

It's worth noting how it's winning the poll despite multiple responses saying they won't be picking it up until next gen patches are released next year, so it's not even the full picture

Folks can't read the room, huh

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Just goes to show how "progressive" Era really is choosing to ignore the elephant in the room of CDPR being a transphobic company.

Morals, ideals and the like go out the window once your game is involved.

Click to shrink...

I am reminded daily that people pick and choose which battles they are willing to sacrifice things for and which they will not.

Some people will buy CP2077 with full knowledge of this issue because they simply don't care enough about it to sacrifice whatever fun could be had while playing it.

Some people will buy a PlayStation 5 with full knowledge that Sony has leveraged Chinese slave labor in the production of some aspects of their products.

Some will buy Asus 3080 GPUs, computers, and monitors with full knowledge that Asus has leveraged Chinese slave labor in their production lines.

Some people will vote for Donald Trump with full knowledge that he is, at minimum, racist-adjacent and fascist-adjacent because some other issue is more important to them.

Yea, people will disappoint you more often than not. Just gotta focus on the ones that show support.

 

[crimsonECHIDNA]

Jesus the timing on that open world games poll....

Click to shrink...

To be frank I'm calling it the Chick-Fil A dilemma. People's willingness to actually swear off a product unfortunately corresponds with how much they liked/consumed it before the controversy.

 

[IMCaprica]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to let you all know: In order to shine a light on the issues and concerns surrounding Cyberpunk 2077, we are going to be locking its OT on November 20 which is the International Transgender Day of Remembrance. This will make the issue impossible to miss, especially for anyone using that thread the day after the game launches.

Black Chamber and vestan , who have signed up to create the OT, are 100% on board with this and both were fully supportive when we contacted them about it.

The OT will be reopened on the 21st because we feel it's important to have a space where people can discuss and criticize the game without bigots and trolls dominating or shutting down the discussion. We'll be moderating as strictly as necessary to provide that space. There will be a staff post and guidelines in place to ensure this.

Additionally, in honor of Transgender Awareness Week as well as the Day of Remembrance, there will be a site logo change for the duration.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for this. Means a lot to me. ❤️

 

[breakfuss]

To be frank I'm calling it the Chick-Fil A dilemma. People's willingness to actually swear off a product unfortunately corresponds with how much they liked/consumed it before the controversy.

Click to shrink...

The chic fil a dilemma 😂😂😂

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Ehh, like there is a conversation to be had about elephants in the room, but it's gonna get me threadbanned (at the very least).

So, yeah, uhhh.

Edit: if anyone knows about a proper thread to be able to talk about that, kindly point me in the right direction.

 

[bobliefeld]

Super cis, privileged etc. I've read the OP. It's well explained but I was thinking "yeah but...." about a lot of it.

Skimming through the 25 pages I'm not the only one.

Thing is though, it's enough that people are genuinely hurt by it. Believe the people who know what they're talking about, and the people who are hurt by it. Please don't buy the game.

 

[ClickyCal']

To be frank I'm calling it the Chick-Fil A dilemma. People's willingness to actually swear off a product unfortunately corresponds with how much they liked/consumed it before the controversy.

Click to shrink...

Yea, I brought up the chick fil a example a few days ago. Tons of people on etceteta talk about it in the "best chicken sandwich wars" discusions. It seems an apt comparison to this and HP.

 

[Tavernade]

To be frank I'm calling it the Chick-Fil A dilemma. People's willingness to actually swear off a product unfortunately corresponds with how much they liked/consumed it before the controversy.

Click to shrink...

This is a really good name for it. You can look at something like Harry Potter for something similar, with people refusing to give up their love for the original books after the controversy but wanting the much less loved Fantastic Beasts stuff to get cancelled.

 

[Cyclonesweep]

I am reminded daily that people pick and choose which battles they are willing to sacrifice things for and which they will not.

Some people will buy CP2077 with full knowledge of this issue because they simply don't care enough about it to sacrifice whatever fun could be had while playing it.

Some people will buy a PlayStation 5 with full knowledge that Sony has leveraged Chinese slave labor in the production of some aspects of their products.

Some will buy Asus 3080 GPUs, computers, and monitors with full knowledge that Asus has leveraged Chinese slave labor in their production lines.

Some people will vote for Donald Trump with full knowledge that he is, at minimum, racist-adjacent and fascist-adjacent because some other issue is more important to them.

Yea, people will disappoint you more often than not. Just gotta focus on the ones that show support.

Click to shrink...

I think there are 2 kinds of people like that.

A) The people who simply don't give a shit and are happy when companies and people dislike or hate what they hate

B) The people who detach the creator or the people profiting from the product.


Both just continue to hurt issues in very different ways

I used to be B for kind of my own sanity. I would look into almost everything before I bought and it ended up with me buying almost nothing cause so much had people who were jerks, had backwards thinking etc, and it drove me nuts and affected my mental health. So I stopped paying attention period

Now I do a bit of a mix. If a person has backwards or shitty beliefs, and keep relatively quiet about them and it in no way interferes with the product or they don't donate to shit organizations I can ignore it (I'm sorry) as the money isn't in turn being used to promote harmful things. But with Cyberpunk having problematic things in the game itself and the advertising I in no way can support it.

People can ignore things when they have to kind of seek it out but when it's right in your face, I don't know how you could

 

[Cyclonesweep]

This is a really good name for it. You can look at something like Harry Potter for something similar, with people refusing to give up their love for the original books after the controversy but wanting the much less loved Fantastic Beasts stuff to get cancelled.

Click to shrink...

Sunk cost a little bit there.
My wife loves and still loves Harry Potter. She isn't throwing out her books or anything, but she does refuse to support JK Rowling any further.

I think people often are able to seperate time between when they found out about something. For example, Witcher 3 is one of my all time favorite games and CDPR being shown for being transphobic doesn't change my love for the game, but it does change the way I currently think of the company and their future titles. You can't change the past.

Like Chic Fil A. You can still think they have great food and would love to eat there but refuse to go back because of their views

 

[ClickyCal']

I think there are 2 kinds of people like that.

A) The people who simply don't give a shit and are happy when companies and people dislike or hate what they hate

B) The people who detach the creator or the people profiting from the product.


Both just continue to hurt issues in very different ways

I used to be B for kind of my own sanity. I would look into almost everything before I bought and it ended up with me buying almost nothing cause so much had people who were jerks, had backwards thinking etc, and it drove me nuts and affected my mental health. So I stopped paying attention period

Now I do a bit of a mix. If a person has backwards or shitty beliefs, and keep relatively quiet about them and it in no way interferes with the product or they don't donate to shit organizations I can ignore it (I'm sorry) as the money isn't in turn being used to promote harmful things. But with Cyberpunk having problematic things in the game itself and the advertising I in no way can support it.

People can ignore things when they have to kind of seek it out but when it's right in your face, I don't know how you could

Click to shrink...

And yet in this case, it is right there for people to see, and still largely not acknowledged. The game itself will almost for sure even have more blatant examples with characters or missions.

 

[Cyclonesweep]

And yet in this case, it is right there for people to see, and still largely not acknowledged. The game itself will almost for sure even have more blatant examples with characters or missions.

Click to shrink...

It's obvious that the game itself will have more blatant examples. If that ad we have seen was the only real one and it was an honest mistake, it would be removed and we could all move on. The fact that it hasn't makes me believe there is more.
There are people who don't care about what doesn't personally effect them which, hey works for their happiness and sanity but is terrible for the world as a whole

 

[Deleted member 5621]

This is a really good name for it. You can look at something like Harry Potter for something similar, with people refusing to give up their love for the original books after the controversy but wanting the much less loved Fantastic Beasts stuff to get cancelled.

Click to shrink...

Sterling talked a little about this in his latest CDPR video. Shitting on CDPR for the same reasons he shat on EA is magically not ok, because people like CDPR but dislike EA.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

Absolutely this.

As someone who isn't trans or part of the LGBTQ community, I've found it exhausting dealing with the hand waving and hypocrisy over the last couple of months on this subject, so fuck knows how hard it must be for those who have to deal with this shit every single day.

Click to shrink...

I mean people I'm seeing are basically retreating to, " Well I was really excited for this before all of this happened so ...I'm still HYPE." I don't even know how old you have to be to have that kind of ridiculous perspective on something?

I know it'a a small part of the internet but it's nice to see the community (well, some of it anyway) here taking a firm stance on CDPR's bullshit

 

[mojo]

Maybe I'll get threadbanned as well but I really don't feel like a one day ban is enough. maybe it's just this year but I have zero tolerance for any fuckery. Stand for something or fuck off and I'm not sorry.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

I mean people I'm seeing are basically retreating to, " Well I was really excited for this before all of this happened so ...I'm still HYPE." I don't even know how old you have to be to have that kind of ridiculous perspective on something?

I know it'a a small part of the internet but it's nice to see the community (well, some of it anyway) here taking a firm stance on CDPR's bullshit

Click to shrink...

It's super weird. I was incredibly hyped for CP before all this. But I think two years of transphobia and dogwhistles (yes, it's been that long since the twitter shenanigans) should be enough to let people come off it.

 

[_Killa_Queen]

It's been hard listening to people be hype for this and HP in my friend group. We've discussed the latter and often the rationalization I hear the most is "I don't like J.K., she's a terrible person, I still love Harry Potter, seperating the author from the art, I only want to buy it to support the devs, the money she makes off of this won't be that much extra added to her existing fortune, etc". It's exhausting especially as an openly trans woman because the actual devs have already been paid/are being paid and will likely not recieve royalties, but the publisher and J.K. will. And any money going to a transphobe is still significant, including what will be a sizeable sum from the sales of such an anticipated game.

I'm not looking forward to explaining the nuances of why 2077 and it's marketing and game systems are transphobic, but this compilation will certainly help make that easier, thank you.

 

[Deleted member 13077]

I mean, putting aside whatever you think about Era's response to this, my main concern is that this just doesn't seem to be being picked up anywhere outside of here.

The most minuscule shit on the front page of this site gets 5 articles written about it, but no one seems to want to go anywhere near this, despite people in this thread reaching out.

Shows the absolute cowardice that pervades this industry.

 

[Deleted member 5621]

I mean, putting aside whatever you think about Era's response to this, my main concern is that this just doesn't seem to be being picked up anywhere outside of here.

The most minuscule shit on the front page of this site gets 5 articles written about it, but no one seems to want to go anywhere near this, despite people in this thread reaching out.

Shows the absolute cowardice that pervades this industry.

Click to shrink...

Reminds me of this:

I didn't write anything sooner because I thought that maybe I wouldn't have to be the one writing this. As this piece was in the middle of being edited (I've been writing this over the course of two days) my peer Danielle Riendeau at Waypoint published an article about Rousey's involvement, which is heartening. Still, I wish it didn't have to be queer folks speaking up. Where are our allies on this?

Click to shrink...

. https://kotaku.com/ronda-rousey-being-in-mortal-kombat-11-is-bullshit-1834446709

Nothing really changed.

 

[ClickyCal']

I mean, putting aside whatever you think about Era's response to this, my main concern is that this just doesn't seem to be being picked up anywhere outside of here.

The most minuscule shit on the front page of this site gets 5 articles written about it, but no one seems to want to go anywhere near this, despite people in this thread reaching out.

Shows the absolute cowardice that pervades this industry.

Click to shrink...

It's interesting, because if you go look at tons of reaction videos to the ps5 presentation...as soon as the HP theme started playing, most reactions were "yikes'" or "bad timing" or something. Even from some of the bigger ones like kind funny and stuff. I guess just because there isn't some defining leading figure of CDPR that is an open TERF, it makes it "okay" or easier to skirt around.

 

[MattyG]

I mean, putting aside whatever you think about Era's response to this, my main concern is that this just doesn't seem to be being picked up anywhere outside of here.

The most minuscule shit on the front page of this site gets 5 articles written about it, but no one seems to want to go anywhere near this, despite people in this thread reaching out.

Shows the absolute cowardice that pervades this industry.

Click to shrink...

Seeing influencers who usually are outspoken about social issues who are either hyping the game up like mad, getting free merch from CDPR, or are in the game just totally ignore all of this is infuriating. People who are partnered with or strongly backing the game/CDPR speaking out publicly would send a message and make it harder for CDPR to just brush it off like usual, but they're just gonna stay totally quiet because "well I don't want to risk my access."

 

[mojo]

Seeing influencers who usually are outspoken about social issues who are either hyping the game up like mad, getting free merch from CDPR, or are in the game just totally ignore all of this is infuriating. People who are partnered with or strongly backing the game/CDPR speaking out publicly would send a message and make it harder for CDPR to just brush it of like usual, but they're just gonna stay totally quiet because "well I don't want to risk my access."

Click to shrink...

Some of these people are making so much money on patreon that losing access to free shit from cdpr shouldn't even natter

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Some of these people are making so much money on patreon that losing access to free shit from cdpr shouldn't even natter

Click to shrink...

CP is a hugely popular game and losing tons of incensed followers is probably what they're afraid of.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Seeing influencers who usually are outspoken about social issues who are either hyping the game up like mad, getting free merch from CDPR, or are in the game just totally ignore all of this is infuriating. People who are partnered with or strongly backing the game/CDPR speaking out publicly would send a message and make it harder for CDPR to just brush it off like usual, but they're just gonna stay totally quiet because "well I don't want to risk my access."

Click to shrink...

Regardless of the thread size here, this issue has exceptionally low visibility among anyone anywhere outside of niche circles.

I think sometimes we lose perspective on that truth. Most people are not aware. Most people do not know.

If not for this thread, I wouldn't know either. I don't use Twitter to have seen or taken subsequent issue with their social media efforts. And so if I don't use Twitter (or at least, if I don't follow gaming social media accounts) and if I don't see or visit gaming forums where this may be talked about, how would I know?

I wouldn't. I think I'm the standard rather than the exception.

Assume most "influencers" are completely unaware. They're not sitting around on web forums or reading every Tweet forwarded along to them, nor do they have time to parse them; they're making content or working their day jobs. Don't assume indifference or malintent with people for whom you have no way to verify their knowledge of the issues. Or, don't assume so yet.