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spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
I don't see the problem—all of the economic value generated by Bitcoin can be invested into green energy. In fact without Bitcoin the world would currently be about 1 trillion USD poorer.

"green energy" isn't magic. you don't just throw money into energy until your carbon budget somehow becomes neutral. this may be shocking, but money can't actually solve every problem. and "can be invested" doesn't actually mean "will be invested" or even "will be invested in a reasonable time frame where we can do something about the climate impact of crypto, which is already like half a decade too late".

let alone the nonsense about "the world being 1 trillion poorer without bitcoin". where do you think the value that's "generated" by bitcoin comes from? at some point, to redeem the value of bitcoin, it has to be converted back to real money, you know. or goods/services that would otherwise be paid for by money. that's not really how economy works.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
let alone the nonsense about "the world being 1 trillion poorer without bitcoin". where do you think the value that's "generated" by bitcoin comes from? at some point, to redeem the value of bitcoin, it has to be converted back to real money, you know. or goods/services that would otherwise be paid for by money. that's not really how economy works.
Bitcoin generate zero value, every dollar "made" on crypto is a dollar that was earned somehow in "the real economy". I mean nor should it, like in theory it's a medium of exchange, and a medium of exchange don't generate value.
People confuse getting someone else's money with generating value.

Also, there is no way you can liquidate a trillion US dollars worth of bitcoin.
 

everdom

Member
Oct 29, 2017
526
That is exactly what they do. Companies send a shipping container full of ASIC miners ready to go. Hook up that specific flare point to a generator to power the container full of miners. It doesn't need a central supply.
www.businessinsider.com

Meet Crusoe Energy, which mines bitcoin using flare gas from oil drilling

Crusoe Energy's technology can dramatically cut emissions from gas flaring at oil patches – all while "mining" cryptocurrencies.

That's a really cool use case and proof of concept. That the excess energy is going to mining Bitcoin renders it useless.

Also, does this make the company any money? It's not like gas flaring is consistent and predictable in terms of volume. The article doesn't state that and reads more like a Silicon Valley hype piece from Business Insider.
 

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,263
"Yea but ethereum should, in a perfect world, hopefully decrease carbon emissions..."
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
how have you never heard of Solana when celebs are constantly using it now to mint their NFT's?

also in the past year it has done 40x more transactions than ETH has in its entire lifetime.

But I guess the only reason you hear of BTC and ETH is because of ERA threads about power consumption. Otherwise you would have never heard of them. Other than maybe BTC on financial channels
average_familiarity.png


Also why would I pay close attention to any NFTs, let alone celebrity ones? There are exactly two groups of people into NFTs: scammers and scammees. No exceptions.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,530
I don't see the problem—all of the economic value generated by Bitcoin can be invested into green energy. In fact without Bitcoin the world would currently be about 1 trillion USD poorer.
A lot of good things can happen if we wish them to be.

They are not happening. They are getting worse.
 

GMM

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,484
I don't see the problem—all of the economic value generated by Bitcoin can be invested into green energy. In fact without Bitcoin the world would currently be about 1 trillion USD poorer.

But it literally has no inherent value other than what the market perceives it as having, the real world money/buying power does not come out of nowhere, it's literally existing money being traded for nothing of tangible value.

The global economy doesn't get larger from something like BitCoin existing since it accomplishes nothing other than keeping a ledger of fantasy money that is traded for real world money, it's wealth redistribution first and foremost.

Investing money made from proof of work crypto currencies is the same as drinking a Diet Coke after having eaten tons of sugar, you still fucked up and the solution doesn't negate the problem in a meaningful way.

You are literally proposing that we fix high unnecessary resource usage by unnecessarily using more resources, it's the dumbest possible solution we can aim for, yet probably the only realistic one due to toxic attitudes like this towards the problem.

Screw crypto bros and the dumb ass attitude that it's totally fine to play energy monopoly in a world that requires us not to do dumb stuff like this.
 

LanceX2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,822
fucking dumbasses.

How much energy is used for this? is the energy used close to rhe value
 

cyba89

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,634
Don't worry Bitcoin will become irrelevant and ETH will switch to Proof of Stake any day now.

At least that's what Cryptobros have been telling me in these threads since two years.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I don't see the problem—all of the economic value generated by Bitcoin can be invested into green energy. In fact without Bitcoin the world would currently be about 1 trillion USD poorer.
lol wat

That money wasn't magically created by Bitcoins, it was only invested into crypto currencies and without crypto it simply would've been invested elsewhere.

Crypto itself created zero actual value whatsoever.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
Your time scale is years? And yet you just conveniently ignore how the next few decades will be impacted by disastrous effects of climate change? Well, I guess you can use your crypto-derived fortune to buy a position in the Reddit CEO's slave commune after society collapses.

Edit: Oof, I see I'm wasting my time.

funny how you think 10 years of crypto suddenly equates to 400 years of green house gasses pumped into the air. That with only 2 years of people complaining about the grenhouse effect.

the truth is everyone here is jealous that regular people are making money and they all missed out. At the same time putting up a front that they suddenly care about the climate when they themselves don't even care to know what to recycle or that composting is a thing in other countries except in America.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
first off majority of the energy is green in bitcoin mining. So the climate change issue is moot. Unless green energy causes climate change then we are fucked anyways
Wrong (lol)

funny how you think 10 years of crypto suddenly equates to 400 years of green house gasses pumped into the air. That with only 2 years of people complaining about the grenhouse effect
Again, LOL!

Dude, every single one of your claims is outlandish and completely removed from reality. You seem to be completely oblivious to what's actually going on outside of your crypto bubble.
 

Jonatron

Member
Apr 22, 2020
412
funny how you think 10 years of crypto suddenly equates to 400 years of green house gasses pumped into the air. That with only 2 years of people complaining about the grenhouse effect.

the truth is everyone here is jealous that regular people are making money and they all missed out. At the same time putting up a front that they suddenly care about the climate when they themselves don't even care to know what to recycle or that composting is a thing in other countries except in America.

Crypto evangelism is for parasites. Congrats for the worst post in this thread.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,851
funny how you think 10 years of crypto suddenly equates to 400 years of green house gasses pumped into the air. That with only 2 years of people complaining about the grenhouse effect.

the truth is everyone here is jealous that regular people are making money and they all missed out. At the same time putting up a front that they suddenly care about the climate when they themselves don't even care to know what to recycle or that composting is a thing in other countries except in America.
Andthereitis.gif

The fact you think showing open carelessness for the betterment of this planet on grounds of some perceived jealousy gives you the argumentative leg up is fucking astounding. Especially given the fact people had been railing against CO2 emissions for years but climate change deniers and people like you who only think about your wallet do your best to shut them up.

Newsfuckingflash: Some things are more important than turning a quick buck. Like, I can't believe this post is real.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,149
Unless mining creates energy, that energy used to mine could have been put towards something actually useful instead.
What is useful? People keep saying that. Do we make more plastics? Build more environmentally damaging infrastructure or products? Logistics to destroy environments? Where does the energy for crypto go that would benefit humanity and do those programs exist to where they just cannot happen because crypto is taking that? What is useful right now that isn't getting energy and how come the governments of the world aren't the main source of the ire?

Like, should it all be put into more shoddy house work with high energy intensive electric space heaters or AC units?

I am genuinely confused about these things energy can be redirected to. No one is saying where it can go that isn't some kind of pipedream because governments don't make them lucrative.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,550
Newsfuckingflash: Some things are more important than turning a quick buck. Like, I can't believe this post is real.
*looks at the state of the world*

I mean...

(Boy, future generations have their work cut out for them.)

What is useful right now that isn't getting energy and how come the governments of the world aren't the main source of the ire?
There's plenty of coal and natural gas to go around, so energy isn't an issue.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
User banned (permanent): Hostility and trolling over a series of posts. Multiple prior bans for unacceptable behavior.
Wrong (lol)


Again, LOL!

Dude, every single one of your claims is outlandish and completely removed from reality. You seem to be completely oblivious to what's actually going on outside of your crypto bubble.
Andthereitis.gif

The fact you think showing open carelessness for the betterment of this planet on grounds of some perceived jealousy gives you the argumentative leg up is fucking astounding. Especially given the fact people had been railing against CO2 emissions for years but climate change deniers and people like you who only think about your wallet do your best to shut them up.

Newsfuckingflash: Some things are more important than turning a quick buck. Like, I can't believe this post is real.

actually I believe the climate is changing to the detriment of human life I'm not a denier. The fact is I can admit I don't give a fuck enough about it to change my habits of eating meat, or spending money on a new EV from my 20 year old vehicle cu I don't have enough money to buy one.

also I am not rich I am poor. I live paycheck to paycheck working two jobs.

I can give a flying fuck about what anyone else thinks about the environment. My health is deteriorating cuz I need to work 80 hours / week just to get by.

call me a crypto bro all you want I don't even have enough it to buy a fucking gaming computer so fuck off with that nonsense.

I just post cuz you all post about meaningless shit which in the end doesn't mean shit all. All you all do is complain about everything. All day I see on off topic is another shitty thing to complain about.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
I'd rather the earth dies so I don't have to work 80 hours / week anymore just to put food on the table.

mom so fuckin tired of life. But scared shitless to take my own life
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,301
we have reached the "crypto is good because i hate the world" stage of post modern nihilism
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
What is useful? People keep saying that. Do we make more plastics? Build more environmentally damaging infrastructure or products? Logistics to destroy environments? Where does the energy for crypto go that would benefit humanity and do those programs exist to where they just cannot happen because crypto is taking that? What is useful right now that isn't getting energy and how come the governments of the world aren't the main source of the ire?

Like, should it all be put into more shoddy house work with high energy intensive electric space heaters or AC units?

I am genuinely confused about these things energy can be redirected to. No one is saying where it can go that isn't some kind of pipedream because governments don't make them lucrative.

If the energy used to mine bitcoin really is green, ie solar or wind or whatever, then that energy could be used to replace a non green energy being used for some other purpose. If it's not green, the energy shouldn't be used at all and should stay in the Earth. I do not believe suburbs or whatever you have in mind are a good use of resources. The fewer resources used the better, and bitcoin mining uses resources for a completely pointless thing.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,851
actually I believe the climate is changing to the detriment of human life I'm not a denier. The fact is I can admit I don't give a fuck enough about it to change my habits of eating meat, or spending money on a new EV from my 20 year old vehicle cu I don't have enough money to buy one.

also I am not rich I am poor. I live paycheck to paycheck working two jobs.

I can give a flying fuck about what anyone else thinks about the environment. My health is deteriorating cuz I need to work 80 hours / week just to get by.

call me a crypto bro all you want I don't even have enough it to buy a fucking gaming computer so fuck off with that nonsense.

I just post cuz you all post about meaningless shit which in the end doesn't mean shit all. All you all do is complain about everything. All day I see on off topic is another shitty thing to complain about.
I'll give you this - at least you have the balls to admit the unspoken driving force behind crypto.

Perhaps the eradication of the human race is a necessary consequence to finally rid the world of selfish, nihilistic catastrophic attitudes and behaviors like this.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,149
If the energy used to mine bitcoin really is green, ie solar or wind or whatever, then that energy could be used to replace a non green energy being used for some other purpose. If it's not green, the energy shouldn't be used at all and should stay in the Earth. I do not believe suburbs or whatever you have in mind are a good use of resources. The fewer resources used the better, and bitcoin mining uses resources for a completely pointless thing.
That's not up to the individual. That is governments and corporations working in sync. A lot of issues could be solved if governments put a bigger emphasis on greener sources, but they don't. My heating bill being high during winter doesn't mean people cannot use BC Hydro and HAVE to use Fortis or some other gas company. It just means these other companies offer cheaper options or more availability or EXCLUSIVE availability in regions where they are. This isn't an issue for the individual but for the government of a country to decide. If a country doesn't want to move exclusively towards renewable or a significantly less climate damaging source then what do you expect the people of the country to really do? Money is key here.

Trying to get cryptos or NFTs or whatever banned does not solve the problem of climate change. It is literally a small drop in an enormous bucket.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,396
Australia
That's not up to the individual. That is governments and corporations working in sync. A lot of issues could be solved if governments put a bigger emphasis on greener sources, but they don't. My heating bill being high during winter doesn't mean people cannot use BC Hydro and HAVE to use Fortis or some other gas company. It just means these other companies offer cheaper options or more availability or EXCLUSIVE availability in regions where they are. This isn't an issue for the individual but for the government of a country to decide. If a country doesn't want to move exclusively towards renewable or a significantly less climate damaging source then what do you expect the people of the country to really do? Money is key here.

Trying to get cryptos or NFTs or whatever banned does not solve the problem of climate change. It is literally a small drop in an enormous bucket.
Maybe it's because I'm tired but all I can get out of this post is "I've given up because it's out of my control and you should give up and be quiet too."
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,149
Maybe it's because I'm tired but all I can get out of this post is "I've given up because it's out of my control and you should give up and be quiet too."
It IS out of my control. I cannot actually stop anyone from mining. I cannot stop anyone from buying flats of water in plastic bottles. I cannot stop anyone from tossing those reusable plastics in the trash (or pizza boxes). Who can, though? The government if they really wanted to. You're directing the anger and shame at the wrong party. You are NEVER EVER going to convince the world's population from doing harmful shit to the environment. You know who has the power to? Governments by enacting laws and regulations against said acts. Why? Because they have the potential to enforce those laws. We do not.

Nothing substantial will come from trying to stop crypto because governments won't stop it. We can, however, put energy towards stopping things that crypto benefits from.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,396
Australia
It IS out of my control. I cannot actually stop anyone from mining. I cannot stop anyone from buying flats of water in plastic bottles. I cannot stop anyone from tossing those reusable plastics in the trash (or pizza boxes). Who can, though? The government if they really wanted to. You're directing the anger and shame at the wrong party. You are NEVER EVER going to convince the world's population from doing harmful shit to the environment. You know who has the power to? Governments by enacting laws and regulations against said acts. Why? Because they have the potential to enforce those laws. We do not.

Nothing substantial will come from trying to stop crypto because governments won't stop it. We can, however, put energy towards stopping things that crypto benefits from.
You also can't stop people from complaining about it here so realise that's out of your control and stop that too.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,149
You also can't stop people from complaining about it here so realise that's out of your control and stop that too.
I'm not, though. I'm just saying that trying to get rid of crypto on an individual level doesn't solve the things people are afraid about mainly climate change. It's always been a government / most world government issue. We need to keep that in mind because one absolutely has the ability to prevent any future damage from crypto and other harmful productions. It's similar to banning fuel intensive vehicles: yeah, I want them gone but me wanting my neighbor to not have them doesn't mean the government is going to do that.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,629
I'm not, though. I'm just saying that trying to get rid of crypto on an individual level doesn't solve the things people are afraid about mainly climate change. It's always been a government / most world government issue.
All environmental stuff which is going on in the world comes by the simple request and protest of the common people.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,536
Where the crypto Bros on here that are always trying to downplay the energy consumption?

I have cryptos but no BTC. I think most do not comment in these threads anymore because it goes nowhere. Personally I think BTC and all proof of work tokens are crap that should die. But we cannot have a conversation about crypto here because it all comes back to Bitcoin/NFT hate really quick (which I share lol).

It is my opinion this technology will gain ground in the coming years. Cat is out of the bag? We'll see. I don't think it will be banned, but it will (and must) be regulated.

Not all cryptos/blockchain projects are the same though. Just as an example, all the transactions on the VET blockchain last year used less than 3% of the energy used to mine just 1 Bitcoin.

According to the model, the total carbon emissions per year generated by VeChainThor is around 4.58 metric tons, approximately 2.4% of the carbon emission generated for mining a single Bitcoin according to [4, 5].
www.vechain.org

VeChainThor Is One Of The Most Eco-friendly Public Blockchains Worldwide, CTI Verified

Built on top of the VeChainThor public blockchain, the VeChain ecosystem provides the best resources to anyone who wants to solve real world economic problems and create value with the blockchain technology
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,179
Toronto
So basically banned guy up there was defending Bitcoin because he thinks he can get rich like the people who jumped into it 10 years ago did, right?
 
May 15, 2019
620
I have cryptos but no BTC. I think most do not comment in these threads anymore because it goes nowhere. Personally I think BTC and all proof of work tokens are crap that should die. But we cannot have a conversation about crypto here because it all comes back to Bitcoin/NFT hate really quick (which I share lol).

It is my opinion this technology will gain ground in the coming years. Cat is out of the bag? We'll see. I don't think it will be banned, but it will (and must) be regulated.

Not all cryptos/blockchain projects are the same though. Just as an example, all the transactions on the VET blockchain last year used less than 3% of the energy used to mine just 1 Bitcoin.


www.vechain.org

VeChainThor Is One Of The Most Eco-friendly Public Blockchains Worldwide, CTI Verified

Built on top of the VeChainThor public blockchain, the VeChain ecosystem provides the best resources to anyone who wants to solve real world economic problems and create value with the blockchain technology

I'm in this exact boat. I've been reducing my amount of proof of work coin ownership because they are too energy hungry. Banning crypto is way too extreme - on the other side, letting crypto be unregulated is too extreme as well. Regulation will be key here and it seems like it will come up more over time.

And yes, I hate NFTs. I wanted it to be more where you can take digitally purchased goods (i.e. a video game you bought digitally online) and be able to sell or trade it to someone from your account. However on a corporate side of things, I can see that they don't want to modify game DRM to allow people to undercut their current prices to sell what the company would see in their eyes as the same product.
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,334
Crypto bros: "Crypto is democratising finance, it's the little guy taking on Wall St., we're gonna make it friends."

Also crypto bros: "Have fun staying poor!"
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
I'm in this exact boat. I've been reducing my amount of proof of work coin ownership because they are too energy hungry. Banning crypto is way too extreme - on the other side, letting crypto be unregulated is too extreme as well. Regulation will be key here and it seems like it will come up more over time.

And yes, I hate NFTs. I wanted it to be more where you can take digitally purchased goods (i.e. a video game you bought digitally online) and be able to sell or trade it to someone from your account. However on a corporate side of things, I can see that they don't want to modify game DRM to allow people to undercut their current prices to sell what the company would see in their eyes as the same product.

What is the purpose of your coin ownership beyond speculative trading?