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Bayonetta 3: What changes would you want?

Cryptosporidium

Cryptosporidium

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
It's a common sentiment for many Bayonetta fans to look down on Bayo 2, or have beef with Platinum in general but Bayo 2 WAS an interesting and amazing game that could be built up for increased depth and a better experience. It seems likely given the timeframe and its first reveal that Bayo 3 will shown at the 2019 TGAs. Here are some changes Id like to see.

  1. Enemies can still combo break your combo's but you are given the opportunity to break the enemies combo break by flicking forward like how you use Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa and continue your combo
  2. Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa ability unlocked off the bat. However with it unlocked it would need to be nerfed in some fashion.
  3. More enemies can be launched similar to Bayo 1, however I'd be interested if a long combo route existed which could launch ANY enemy. Combo would be long enough that dodge offset would be a REQUIREMENT. Thus promoting better play and rewarding better players for their play.
  4. Changes to Umbran Climax. While it is possible 3 is a prequel going by the hair in the teaser, if Umbran Climax is in we need changes to it. Torture attacks in 2 were pointless, either make them better or make Umbran Climax harder to get (give it its own separate from the magic gauge).
  5. A better balance between set pieces and mobs. Mobs are a LOT of fun, especially given how big your combos can get. Ehile set pieces are great, a better balance of the two would be nice as I find Bayo 2 to have more set pieces than ot needed.
  6. Dont make witch time a requirement, treat it like it was in Bayo 1.
 
Naters

Naters

Member
Oct 28, 2017
35
I would just actually like to see some Lumen Sage game play or Bayonetta accessing her "lumen" powers as a change. She is half witch after all.
 
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Cryptosporidium

Cryptosporidium

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Naters said:
I would just actually like to see some Lumen Sage game play or Bayonetta accessing her "lumen" powers as a change. She is half witch after all.
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Oh that would be interesting. Lumens pretty fun in Tag Climax. I'd really enjoy more playable characters in the main story as well, I wanna play as Rodin in the story.

Also, differentiate Jeanne from Bayo more.
 
CM_Ace

CM_Ace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,374
San Francisco
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Palazzo

Palazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,007
I want the damaging changes Bayonetta 2 made to be either reverted or mitigated somehow. Umbran Climax shouldn't be as lacking in nuance as it is, and witch time should go back to being effectively an early-game tool and crutch like it was in the first game. Beyond that, I think I'd like to see Alfheims / Muspelheims changed up so that you don't have to trudge through really gimmicky ones in order to get top ranks; that gets to be a real pain in the ass on the harder modes.

poindexter said:
I would love to see a loot system similar to Transformers: Devastation.
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That's probably the single worst thing about that game. I don't think loot like that has any place in games like Bayonetta at all; all it does is serve to dilute the action by throwing the game's balance out of whack.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
- new haircut (hopefully a super long ponytail)
- pacing and encounter design like the first game
- less reliance on umbran climax
 
Valkerion

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,246
Give her main starting weapons more moves over the games run time. Feel like I stopped using them pretty quick in both games.
 
matrix-cat

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Beyond the obvious walking back of some of the deleterious changes from Bayo 2, one thing I've wanted changed about the series from moment one is the way it hides new weapons from you with the broken LPs.

I hate it. Getting a new weapon in a character action game should be a momentous occasion, with a hot action cutscene and then a wave of enemies to try out your new toy on. Think of Dante making Alastor his bitch in DMC1; an unforgettable moment in video game history. It should be a game-changer, but not only do the Bayonetta games eschew all ceremony, they actively hide new weapons away from you like hidden collectibles. I remember being so hyped to play with the new giant hammer weapon in Bayo 2, and then I didn't even find that shit in my whole playthrough and had to look it up online.

I don't begrudge some of the super secret weapons like Sai Fung that are there to keep the game fresh as you pour dozens of hours into it, but I want to have the basic arsenal unlocked by the end of Bayo 3's campaign without having to follow an online guide.
 
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,412
Houston, TX
Let me switch between every weapon in the game. Go all DMC5 Dante on us & give Bayonetta everything plus the kitchen sink.
 
Yoshi88

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,129
Wahtever you do to Umbran Climax, don't cut it, i'd say. Was the most fun system in 2 for us and so so so good as a non-hardcore character action gamer. I know there are flaws in it for pro-gamers, but it's just such a more accessible and fun system. Never used the torture attacks in 1, always loved umbran climax in 2, really elevated the gameplay for us.

And it elevates the whole world and art design so much higer with each weapon/ combo having it's own climax types and demon summons. It was wicked weaves cranked up to eleven and in a way a glorius playable final climax you only got in a cutscene with bosses in Bayonetta 1.
 
Pyramid Head

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,841
Yoshi88 said:
Wahtever you do to Umbran Climax, don't cut it, i'd say. Was the most fun system in 2 for us and so so so good as a non-hardcore character action gamer. I know there are flaws in it for pro-gamers, but it's just such a more accessible and fun system. Never used the torture attacks in 1, always loved umbran climax in 2, really elevated the gameplay for us.

And it elevates the whole world and art design so much higer with each weapon/ combo having it's own climax types and demon summons. It was wicked weaves cranked up to eleven and in a way a glorius playable final climax you only got in a cutscene with bosses in Bayonetta 1.
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Funny. The first thing I was going to suggest was throw Umbran Climax into the trash where it belongs. It's like having a 'Tetris' button in Tetris which you can mash to score Tetris's and clear the screen without ever having a Tetris.

I have a full list which I'll post later but I have to get ready for work now.
 
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Cryptosporidium

Cryptosporidium

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Yoshi88 said:
Wahtever you do to Umbran Climax, don't cut it, i'd say. Was the most fun system in 2 for us and so so so good as a non-hardcore character action gamer. I know there are flaws in it for pro-gamers, but it's just such a more accessible and fun system. Never used the torture attacks in 1, always loved umbran climax in 2, really elevated the gameplay for us.

And it elevates the whole world and art design so much higer with each weapon/ combo having it's own climax types and demon summons. It was wicked weaves cranked up to eleven and in a way a glorius playable final climax you only got in a cutscene with bosses in Bayonetta 1.
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This is a goodpoint actually, Bayo 2 is a lot more friendly to newcomers than 1
 
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,310
- Revert to 1's combat feel. Remove Umbran Climax. I didn't hate it but 1's is clearly better and what they should go with.
- unique playable characters like DMC instead of all being clones
 
Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Phendrift said:
Eh, Bayo's hairstyle is a defining part of each game's imagery. 3 needs its unique one just like 1 and 2. I prefer they give her a distinct, single hairstyle
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The possibility of having a hairdresser store with hairstyles introducing new fighting styles would be too great to pass up. She can still have a new starting style + a suite of new ones.

Naters said:
She's needs the beyonce braid lol
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Add Beyoncé as a playable character or boss fight while we're at it.
 
Violet

Violet

Alt account
Banned
Feb 7, 2019
3,263
dc
Less Umbran Climax in general please. Ultimately I hope they don't tweak the formula too much, I don't need a DMCV level of expansion to the combat.
 
NinjaDBL

NinjaDBL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,095
If they can't tweak Umbran Climax to where it doesn't have to be so mandatory, they should cut it, it's too op and makes the combat even more shallow. Also it hogs up the whole screen to where you don't know what the hell is going on sometimes.

That goes for witch time as well. in Bayo 1 it was used more as a reward. But in Bayo 2, it becomes a requirement.
 
DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Just make Umbran Climax into Devil Trigger, and not the mode that lets you kill everything on screen by mashing the buttons (or maybe keep that around for lower difficulties).

I'm also torn on whether Alfheims/Muspelheims should still count for the total level score on all difficulties. Especially because some of them are so unfun that I don't want to do them ever again and I can't imagine how bad less skilled players will feel about them still being required.
 
Hybris

Hybris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,221
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Rework umbran climax or make the combat less reliant on it to do anything. Make it less of a god mode button and more of a tool to use to get special effects or powerups on your moveset.
Make combos continuable from weapon swaps. Carrying out a combo in one weapon and swapping to another for some differing wicked weave properties would be sweet. May be tough to balance properly though.
Build off of Bayonetta 1 instead of Bayonetta 2 for difficulty balancing.
 
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Cryptosporidium

Cryptosporidium

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Hybris said:
Rework umbran climax or make the combat less reliant on it to do anything. Make it less of a god mode button and more of a tool to use to get special effects or powerups on your moveset.
Make combos continuable from weapon swaps. Carrying out a combo in one weapon and swapping to another for some differing wicked weave properties would be sweet. May be tough to balance properly though.
Build off of Bayonetta 1 instead of Bayonetta 2 for difficulty balancing.
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I think continuing combos during weapon switch is a thing with dodge offset? But every weapon has its own specific combos too
 
JazzmanZ

JazzmanZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,392
Bayonetta should have access to a time machine, and whenever Bayonetta is not on screen the other characters should ask 'wheres Bayonetta'
 
FakePlasticTree

FakePlasticTree

Member
Jul 24, 2018
10,263
Cryptosporidium said:
Honestly found the QTE issue fixed wholly in Bayo 2
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There are still QTE's tied to quite a few of the attacks you do, that is something I don't particularly care for with this type of action game. It's one of the main reasons why I still prefer DMC over Bayonetta. If they get rid of that and make Witch Time less forgiving then we are in business. There are also some annoying out of left field jumping QTE's.
 
lord_of_flood

lord_of_flood

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 1, 2018
1,743
  • I think they went in the right direction in Bayo 2 regarding balancing around Witch Time, in contrast to seemingly everyone else's opinion on the subject, but in Bayo 3, they need to do a better job of balancing Witch Time parameters around enemy parameters. Some enemy types give way too little Witch Time for how often they dodge/block your attacks and/or how frequently you get attacked by them, sometimes to a point where there was a need to enter Witch Time just to hit the enemy at all. Particular enemies (namely Sloth) were incredibly not fun to fight as a result. Overall, I'd ideally like to see it balanced similarly to how Transformers: Devastation balances Focus, where it's an integral part of how combat momentum is preserved in fights, but it's generally not a requirement to actually hit stuff. Bayo 2 had the right idea, and it mostly did it properly, but it went too far with it in regards to certain enemy types.
  • Umbran Climax should also be nerfed or changed up. Either nerf the damage values so it's not quite god mode (but it can still be an effective crowd control maneuver), or change it so that it's more of a Devil Trigger-like mode where you change into a miniature-sized demon based on whatever weapon you choose to use.
  • Airborne blocking should not really be a thing in B3 since it made airborne combos a lot harder to pull off. In B2 you needed to be positioned behind a lot of enemies just so you could get them airborne and keep them that way. There were very few maneuvers you could use to pull that off, so it shut off the aerial game for a lot of people.
  • Re-introduce item penalties for every item except for healing items. Getting high scores by chugging purple/red/yellow pops kind of defeats the point, because at that point you're cheating the game's systems.
  • Please give us a debug room ala NieR: Automata.
  • Restart from previous verse option. Most people get the Pure Platinum by reloading previous saves to effectively do this anyway, so PG might as well introduce an actual option for it.
 
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zoodoo

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,759
Montreal
poindexter said:
I would love to see a loot system similar to Transformers: Devastation.
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Yikes. please no!

I was found it annoying that some of the game's best mechanics are locked gehind items you have to purchase and that are super expensive. It completely kills my interest in being good at the game.
The on rail sections in 1 were atrocious. In 2 they reduced them but they are still bad in terms of gameplay. Just ditch them.
 
Pyramid Head

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,841
Hybris said:
Rework umbran climax or make the combat less reliant on it to do anything. Make it less of a god mode button and more of a tool to use to get special effects or powerups on your moveset.
Make combos continuable from weapon swaps. Carrying out a combo in one weapon and swapping to another for some differing wicked weave properties would be sweet. May be tough to balance properly though.
Build off of Bayonetta 1 instead of Bayonetta 2 for difficulty balancing.
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This for sure. Lean into the Killgore glitch and expand on the possibilities which could be opened up.

Aside from the aforementioned Umbran Climax bollocks -

Get rid of the underwater sections. Having verses take place in super lethargic slow motion isn't fun.

Cut the flying sections too. They look kind of cool the first time you play them, but the shallow button mashing combat is a downer on replays.

Bring back the weapon variety from the first game, especially powerful ranged weapons like Killgores and shotguns. The sequel lacked any equivalent and effectively removed an entire playstyle from the game.

Also, enemies breaking combos... To go back to my Tetris comparison, this is like clearing a line, except the line doesn't clear until you get a second line. It feels like bullshit.
 
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