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DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,582
Hyperdimension Neptunia.
I'm interested in knowing what you think about Lolicon in media/anime.

You think its cool that little girl turns into this

latest

when her powers are "unlocked"? Or is it okay because she's a game console/computer? I dont know much about the game past what I skimmed on the wiki so what is the appeal of her character for you?
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
11,761
Thailand
On Hell Teacher Nube (Shounen Jump)

The Author Clearly want Nube(25) end up with his underage student Kyouko(10) but
Look like Editor don't like it and go with Character people like most with Snow Princess Yukime.

He try to do that again on sequel when Kyouko age 22 and Become a Teacher.
Don't sure how it end.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
I'm interested in knowing what you think about Lolicon in media/anime.

You think its cool that little girl turns into this

latest

when her powers are "unlocked"? Or is it okay because she's a game console/computer? I dont know much about the game past what I skimmed on the wiki so what is the appeal of her character for you?
oh it's worse in the game

the game is directly appealing to people with these tastes and even drops the word "loli" affectionately, if memory serves
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,360
I'm interested in knowing what you think about Lolicon in media/anime.

You think its cool that little girl turns into this

latest

when her powers are "unlocked"? Or is it okay because she's a game console/computer? I dont know much about the game past what I skimmed on the wiki so what is the appeal of her character for you?

Can't help but feel like you're playing with fire on this one mate lol
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
I mean surely the creators are partly to blame here... I see a lot of complaining about fans defending it but not a lot about Japan making it? Even their young idol industry is absolutely fucked. Prepubescent girls stretching and playing in a one piece swim suit.. on YouTube..
 

Milk

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
I'm interested in knowing what you think about Lolicon in media/anime.

You think its cool that little girl turns into this

latest

when her powers are "unlocked"? Or is it okay because she's a game console/computer? I dont know much about the game past what I skimmed on the wiki so what is the appeal of her character for you?
I just ride along with what the franchise says. So sure, she's a game console, good enough for me. It's anime. It's wacky and silly and fun. That's why anime's friggin awesome. And she's adorable.

I don't even know how anyone could like anime nowadays if loli characters disgust them so much. Sounds hard. They're literally everywhere.

And they're cute!

original.gif
 
OP
OP
DragonSJG

DragonSJG

Banned
Mar 4, 2019
14,341
I mean surely the creators are partly to blame here... I see a lot of complaining about fans defending it but not a lot about Japan making it? Even their young idol industry is absolutely fucked. Prepubescent girls stretching and playing in a one piece swim suit.. on YouTube..
I've heard idol culture is pretty bad s well
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
I mean surely the creators are partly to blame here... I see a lot of complaining about fans defending it but not a lot about Japan making it? Even their young idol industry is absolutely fucked. Prepubescent girls stretching and playing in a one piece swim suit.. on YouTube..

There's a way to make this argument that doesn't exist as a whataboutism.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Underage is underage. Yoko looks like she's older too, technically she's still an adolescent. With your logic, being attracted to Yoko is all, and that doesn't make any sense. Unless you're trying to bend the rules in your favour.
You are being needlessly aggressive. They explained what they are talking about, they aren't defending the kind of typical fanservice in shonen either. Like I agree with you that all this stuff is a problem but you don't need to attack OP for it, he literally brought up the conversation in the first place.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,196
You're just not looking deep enough.



That "wall slam" move Touya's doing is definitely a romantic trope in Japan. As is the "I... you..." which he doesn't get the chance to finish saying.

IIRC, there was also one episode where some girls in Touya's class remaked how strange it was that neither Touya nor Yukito had girlfriends. So one of the girls started an all-out assault to try and capture Touya's heart, culminating in them getting trapped together, and Touya never showed anything more than basic human concern for her safety. When she confessed her love to him, he responded with "Sorry, I'm in love with somebody else." It's not 100% clear if Touya was talking about Yukito or Sakura or maybe both of them.

Considering the themes of the show, if you think you can see it, it's probably there.


I meant more Toya being into his sister. I have no idea where you get that.
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,582
oh it's worse in the game

the game is directly appealing to people with these tastes and even drops the word "loli" affectionately, if memory serves
Well then! Explains a lot, but I'd still like to hear Milk 's perspective. I do find it interesting that the character designer is a woman.

Can't help but feel like you're playing with fire on this one mate lol
How so? I'm genuinely interested lol

I just ride along with what the franchise says. So sure, she's a game console, good enough for me. It's anime. It's wacky and silly and fun. That's why anime's friggin awesome. And she's adorable.

I don't even know how anyone could like anime nowadays if loli characters disgust them so much. Sounds hard. They're literally everywhere.

And they're cute!

original.gif
Not sure what you mean by "ride along with what the franchise says". Also I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt when you say you find those child characters "cute and adorable" and ask instead does the fanservice targeting those characters not make you feel a bit weird? Like say I find that a child character in a show I'm enjoying has adorable mannerisms but in the next scene theyre put into scantily clad outfits for no other reason than to titillate I would probably drop that show because that's weird and gross...but for you its cool specifically because theyre cute and adorable or??
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
I meant more Toya being into his sister. I have no idea where you get that.
If I remember, there's a one-off line where Yukito calls Touya a sistercon and then Touya yells at him or something. I think it's in response to Touya saying that he's the only one who can bully his little sister. Touya is later shown to be secretly watching out for his little sister all the time, but that's presumably just because he's a protective big brother.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
I'm not dismissing/deflecting wrongly placed fan support of this content
that's literally what you did, even if you weren't intending on doing it.

that's what "WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT X" in a thread where people are talking about Y does

Like I said. There are ways for you to bring up that topic without resorting to whataboutism as a method. It's less about what you brought up and mroe about the manner in which you did.
 

Milk

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
User Banned (1 Month): Defending the Sexualization of Minors Over a Series of Posts
Well then! Explains a lot, but I'd still like to hear Milk 's perspective. I do find it interesting that the character designer is a woman.


How so? I'm genuinely interested lol


Not sure what you mean by "ride along with what the franchise says". Also I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt when you say you find those child characters "cute and adorable" and ask instead does the fanservice targeting those characters not make you feel a bit weird? Like say I find that a child character in a show enjoy has adorable mannerisms but in the next scene theyre put into scantily clad outfits for no other reason than to titillate I would probably drop that show because that's weird and gross...but for you its cool specifically because theyre cute and adorable or??
As in I'll just go along with whatever rules are set in place by a piece of anime media. Ageless game consoles? Sure. 1000-year dragon? Aight. Needs to embrace nudity in order to power up? Makes sense.

And naw, can't say the fanservice ever made me skeeved out. It only bugs me if the fanservice is in something that doesn't really need it (Fire Force as a recent example).
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
that's literally what you did, even if you weren't intending on doing it.

that's what "WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT X" in a thread where people are talking about Y does

Like I said. There are ways for you to bring up that topic without resorting to whataboutism as a method.

I'm not sure what you mean? Start a new thread?
it's very hard to talk about a chicken without mentioning an egg.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
We'll bring it up


I'm not sure what you mean? Start a new thread?
it's very hard to talk about a chicken without mentioning an egg.

"It sucks that creators are okay with putting this shit in their work" is different from "WHY IS NOBODY IN THIS THREAD INSTEAD TALKING ABOUT THE CREATORS? SURELY IT'S NOT JUST THE FANS WHO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY"
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,793
Shit's creepy and annoying and is in so much stuff that it sometimes becomes hard to justify some anime recommendations. Even the stuff I really like, I have to turn a blind eye to this shit. Fate is an example of this. Legit interesting stories ruined by an author or illustrator's creepy fetish.

If they ever made lolicon art illegal, I'd be fine with that. I don't see that happening though due to just how recent actual CP was banned in Japan. It would be interesting to see how the anime/manga community worldwide would handle that.
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,582
As in I'll just go along with whatever rules are set in place by a piece of anime media. Ageless game consoles? Sure. 1000-year dragon? Aight. Needs to embrace nudity in order to power up? Makes sense.

And naw, can't say the fanservice ever made me skeeved out. It only bugs me if the fanservice is in something that doesn't really need it (Fire Force as a recent example).
So youre saying youre literally okay with little children running around nude and being sexualized in media. No questions asked. And you find that cute. Okay.

Why does Fire Force not need fanservice but Hyperdimension does?
I guess there's a part of me that says if someone has unsavory opinions on this subject I'd almost rather not know.

It's easy to forget how many people lurk threads but don't post.

Yeah I get that. I studied psychology so I'm always interested in understanding a bit more about this stuff....even if it is really sick.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
I don't see that happening though due to just how recent actual CP was banned in Japan.
From previous topics where this has come up, I've been told that this is kind of an urban myth. Looking at Wikipedia, it seems that possession of child pornography became illegal recently, production and distribution became illegal in 1999, and earlier than that there were laws about causing minors to commit "obscene act" have been around for decades.

They're still super light on it, I guess, and as a society definitely so. But it's kind of misleading to claim it wasn't illegal until recently.
 

Milk

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
So youre saying youre literally okay with little children running around nude and being sexualized in media. No questions asked. And you find that cute. Okay.

Why does Fire Force not need fanservice but Hyperdimension does?


Yeah I get that. I studied psychology so I'm always interested in understanding a bit more about this stuff....even if it is really sick.
Because Nep is wacky and silly all around while Fire Force is supposed to be a serious story? Not that hard to see the difference.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,101
Kenshin Himura on the left here is around 30 during most of Rurouni Kenshin, but doesn't look significantly older than the 17 year old Kamiya Kauru on the left. It's treated as a joke in the series where people tend to assume he's ten years younger than he is. Considering the series' huge popularity among women and its tendency towards pretty boy characters, this decision seems to fit into its appeal along those lines.

Not to mention what happened with the original creator of Kenshin.
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,582
Because Nep is wacky and silly all around while Fire Force is supposed to be a serious story? Not that hard to see the difference.
So sexualization of minors is fine as long as the story is wacky and silly and the underage characters are adorable and cute? Thats what youre saying?
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,042
Mainstream stuff/shonen doesn't have lolicon
Doraemon, one of the most popular Japanese icon of all time, constantly has scenes of 10 years old Shizuka taking a bath in his manga and anime. Does that count?

I think you need to actually define what exactly do you think a lolicon element entails and examples of shows that contain them, because I feel like you're being really vague about this throughout this thread.
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,341

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
I just ride along with what the franchise says. So sure, she's a game console, good enough for me. It's anime. It's wacky and silly and fun. That's why anime's friggin awesome. And she's adorable.

I don't even know how anyone could like anime nowadays if loli characters disgust them so much. Sounds hard. They're literally everywhere.

And they're cute!

original.gif

Dunno if you're being facetious, but you're conflating moe and pedophilia. It's one thing to just have a cute child character but it's another to have them wear micro-bikinis and talk about "lolicons" and "flat chests" like those are somehow things that real kids think about.
 

texhnolyze

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,296
Indonesia
I mean surely the creators are partly to blame here... I see a lot of complaining about fans defending it but not a lot about Japan making it? Even their young idol industry is absolutely fucked. Prepubescent girls stretching and playing in a one piece swim suit.. on YouTube..
Supply and demand. Creators won't make them if there's no demand.
 

Deleted member 55795

Alt-Account
Banned
Apr 9, 2019
116
I just ride along with what the franchise says. So sure, she's a game console, good enough for me. It's anime. It's wacky and silly and fun. That's why anime's friggin awesome. And she's adorable.

I don't even know how anyone could like anime nowadays if loli characters disgust them so much. Sounds hard. They're literally everywhere.

And they're cute!

original.gif

No .. none of it is cute. Its sick and needs to be stamped out in Anime. Depicting young kids in a sexual manner is not acceptable
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,824
My rule of thumb when dealing with the medium is just to avoid all stories that choose to sexualize characters in elementary/middle school. There are exceptions to the rule with coming of age stories like Oyasumi Punpun or Penguin Highway but it has to be done with care.

Anime /manga set in high school is more of a case by case thing with me. I'm so used to heightened high school drama's like Skins, Riverdale, The Society, Sabrina ect that stuff like MHA doesn't seem overly offensive to me.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Doraemon, one of the most popular Japanese icon of all time, constantly has scenes of 10 years old Shizuka taking a bath in his manga and anime. Does that count?
Isn't the target audience for that ten years old as well? I know pretty much nothing about Doraemon beyond the fact that it exists and is popular, but some quick googling is telling me.

It's kind of a weird topic talking about pedophilia in children's media. I think we're averse to anything even slightly resembling it now so it's not very common, but when I was a kid I had some illustrated Jacob Two-Two book where the main character takes a shower or something and you could see his penis. I thought it was weird even at the time, but I was also a prepubescent boy, so I wasn't seeing anything that I didn't see when I myself took a bath.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Supply and demand. Creators won't make them if there's no demand.
A bit reductive. There was no demand for Lolita that I know of but Nabokov wrote it anyway.

Which is to say creators will make whatever suits their fancy, although there's a certain amount of push and pull with demand, tastes, cultures, laws and other socio-economic factors.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,913
JP
I will never understand old men being fans of media that revolves around little girls, even without "fanservice" which means "creepy shit" in the context of anime apparently.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
You are being needlessly aggressive. They explained what they are talking about, they aren't defending the kind of typical fanservice in shonen either. Like I agree with you that all this stuff is a problem but you don't need to attack OP for it, he literally brought up the conversation in the first place.

Then I don't get why they are trying to argue a distinction when there is none. Fanservice of minors is bad, no matter how "old" they're being portrayed as. The argument "I only watch Shounen because other anime is creepy" just really falls flat on its face when the entirety of fanservice in shounen is depicted with characters who are minors.

Anime, like any artform, will have shitty shows depicting things, that goes accross all genres. The majority of actual lolicon content comes from light novel adaptations that are pandering to Otaku. Anime needs to be, like movies, books, or actual TV shows, curated and looked at from show to show to find something that isn't with these issues. The internet makes this pretty easy.

Sometimes people recommend stuff too early, too, I remember Mother's Basement looking at this current season and praising Okaasan-Online. He obviously did that after Episode 1, and I watched it based on his recommendation. Imagine the embarassment upon watching episode 2 and 3. XD
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Some other relevant thing I just saw when I was closing a Wikipedia tab:

A 2007 public opinion poll taken by the Japanese government showed that 86.5% of respondents believed that child pornography regulations should be applied to anime and manga, while 90.9% endorsed regulations of "harmful materials" on the Internet.

So maybe the tide will shift and pedo nerds are a smaller minority than we thought?
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,042
Isn't the target audience for that ten years old as well? I know pretty much nothing about Doraemon beyond the fact that it exists and is popular, but some quick googling is telling me.

It's kind of a weird topic talking about pedophilia in children's media. I think we're averse to anything even slightly resembling it now so it's not very common, but when I was a kid I had some illustrated Jacob Two-Two book where the main character takes a shower or something and you could see his penis. I thought it was weird even at the time, but I was also a prepubescent boy, so I wasn't seeing anything that I didn't see when I myself took a bath.
I'm genuinely asking the question because I feel the OP doesn't really put their argument clearly, and I'm just left with an uncertain sense of what he's talking about. Does Doraemon count or, as you say, not really? How about shonen manga like Hell Sensei Nube or Mahou Sensei Negima that often leave the elementary/middle school students in various scenario of wardrobe malfunction? Are those what OP meant, or are those fine because their target demographics are 12-18 years old boys, anyway?

These have been touched upon throughout the thread, but the OP themselves seem to be caught in an "I'm talking about little children and not underage kids who look adult" loop. Which little children and where? Who defends it and how?
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
My rule of thumb when dealing with the medium is just to avoid all stories that choose to sexualize characters in elementary/middle school. There are exceptions to the rule with coming of age stories like Oyasumi Punpun or Penguin Highway but it has to be done with care.

Anime /manga set in high school is more of a case by case thing with me. I'm so used to heightened high school drama's like Skins, Riverdale, The Society, Sabrina ect that stuff like MHA doesn't seem overly offensive to me.
Western media about high school is full of sexual themes because that's part of that period of people's lives. Similarly, you are going to see that in Eastern media about high school. The problem is that the framing and handling of those themes can be really off and gross in anime/manga, which is less of a problem in western media (though sometimes it does appear).

Since you brought up Skins, that's a show that is far more overtly sexual than most anime. But it is contextualized and presented as the perspectives of these teenagers living their lives and usually has some importance to characters or story (not typically used for titillation solely). The way it's done in anime is often problematic (like unwanted sexual contact played for laughs) or just really pandering and not actually serving some greater narrative purpose, which makes it feel worse.

This is kind of outside the scope of this thread though, considering sexual themes in show about high school students is not what OP is talking about.
 
Jan 2, 2018
10,699
There are plenty of good anime I completely agree. Take out any that have sexually charged situations, fan-service, or panty shots involving underage character then you got.... What? Chi's Sweet Home?

Even My Hero Academia has some pretty excessive fan-service involving High School freshman in some episodes.

You need to watch more Slice of Life Anime! Best genre!
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Then I don't get why they are trying to argue a distinction when there is none. Fanservice of minors is bad, no matter how "old" they're being portrayed as. The argument "I only watch Shounen because other anime is creepy" just really falls flat on its face when the entirety of fanservice in shounen is depicted with characters who are minors.

Anime, like any artform, will have shitty shows depicting things, that goes accross all genres. The majority of actual lolicon content comes from light novel adaptations that are pandering to Otaku. Anime needs to be, like movies, books, or actual TV shows, curated and looked at from show to show to find something that isn't with these issues. The internet makes this pretty easy.

Sometimes people recommend stuff too early, too, I remember Mother's Basement looking at this current season and praising Okaasan-Online. He obviously did that after Episode 1, and I watched it based on his recommendation. Imagine the embarassment upon watching episode 2 and 3. XD
I think it's fair to draw a distinction just based on the fact that sex is part of your average high school student's life and thus media about high school students is going to reflect that. Whereas a story about children, or where child characters are concerned, should really never involve those elements at all because it's inappropriate.

Fanservice would be inappropriate and wrong in either context though.