lol ok. my interpretation of whats happening in china is more informed and nuanced than most people who keep yelling about IP protections, but ok.
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ARM cuts ties with Huawei, threatening future chip designs
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
Worse than NSA spys and CIA blacksites? How. You have to show me the receipt.
Well let's say you had a job at an company that China wanted data from. They could blackmail you via backdoor to do so.
Explain to me how a Government run program that completely controls people's ability to get loans, get jobs, find housing, get into school, and just generally function-based on their "social credit"—isn't a dystopian nightmare.
The fundamental flaw with that program btw, is that they only way to build social credit is by reporting wrongdoing—such things as turning in Christians and people who disagree with the governments decisions—so people are incentivized to lie and snitch on their neighbors. To build social credit and advance, people will do anything. It's incentivizing people to lie really.
You know it's ok to be against both, right? And the nice thing in the US is if you're against what the current government is doing, you can vote them out. Try that in China. But don't let that stop your "both sides" bullshit argument.
User warned: antagonizing another member with inflammatory accusation
Ah, that story. I get it, Chinamen bad. Nortel's demise was its own fault.
Imagine living in 2019 and trying to spin literal gulags, colonialism, and ethnic extermination are okay because of the US border crisis.
Nortel was run by morons, and Huawei is still both responsible to stealing their technology and having their business based on IP theft.
I don't understand, are you suggesting that makes it better than what China is doing?
And I'd bring up the Homan Square but let's leave that for another time.
And it's not whataboutism, why constantly bring up what China is doing and ignore similar things the US has done and continues to do?
You can buy a stolen game console off a truck in a back alley cheaper than you can buy one at a store. Doesn't mean it's good for the economy overall.
Then maybe the stakeholders should try proving it in court and get a settlement.
All things the US is guilty of in its own borders as well as abroad.
And was it a border crisis before Trump decided to start tearing families apart? I don't recall much of a crisis during the Obama years.
Sure it will for a time but the market will rebound as it does and honestly seeing folks defend Huawei while at the same time criticizing Amazon is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Amazon is also a shit company but unlike Huawei they are not under investigation for industrial espionage in several countries Huawei can't be trusted.
The biggest threat to the free market is giant conglomerates and Huawei is one that has engaged in illegal activities and are supported by a authoritarian regime and no Apple is not supported by an authoritarian regime no matter how much you hate them (and I understand if you do),
The reality is that China has global trade by the balls and the question has come for us to ask if that is really such a good idea.
I mean they are not really comparable in their scale at all. Also journalists and lawyers have gotten access to some of the US detainment center and have published extensive articles on them. How many journalists and lawyers have been able to visit the Chinese camps?
Edit: I should add that the US did some horrible things and was never held accountable for any of it. But I would hope people would recognize just because some got away with it doesn't mean others should as well.
It's kind of funny actually. I was at a town hall meeting for work last Thursday, and during the Q&A segment someone asked about if the company would stop doing business with Huawei given their current controversy. Watching our head of operations shuffle around the question was kind of entertaining—basically that he "couldn't comment on geopolitics". Especially when I check my work email Saturday and saw they were announcing we would no longer be doing business with Huawei and HiSilicon.
Stealing isnt the same here.
Its more of a forntnite scenario where it came last, took the ideas from other games, made a more polished game free and destroyed everyone else.
You weren't paying attention if you didn't hear about the migrant children crisis during the Obama years as it was going on.
At this point, just own up to all the whataboutism you've posted here.
Well, no, its more akin to if a company stole fortnites codebase and released a modified version.
Don't criticize China or its companies guys its sinophobia even though they are taking the steps to commit genocide to their uighur population.
Apple really doesn't represent US the way people think it does. It employ tons of people in China, sells mostly to develop counties and has zero market share in India and only 10% in China. It just stash its money in Ireland and waste it on DOA streaming service. Shutting down Apple operations in China doesn't really hurt US that much. Cancelling future Boeing contracts would hurt much more. I can also see tons of regulatory fines on Ford/GM in China.
In case you didn't get the memo, it's not trade war now, it's full on Neo Cold War.
In case you didn't get the memo, it's not trade war now, it's full on Neo Cold War.
Trump playing with matches and progressives clapping rhythm. What a travesty. I hope China doesn't feel too cornered, since it could lead to some really bad things. You can shut them out of ISS, but trying to do so with world trade is madness.They're not going to acquiesce to gunboat diplomacy anymore, they're going to shoot the gunboats right out of the water and that's a recipe for disaster.
It's easy to offer good deals when you don't need to pay for R&D. I don't think you realize how much money is spent developing a lot of the tech that goes into smartphones. As someone who works in semiconductor manufacturing, I can tell you some of these companies spend billions a year to stay on the cutting edge. For Huawei to avoid any real investment costs, it inherently gives them a massive advantage.
The last 2 days on this board have been interesting. The whataboutism is strong indeed.
However I am not sure I like this move too much. American companies do have a good amount of business in China and that could hurt the economy. On the other have, China has been stealing for years and they are using Huawei's tech for spying purposes. This move could put the hurt on them so badly.
However I am not sure I like this move too much. American companies do have a good amount of business in China and that could hurt the economy. On the other have, China has been stealing for years and they are using Huawei's tech for spying purposes. This move could put the hurt on them so badly.
Nah, it's fine, you only kill people around the world per remote control.
I'm telling you it's cool if everybody stealing
Everybody steals
No need to R&D anymore
Nobody R&Ds
???
Profit !
This must be a joke. China has stolen technology, IP, and manufacturing processes for years and unfairly enjoyed the protection of the Chinese government to protect themselves from reprocussions.
Holy shit this is something a character from Black Mirror would say.
Every defense of the PRC I've read in this thread has been a whataboutism at best and fascistic drivel like this at worst.
I don't need to realistically think anything actually, this isn't speculative fiction driven by unsubstantiated "yellow peril" xenophobia. China is actively doing things with data they're collecting from private citizens TODAY that is both incredibly invasive and highly authoritarian. There is a wealth of reporting on this from foreign watchdogs and nothing anyone has said in this thread or the others on Huawei/PRC has refuted these criticisms.
I'm not going to excuse the missteps the US government has taken against its private citizens since 9/11 but I've never once feared that criticizing my own government would get me disappeared or placed into one of China's lovely re-education camps. That is a monumental difference between how privacy is handled between these two countries that many bad faith posters in this thread are consciously choosing to ignore.
Newflash, two things can be bad but one can be actively worse. The us killed hundreds of thousands in the Iraq war and the drone program is a horrible mistake.
That wrong doesn't absolve anything china has done.
Is there a reason why the US should accept spying by Chinese companies on behalf of the Chinese government.
I really dont have good way of knowing, but I'm pretty ure the price difference between my P20 pro and an Iphone X isnt because of R&D, specially considering the camera in the Huawei phone is better (and the reason most people are buying Huawei) isnt stolen since its better than the competition.
ook at the crsis with HIV medication to see what happens when you value IP protection over consumers.
In manufacturing you dont need to reinvent the wheel if someone else aready did it, you just make a better product with a better process.
Chinese manufacturers COMPETITORS share info between them so they can improve their production process, suppliers prices, etc... and they al become prome competitive but still earn their customers by offering better support.
R&D will always be done in the tech industry, its jsut that just being the first at something isnt enough, you should also be BETTER to justify your price and product.
There's a reason we keep buying games but we dont buy the chinese copies, its because of quality.
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try being black or undocumented in the US. to say nothing of the fact that we're rapidly becoming a one-party state where the GOP can lose the popular vote by 3 million and still control every branch of govt
China copies every little thing and sells it a lot cheaper. Vacuums, Drones, Taps, Motorcycle Housing, Scooters, you name it and AliExpress and Taobao will have it.
Great for the consumer, but sucks for the original creator.
Personally I had a product that we designed, prototyped, and finally manufactured in China. In 8 months a cheaper product was duplicated and took over our marketshare. Everything was the same, including the internals.
Great for the consumer, but sucks for the original creator.
Personally I had a product that we designed, prototyped, and finally manufactured in China. In 8 months a cheaper product was duplicated and took over our marketshare. Everything was the same, including the internals.
Should have stopped there
But do you have proof? /s
I never said the us spying on its own citizen was cool just said that it's nonsense to use that as a reason that we should accept Chinese spying.
And no, we aren't heading toward a single party govt.
If you have no need for years of R&D due to corporate theft then of course you can make things cheaper. But if the other party you steal from goes out of business because they can't recoup those costs then you have no more technology or IP to steal.
You can claim it doesn't cost this or that for R&D for a specific project but they've got to invest in many more strands of research in other products over many years, some of which are dead ends.
Unlike Chinese companies they don't have the luxury of just investing everything into backwards engineering other people's products. I don't respect China at all due to copious theft that goes on.
Sometimes it's even before the product is available. Plenty of stories of Kickstarter products that have been beaten to market after they got funded by a Chinese company.
One could frame it as you taking a risk exploiting underpaid manufacturing workers and getting burned. Of course it's often the only choice a small business has these days, but that just means it's a cutthroat world both ways.
What the fuck. Just because you've convinced yourself that a negative stance against Huawei is a pretense for veiled racism doesn't give you a pass to throw around racial slurs. Quit that shit.
So, you think the Iphone X cost double just because of R&D?
I mean, my post specifically was in reference to people living in thr West. Obviously it wasn't a catch all statement for everyone. If I lived in China, my opinion would be the opposite.
While I agree with your Russia point in general, it's not about allowing or excusing one country vs the other. My point was specifically in reference to who I'd rather have spy on me. For me, China has less interest in looking at my personal data. The US has far more interest in spying on its citizens and manipulating them in a Russia-like campaign.
This is true and they could be targets. I dont think that applies to the vast majority of people on here though. It doesnt apply to me specifically which is why I'd rather they spy on me than the country I live in (which has a vested interest in manipulating me so that certain parties can maintain power).
I have no idea why you're quoting my post with this response. What China does to its citizens is wrong but it has nothing to do with who I'd rather have looking through my personal data. Just because I dont think China can do anything with my data doesnt mean it's a show of support for their actions.
If you are alluding to armed conflict, don't, because it's not.
Ok, if this is the case then the US isn't treating China unfairly. Just giving some of China's medicine back to them in this crazy cutthroat world we live in which cuts both ways.
Trump really wants to win that trade war and get reelected.. I know China isn't completely innocent here but if they give in to US demands then trump will be assured reelection, that's all it comes down to. Companies are being pressured by the state department to cut ties with Huawei most likely so trump can force china to sign a trade agreement completely favoring the US in exchange for lifting pressure on Huawei.
Oh it is. Some of us just want it to be as stable as possible and without brinksmanship. Do you want China to start making moves on Taiwan or restricting access to rare earth metals?
100% with USA in charge of 5G.
With the USA at least you have a multitude of companies who will bring 5G together, where as with China it's only 1 company (Huawei - aka China).