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Apple fires back in court, says Epic Games CEO asked for special treatment [Tim Sweeney Denies]

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WhtR88t

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,651
SteveWinwood said:
The only people I've ever met who've had issues with Android are people who have never used it and then talk about how iOS is the best.

As they get "new" features people have already been enjoying for years on Android.
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I have a lot of experience with both platforms and my honest opinion is that it kinda sucks compared to iOS. It's main advantages are it's "open" and cheap. Other than that… yes, a lot of times Android gets features first, but imo iOS tends to do them right.

First doesn't mean they're good.

Also not to mention that the performance of iOS annihilates Android as does the support for future OS updates, security updates and privacy protection yada yada. Just sucks that it's so locked down (and could be more open if Epic won).
 
orochi91

orochi91

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Oct 26, 2017
9,890
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Toumari said:
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We shouldn't have doubted you, Tim~

EEN41KFXoAUDGs8
 
nib95

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Armadilo said:
So Epic was like give us a special deal and then at the very end they wrote "Hopefully other delevelopers get the deal too" but sign off on our special deal first.
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If Epic were able to get such a deal, whether via Apple or through legal means, the end result is ultimately similar, it opens the floodgates to others demanding or getting the same.
 
Prine

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Honestly, I'm happy to see Apple knock Epic down a peg or two.
 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,398
Even if Epic were ok with others being able to create a side store on iOS as well, there are few others who can stand to benefit from it as much as epic can, and epic can crush those with anti-competitive practices by making games exclusive to their store on iOS. So they can frame it altruistically, but not a lot of other players have the ability to throw enough money around to actually succeed as a second store.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,333
dep9000 said:
He lied about asking for a deal, but there isn't an issue about asking for a deal. Lots of companies do this. No big deal. This doesn't hurt Epic's lawsuit.
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- Admits Epic agreed to Apple's TOS
- Asked for an exception to the policy
- Request was denied
- Instead of taking Apple to court to have policy changed, proceeded to break TOS anyway
- Breaking rules didn't work out for them, so they result to filing a lawsuit that was prepared well in advance of any of this
 

c bweezie

Member
Jan 8, 2020
717
Without seeing the emails, and out of context, that reads to me like a characterization of Epic's email by Apple's lawyers. Which is what Apple pays it lawyers to do. seems kind of like a non story to me.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
SpottieO said:
Do this thing for me or I sue, you can maybe throw a bone to those folks over there if you want.
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Lol pretty much, and Epic would obviously make a ton of cash by having EGS with no Apple fee on iPhone so it's hilarious that he tried to make it sound like he was doing this for the little guys.
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,134
What a shocker that Epic would say one thing publicly and do the exact opposite privately.
 
Windu

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,702
spam musubi said:
Even if Epic were ok with others being able to create a side store on iOS as well, there are few others who can stand to benefit from it as much as epic can, and epic can crush those with anti-competitive practices by making games exclusive to their store on iOS. So they can frame it altruistically, but not a lot of other players have the ability to throw enough money around to actually succeed as a second store.
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There are plenty that could do well. In gaming, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, Valve, GOG, EA, etc.. could all do well if they could build a store on iOS. Tbh, I think gaming would be the biggest driver for people going to other storefronts. Of course there are others that might be successful like Amazon etc.. but I think you really need that enticing content to make you go out of your way to download another store, and gaming is the big one imo. (especially when the current mobile market for games is absolutely awful.)
 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,398
Windu said:
There are plenty that could do well. In gaming, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, Valve, GOG, EA, etc.. could all do well if they could build a store on iOS. Tbh, I think gaming would be the biggest driver for people going to other storefronts. Of course there are others that might be successful like Amazon etc.. but I think you really need that enticing content to make you go out of your way to download another store, and gaming is the big one imo.
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None of those have a significant mobile presence other than Nintendo. Epic have the benefit of unreal engine providing an easy path for any game to be migrated to iOS. They are uniquely positioned. Also I doubt that any of those would follow a loss leader strategy like epic do with EGS on PC
 
Windu

Windu

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Oct 25, 2017
13,702
spam musubi said:
None of those have a significant mobile presence other than Nintendo. Epic have the benefit of unreal engine providing an easy path for any game to be migrated to iOS. They are uniquely positioned. Also I doubt that any of those would follow a loss leader strategy like epic do with EGS on PC
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Well none of them have a significant mobile presence because they can't. If iOS was open, I think they'd put their foot in the door.
 
Armaros

Armaros

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Oct 25, 2017
4,902
Windu said:
Well none of them have a significant mobile presence because they can't. If iOS was open, I think they'd put their foot in the door.
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Why would any of them have any presence of mobile? just because they are game companies?

Then whats stopping them from also being on PC? There is no gatekeeper keeping them from entering, and yet only one of the three has any presence on PC. Your thesis falls apart from basic common sense and is just plain wishful thinking.
 
Talus

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
Was the special deal Tim asked for was to be able to sell direct to consumers through their app?

Some of you sure love to misrepresent everything he says

 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,398
Windu said:
Well none of them have a significant mobile presence because they can't. If iOS was open, I think they'd put their foot in the door.
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Nothing in iOS is preventing any of these companies from having a mobile presence right now. Android is also currently open already. Sony have some mobile games, EA do too. It's just that they are focusing on their own closed platforms because that's how they make money. Remember that such a ruling would apply to their platforms as well.
 
Oregano

Oregano

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Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Armaros said:
Why would any of them have any presence of mobile? just because they are game companies?

Then whats stopping them from also being on PC? There is no gatekeeper keeping them there, and yet only one of the three has any presence on PC. Your thesis falls apart from basic common sense and is just plain wishful thinking.
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I'm sure Sony, MS and Nintendo would rather keep their 30% cut on their own platforms than forgo it on iOS...
 
julian

julian

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Oct 27, 2017
16,877
spam musubi said:
None of those have a significant mobile presence other than Nintendo. Epic have the benefit of unreal engine providing an easy path for any game to be migrated to iOS. They are uniquely positioned. Also I doubt that any of those would follow a loss leader strategy like epic do with EGS on PC
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This is about operating a store. If Sony , Microsoft or Nintendo had their own store on iPhones they could sell products on phones which also played on their devices. They aren't currently allowed to do anything like that. It's not about what games they make or how well they do.
 
Kaeden

Kaeden

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Oct 25, 2017
7,931
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Talus said:
Was the special deal Tim asked for was to be able to sell direct to consumers through their app?

Some of you sure love to misrepresent everything he says

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I would think asking Apple to do something unique and out of the norm for them to be considered a special deal. So yeah. A pretty big one too.
 
Dierce

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
There are no good sides here.

Also I personally find it very scary how Epic Games, a company that is already worth billions, has absolutely no power against a company worth trillions which happens to be Apple. As consumers what kind of power do we have individually? It really puts this corporate greed based system into perspective.
 
Epcott

Epcott

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Oct 25, 2017
2,279
US, East Coast
Lol...
Sweeny sent THREE emails asking for special arrangements... Apple says "no"...

Epic does it anyways the same day and has a CGI #freefortnite campaign conveniently ready to go.

This company, whew

Edit: My mistake, Sweeny sent the email June 30th... the #freefortnite youtube video went up August 13th, same day it was taken down from iOS App Store. That's a 2 week production for the campaign. Impressive!
 
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Deleted member 16657

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10,198
Its wildly funny to me that epic's side has old apple ad spoofs and #freefortnite hats while apple's side has "you are a fraud here are the receipts"
 
Falore

Falore

Banned
Feb 15, 2019
745
TitanicFall said:
- Admits Epic agreed to Apple's TOS
- Asked for an exception to the policy
- Request was denied
- Instead of taking Apple to court to have policy changed, proceeded to break TOS anyway
- Breaking rules didn't work out for them, so they result to filing a lawsuit that was prepared well in advance of any of this
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If Epic Games was a person they'd be Donald Trump.
 
Haint

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
SilkySm00th said:
I understand apple is scummy as fuck but I just don't understand how EPIC has any legs to stand on here? Like.. if you don't wanna pay that 30 you go somewhere else or open your own store and OOPS that's what EPIC already did? Like if enough people decide that Apple sucks now and stop using their store they will change but until then - how you gonna strong arm a company to open up, support, trouble shoot, handle fees and server hosting and all that shit for a COMPETING app store on their devices which are notoriously locked down as part of their entire design?

So weird to me. Like if you were renting space to host laser tag events and then just sent an email to the landlord of that space like "I'm not gonna pay you that money anymore. In fact i'm gonna make people pay me to use the space and play our game but you have to keep the electricity on and the water and all that running or you're the bad guy"

I'm sure i sound dumb as hell right now to anyone with a half assed understanding of how this stuff works but from the outside in as a layman this seems like EPIC trying to ice skate uphill
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It's a combination of whether or not the iOS store constitues a monopoly, coupled with alleged unfair treatment demonstrated by Apple allowing select apps (seemingly arbitrarily from a legal perspective) to process payments that bypass Apple's 30% cut (e.g. Lyft, Uber, Doordash, Best Buy, Food Chains, Etc...). There are legitimate legal grievances and concerns buried under all the bluster and blind hate for both Epic and Apple.
 
PopcornMegaphone

PopcornMegaphone

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Oct 25, 2017
4,185
Talus said:
Was the special deal Tim asked for was to be able to sell direct to consumers through their app?

Some of you sure love to misrepresent everything he says

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Hope isn't a demand. It's clear they wanted a special deal and didn't get it so they setup a BS PR campaign to weaponize their fans for more corporate profits.
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,129
Komo said:
That's a beautiful quote my god.
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Yeah, that whole paragraph pretty much makes it nearly impossible for the judge to imposse Fortnite to be put back onto the AppStore against Apple wishes. Apple clearly states that they are more than happy to put Fortnite back if they do not violate the TOS and wouldn't act against Epic for the lawsuit.
 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,398
Dierce said:
There are no good sides here.

Also I personally find it very scary how Epic Games, a company that is already worth billions, has absolutely no power against a company worth trillions which happens to be Apple. As consumers what kind of power do we have individually? It really puts this corporate greed based system into perspective.
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They absolutely do have the power to file a lawsuit... they indeed do not have the power to violate the TOS and then continue to be on the platform. Those two things are entirely independent
 
Dr. Feel Good

Dr. Feel Good

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Oct 25, 2017
3,996
Honestly I'm kind of impressed that Tim is swinging his weight around here. That email in itself is pretty damn lofty and direct, at literally the entire top Apple team.
 
Komo

Komo

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Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,112
eonden said:
Yeah, that whole paragraph pretty much makes it nearly impossible for the judge to imposse Fortnite to be put back onto the AppStore against Apple wishes. Apple clearly states that they are more than happy to put Fortnite back if they do not violate the TOS and wouldn't act against Epic for the lawsuit.
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Everyone I know thought Epic would have gotten something. imo never had a chance.
 
EccoCid

EccoCid

Member
Mar 7, 2018
719
London
Dierce said:
There are no good sides here.

Also I personally find it very scary how Epic Games, a company that is already worth billions, has absolutely no power against a company worth trillions which happens to be Apple. As consumers what kind of power do we have individually? It really puts this corporate greed based system into perspective.
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We have the biggest power but it only activates when we act collectively which means it will be never used lol. Aka mass boycott.
 
finalflame

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
SteveWinwood said:
The only people I've ever met who've had issues with Android are people who have never used it and then talk about how iOS is the best.

As they get "new" features people have already been enjoying for years on Android.
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I work with a testing lab that has literally hundreds of Android devices, from the lowest of the low end, to all the flagships and high-end devices. I daily drive a Pixel 4 and Note 10 as work devices.

I fucking hate Android.

Anyway, of course Epic is lying through their teeth. I really can't wait to see how this all turns out.
 
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