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benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
There is no reason for such drastic differences in hit boxes. There is a reason Wraith, Bangalore and Lifeline get chosen all the time. They should lower their hp to compensensate at the very least.
There are considerably more aspects to hitboxes than just the contours of all a player's hitboxes in aggregate—head box size/shape, limb box size/shape, individual hitbox placement during animations, transform during animations, placement relative to default weapon reset position on other characters, placement relative to recoil patterns on weapons, yadda yadda. And those are just factors that are game-agnostic—there are almost certainly very, very particular considerations contingent on this game's specific damage modeling

I think it's totally possible that e.g. Wraith's hitbox gives her a huge advantage and that Gibraltar's gives him a huge disadvantage. But the information that is currently publicly available is not detailed enough that that would be self-evident—even if that video's findings are correct, there are way more factors at play than just "this is the rough shape of all possible hit zones on a character", to say nothing that there are already clear instances in the game when blood/sparks splatter doesn't correspond to damage done.

I think it's a totally reasonable consideration for players to be thinking about in choosing characters or thinking about how the game can change, but audiences who are not familiar with the specifics of the game's damage modeling or implementation combat systems should temper their criticisms and complaints. If Wraith, Bangalore, and Lifeline get chosen all the time, that says more about players' perceptions of their relative strengths than it does of any actual variance in winrate or of specifically the role that specifically their hitboxes play in that winrate.
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,729
There are considerably more aspects to hitboxes than just the contours of all a player's hitboxes in aggregate—head box size/shape, limb box size/shape, individual hitbox placement during animations, transform during animations, placement relative to default weapon reset position on other characters, placement relative to recoil patterns on weapons, yadda yadda. And those are just factors that are game-agnostic—there are almost certainly very, very particular considerations contingent on this game's specific damage modeling

I think it's totally possible that e.g. Wraith's hitbox gives her a huge advantage and that Gibraltar's gives him a huge disadvantage. But the information that is currently publicly available is not detailed enough that that would be self-evident—even if that video's findings are correct, there are way more factors at play than just "this is the rough shape of all possible hit zones on a character", to say nothing that there are already clear instances in the game when blood/sparks splatter doesn't correspond to damage done.

I think it's a totally reasonable consideration for players to be thinking about in choosing characters or thinking about how the game can change, but audiences who are not familiar with the specifics of the game's damage modeling or implementation combat systems should temper their criticisms and complaints. If Wraith, Bangalore, and Lifeline get chosen all the time, that says more about players' perceptions of their relative strengths than it does of any actual variance in winrate or of specifically the role that specifically their hitboxes play in that winrate.

I agree man. Ever since that "testing" video came out (which is not particularly conclusive) people have been coming in talking about hit boxes and how they notice it more on X character or whatever. I'm going to chalk those up to placebo effect. I don't think there's nearly enough info on display to be making these kinds of balance claims.
 

nank

Banned
Feb 5, 2019
21
God put me on this earth to try to remind people that unless they actually helped make the game, they really don't know how hitboxes vary between characters, and that everyone should slow down on making outlandish statements about what the game's balance Needs

it is basically impossible to overstate the effect that a popular opinion based on piecemeal game data (e.g. the rough contours of characters' hitboxes for the purpose of hit registry alone) has on people's impressions of and feelings about their own gameplay

take it easy!
The effect is pretty night and day when you're shooting at an ADADing Wraith or an ADADing Gibraltar.

At risk of sounding elitist, your "average" person in an online PvP game will take months to figure out the meta. Meanwhile, someone who has played shooters at a high level will have found it out within a couple days.

Hey, try playing Wraith/Bangalore/Lifeline compared to Gibraltar/Caustic. You'll quickly realize how different your survival time in a firefight is between those characters.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
There is no reason for such drastic differences in hit boxes. There is a reason Wraith, Bangalore and Lifeline get chosen all the time. They should lower their hp to compensensate at the very least.

They were chosen a bunch *well* before any research into hitboxes was done and it has everything to do with their kits. Bangalore being the standard soldier type with increased run speed under fire and an offensive carpet bombing ult. Wraith because her Q makes her speed up, near invisible and completely invulnerable, and Lifeline because she's got a heal and her ult is free loot.

The vast majority of the playerbase across three platforms are not jumping on Reddit or Youtube to check hitbox sizes.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
Getting some crazy hitching on pc. I have a 1070 and I'm only playing in 1080p. Not sure what that's about
It stopped for a few games after latest drivers, but now it's back. Just lost a game because it hitched then froze up when I had the drop on the last member of a squad and my two mates fluffed it.

This is getting too much. :(
 

Deleted member 8118

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,639
I agree man. Ever since that "testing" video came out (which is not particularly conclusive) people have been coming in talking about hit boxes and how they notice it more on X character or whatever. I'm going to chalk those up to placebo effect. I don't think there's nearly enough info on display to be making these kinds of balance claims.
No, people aren't imagining this.

I do agree that there is a lot more to the hit-boxes than we currently see. One of those things is the horrific net-code that Respawn managed to toss together for this game. The last time I've experienced something this bad was with Gears of War in 2006-7, and that game wasn't even supposed to have a multiplayer from the start.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,076
If I was to judge this game by this thread I'd think it's the most miserable game in the world to play.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
Somewhere
Everyone complaining about hitboxes...

Play Wraith or Lifeline, then play Gibraltar. You'll do the same both ways. If you're good, you're good, hitboxes aren't going to win the game for you.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
The worst thing about every game having DOTA style characters now is it's given everyone something else to complain about.

No, people aren't imagining this.

I do agree that there is a lot more to the hit-boxes than we currently see. One of those things is the horrific net-code that Respawn managed to toss together for this game. The last time I've experienced something this bad was with Gears of War in 2006-7, and that game wasn't even supposed to have a multiplayer from the start.
Please, be more specific about why you think the net-code is horrific.
 

nank

Banned
Feb 5, 2019
21
I agree about the gas but his ult needs to do more damage. Giving it the same damage output as the traps just makes it too weak. Most caustic players I see just use it to cover a rez, which can actually end up being a pain cause it hinders his squadmates too. Also I still think his traps should go up faster. Engagements in this game just happen too quickly and sporadically to reliably set them up ahead of time.

I disagree about the health changes. Jackfrags in his latest video said it better but it would imbalance the game too much.
His gas is already extremely hard to avoid, I feel it does enough damage. Again, his weakest point is his survivability, not his gas or ult.

I'm definitely biased but I'm not a fan of ults in any game. Bloodhound, Bangalore, and Gibraltar just have ults that are too close to "Press Z to do damage/win". The weaker their ults, the better and more "skill-based" the game. Best not to have any ults in a PvP shooter, but I guess they have to dumb down the skill ceiling somehow.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,432
Xbox servers have been horrible for me tonight. Had a disconnect in the final circle right in the middle of a fight with the final team.... We lost the game :(
 

DWarriorSN

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,136
PA
His gas is already extremely hard to avoid, I feel it does enough damage. Again, his weakest point is his survivability, not his gas or ult.

I'm definitely biased but I'm not a fan of ults in any game. Bloodhound, Bangalore, and Gibraltar just have ults that are too close to "Press Z to do damage/win". The weaker their ults, the better and more "skill-based" the game. Best not to have any ults in a PvP shooter, but I guess they have to dumb down the skill ceiling somehow.
Lol what?

The game has ults because it's a hero shooter, not because of some imaginary dumbing down.

And NO ult is press Z to win, some are very good provided you pop em in the right situation but even then its balanced by the fact that the enemy can have the same tools.

Characters need changes but life pool isnt it at all.

Imo QoL buffs for Gib and Caustic are whats needed.

Faster deployable placement, clearer visibilty on gibs shield, etc.

And mirage needs a new or improved passive and the ability to cancel his ult whenever he wants.

Then we can talk about nerfs after everybody is been brought up to an enjoyable state.
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
Managed to reel off 8 or so wins in like 15 games earlier. Hottest streak I've hit by far.

In one game, both teammates were killed and respawned twice. The last two enemy teams got caught fighting each other and our team was able to re-gear just enough to pull out in the win in the last circle.

This game hooked me far more than I thought it could after feeling completely and totally burned out on the BR genre. Normally I'd buy something since I don't mind supporting good games, but goddamn the monetization in this is grimy as hell.
 

Swig

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,496
What do you guys use to record your gaming? I was using this thing called plays.tv, but it kept crashing Rainbow 6, so I stopped using it. It was nice, it would auto detect game launches and record. I'd love something similar that doesn't crash.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
The effect is pretty night and day when you're shooting at an ADADing Wraith or an ADADing Gibraltar.

At risk of sounding elitist, your "average" person in an online PvP game will take months to figure out the meta. Meanwhile, someone who has played shooters at a high level will have found it out within a couple days.

Hey, try playing Wraith/Bangalore/Lifeline compared to Gibraltar/Caustic. You'll quickly realize how different your survival time in a firefight is between those characters.
I've played a lot of basically everyone but Gibraltar and Pathfinder, of whom I've only played a little bit. I agree that there are differences in survivability between characters; I do not believe that this difference in survivability can whatsoever be ascribed to hitboxes' rough contours alone, or that other players are capable of really understanding the differences between characters through time played and gut feel alone. Stuff as slight-seeming as footstep sound, camera height, animation transitions/blending, or weapon volume has such an unbelievably huge impact on how people perceive characters (and, as a result, how they play those characters).

Again, I'm not saying every character is the same or anything, I think it's totally plausible that Gibraltar's hitboxes are straight-up worse than Wraith's, but I think people are, generally, very bad at removing the "cosmetic" in their perception of the "mechanical." Look at how many people swore up and down that Gibraltar was slower than Wraith. For me, personally, I think playing Gibraltar is unfun in large part because his slow-feeling, lumbering walk is so starkly contrasted to other characters' fun, fast zippiness. That absolutely impacts how I play, which in turn impacts how I perceive Gibraltar.
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,503
Me and my squad have still been putting in an hour or two every day, hit level 40 today. We're getting about 1-2 wins every day and I'm still having a hoot. Getting real thirsty to see what the battlepasses look like.
 

Duraigo

Member
Nov 28, 2017
264
After a few matches with it, I'm now a member of the church of the R-99. That thing is a damn beast. Also been getting more time with the Hemlok.
 

Deleted member 1190

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,663
I'm currently spectating a blatant aimbotter on pc. Why can't I report this shit? I legitimately makes me not even want to play the game anymore.

And I mean BLATANT. Cross hairs locking on to people before he even sees them and stays there until he runs them into view and destroys them. 8 people spectating him at the moment too.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
I've been playing Apex since launch on Xbox One X with no issues till today.
My left stick now drifts up randomly in Apex only. No other games exhibit this behavior.

It's really annoying. It makes it hard to highlight anything in game with the cursor and also randomly sends me running forward...like off a cliff. Already got me killed as my squad was in the top 2 in a match.

Why did this start all of a sudden.

Full restart seemingly does nothing.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,605
What do you guys use to record your gaming? I was using this thing called plays.tv, but it kept crashing Rainbow 6, so I stopped using it. It was nice, it would auto detect game launches and record. I'd love something similar that doesn't crash.
Shadowplay with the instant replay set to 1m30s and 90Mbps for 1GB clips, then I cut them with Vegas Movie Studio.

A lot of the time I'll forget to even press the instant replay button when I'm focused on the game, so I'm hoping Nvidia adds Highlights support soon, like they have for Fortnite and others. I don't have the hard drive space to record entire games, and I would probably forget what I even wanted to clip out of it anyways.
 
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Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
I've been playing Apex since launch on Xbox One X with no issues till today.
My left stick now drifts up randomly in Apex only. No other games exhibit this behavior.

It's really annoying. It makes it hard to highlight anything in game with the cursor and also randomly sends me running forward...like off a cliff. Already got me killed as my squad was in the top 2 in a match.

Why did this start all of a sudden.

Full restart seemingly does nothing.

I've had this happen to me on PS4 the last day or so actually. My right stick will jump up in small increments for a little while then stop. I also had an entire fight in slow motion earlier. There might be some stuff very wrong with the Apex servers.
 

nank

Banned
Feb 5, 2019
21
Lol what?

The game has ults because it's a hero shooter, not because of some imaginary dumbing down.

And NO ult is press Z to win, some are very good provided you pop em in the right situation but even then its balanced by the fact that the enemy can have the same tools.

Characters need changes but life pool isnt it at all.

Imo QoL buffs for Gib and Caustic are whats needed.

Faster deployable placement, clearer visibilty on gibs shield, etc.

And mirage needs a new or improved passive and the ability to cancel his ult whenever he wants.

Then we can talk about nerfs after everybody is been brought up to an enjoyable state.

I don't think we can disagree more. When caught out, Gibraltar (and other fatties) are way easier to shoot than the Lifeline/Wraith/Bangalore combo.
In an ADAD Peacekeaper/Wingman fight, Gibraltar/Pathfinder/Caustic just melt, period. Gibraltar's hitbox is larger than the spread of the Peacekeeper, but that's not true with Wraith.

Ults are definitely damaging, I've wiped full 3-man squads before with Gibraltar's barrage because there's very little warning and they either die from the explosives or get caught out running in the open.

I think it's clear we play the game completely differently, and that's the cause of the difference in our opinions on balancing. Respawn is already aware of the hitbox disparities, so we'll just have to wait and see what their balancing decisions are on the matter.

I've played a lot of basically everyone but Gibraltar and Pathfinder, of whom I've only played a little bit. I agree that there are differences in survivability between characters; I do not believe that this difference in survivability can whatsoever be ascribed to hitboxes' rough contours alone, or that other players are capable of really understanding the differences between characters through time played and gut feel alone. Stuff as slight-seeming as footstep sound, camera height, animation transitions/blending, or weapon volume has such an unbelievably huge impact on how people perceive characters (and, as a result, how they play those characters).

Again, I'm not saying every character is the same or anything, I think it's totally plausible that Gibraltar's hitboxes are straight-up worse than Wraith's, but I think people are, generally, very bad at removing the "cosmetic" in their perception of the "mechanical." Look at how many people swore up and down that Gibraltar was slower than Wraith. For me, personally, I think playing Gibraltar is unfun in large part because his slow-feeling, lumbering walk is so starkly contrasted to other characters' fun, fast zippiness. That absolutely impacts how I play, which in turn impacts how I perceive Gibraltar.

Gibraltar has a massively fat hitbox. Just get into a gunfight with one and you'll immediately notice how easy they are to track and shred. Wraith doesn't have this problem.
I mean, it's not really opinion - just look at the champion squad each game.
 

Detective

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,853
I've been playing Apex since launch on Xbox One X with no issues till today.
My left stick now drifts up randomly in Apex only. No other games exhibit this behavior.

It's really annoying. It makes it hard to highlight anything in game with the cursor and also randomly sends me running forward...like off a cliff. Already got me killed as my squad was in the top 2 in a match.

Why did this start all of a sudden.

Full restart seemingly does nothing.

Are you using the Elite settings on response curve?
 

Mr Spasiba

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,779
I thought it was painful having to wait five levels for a box only to get blues and whites knowing it I would have to wait another five levels for a chance to get more, but now I know true suffering is getting a box of blues and whites that also puts me only 40 away from getting 1200 crafting materials and now I'm going to have to wait another five levels for a chance to get more.

I miss when BR games gave you stuff for wins. Even if it was a special box that only gave one drop I'd appreciate it.
 
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benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
man, if you haven't seen every combination of legends in the champion screen, you gotta get some hours in
 

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
This game is really fun to watch. Have they put out a roadmap yet?
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,025
I finally started playing this game and I'm actually somewhat competent . . . well, assuming I have 5+ minutes to get my bearings and a long-barreled gun.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
It's getting real annoying how many people instantly bail when you're not near them as they die.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
2 matches in a row where I go down first and both my teammates completely ignore me, not even trying to revive or get my banner.

Some people really don't get this is a team game.
 

Bunta

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,270
Just won a game with randoms where our teammate died instantly and left the game. The two of us each got 5 kills and about 1,000 damage.
 

DarkChronic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,037
Ahhhhh finally got the decked out trophy at level 40. That was the last one, just need to hit level 50 and that's all of 'em!

What a great game. The lower player count really does help make you think you're better. My friends and I are getting a 1-3 wins a play session and I think we got 3 wins total across 3 months of Blackout, lol.
 

The Living Tribunal

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,201
Just got a 2-man win. This Lifeline got downed seconds after landing and left immediately, but the other random was pretty good and we managed to get the win with 4 kills each, feels good man.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,605
Oh my God I'm fucking shaking

Deathinator was a little kid and it was his first win

357Q2W8.png
 

Agent 47

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
1,840
Got my win with each character last night, just need to get to 50 for the platinum.

Every Ult in this game is contextual, some situations they're great, sometimes they're not. I don't agree that any one is OP compared to others, they all have opportunities to shine.
 
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