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Apex Legends developers spark outrage after calling gamers “dicks”, “ass-hats”and “freeloaders”
- Thread starter lush
- Start date
I guess that's what I'm getting at. Devs are increasingly asked to take on frontline PR roles, especially for service games. I don't know in this particular case if the devs are supposed to be responding to people on the subreddit or not, though.
I think it's easy to say that the criticism isn't being aimed at specific people, but at specific elements of the games. And that's true for the most part. But I can tell you as someone who doesn't even work on games but has worked on internet stuff with a large audience before, that on some level it almost doesn't matter. People can't help but identify with their own work, especially in creative industries like video games. It can get very hard to distinguish yourself from the work, and from criticism of the final product from criticism of your own work. This can be doubly problematic in cases where, let's say, you fought against a particular decision, and then got criticized for that decision. Sometimes that feels like validation, that your professional opinion turned out to be right. But sometimes it just feels frustrating, like an own-goal you saw coming and could've avoided, and now feel like you're taking heat for. I realized a while ago that the specific target doesn't even matter sometimes; all you hear is the vitriol and the aggression.
For me, I see a developer being sarcastic about assholes in the gaming community and I think, "that's someone lashing out because they've taken a lot of shit." I've been there before, so I'm sympathetic. I don't think it's entirely a conscious act, sometimes. I don't think that developer woke up that morning and thought, "I'm going to finally tell those gamers off like they deserve!" You're right in that it's not necessarily professional or proper. But I'm happy to give these people the benefit of the doubt because torrents of internet criticism are not a thing most people are prepared for, and some people are going to react badly.
It should go without saying but that doesn't take anything away from people arguing in good faith against Apex Legends' monetization techniques. I think there is absolutely room to keep talking about that and even boycotting the game if you think there's no recourse and that EA isn't listening.
Whoa now. We've diverged here slightly and are beginning to wander into what-if territory. I'm arguing against purely cosmetic loot boxes such as in your Fortnites and Apexes. COD boxes that incorporate game-changing items are pure trash and actually deserves harsher criticism than they may already be receiving. I understand where you're trying to go with it but we can only really address Apex's system as it is currently. Purely cosmetic, which is functionally harmless to the game itself and to those that choose not to engage in monetization schemes.
Is it exploitative? Sure. A lot of things in life are. However, COD's exploitation is far more egregious than Respawn's. I also think that responsibility takes a role in here somewhere. Either by the adult end user or the adult responsible for the end user.
Not all pushback is toxic, and not in this situation either. It is normal to have a bad reaction to a $200 cosmetic event.
Remember everything EA has done and continues to do that is predatory by design.
Damn, it's almost like...the fact that they're psychologists isn't really what the problem is, and is arbitrarily made into a pharmakon in an attempt to legitimize a basically-unrelated concern by playing into an exaggerated and ignorant idea of what psychologists are.
thank god it isn't like that, and it is indeed the fact that they're hiring psychologists that's the problem
You can still disagree with how Respawn has handled the monetisation of Apex's limited time events, while agreeing with someone who works for them that the way the game's community has behaved is toxic as fuck.
Why should developers interact directly with the fans, when the fans are going to dogpile anyone associated with the devs with abusive tirades?
You can post on a gaming forum while not having your entire identity centered around the fact that you buy video games.
Probably not the best avenue to let some steam off. People act like assholes to devs, devs act like assholes back, everyone has mud on their face and looks bad and has a bad time.
It's a shame most discourse on the internet has boiled down to this. I don't think its unique to the gaming industry anymore.
It's a shame most discourse on the internet has boiled down to this. I don't think its unique to the gaming industry anymore.
Fine for the majority of them but having the super rare one just be "buy everything else and then you can buy it", and that amounting to £130, is way past that line imo.
Apex generally had a good reception from the community up until this point. That post is bang on the money. If you want to poke and prod people and openly talk about how they are dollar figures to their face, that's fine. You just shouldn't expect it to go over well with everyone, or for the benefit of the doubt to be there in the future. It's not a good idea or a good look.
Unforuntantely, engaging on that level only serves to make things even worse. I'm already seeing those comments the dev made being used to further stir the pot around the internet. That's not even talking about people actually defending the orginial shitty practice that started this whole event in order to not be roped in with the toxic crowd.
The "OMG thank you so much for the Platinum" at the end killed me there for some reason.
I was one of the complainers about the Iron Crown event, but the lengths I saw some people go, nah, Respawn have earned the right to call these cunts out.
Fuck gamers.
Fuck gamers.
lmao, jesus
any time a reddit post is using the first-person plural, you know you're in for a gamer manifesto
On one hand, claiming "It's been developed by psychologists!" is a not-entirely-accurate oversimplification of the literal decades of refinement of the F2P model that's built upon the exploitation of well-established psychological ticks - most of which have been lifted straight out of studies on gambling addiction.
On the other hand, this comes off as a dismissive, defensive shitpost.
I remember working on F2P modeled games years ago and our public response to criticism of the monetization practices of our products was basically "We don't want to do this, but the publisher makes this the only viable way to fund the game and keep the studio open." And now I'm getting a completely different tone from active devs - which is honestly pretty weird. It way more "Fuck you, pay me". Then again, I haven't had to deal with the shit-show that is dealing directly with players in a few years.
No one looks good in this exchange. Players need to be respectful to devs, but there's also nothin respectful about devs treating their player base like idiot cash cows. Which, to be clear, a $170 limited time event absolutely does say that's how Respawn views Apex players.
F2P games seem to naturally lead to more antagonistic relationships between devs and players for obvious reasons.
F2P games seem to naturally lead to more antagonistic relationships between devs and players for obvious reasons.
Are you seriously saying these freemium models are not based on addiction psychology? Really? Even the freaking way lootboxes open is made as flashy as machines in Casinos to entice people. I really don't care who you work for, but don't peddle nonsense please.
I think the problem with that thread is that it reads like a threat with no teeth to it. I understand the sentiment, but if you're still giving the game traffic and potential MTX sales then what have you really accomplished?
True but they are participating in gaming related threads. And right now even if you play Candy Crush for five minutes a day you are considered a gamer.
Eh...I guess this is the only case in my recent memory where I would accept a "both sides" argument.
Gamers being assholes, companies being greedy fucks...
Gamers being assholes, companies being greedy fucks...
As always, the truth lies in the middle. A lot of gamers are cheap asshats. But the monetization aspect in a lot of games is just shitty.
Additionally, I feel like there are just extreme positions left when discussing stuff. Difficult to have normal discussions.
Additionally, I feel like there are just extreme positions left when discussing stuff. Difficult to have normal discussions.
Feel free to look through my post history as I've explained this to exhaustion.
The 'outrage' has already had Respawn commit to more reasonable events in the future. There is always a place for constructive criticism and protest.
Value for money is important to me, if I feel like I'm getting ripped off I won't pay it, so in my case I wouldn't pay $18 but I may well pay $10. And it's also likely I'd buy multiple $10 skins, but again not a single $18 one. But then again they're not aiming their sights on someone like me who will think before they buy, they're going after the kids and their parents CC, or people who can afford to overpay for skins.
afaik he's just saying the notion that devs/pubs hire psychologists to maximize their return and find specific ways to get ppl addicted isn't true. I don't think anyone in this thread disagrees that there are tons of sinister f2p models that have kind of become the de facto way to do business in large multiplayer games now.
my issue with this thread is that it sounds totally insane
This "Freeloader" already put $30 into the game but hasn't bought a skin, and has none of the new event cosmetics because even the "free" tier is grindy as all get out. I've gotten quite a bit of fun out of the game, but the whaling isn't giving me a ton of reasons to keep playing. Also, Battle Pass as a monetization method is pretty devious - I put in money up front, but only if I play 100s of hours can I actually get what I "paid for" which turns playing into an obligation, not fun.
And this is ignoring the fact that when 2/3 daily challenges are to perform an execution and they still haven't fixed the bug where the enemy leaving mid-animation results in no credit for you is super frustrating.
And this is ignoring the fact that when 2/3 daily challenges are to perform an execution and they still haven't fixed the bug where the enemy leaving mid-animation results in no credit for you is super frustrating.
The crux is that people just don't want the games to exist period under this model. If that means something like Apex Legend's doesn't exist than they are fine with that. Personally, I am fine with games not existing for reasons of ethics or whatever the case is but until lootboxes are made illegal or classified under gambling it's a valid model.
It makes me wonder if people know what most people who study psychology end up going into. The most basic social psych 101 course will explain the things people here are framing as super deep super manipulative practices plainly. All marketing employees these techniques. It's not that nefarious or secretly hidden.
Here's the proof that the devs are right, even if it wasn't the best move PR wise. Imagine the mentality that someone that writes this has.
Pretty hard to side with the devs here. Sure gamers have an entitlement issue but the whole reason their subreddit exploded was because of their incredibly high priced skins for the event and the system it uses. They basically outright said they're full on EA whale hunting season too.
Price apparently doesn't move the needle much and everyone else are feeeloaders, so if you aren't happy with their record price skins that's your fault for not being vulnerable enough to the tactics, not theirs for setting the price that caused the uproar.
Price apparently doesn't move the needle much and everyone else are feeeloaders, so if you aren't happy with their record price skins that's your fault for not being vulnerable enough to the tactics, not theirs for setting the price that caused the uproar.
I think people here just kneejerk defend devs whenever they can, drawing from previous experiences.
This is predatory microtransactions looking for easily manipulated children and/or impulsive people, free game or not that's what they're doing.
And thinking the goods being cosmetic and not affecting gameplay has no impact on the rest of the game sounds like baby's first f2p economy.
Incredible. Look, the microtransactions seem shitty but I'm convinced these people never walked outside in their lives.
Yeah, you're right. I guess it just seemed like more bark than bite. Though, sometimes that's all you need.
I think that is basically totally unrelated to self-identifying as a 'gamer'
I mean that's just the industry as a whole at the moment. Capitalism works this way. I'm not saying respawn are virtuous or anything, but I still favour them over people shitting over them constantly whilst they try to make a good game. Also people thinking that respawn implemented the prices all themselves with no persuasion from EA are just a little bit naive.
While the gaming community can be toxic and maybe deserves to be knocked a peg or two, we are still the consumer in this conversation. There are, and will continue to be, other great games vying for our attention and dollars. The least developers can do is show professionalism and pretend to hear our concerns about cost. The most egregious comment is the accusation of "freeloading" followed by the disgustingly disingenuous '(and we love that!)'... It's a free to play game, and that wasn't our call. I'd honestly rather pay $60 for the game like I did for Overwatch, and get an actual shot at all the skins. They can't really berate just the asshats, unfortunately, they attack us all when they attack us - and it's just not a good look.
I love Apex. I don't consider myself a toxic asshat gamer. I'm relatively frugal, yes, but I've spent some money on Apex Legends. This 'iron crown loot boxes' + 'store cost' + 'devs showing their asses' thing has definitely affected how I view the game as a whole.
I love Apex. I don't consider myself a toxic asshat gamer. I'm relatively frugal, yes, but I've spent some money on Apex Legends. This 'iron crown loot boxes' + 'store cost' + 'devs showing their asses' thing has definitely affected how I view the game as a whole.
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