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Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
59,101
Terana
And she's completely right that the Democrats are a party stuck in 2005 when it's 2020/2021. They're ceding ground to all the disinformation and bullshit because they're not in any position to counter any of it. they're woeful. That trump did a better job of engaging online is pathetic.

Think of where they'd be without the young progressive left doing all this completely unsupported and being fought each step of the way by their own party???

The Democratic leadership needs a rework in the worst way. Because it's the 21st century now. It's not 1970
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
what a wonderfully intelligent person. my goodness. she just gets it, completely. way smarter, realistic and grounded than her critics believe. future president, if she wants it.

XbV3PbX.png


she's perfectly right

I have hope that Biden team is going to be diverse. In his acceptance speech after calling out multiple identities said his cabinet would reflect that as well.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Isn't this just going in circles? I have no problem with saying POC saved America but since the election is State ran and each State matters is arguing over which group put Biden over the edge productive or even relevant when taking away either group likely costs him the election?
I'm merely pointing out that those who hold the reins of power in the Democratic Party are themselves white supremacists and continue to prop up the institution for their own gain. As long as they do so, this country will persist being largely white supremacist and only white supremacist policies will appeal to them. (Which is why 70,000,000+ voted for Trump.)

This is, of course, no different than it has always been. But the longer the Democratic Party continues to abet the white supremacist status quo, while more and more Americans are demanding progressive policy and intersectional values (49% of Gen Z are POC), the closer they flirt with the abyss. POC snatched them and the country from the very precipice this election. They're not going to keep doing that if they're forever shit on by the party which would've vanished into irrelevance long ago without their persevering support.
 

Daverytimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,108
And she's completely right that the Democrats are a party stuck in 2005 when it's 2020/2021. They're ceding ground to all the disinformation and bullshit because they're not in any position to counter any of it. they're woeful. That trump did a better job of engaging online is pathetic.

Think of where they'd be without the young progressive left doing all this completely unsupported and being fought each step of the way by their own party???

The Democratic leadership needs a rework in the worst way. Because it's the 21st century now. It's not 1970

I think some in reddit said it best when they said that "Democrats go for the compromise and Republicans go for the kill".
It is simply impossible for us to progress in this country if at every opportunity the party goes for the compromise. There is no conviction in the democratic party.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,699
You would think that. Instead, people think the wounds left by these terrorists and their sympathizers were equally inflicted by leftists too, and thus we need to come together at the center and just hug it out.

Fuck that. Trumpers need to be shamed, at the very least, as fucking supporters of fascism and saboteurs of our democracy.
I've been saying it for months, we're about to head into the reconstruction era again where traitors and losers are forgiven and rewarded.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
59,101
Terana
I think some in reddit said it best when they said that "Democrats go for the compromise and Republicans go for the kill".
It is simply impossible for us to progress in this country if at every opportunity the party goes for the compromise. There is no conviction in the democratic party.
definitely and it's frustrating as hell. how can you even hope to help rural america when they don't even wanna help themselves.

it's two americas. one that wants to be a white ethnostate and another group of people that just wanna live a comfortable and joyful life.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,265
We can't forget about Ed Markey a co-sponsor to M4A was put up against Joe Kennedy who was endorsed by Nancy Pelosi
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
She's so popular she could indefinitely win her seat without much work so I am surprised she may walk away. It's sad because on the outside everyone sees her as the future of the party but on the inside she probably feels like there is a party going on and she is locked outside.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,000
She's so popular she could indefinitely win her seat without much work so I am surprised she may walk away. It's sad because on the outside everyone sees her as the future of the party but on the inside she probably feels like there is a party going on and she is locked outside.
When you're demonized not just by your enemies but your so called allied, who can blame her.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
I can only hope that all the demoralizing from *checks notes* the Speaker of the House, the Democratic Senate Minority Leader and their mouthpieces doesn't mean much if every general and midterm just results in growing numbers of elected progressives.

And we can only hope that AOC may feel a bit more energized with new allies and friends like Jamaal Bowman, Mondaire Jones, Cori Bush, Marie Newman, and some like Ritchie Torres whose progressive cred is called into question but will be a stronger ally to the causes that the DSA-supported candidates would champion than incumbent Democrats seem willing to be.

EDIT: Lastly, maybe she'd have a bit more energy if she didn't have to be the entire media representation for an entire movement, because the media typically isn't interested in talking to the others because of how they don't meet certain bullshit metrics for attention. I'd be totally cool if she tagged in one of the others every now and then, but my opinion of who the media should zoom in on doesn't mean much.
 
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Oct 29, 2017
6,318
The force that had every democrat drop out and endorse Biden.

Many of his supports laughed at the MSNBC infographic showing that the combined moderate vote was ahead of Bernie in the primaries. Indeed, I was one of them. It should've scared us instead.

At a peak of under 30% support nationally, Bernie never had enough support to overcome a unified push from the moderate wing.

I still believe a broad, leftward push is the only way to keep the party relevant long term. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
What force is that, primary voters? Good grief, lol. I'd imagine the bigger reason is that she doesn't want the job in the first place and who could blame her?

Yeah I don't know why everyone is dreaming of an AOC Presidency?

Does she, herself, wants to run?

Because otherwise, it's coming off as a non-romantic version of not knowing your crush as a person.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,841


AOC is such an asset to the party. It's frustrating that so many dem loyalists don't see that.
 

noodlesoup

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,381
Chicago, IL
Blue check liberals on Twitter trying to say that Joe Biden performing better than AOC and Omar in their own districts as a means of them being "irrelevant" is too funny.

Oh wow, the presidential candidate got more votes than house representatives!!! What a surprise!
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
AOC doesn't deserve half a country of braindead lutanics attacking her. I'd be happy if she does whatever else she wants away from the toxicity of the republican-anti-science-Qanon-deepstate-pizzagater turds.
 
Aug 12, 2019
5,159
Well, it took only a few hours for a massive amount of the party to start punching harder left than ever while openly continuing to embrace the worst from the right. What a miserable circumstance we live in where someone like Abigail Spanberg can publicly declare that the response to systemic racism and the police murdering Black people as an inconvenience to her re-election and get next to no push back, but progressives can barely bring up the fact that they won this election for Biden without being hounded by Republicans that the Democrats refuse to fight back on.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Blue check liberals on Twitter trying to say that Joe Biden performing better than AOC and Omar in their own districts as a means of them being "irrelevant" is too funny.

Oh wow, the presidential candidate got more votes than house representatives!!! What a surprise!
It absolutely does not indicate they are irrelevant, but AOC can't say Ilhan Omar delivered Biden Minnesota (a state that has been blue forever) when he ran way above her in her own district. Going on about how socialists are costing Dems in house elections in red states is stupid and sour loser shit, but this spiel about how progressives delivered Biden the presidency also makes no sense and isn't supported by any data we have on this election thus far.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,464
Ugh, I just got a push notification article from The Guardian that was trying to make it sound like AOC and the Dems are fighting and "the truce is over".

I know they want clicks, but can we just NOT push the "Dems in disarray" narrative? This coalition just put Trump out on his ass.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,575
Yeah I don't know why everyone is dreaming of an AOC Presidency?

Does she, herself, wants to run?

Because otherwise, it's coming off as a non-romantic version of not knowing your crush as a person.

People have made AOC into something she never desired to be. She is great and a good voice for progressives in the Dems but she has never signaled she has greater political ambitions. The woman should be able to find her place in politics if she wants to without these constant fantasies. If the establishment dinosaur dems wont even embrace the progressives at all where would any of them find the footing to make a bid for the presidency?
 

Zachary_Games

Member
Jul 31, 2020
2,987
I sincerely hope all 53% of folks in my age bracket (18-29) do not think voting out Trump is duty complete. Millennials active participation in politics is critical for transformative, FDR style changes. I'm praying somehow this election awakened millennials to take politics seriously and demand our elected officials have a spine and fight for us.

The days of vapid, safe, establishment phony democrats is over. People my age are literally dying. From drugs, to depression and suicide in record numbers. Best friend's of mine are in the ground for these reasons and it is because there is no fucking hope. Thankfully we have folks like AOC and others, but now is the time for them to air out the internal fuckery going on. No more politeness with the Pelosi and Schumer stooges. They are public enemy number one in my eyes.

I sincerely hope the growing numbers of progressives and justice democrats within the house draw a hardline in the sand and publicly begin shaming the vapid, doner bootlicking democrats that fuck us on policy over, and over again. We cannot have any change in this country until we change our party.
 

MorganFreakman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
353
All of the criticisms from the moderate wing of the party to the progressive just underscores how bad their messaging has been for decades. Honestly if your a moderate democratic and you can't convince your constituents your not a socialist you should really just give up on politics. But like I said, its been a problem with the party for decades. 30 years ago dems weren't "tough on crime" and Clinton passed the 1994 crime bill. 20 years ago dems weren't "tough on terrorism" and a lot of them voted for the Iraq War. 10 years ago it was death panels and they made the ACA more conservative. Now its socialism. Its been a recurring issue since Reagan's administration.

Moderate Democrats need to take a page out of Republican's book. If Republican's want to define the entire democratic party by AOC, then democrats should define Republicans on Madison Cawthorn (Nazi Sympathizer) or Majorie Taylor Greene (Q-Anon Conspiracy nut). Every time either of those two open their mouths, every single republican should have to answer if they agree with their beliefs. The fact that we haven't been able to do that already (like when the Freedom Caucus nuts gained power in the house) says a lot about the incompetence at the top of the party's leadership
 
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MekaMachine

Banned
Sep 17, 2020
241
Many of his supports laughed at the MSNBC infographic showing that the combined moderate vote was ahead of Bernie in the primaries. Indeed, I was one of them. It should've scared us instead.

At a peak of under 30% support nationally, Bernie never had enough support to overcome a unified push from the moderate wing.

I still believe a broad, leftward push is the only way to keep the party relevant long term. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
That graph was an absolute joke, didn't they include Warren in the moderates?
 

UF_C

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,354
Love AOC. If you've never seen the Netflix documentary that followed her winning office, it's great.

(If you just watch 30 seconds, watch the end starting at 1 hour and 21 mins in, where she talks about a road trip she took with her dad to DC when she was a little girl...)

youtu.be

Knock Down The House | FULL FEATURE | Netflix

Four female candidates -- each driven by personal experience and hardship -- enter the 2018 race for Congress, challenging powerful incumbents for a spot at ...
yes please watch this. (My wife is in it and I'm so damn proud of her!)
 
Oct 29, 2017
6,318
Voters weren't the ones who called up Buttigieg and Klobuchar 2 days before Super Tuesday told them to drop out and endorse Biden.

If voters wanted Bernie, it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. It only worked because he didn't have enough support to begin with.

And I say that as someone who donated monthly to Bernie's campaign and planned to vote for him in the primary before he dropped out.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.
She was interviewed. It's not like she said this on Twitter by herself. And she never held back on her answers. She says what she believes, and I'm glad she did so.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,119
Good interview. She overstates her vision for a moderate campaign strategy and underestimates the challenges they face, but she does have a point. She just reaches too far speaking as a representative for one of the bluest districts in the country who hasn't faced a real challenger since winning the 2018 primary and who has been blessed with a crazy war chest.
Could she win if she ran in 2024?
Considering how Bernie has done in the primaries, absolutely not, assuming there even is a competitive primary in 2024. Besides she's made it very clear that isn't on the table. You really think someone who seriously considered not running for reelection due to the stress of the job will somehow turn around and run for president less than five years later?
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,637
But there wouldnt be a drop, I feel thats even that's propaganda. Its just you have another major player insurer in the market, with fed powers. We can't dismantle the billion dollar industry overnight. Its not as if there's going to be a run on doctors the day its signed into law. It sucks, because its a totally made up boogyman, only ones who should be fighting is the industry; ive read how much of the for profit is hurting even doctors (some got laid off during covid!)


"Worse" but still the majority of those voters. You lose black women (who don't even have to to GOP, just become apathetic) what happens? Are those white voters reliable? What happens when you try to trade one base for hopefully another?

Agreed for the most part, although I think access to your doctor and specialists will be impacted as more people are introduced into the system. Also, the for profit portion of hospitals and medical groups won't change. Their business model is such that they are dependent on running up those margins. That said M4A is the right thing to do for us even if some concessions need to me made short term to make it a reality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
No one is shitting on BLM. They are saying "Defund the Police" is bad messaging.


They're 100% correct.

Can you provide perspective on how "defund the police" affected the 2020 election? It seems that people who pushed that message had more success in their reelection efforts.

Good interview. She overstates her vision for a moderate campaign strategy and underestimates the challenges they face, but she does have a point. She just reaches too far speaking as a representative for one of the bluest districts in the country who hasn't faced a real challenger since winning the 2018 primary and who has been blessed with a crazy war chest.

Considering how Bernie has done in the primaries, absolutely not, assuming there even is a competitive primary in 2024. Besides she's made it very clear that isn't on the table. You really think someone who seriously considered not running for reelection due to the stress of the job will somehow turn around and run for president less than five years later?

When you say 'since', do you mean to include or exclude her 2018 opponents? Because if not, a Democratic challenger and a Republican opponent says very little in 2020.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,327
Gentrified Brooklyn
All of the criticisms from the moderate wing of the party to the progressive just underscores how bad their messaging has been for decades. Honestly if your a moderate democratic and you can't convince your constituents your not a socialist you should really just give up on politics. But like I said, its been a problem with the party for decades. 30 years ago dems weren't "tough on crime" and Clinton passed the 1994 crime bill. 20 years ago dems weren't "tough on terrorism" and a lot of them voted for the Iraq War. 10 years ago it was death panels and they made the ACA more conservative. Now its socialism. Its been a recurring issue since Reagan's administration.

Moderate Democrats need to take a page out of Republican's book. If Republican's want to define the entire democratic party by AOC, then democrats should define Republicans on Madison Cawthorn (Nazi Sympathizer) or Majorie Taylor Greene (Q-Anon Conspiracy nut). Every time either of those two open their mouths, every single republican should have to answer if they agree with their beliefs. The fact that we haven't been able to do that already (like when the Freedom Caucus nuts gained power in the house) says a lot about the incompetence at the top of the party's leadership

Yeah, I am on this line. Ive mentioned cynically here before that the Dems biggest wins were when they were 'repub lite' but if you feel you need to adopt some of their politics to survive, how about you give some of their tactics a try first?

It's ironic that they are deathly afraid of branding their GOP counterparts with the same brush they've been painted. It's a party rife with bigotry but nobody wants to make that mention. My fav is when ill watch republican attack ads effectively call Dem politicians racist! lol.

If there's anything the Trump era has taught us is if you rally the base hard you get wins. Everyone bemoans that its hard to get the youth to vote, but maybe if you spoke to them straight; 'The GOP wants their trans friends to suffer, their black friends in jail, their queer friends unable to be married, and their poor friends to die' it would be effective.

The funny thing is when pollsters break down some of the GOP's plans in english, even GOP supporters are suprised ("What, no pre-existing conditions?!?"). The Dems need to speak to what these ultimate policies mean plainly and stop as if its just simple disagreements where the GOP makes it sound like life and death. Because it is
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA


AOC is such an asset to the party. It's frustrating that so many dem loyalists don't see that.

Man she is so good and gets it. It sucks that so many who like to wave AOC around don't actually support her. If they're not careful, she is going to step away which would be a major blow to the voices of people who do actually care about progressive issues.
 

MorganFreakman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
353
Yeah, I am on this line. Ive mentioned cynically here before that the Dems biggest wins were when they were 'repub lite' but if you feel you need to adopt some of their politics to survive, how about you give some of their tactics a try first?

It's ironic that they are deathly afraid of branding their GOP counterparts with the same brush they've been painted. It's a party rife with bigotry but nobody wants to make that mention. My fav is when ill watch republican attack ads effectively call Dem politicians racist! lol.

If there's anything the Trump era has taught us is if you rally the base hard you get wins. Everyone bemoans that its hard to get the youth to vote, but maybe if you spoke to them straight; 'The GOP wants their trans friends to suffer, their black friends in jail, their queer friends unable to be married, and their poor friends to die' it would be effective.

The funny thing is when pollsters break down some of the GOP's plans in english, even GOP supporters are suprised ("What, no pre-existing conditions?!?"). The Dems need to speak to what these ultimate policies mean plainly and stop as if its just simple disagreements where the GOP makes it sound like life and death. Because it is
Its honestly more sad than anything. Until they can realize that its not the policy, but the messaging, we are going to keep getting the same results year after year.
 

Pand

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
554
AOC shouldn't be a Democrat in the same way Trump shouldn't be a Republican. Just two parties can't satisfactorily represent the spectrum of ideologies of the modern world.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
Michigan
I used to somewhat shrug off this thinking, but I heard a part of her interview on CNN this morning and reading some of the comments from the article, I'm coming to realize that the narrative of the Democratic party taking the non-white vote "for granted" is more real than I first thought, and is more of a problem than I thought. I think they assume that minorities will by and large support them no matter what because their other option is Republicans who vocally work against their interests, which "frees the party up" to spend most of their focus on trying to court moderates to their side and the result of that would be a big election-sweeping coalition.

What I get now that I didn't before, is that this strategy doesn't lead to the POC vote going Dem instead of GOP...it just leads to them not turning out at all. Meanwhile, consider Republicans over the last decade; the Tea Party movement started as a small and more radical right-wing subset, but they started to hold the rest of the Republican party hostage, they started to drag the whole party further right and they were able to do so because their message resonated with the more extreme members of their constituency, which started to turn out in numbers and lent the movement credibility over time. Then along comes Trump to take advantage of the wave and now arguably what was once radically-right is the new center-point for the GOP. Strong messaging and strongarm tactics, even for policies that would ultimately hurt the people supporting them, works. The Pelosis of the world still haven't figured this out and continue taking steps to the right to reach out for those that Republicans are dragging further right.