Almost universally, I tend to prefer Japanese game developers to Western ones. Why is that?

[Deleted member 41271]

Tend to be more formulaic with gameplay, and more experimental with storytelling

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I agree with the other parts, but I feel that "more experimental with storytelling" is the exact opposite way round. You will not find a single japanese game that's even half as experimental with storytelling as a run of the mill queer indie game from western indies.

I feel you are overall only correct if you only take AAA devs into account. Once indies on both sides are there... that's not the case anymore. And Japanese indies do a lot with gameplay too - so don't discount them on that either!

 

[Deleted member 29682]

Same here, I perceive Japanese devs as genuine gamers while western devs as corporate suits

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Well this is certainly something. Someone better ring up Lucas Pope and Toby Fox and tell them they're not genuine gamers.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

It's funny how everyone's excuses to the lack of creativity and game play in western games is either talking about multiplayer games or indies.

I'm pretty sure most people here, when comparing sides, are not comparing Japanese AAA games to indies. Obviously we are comparing the biggest games of the west with the biggest games of the east. Obviously indies are a wildcard where you will find anything you want.

Well this is certainly something. Someone better ring up Lucas Pope and Toby Fox and tell them they're not genuine gamers.

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While Egoman worded it badly, I bet he/she means games like FarCry, Call of Duty or anything EA. Where games seem to be made by committees based on market demands rather than a crazy fuckhead like Kamiya or Taro at the helm realizing THEIR vision.

Still it is a reductive statement. But I get where it is coming from. You can tell who made Nier Automata, you can tell who made Bayonetta. Far Cry on the other hand feels like a checklist of stuff that a suit at Ubisoft demands to be in the game to sell X amount of copies.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V

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AC:Odyssey before the DLC.

Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2, Nier Automata

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Most indie games, from Extreme Meatpunks to Undertale to Gone Home to Where the Water Tastes like Wine and even Heaven will be mine. Your two examples aren't even in the same ballpark, I feel.

Singleplayer level design (aka map design or world design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2, RE4.

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The Witness (*shudder*), Braid, Legend of Grimrock 2 (better interconnected world than most soullikes btw), Talos Principle (the way you can spoiler with puzzles while spoiler is genius), Celeste, to name a few.

Yeah I know, forgive my shitty snark it was kinda mean.

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Sorry for snarking back. I like a lot of japanese games too, including some I just listed games as better as, particularly the souls games. I mean, La Mulana 2 was my favorie 2018 game.

Same here, I perceive Japanese devs as genuine gamers while western devs as corporate suits

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Is this parody? This better be parody, because wow. Someone call queer dev twitter, I guess they sold out and are now rich suits, not ~geniune gamers~.

 

[Edgar]

Please name a few to beat these, western fans:

Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V
Horizon Zero dawn, assassin's Creed odyssey , spiderman, fallout new Vegas, far cry series, stalker, minecraft, knack

Third person shooter gameplay: Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 6, Metal Gear Solid V
Gears of War, uncharted 4, splinter cell blacklist, max Payne 3, knack

Third person action RPG gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls 3, Sekiro
Assassin's Creed odyssey, horizon zero dawn, hitman, knack


Third person action game gameplay: Bayonetta 2, Devil May Cry 5, Metal Gear Rising
God of War, for honor, batman games, knack, knack

Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2
Witcher, last of us, spec ops, mass effect, planetscape torment, mafia 3, knack should I go on?

Singleplayer level design (or map design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2
Splinter chaos theory, blacklist, dishonored games, prey, doom, deus ex games, knack should I go on?

First person games in general are done better by the west I'll give you that.



Yeah I know, forgive my shitty snark it was kinda mean.

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[Iztok]

I would've agreed with you in the early 90's, but not in any console generation since.
They both make great stuff, I think.

If anything, japanese game developmengt has faltered significantly recently, at least for me and my gaming habits/tastes.

 

[Deleted member 29682]

It's funny how everyone's excuses to the lack of creativity and game play in western games is either talking about multiplayer games or indies.

I'm pretty sure most people here, when comparing sides, are not comparing Japanese AAA games to indies. Obviously we are comparing the biggest games of the west with the biggest games of the east. Obviously indies are a wildcard where you will find anything you want.



While Egoman worded it badly, I bet he/she means games like FarCry, Call of Duty or anything EA. Where games seem to be made by committees based on market demands rather than a crazy fuckhead like Kamiya or Taro at the helm realizing THEIR vision.

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I just think it's a bit unfair to compare the entire output of a single country with a relatively narrow (though extremely popular) subset of games from every other country. If someone has to include enough caveats to preclude everything smaller than (say) Destiny, it just doesn't really hold the same weight. Because there's a fairly wide gulf between what people perceive to be indie and the biggest AAA franchises. Where do games like Frostpunk, Battletech, Divinity:OS or Paradox's entire output come in these comparisons? All of those games are gameplay heavy, but never really enter the equation when threads like this come up.

 

[Doukou]

Please name a few to beat these, western fans:

Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V

Third person shooter gameplay: Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 6, Metal Gear Solid V

Third person action RPG gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls 3, Sekiro

Third person action game gameplay: Bayonetta 2, Devil May Cry 5, Metal Gear Rising

Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2

Singleplayer level design (or map design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2

First person games in general are done better by the west I'll give you that.

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Man you are not even going to talk about multiplayer gameplay, despite that being arguably more skill intensive.
Also I'm only saying stuff I think is equivalent

Open World Gameplay: Forza Horizon series, Elite Dangerous, Darksiders 2/Kingdom of Amalaur(hey their gameplay is really good even if it falls flat in a lot of areas like Dragons dogma)

Third Person Shooter: Dead Space 2, Mass Effect 2, Warhammer 40k
Also really Resident Evil 6 and Vanquish?

Third Action:It's really just Darksiders 2 and I wouldn't say it's good as Bayonetta/DmC in that regard. But I do think it's good as Dragons Dogma so I included it.

If I could include indies I'd be here forever for storytelling, also you only named one game.
Storytelling: Fallout New Vegas, Bioshock, Witcher 3, Walkimg Dead

Map Design: I'm going to be honest I have no idea what you are going for here. You named a bunch Resident Evil games and then a 2d game and said they are similar. So Batman Asylum, Stalker, Fallout New Vegas I guess.

 

[cooldawn]

I've said this a couple of times before.

Japanese developers seems to craft titles like hand-drawn art, whereas western developers are technically savvy and business orientated. Japanese video games, in both visual art and gameplay design, feel a lot more fantastical and experimental whereas western developers are usually a lot safer in both respects. There's seems to be a lot more heart and soul in Japanese developed games but they also seem to be more fragile as a piece of work.

I say this coming off the back of playing a slew of PlayStation titles since September of last year. I've gone through eight games, six of them are Japanese, all are fantastical with genuinely challenging gameplay loops. The two western developed games are way more formulaic but a lot more solid and stable. I've got two more western developed games to play but I can't see them changing anything considering what they are.

Yeah....Japanese developed game do seems to be the better breed right now.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Please name a few to beat these, western fans:

Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V

Third person shooter gameplay: Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 6, Metal Gear Solid V

Third person action RPG gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls 3, Sekiro

Third person character action gameplay: Bayonetta 2, Devil May Cry 5, Metal Gear Rising

Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2, Nier Automata

Singleplayer level design (aka map design or world design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2, RE4.

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Thats cute. Heres how this kind of bait works from another perspective:

Please name a few to beat these, Japan fans:

FPS Gameplay: Doom 2016, Titanfall 2, Overwatch, Half Life, Apex Legends
Competitive multiplayer (non fighting games): CS:GO, Rocket League, Starcraft, LoL and DotA, Overwatch again
TPS Gameplay: Max Payne 3, Warframe, Dead Space 2
Puzzle Games: Portal1+2, The Witness, Fez, Braid, Obra Dinn, Inside (also platformer), Talos Principle
2D Platformers: Celeste, The Witness, DK Tropical Freeze, Shovel Knight, Sonic Mania
CRPG: Divinity 2, PoE, or any of the older classics
Storytelling and Characterization: TW3, RDR2, GoW, Baldurs Gate 2
Metroidvanias: Ori, Hollow Knight

In reality there are great games from all over the world

 

[Doukou]

It's funny how everyone's excuses to the lack of creativity and game play in western games is either talking about multiplayer games or indies.

I'm pretty sure most people here, when comparing sides, are not comparing Japanese AAA games to indies. Obviously we are comparing the biggest games of the west with the biggest games of the east. Obviously indies are a wildcard where you will find anything you want.



While Egoman worded it badly, I bet he/she means games like FarCry, Call of Duty or anything EA. Where games seem to be made by committees based on market demands rather than a crazy fuckhead like Kamiya or Taro at the helm realizing THEIR vision.

Still it is a reductive statement. But I get where it is coming from. You can tell who made Nier Automata, you can tell who made Bayonetta. Far Cry on the other hand feels like a checklist of stuff that a suit at Ubisoft demands to be in the game to sell X amount of copies.

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What about stuff like Resident Evil? You think they don't have a checklist for their games. Or Pokemon, the actual big games of the East(ignoring mobile I guess). Nier is comparable to something like Hellblade than AC Odyssey.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Solid lists from ya'll, gotta give you that.

 

[Phediuk]

Please name a few to beat these, Japanese game fans:

First-person shooter single-player: Titanfall 2, Doom 2016, Wolfenstein TNO,

First-person shooter multiplayer: Counter-Strike, Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege

First-person action RPG gameplay: Deus Ex, Prey, Dying Light, Kingdom Come Deliverance

Single-player level design: Antichamber, Portal, Braid, The Witness

Grand strategy: Crusader Kings 2, Rome Total War, Europa Universalis 4

Real-time strategy: Starcraft 2, Warcraft 3, Age of Empires 2

MOBA: League of Legends, Dota 2

Loot game: Diablo 2, Path of Exile, Borderlands 2

Roguelike: Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, FTL

Sandbox: Minecraft, Terraria, Starbound

Space sim: Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Rebel Galaxy

Twin-stick shooter: Nex Machina, Geometry Wars

Storytelling and characterization: Planescape Torment, The Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2

 

[Dr. Caroll]

Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V

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Far Cry 3/4/5/Primal/New Dawn, Assassin's Creed Origins/Odyssey, STALKER, Watch_Dogs 2, Dying Light.

Third person shooter gameplay: Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 6, Metal Gear Solid V

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Max Payne 2/3, Mafia III, Dead Space 1/2/3, Sniper Elite 4, Watch_Dogs 1, Hitman: Absolution.

Third person action RPG gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls 3, Sekiro

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Assassin's Creed: Odyssey.

Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2, Nier Automata

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Deus Ex/Deus Ex: Invisible War/System Shock 2/Planescape: Torment, Wolfenstein: The New Order/The Old Blood/The New Colossus, Spec Ops: The Line, Get Even, To the Moon, Kane & Lynch 2


...Knights of the Old Republic II, Fallout: New Vegas, VTMB, Thief 1/2 and many other classic PC games that had unbelievably good writing.

I guess it's a little unfair, though. Games from English-speaking countries have the benefit of English prose. Japanese games are typically written in Japanese and translated into English, and that means they generally don't have the kind of breathtakingly beautiful prose you'd find in something like System Shock 2.


A number of the Far Cry deserve a shout-out, too. Some love the nihilistic writing in Far Cry 2.


Some love Far Cry 3.


I'm partial to Far Cry 4 myself. Probably Troy Baker's greatest performance, and a brilliantly written game overall. Also, Far Cry 5 deserves a massive shoutout. I'd sincerely argue some scenes in the game rank among the greatest writing and acting in videogames.

Singleplayer level design (aka map design or world design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2

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Thief. Thief 2. Thief 3. Dishonored. Dishonored 2. Dishonored: Death of the Outsider. Prey. Deus Ex/Human Revolution/Mankind Divided. The Hitman series. The Splinter Cell series. Games like Hitman 2 are masterclasses of level design. Many others I could cite. Unfortunately, old fashioned level design is a bit of a dying art in AAA production.

 

[cooldawn]

God these lists are stupid. It doesn't work like this. It's not a 1-to-1 ratio we're talking about here, it's the nuanced differences in design due to culture.

Please, stop these irrelevant lists.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Japanese developers seems to craft titles like hand-drawn art, whereas western developers are technically savvy and business orientated. Japanese video games, in both visual art and gameplay design, feel a lot more fantastical and experimental whereas western developers are usually a lot safer in both respects. There's seems to be a lot more heart and soul in Japanese developed games but they also seem to be more fragile as a piece of work.

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What are you actually basing this on?

Big japanese games are almost always extremely corporate, with heavy mandates from upstairs on the devs how games should be made and what is and isn't allowed. Market research plays HEAVILY into development, and companies usually play it extremely safe - that's why you get the constant, gross sexualization. It's the safest way to pander to an easy audience. Nintendo doesn't even dare to shake up their games too much out of fear that fans overreact (and, as Windwaker's artstyle shows, the fans do).

You're basically taking a few rare exceptions (like Demon Souls, which was only even allowed to get there because it was a failed project in the hands of a new leader that looked at it with open eyes) and extrapolating them to the whole industry of a country where we *know* things don't work differently from western big devs. Companies like SNK, Konami, Sega are downright famous for that kind of thing and horrible business/crunch culture.

It's such rose-tinted glasses. The reality is that big Japanese devs are exchangeable with big western ones when it comes to being business oriented, and some of the bigger JP ones make most western ones look good (ie, Konami, Capcom) in this regard. And that's not even getting into all the cynical cash grabs done in the japanese Pachinko/mobile business.

In reality there are great games from all over the world

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This.

 

[GamingRobioto]

It's more of a result of my personal tastes than a statement about my expectations.

I tend to see a game, or a game trailer, and usually by the art direction alone I can tell if its a game I want to play within seconds.

To me it feels that Japanese games/developers:

• Tend to have more colorful environments
• Utilize fantasy settings more often than futuristic
• Are more inspired by anime. It's hard to describe what I mean, but that the lines are more "sharp" and there are more angles in general.
• Are more likely to prioritize single-player experiences over multi-player experiences
• Tend to be more formulaic with gameplay, and more experimental with storytelling

Western is the opposite:

• Tend to have more "normal" environments
• Utilize modern/futuristic settings more often than fantasy
• Are more inspired by real-life or western style cartoons (more round shapes)
• Seem to favor single-player and multi-player in equal amounts
• Tend to be more formulaic with storytelling, but more experimental in gameplay.

Am I wrong, or does anyone else notice these types of trends?

It's like......I can tell if a game is Japanese or not. Really obviously.

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I'm with you on most of your points and I find myself naturally leaning towards Japanese games more and more. But to add to your list I would add monetisation. Who are the worst culprits? Ubisoft, Activision Blizzard, Warner Bros, EA. Where are they from? One from France and four from the USA.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Far Cry 3/4/5/Primal/New Dawn, Assassin's Creed Origins/Odyssey, STALKER, Watch_Dogs 2, Dying Light.

Max Payne 2/3, Mafia III, Dead Space 1/2/3, Sniper Elite 4, Watch_Dogs 1, Hitman: Absolution.

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey.

Deus Ex/Deus Ex: Invisible War/System Shock 2/Planescape: Torment, Wolfenstein: The New Order/The Old Blood/The New Colossus, Spec Ops: The Line, Get Even, To the Moon, Kane & Lynch 2


...Knights of the Old Republic II, Fallout: New Vegas, VTMB, Thief 1/2 and many other classic PC games that had unbelievably good writing.

I guess it's a little unfair, though. Games from English-speaking countries have the benefit of English prose. Japanese games are typically written in Japanese and translated into English, and that means they generally don't have the kind of breathtakingly beautiful prose you'd find in something like System Shock 2.


A number of the Far Cry deserve a shout-out, too. Some love the nihilistic writing in Far Cry 2.


Some love Far Cry 3.
Video

I'm partial to Far Cry 4 myself. Probably Troy Baker's greatest performance, and a brilliantly written game overall. Also, Far Cry 5 deserves a massive shoutout. I'd sincerely argue some scenes in the game rank among the greatest writing and acting in videogames.

Thief. Thief 2. Thief 3. Dishonored. Dishonored 2. Dishonored: Death of the Outsider. Prey. Deus Ex/Human Revolution/Mankind Divided. The Hitman series. The Splinter Cell series. Games like Hitman 2 are masterclasses of level design. Many others I could cite. Unfortunately, old fashioned level design is a bit of a dying art in AAA production.

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Your post proves how people are talking shit about thing they don't understand.

I just don't understand how people decide to play only one side of games. Every part of the world makes some amazing games. Wether it is Yakuza, Hitman, Doom, Resident Evil, Ys, Ridge Racer, Drive Club, God of War. All these are great games.

 

[EarthPainting]

I guess I generally prefer Japanese games too, but the distinction between east and western design feel a bit arbitrary. Especially after the indie-boom. For me the whole thing boils down to a few principles. I don't really care about:
- Simulation
- Immersion
- Realism
- Open worlds
- Trying to marry movie-aesthetics with video games, especially in terms of music
- Standardisation in games
- Bleeding edge tech
- Quippy or sarcastic characters
- First person perspectives

Not every Western game values these things, and more than a few Japanese games do. I don't actively dislike most of these elements, but when they are a big part of your sales pitch, I'll probably be wondering what else you got. The only big exception is the first person perspectives. They increase my chance of headaches exponentially, so I avoid those if I don't have an extensive graphical settings menu.

Now the things I do value are:
- Campy bullshit
- Weird new ideas or implementations
- Stylised art directions
- Games that remember that women exist, and allows them to participate
- The reinvention of the wheel, or questioning if we even need wheels for better or worse
- Game design that forces you to use your abilities, rather than design that treats your abilities as a freedom of expression
- Melodic music
- Third person perspectives

Again, plenty of western games that fulfil these criteria, and just as many Japanese games that don't. Kind of makes me wonder how many of these decisions of the latter list are informed by smaller budgets, and arcade-y roots though. Maybe it's just that what I gravitate towards.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Both are great. Everyone is gonna be biased towards what they like.

 

[cooldawn]

What are you actually basing this on?

Big japanese games are almost always extremely corporate, with heavy mandates from upstairs on the devs how games should be made and what is and isn't allowed. Market research plays HEAVILY into development, and companies usually play it extremely safe - that's why you get the constant, gross sexualization. It's the safest way to pander to an easy audience. Nintendo doesn't even dare to shake up their games too much out of fear that fans overreact (and, as Windwaker's artstyle shows, the fans do).

You're basically taking a few rare exceptions (like Demon Souls, which was only even allowed to get there because it was a failed project in the hands of a new leader that looked at it with open eyes) and extrapolating them to the whole industry of a country where we *know* things don't work differently from western big devs. Companies like SNK, Konami, Sega are downright famous for that kind of thing and horrible business/crunch culture.

It's such rose-tinted glasses. The reality is that big Japanese devs are exchangeable with big western ones when it comes to being business oriented, and some of the bigger JP ones make most western ones look good (ie, Konami, Capcom) in this regard. And that's not even getting into all the cynical cash grabs done in the japanese Pachinko/mobile business.

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I'm basing it on my personal experience of Japanese games and Western games, especially including those I've played since September of last year (I had a large backlog I'm getting through right now). The way a business is run may bleed in to game design but I haven't seen corporate Japan influences in any of them so far.

For clarification, I'm referencing Japanese culture in game design and art direction. They are a tier above the majority of western developed games and usually have more diverse mechanics, by extension more challenging gameplay and an artistic touch that makes games feel crafted rather than coming off a production line, however, there's no doubt western games are usually way more technically solid or complete, hence I used the word 'fragile' to describe Japanese games.

Of course there are big-ticket Japanese releases that display major corporate and market influences but if you punch through that shell there's a lot of Japanese developed games, not indie games, that feel hand crafted, specifically designed to provide the most satisfying and unique experience. By comparison, especially recent western big-ticket games, there's less distinction between those and releases of yesteryear in regards to game design. One can quite easily follow the other. Japanese games tend to be more experimental.

I'm not saying western games are no good either because there's room for both to co-exist for different reasons.

 

[Crayon]

North, south, east, or west, anime will always be the default style for all video games. Anything else i considered a deviation.

 

[Shadoken]

I bet they'd watch Devil May Cry 5 ;)

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They'd play it and say the gameplay is bad because its too videogame-like or Arcadey and not Movie like. Because of the cancels,juggles..etc.

 

[Jakisthe]

bet you cant guess which is japanese and which is western

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Oh yeah, famous Japanese game The Witcher 3.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

I can't say I agree. I find entire swathes of games in Japanese utterly stagnant (such as JRPGs), and I always have trouble handling the utterly sexist designs so prevalent in Japanese games. Which isn't to say that western games don't have those issues, but not nearly to the degree of Japanese titles.

Even games with exemplary, and best in genre, combat such as DMC5 still have both absolutely archaic level design and feature female characters that simply exist for horny dudes.

 

[lumzi23]

Oh yeah, famous Japanese game The Witcher 3.

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You do realise the second screenshot isn't the Witcher 3 or a western game?

 

[Van Bur3n]

You do realise the second screenshot isn't the Witcher 3 or a western game?

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I think they're saying it's actually clear which is the Japanese game and which isn't because it blatantly says "The Witcher 3" right in the screenshot. A game where most know it's not Japanese.

 

[LonestarZues]

Some of the posts in this thread are really, really, really weird. I'm sitting here wondering if some Japanese games fans have literally never played any non-Japanese games that weren't made by Sony or Rockstar. Maybe it's a cycle. People don't like non-Japanese games, so they don't play them, and as a result they don't really know what they're talking about.

People say weird stuff like, "Japanese developers place a higher priority on gameplay." Compared to whom? How does MGS place higher focus on gameplay than Thief? Than Splinter Cell? To Far Cry? Japanese developers were the ones with long, long, long cutscenes while most of the rest of the industry was chopping game narrative down to its bones.

People talk as thought Metal Gear Solid V, for example, is some amazing brainstroke of Japanese game design that is unique to Japan. It's basically a Ubisoft game without the systemic living breathing world stuff because that stuff is really hard to do. Where do people think that minimalist approach to narrative came from? Did they not play Far Cry 2 or something? Also, notice how nobody credits Call of Duty games for their extremely responsive controls? For their approach to storytelling that typically leaves the player in control of their character as much as possible?

I know most gamers don't know anything about game development, but it's kinda odd how many seem completely unaware that gameplay prototyping is the first stage of AAA game development. Before a game gets greenlit, developers typically have to demonstrate how it will play. Why people will want to play it. It's absolutely critical. Nobody sells their game to a publisher or gets it greenlit on the basis of having a cool sounding story. AAA publishers don't care about the story, the characters, the visuals. They don't care so much about why you do the things you do, but rather what you do.

The gameplay loop of a game is typically nailed down when the level design consists of coloured blocks. It is iterated and polished all the way to the end of development, and even after development ends. Developers work closely with playtesters to figure out how to make the gameplay better.

Not to mention all the comments about game music that blithely omit all the games with bold, evocative music so people can trot out some kind of "Japanese developers care about melody while everyone else only cares about mood music".

Far Cry New Dawn was released a month ago. Has a narrative so minimal it attracted complaints. Has a bold and memorable soundtrack that is slightly less bold and memorable than Far Cry 5, which was released a year ago. It's exactly the sort of game that gets ignored in these sorts of threads because it doesn't fit the weird "non-Japanese games are playable movies with bland meandering soundtracks and very little focus on gameplay" schtick.




Watch_Dogs 2 was released three years ago. Was deeply gameplay focused. Mechanics. Systems. Etc. Watch_Dogs 3 will be the same. So will the next Splinter Cell. In fact, as others have probably mentioned, the arguments against "western" game design seem to completely ignore the existence of Ubisoft as a company for the most part. Instead we get this fixation on Sony "cinematic" titles and Rockstar "stray too far to the left and it's game over" games.

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Great post. I always appreciate reading your posts as they are always well thought out.

I like both styles of games and growing up in did prefer the Japanese style, but nowadays I'd pick the Western game over the Japanese game most of the time as I feel they're usually of a higher quality and less of a chance of not liking the game.

 

[Flame Lord]

Apex Legends, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Destiny, and Overwatch are all examples of mechanics-first games. Just because you don't like the mechanics in those games doesn't mean they're not the focus.

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Never claimed they didn't, but I find their mechanics boring so it really doesn't matter.

 

[Grahf]

Yeah no matter how I spin it all my best game experiences (except maybe WRPGs duh !) have all been japanese : Xeno games, Souls games, FFs, Metal Gear, Shenmue...

 

[Crossing Eden]

Never claimed they didn't, but I find their mechanics boring so it really doesn't matter.

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It absolutely does matter in the context of the discussion of mechanically focused western games, (which the majority in this day and age are). Your opinion on whether or not they're boring doesn't.

 

[Gilver]

I usually find western AAA games very clunky in the responsiveness maybe due to an emphasis in animation fluidity over feel when it comes to 3rd person games. I can usually tell if I like a game by how it feels.

 

[Flame Lord]

It absolutely does matter in the context of the discussion of mechanically focused western games, (which the majority in this day and age are). Your opinion on whether or not they're boring doesn't.

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The discussion was why do or do you not like Japanese developed games over Western ones. Just because more western games are mechanically focused as you claim, doesn't mean I like or care for those mechanics.

 

[CerealKi11a]

-A little bit of orientalism thinking titles focus tested or pandering to Japanese audiences are somehow more auteurish than Western ones

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I wonder how much this has to do with it. I have literally no facts to back this up, but my feeling is that this is definitely an important point. I mean, the very fact that we can somehow reduce the games discussion to Japanese vs. Western leads me to believe this is occurring. Is "Western" culture so homogenous that all "Western" games are the same and belong in the same bucket? I suppose I don't have a good answer.

 

[shinobi602]

You know what you like and you're comfortable with it, which is a great thing.

I think my games collection is around 95% western so I'm pretty certain which I prefer lol, but the best part is there's something for everybody out there.

 

[skullwaker]

For me a big thing is that I prefer how Japanese-developed games control compared to western-developed games.

Like western games have a tendency to feel very weighty and sluggish to me. At least in terms of AAA releases.

 

[alr1ght]

They haven't fallen into the trap yet of making games that are basically reskins of other popular games.

 

[Jmdajr]

I used to feel like that in the 16 bit era. These days not so much. Western developed games can bring me just as much joy and entertainment.

 

[bane833]

They have just flat out better gameplay most of the time.

 

[Cess007]

..

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I don't know who you are, but I love you if only because you included Knack in every category lmao

 

[Toxi]

They haven't fallen into the trap yet of making games that are basically reskins of other popular games.

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[Zen]

Edit: actually, imma make a thread.

 

[yyr]

Haha, yeah, dumb Westerners, making stuff like Dota, Counter-strike, Minecraft, and Rocket League, wtf are these interactive movies with no gameplay.

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Those are all dedicated multiplayer games, which are very different from single-player games, which I thought was the focus of the thread (given the OP talked about gameplay/storytelling balance, whereas multiplayer games never have much of a story).

Persona 5 focuses more on compelling story. Doom 2016 focuses more on skill-based action. The stereotypes of Japanese and non-Japanese games don't really capture the variety that exists.

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I feel like you have to ignore like every popular JRPG series for this to true and focus on a subset of Western games.

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Yes, there will always be outliers and exceptions. Heck, the entire JRPG genre is an exception, because RPGs always have a story-heavy focus. But most Japanese games aren't like Persona 5, and most Western games aren't like Doom 2016.

 

[PspLikeANut]

Those are all dedicated multiplayer games, which are very different from single-player games, which I thought was the focus of the thread (given the OP talked about gameplay/storytelling balance, whereas multiplayer games never have much of a story).

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Warcraft 3 Starcraft 1+2, Diablo's 1 2 3, Age of Empires are top tier single player games despite also having excellent multiplayer. Matter of fact some of the best stories can be found in these games.

I can also name you a few rhythm games, like Beat Saber or Thumper that barely have any storytelling or multiplayer but offer insane complexity in the gameplay department.

 

[Phediuk]

Yes, there will always be outliers and exceptions. Heck, the entire JRPG genre is an exception, because RPGs always have a story-heavy focus. But most Japanese games aren't like Persona 5, and most Western games aren't like Doom 2016.

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cool, "most Western games" aren't like The Last of Us or Red Dead Redemption either. In fact basically anything not made by Sony or Rockstar is not like those. Can we stop acting like they are the baseline for "Western games" please. Thanks.

 

[Ethifury]

Well it helps that this generation was amazing for Japanese developers. From Bloodborne to Mario to Xenoblade to Nier to Dark Souls to Resident Evil, they've retaken their throne after last generation.

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I agree. This generation turned me more into a fan of Japanese games compared to Western devs. But I was already headed in that direction since I love manga/anime

 

[Ethifury]

Bloodborne, Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, Nier Automata, Yakuza 0, Xenoblade 2...

Honestly these have been the cream of the crop this generation for me. Yes, yes... avatar quote.

Witcher 3 was pretty good too, but then I struggle to think of other Western games I've really enjoyed lately. Certainly was more balanced previous gen but Japan has really made a great comeback.

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God of War and Spider-Man not on your list?

 

[Deleted member 32804]

God of War and Spider-Man not on your list?

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Haven't played them. No interest in GOW and Spider-Man I may pick up when on sale.

 

[Vinc]

There is a ton of talented veterans working in the industry in Japan. The same is true in the west, but the industry was heavily dominated by Japan earlier on in video game history, so they got a bit of a headstart!

 

[Barsi]

You are right! A few Western studios make games with soul and quality.

Most of Western games (80-90%) are generic boring shooters.

They make great games by technical measures but boring.

Japanese studios this gen are doing everything right. Just look to this year and last one...