‘Destiny 2’ And The Ethics Of Deleting Two Years Of Paid Content

[platocplx]

Now that we have the full list of everything Destiny 2 is "vaulting" ie. deleting from the game with Beyond Light, I find myself pondering a question that has plagued the game since the content vault was announced.

What are the ethical or potentially legal implications of deleting previously paid-for content from a video game?

I am not coming on "mad" at Bungie here. In truth, I personally don't really care about most of the stuff going away from a practical standpoint, I just think this is an interesting question in the era of video games in 2020, and "evolving worlds" that have to break long-established rules or risk strangling themselves to death.

The fact of the matter is that Bungie is removing access to more or less two years of content. All of the Red War, Curse of Osiris and Warmind campaigns. Everything in Black Armory, Season of the Drifter and Season of Opulence. The full zones of Io, Titan, Mercury, Mars and everything in Leviathan, from four raids to Menagerie. Really, the only things left from Years 1-2 of Destiny are the EDZ, Nessus and the Tower, the loot we got from those first two years if we kept it (even if it's being "sunset," it's not literally disappearing).

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But this is kind of a wild situation because depending on when you got the game, you paid $60 for the base game, and $35 for the expansion pass. That's $95 for content just a few years ago that simply no longer exists.

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Think about how this would feel in a different, perhaps non-live service game. You bought Assassin's Creed Odyssey and its DLC. One day you log in to find the map cut in half and all the story missions gone. That's effectively what's happened here, only in Destiny's case, there's year 3, and now year 4 content to fill the gap.

The problem is Destiny has essentially positioned itself as a subscription service like Netflix, although that was not made clear up front. When you pay $120 a year for Netflix, you understand you are not literally paying to own every title in its library. Things are added, things depart every month.

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more at the link

‘Destiny 2’ And The Ethics Of Deleting Two Years Of Paid Content

Now that we have the full list of everything Destiny 2 is “vaulting” we grapple with this question: Is it okay to delete content people have paid for in a game?

www.forbes.com

but this really does say something here for people who bought the game for damn near 100 dollars and then they went free to play etc. I honestly feel like this really is a huge mess and a failed experiment here.

and i get the technical reasons of why they are doing this. but they couldve probally avoided a lot of this by actually making a D3 and being able to justify this kind of thing going forward vs people like me who bought in and paid 60 bucks for it to go free to play etc.

 

[Slayven]

This is some wild shit, what are they saying is the reason they are vaulting stuff?

 

[Vimto]

This is some wild shit, what are they saying is the reason they are vaulting stuff?

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Game size is ballooning with each update. Complexity. Difficult to maintain as they focus on play testing old content. etc

 

[Komo]

and i get the technical reasons of why they are doing this. but they couldve probally avoided a lot of this by actually making a D3 and being able to justify this kind of thing going forward vs people like me who bought in and paid 60 bucks for it to go free to play etc.

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Those technical reasons were why they made Destiny 2, and supposedly fixed the system so it wasn't this bad, but it seems that Bungie clearly didn't care enough to do so. There's no technical limitations, and more a budget thing since I'd assume revamping their system now will be impossible to do. Which is a huge shame cause there's a lot of moments in Destiny 2 content which will never be able to be experienced because of their vaulting.

 

[Woetyler]

I'm glad I threw in the towel before D2 really got started.

 

[TheRulingRing]

I can understand some of the justifications but some things are shitty, namely removing Leviathan. Will the "new" Vault of Glass be available to people who haven't paid for the new expansion?

Also no doubt Bungie will piecemeal return this stuff to the game 2 years down the line and present it as "new content" to hype up the playerbase.

Also Sunsetting is just an utter cop-out and a cheap and lazy way of balancing the sandbox.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I'm glad I threw in the towel before D2 really got started.

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I have yet to start D2, so this might be a good jumping-on point for me if it's good.

 

[Vashetti]

This is some wild shit, what are they saying is the reason they are vaulting stuff?

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• Destiny 2 is too large to efficiently update and maintain.
• The size and complexity of the game are also contributing to more bugs and less innovation.
• Instead of building a Destiny 3 and leaving D2 behind, each year, we are going to cycle older, less actively played content out of the live game and into what we're calling the Destiny Content Vault (DCV).
• This will allow us to add to and support D2 for years, including the three new annual expansions we announced today, starting with Beyond Light this fall.

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Bungie.net

www.bungie.net

 

[Carn]

This is some wild shit, what are they saying is the reason they are vaulting stuff?

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per Bungie:

Bungie.net

www.bungie.net

TL;DR

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• Destiny 2 is too large to efficiently update and maintain.
• The size and complexity of the game are also contributing to more bugs and less innovation.
• Instead of building a Destiny 3 and leaving D2 behind, each year, we are going to cycle older, less actively played content out of the live game and into what we're calling the Destiny Content Vault (DCV).
• This will allow us to add to and support D2 for years, including the three new annual expansions we announced today, starting with Beyond Light this fall.
• The DCV will include all content from Destiny 1 and anything that cycles out from Destiny 2.
• We will bring back (or "unvault") activity and destination content from the DCV each year.
• Unvaulting starts in D2 Year 4, with the Cosmodrome coming back, as well as its three strikes and the return of the Vault of Glass raid.
• The primary D2 content leaving the game and going into the DCV this fall are the destinations – Mars, Io, Titan, Mercury and Leviathan – and their supported activities.
• There will be new ways to earn the Exotics originally linked to content that has entered the DCV.
• When Beyond Light ships, the Director will have the following destinations:
  
  • Europa (new)
  • Cosmodrome (unvaulted)
  • Moon
  • Tangled Shore
  • Dreaming City
  • European Dead Zone
  • Nessus
• This approach allows us respond to player feedback more rapidly, enable more innovation, and will keep Destiny 2 and your characters thriving for years to come.
• More details to come soon and throughout the year.

 

[Ramirez]

It'll get updated and come back eventually. I paid $60 for something that became F2P eventually, who gives a shit? If that bothers you, just wait until it's heavily discounted or free. I'm paying to play right now, and play relevant content.

 

[Loud Wrong]

The amount of content being removed is inexcusable.

 

[John Rabbit]

Those technical reasons were why they made Destiny 2, and supposedly fixed the system so it wasn't this bad, but it seems that Bungie clearly didn't care enough to do so. There's no technical limitations, and more a budget thing since I'd assume revamping their system now will be impossible to do. Which is a huge shame cause there's a lot of moments in Destiny 2 content which will never be able to be experienced because of their vaulting.

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They made Destiny 2 because Activision wanted a franchise they could milk year-after-year and not a service game. The foundation of the experience isn't congruous with the game Bungie wanted it to be/wants it to be going forward.

 

[Slayven]

Game size is ballooning with each update. Complexity. Difficult to maintain as they focus on play testing old content. etc

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I mean Everquest just released their 23rd expansion and haven't Disney vaulted anything I know of

 

[LTWood]

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

 

[Secretofmateria]

Ive spent over 300 dollars on destiny and its sequel and expansions, ive bought the season passes. What bungie is doing here is wrong, and frankly they wont get another cent out of me. I get why they did it, but i feel ripped off

 

[platocplx]

Those technical reasons were why they made Destiny 2, and supposedly fixed the system so it wasn't this bad, but it seems that Bungie clearly didn't care enough to do so. There's no technical limitations, and more a budget thing since I'd assume revamping their system now will be impossible to do. Which is a huge shame cause there's a lot of moments in Destiny 2 content which will never be able to be experienced because of their vaulting.

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exactly like this is ALL the shit they are removing:

Raids – Total: 5
Strikes – Total: 7

Adventures - Total: 16

Lost Sectors - Total: 9

Crucible Maps – Total: 10

Gambit Maps – Total: 2

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All The Content ‘Destiny 2’ Is Removing For Beyond Light When The Pyramids Eat Everything

Destiny 2 is nuking a massive amount of content this fall in Beyond Light. Here's my trying to keep track of it all.

www.forbes.com

 

[svacina]

This is some wild shit, what are they saying is the reason they are vaulting stuff?

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It's over 100GB at the moment.

Also Mercury needs to die no matter what.

 

[BadWolf]

This is pretty messed up.

The game should have been F2P if this is their mindset.

 

[platocplx]

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

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Free to play players sure, but people like me that put at least 100 bucks into that game we all should be upset about it.

 

[diablogg]

I still don't get how maintaining Destiny is so borked trying to maintain a decent amount of content compared to many of the other of these types of games I have played (MMOs, looter type games, diablo type games.) I said this in another thread and I still generally feel the same way as I read more about there decisions for this:
" As someone who's played MMOs on and off for past 2 decades, has also played a bit of Destiny 1 and none of Destiny 2, like what is the point of removing a bunch of content? A few posts here gave me the impression the game will run better without it? How the hell does that even work? "

 

[hydruxo]

This is pretty messed up.

The game should have been F2P is this is their mindset.

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It is free to play.

 

[platocplx]

This is pretty messed up.

The game should have been F2P is this is their mindset.

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Exactly. it shouldve been F2P from the get go if they knew this was their plan from launch of D2

 

[Ryan.]

Most of the content wasn't even being played anyways unless the players were forced to. I don't think anyone is upset that they're getting rid of the stories from the Year 1 expansions

 

[DNAbro]

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

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I'm not clapping or happy for it either. I don't think it's great and it sucks and it's embarrassing that it came to this point.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

What I don't understand is based on what cross said in that video from the other day they're vaulting content in order to rework it and get it updated so that in the future they can bring it back in their updated ecosystem or whatever. When you frame it in that light it's infinitely better than simply taking something away.

 

[disco_potato]

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

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That's cause Bungie has us brainwashed and we can't say no.
The flawed logic is some aspects of the game are shit, this will make it better, give it to me.

 

[Reizzz]

I've been trying to compare it to hearthstone or something that does the same thing essentially but this is PVE stuff mostly in Destiny so getting rid of it is weird

 

[svacina]

Free to play players sure, but people like me that put at least 100 bucks into that game we all should be upset about it.

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Bro, I D1P'd the original D2 and then preordered every expansion along with a season pass.

I don't give a flying fuck.

 

[Slayven]

It's over 100GB at the moment.

Also Mercury needs to die no matter what.

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I always thought it was poorly thought out from the start. You go to a few planets for one or 2 things and probably won't visit them again for weeks of play sessions.

 

[platocplx]

Bro, I D1P'd the original D2 and then preordered every expansion along with a season pass.

I don't give a flying fuck.

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ok

 

[TriangularDuck]

Exactly. it shouldve been F2P from the get go if they knew this was their plan from launch of D2

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This wasn't their plan from the launch of D2. Their plan back then was to release sequels as outlined in their contractual obligation to Activision.

 

[Loud Wrong]

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

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So tired of this line of thinking. I play daily. I hate it.

 

[svacina]

You go to a few planets for one or 2 things and probably won't visit them again for weeks of play sessions.

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Depends on how much you are desperate for XP and wanna grind daily bounties.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Paul Tassi? Paul Tassi

It kind of sucks to see content being removed, but a lot of this content is also the oldest and is, according to "numbers" from them, is played the least. Given how often they change something for newer content and absolutely break old, it didn't surprise me too much that they were doing this. The older areas even show their age against the Y2 content with the Tangled Shore and Dreaming City.

The other possibility I could see is, if they vault it to update it, give us a few engine tweaks for next-gen to make it run better or make it easier to develop content for, they could take advantage of not having to duplicate data eventually and actually make the game smaller in general.

For all we know this is what it happening and Cosmodrome coming back is a sort of preview for this: they tweak very old D1 content, bring it back, rotate in some new stuff, update the engine, suddenly we have old stuff come back and it's all connected as one big game (so D1 + D2) that's barely bigger than what we have now and you could even have it offer to download the pieces you want instead of all of it being downloaded all the time.

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

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Except for a smallish minority, pretty much the truth. The content that's going away was made free last year, which may or may not be related.

 

[disco_potato]

I still don't get how maintaining Destiny is so borked trying to maintain a decent amount of content compared to many of the other of these types of games I have played (MMOs, looter type games, diablo type games.) I said this in another thread and I still generally feel the same way as I read more about there decisions for this:
" As someone who's played MMOs on and off for past 2 decades, has also played a bit of Destiny 1 and none of Destiny 2, like what is the point of removing a bunch of content? A few posts here gave me the impression the game will run better without it? How the hell does that even work? "

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Archaic engine, archaic tools, complex spaghetti code.

 

[APOEERA]

I got the Platinum on Destiny 2 but fell off after Forsaken came out (due to Collection Seal and Triumphs being really grindy and overly difficult). If this is the case, Bungie will have to change the main trophy list again (since doing a Leviathan raid and doing it on Heroic are part of the Platinum).

 

[OHRye]

To play Devil's Advocate here...I played Destiny 2 at launch, and through the first raid. Quit after that.

I try to play again about 3 months ago, and I was OVERWHELEMED with how confusing everything was. New currency, new story missions, new worlds. I literally had no idea what I was supposed to do first, what was important. It sucked, and I jumped right off and said forget it.

With all the old content being "deleted", with Beyond Light, it feels like it will make it easier for me to jump back in right?

 

[lt519]

As a Destiny fan it's obviously the right move for the series and having lived their struggles to develop new content for 6 years I think the large majority of fans are OK with letting old content go for the betterment of the game they live and breathe. I stopped playing after the Season of the Dawn as it became stale but will hop back in with Beyond Light. I actually look forward to not having my entire quest inventory filled with 3 year old story-lines that reward OBE items. As someone who now just hops on for each new expansion it's overwhelming when first booting it back up.

It is free to play.

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Not all the content they are removing was F2P though was it? I thought raids, forges, etc, were still locked behind the paid passes?

To play Devil's Advocate here...I played Destiny 2 at launch, and through the first raid. Quit after that.

I try to play again about 3 months ago, and I was OVERWHELEMED with how confusing everything was. New currency, new story missions, new worlds. I literally had no idea what I was supposed to do first, what was important. It sucked, and I jumped right off and said forget it.

With all the old content being "deleted", with Beyond Light, it feels like it will make it easier for me to jump back in right?

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This is exactly how me and all my friends, who were hardcore D1 and D2 up through the first raid, felt. Only a few of us even made it to Shadowkeep because Forsaken was a bit jarring to jump back into.

 

[Browser]

No one who actually plays Destiny 2 is mad about this.

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Can you elaborate? Meaning no one currently playing destiny today consumes this content?

How about new players?

Also, what are your thoughts on the questions raised by the OP, what would be the moral and legal implications of a dev removing content you paid for for no reason other than "its costing too much to maintain"?

I mean, when games remove support for MP is already bad enough. but this is literally removing huge swats of content.

 

[svacina]

I play daily. I hate it.

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The Destiny Creed.

 

[MrConbon210]

Exactly. it shouldve been F2P from the get go if they knew this was their plan from launch of D2

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I don't think they knew this was their plan. Back then they were with Activison and I assume they were going to end up launching Destiny 3. Now that they are independent, they are sticking with Destiny 2 which was something they weren't aware of.

 

[Loud Wrong]

I always thought it was poorly thought out from the start. You go to a few planets for one or 2 things and probably won't visit them again for weeks of play sessions.

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For people who enjoy doing strikes though, even some of the shitty planets are worth having for those, or for the raids that take place there. IO is garbage, but losing Pyramidion is terrible. It's one of the few legit great strikes.

 

[Strakt]

Ehh doesn't matter as long as they add new shit.

 

[Holundrian]

Destiny players don't seem to mind so you can't really say anything. It's their money. If Bungie is able to take advantage of that they will.

 

[Faenix1]

Everything since the "break up" with Activision is why I really regret buying Destiny 2.

F2P version should of been a separate thing, let me play DESTINY 2 if I choose. Not that butchering that is F2P.

Now removing content I paid for, even if it's old and boring, is just.. not something I can get behind.

 

[Skittles]

OP i hope you have 2000 hours in D2 or else you cant criticize this move

 

[Trup1aya]

Destiny's business model has been shit since inception. I dropped it back in D1 when I was asked to pay the price of a bundle for the one DLC I was missing and the daily strikes only contained content I didn't have.

Fuck bungie. I can't believe this is the same company that fought tooth and nail to get MS to make halo DLC free...

 

[platocplx]

This wasn't their plan from the launch of D2. Their plan back then was to release sequels as outlined in their contractual obligation to Activision.

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this is kind of why they shouldve just went with a D3 than try to salvage this, maybe this actually fixes things but i got burned enough by them i wont be returning any time soon and i put so many hours into both up until it went F2P

 

[Sutton Dagger]

So with all the stuff they are removing, what new content are they introducing this year with the paid expansion?

 

[Deleted member 11976]

Fair warning: I'm a member of Era's D2 community.

As someone who's been playing since D1, I think this is the smart move. This is D3 without us losing all of our gear and weapons. (Sunsetting is another topic altogether, I'm aware.) If this lets them fulfill the "evolving universe" goal they've set out for, then that's great. Maybe we'll see the Cosmodrome and how its changed since the SIVA Crisis circa Rise of Iron. And eventually when things are pulled out of the DCV, maybe they'll be changed and updated. We're on the cusp of a major Destiny universe development so I'd not be surprised — after over 6 years the Darkness is finally arriving.

If this also results in less Exotics being shipped in a broken state (ex Raiju's Harness) then I'm all for it. The file size is huge too, so I'd be happy if this reduces the average update size.

Furthermore, this should allow them to offer a much better New Player Experience (focuses in the returning D1 Cosmodrome Patrol Zone when Beyond Light drops) and prune stuff that ultimately isn't going to be relevant anymore. Players come into the D2 OT and constantly are confused about what to do/where to go (and I don't blame them) so this should be an improvement for newer F2P players.

Lastly, I'm going to miss certain spots like Mars, but if you say you're going to miss all of this stuff but aren't taking the extended amount of time before Beyond Light to catch up on anything you missed, were you ever going to play the stuff you're upset about being vaulted? Bungie has been communicating what the DCV would mean for months and months now, so this isn't new to any of us who are active players.