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Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,832
It's ridiculous that even a fit and healthy 74 year old could be made to work due to not having a pension entitlement but when you combine it with the Tories' dream of declaring the whole population fit to work regardless of physical condition I hate think how horrendous it would be for elderly people not in great health.

Most people working now won't be getting much from their occupational pensions to make up for it in future either given the death of DB schemes.
 
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,086
Given current life expectancy, a state pension age of 75 would basically mean you're expected to only get half a decade out of it

Bit shit that
 
Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,204
It's funny because most people I know are still working despite getting state pension since it wasn't enough, so really this just sends more people into poverty too.

Protome said:
I'd have to imagine raising the state pension to 75 is really just scrapping it for most people (although admittedly, I'm a guy from Scotland, so even hitting my 60s is some farfetched dream so maybe my view on how long people live is schewed lol.)
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Yeah my dad didn't make it to 75 and neither of my grandads made it much past, so I don't think it'd be uncommon to just never get a state pension or get very little. Which is ridiculous really.
 
Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,832
JonnyDBrit said:
Given current life expectancy, a state pension age of 75 would basically mean you're expected to only get half a decade out of it

Bit shit that
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It's grim but not quite that grim to be fair. If you reach age 75 you are expected to live another 12-13 years on average.

Edited to add I suspect you'd find that comes down once you essentially start forcing people to work until they're 75 though.
 
Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,204
Brotherhood93 said:
It's grim but not quite that grim to be fair. If you reach age 75 you are expected to live another 12-13 years on average.

Edited to add I suspect you'd find that comes down once you essentially start forcing people to work until they're 75 though.
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What stats are you looking for to give that? Current life expectancy is around 82ish. Of course gender/area etc are factors. In the past 20 years it's only gone up about 5 years.
 
Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,832
Zafir said:
What stats are you looking for to give that? Current life expectancy is around 82ish. Of course gender/area etc are factors. In the past 20 years it's only gone up about 5 years.
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Life expectancy calculator:

Life expectancy calculator - Office for National Statistics

Enter your age and sex in our calculator to find out your life expectancy, and the likelihood of you living to be 100 years old.
www.ons.gov.uk

It isn't about general life expectancy as this includes people dying young. Statistically if you have already reached age 75 your chances of living beyond average life expectancy is much higher. Since the state pension would only come into payment once you reach age 75 this means it would be paid for around 12-13 years on average.
 
Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,204
Brotherhood93 said:
Life expectancy calculator:

Life expectancy calculator - Office for National Statistics

Enter your age and sex in our calculator to find out your life expectancy, and the likelihood of you living to be 100 years old.
www.ons.gov.uk

It isn't about general life expectancy as this includes people dying young. Statistically if you have already reached age 75 your chances of living beyond average life expectancy is much higher. Since the state pension would only come into payment once you reach age 75 this means it would be paid for around 12-13 years on average.
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Fair enough, I was using ONS but was using their general data.

But yeah, between being forced to work, and also the general freefall in services quality I'm not sure how that holds up, lol.
 
Motorcycle Dork

Motorcycle Dork

Member
Jun 24, 2019
6,482
Gareth said:

View: https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1785632846251475018
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What a coincidence!
news.sky.com

Poorer people dying increasingly younger than richer people as 'dismal' life expectancy gap grows, report finds

"Britain is a poor, sick country, getting sicker, with a few rich and healthy people," says a professor - as a study revealed that inequality in life expectancy is growing across England.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

Poorer people dying increasingly younger than richer people as 'dismal' life expectancy gap grows, report finds

"Britain is a poor, sick country, getting sicker, with a few rich and healthy people," says a professor - as a study revealed that inequality in life expectancy is growing across England.
 
Snowman2

Snowman2

Member
Oct 28, 2017
63
Mr. Virus said:
Why are Novara platforming that clown?
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Because he already has a platform, he's an MP. Novara/Bastani is holding him to account, questioning him and being critical of what he has to say.

(I get the argument about platforming people if they're nobodies who would be irrelevant if the media stopped giving them air time, but that's not the case here)

Should journalists never interview anyone they disagree with? How do we even find out the extent to which we don't agree with them if people don't ask them questions?
 
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Gavin Robertson

Gavin Robertson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,353
Dundee, Scotland
All this talk of working to 75, but what jobs are they going to do? In my place we have a few folks at 65ish and they are literally counting the days to retirement. This is a non physically demanding role too.

Well just end up with millions of elderly unemployed, surely.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,321
Brotherhood93 said:
Most people working now won't be getting much from their occupational pensions to make up for it in future either given the death of DB schemes.
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This is a big one for me if you're an 'inbetweener' - the requirement for workplace auto enrollment has only been around a few years, and its not even that big a contribution required. Maybe enough if you start at 21 but if you're late you're fucked.

Then add on they removed DB by 'opening it to the market'while most public sector roles still have fairly generous DB schemes themselves.

My biggest worry is the flexibility. People aren't taught how to invest for retirement, so they won't have a fucking clue how to sensibly handle a biggish pot of money and it'll all be gone in their 70s. For me there should have been more emphasis on at least a protected annuinty option for those that want certainty. Yes you can buy one now on the open market but they aren't very attractive anymore
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,321
The US you can take your pension at 67, take less money early at 62 if you need it, or wait until 70 for better benefits. And it pays quite a bit more than the UK although does depend what you paid in - so kind of a DB scheme I think but government organised.

the ultra capitalist no safety net USA - we're on a race to the bottom of the pension pile
 
T002 Tyrant

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
9,110
I was just thinking what we need is a very left leaning Lib Dem party (requires new leadership) to provide some true opposition to Labour and Tories forcing Labour to become more left leaning in future elections. Just a shower thought really.
 
IpKaiFung

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,422
Wales
I don't think that will happen with the Lib Dems.

Their role in the electoral system is that of electoral wrecker. They reduce parliamentary majorities (not that this is a bad thing in and of itself) by targeting certain seats where labour or the conservatives control but where labour or conservatives aren't the second place party.

However, they are a completely vapid party as demonstrated by their spell in coalition. This is where they threw aside their principals for a couple of years in the driving seat.

Economically they are right wing and aligned with the economic orthodoxy of the last 40 odd years and I don't see that changing, especially with how much influence the orange bookers still have. Socially, they are ok but can you trust them following their coalition stint?

Back to your original question, it's a difficult one and there are no easy answers but the only thing you can try and do is make a difference locally, working in food banks, helping people navigate the benefit system etc.

Electoral politics is a sham and 2015 to 2019 made that quite evident when young people tried to make their voice heard through electoral means, only for it to get dismissed and slammed in their faces.
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,676
Snowman2 said:
Because he already has a platform, he's an MP. Novara/Bastani is holding him to account, questioning him and being critical of what he has to say.

(I get the argument about platforming people if they're nobodies who would be irrelevant if the media stopped giving them air time, but that's not the case here)

Should journalists never interview anyone they disagree with? How do we even find out the extent to which we don't agree with them if people don't ask them questions?
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Galloway is a fairly known entity by this point though, so I'm not sure what the value is in hosting him and having him spout his bile.

And in that clip at least he was getting fairly soft questions IMO. To his credit, Galloway can talk, and didn't seem to be struggling or flustered there while getting his digs in at the SNP and using "but the science!" to justify his bigotry.

If Bastani called him out on the latter afterwards, cool (I don't expect them to do so with the former cause lol, London centric AND they bring in fucking Conter for some Scottish related stuff). But it's not in what was shown there (and I don't use Twitter any more to go looking). Novara's front page having this doesn't really make me hold out hope with stuff like this: https://novaramedia.com/2024/05/01/...way-but-then-he-said-gay-people-arent-normal/ given how light the response in that video actually shown was.
 
Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,832
MrKlaw said:
This is a big one for me if you're an 'inbetweener' - the requirement for workplace auto enrollment has only been around a few years, and its not even that big a contribution required. Maybe enough if you start at 21 but if you're late you're fucked.

Then add on they removed DB by 'opening it to the market'while most public sector roles still have fairly generous DB schemes themselves.

My biggest worry is the flexibility. People aren't taught how to invest for retirement, so they won't have a fucking clue how to sensibly handle a biggish pot of money and it'll all be gone in their 70s. For me there should have been more emphasis on at least a protected annuinty option for those that want certainty. Yes you can buy one now on the open market but they aren't very attractive anymore
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Couldn't agree more. I think there's going to be a huge crisis in the future when people realise their Defined Contribution pots aren't going to cover their retirement needs. Or worse, retiring thinking they have a significant pension pot only to realise further down the line that this doesn't last as long as they expected.

It'll be interesting to see what the take up of Collective Defined Contribution schemes is like. So far Royal Mail is the only authorised scheme but expect it to be something a lot of the remaining DB schemes look to move towards going forward. Whether they prove to be any more beneficial than standard DC schemes I'm not sure but at least they would provide a regular lifetime income.
 
Krypta

Krypta

Member
Oct 29, 2017
233
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,216
Chesire, UK
On UNS that poll would leave the Tories with something like ~15 seats.

Of course UNS doesn't work well with huge voting shifts or smaller vote totals, because local variance matters way more for a party getting 15% of the vote than 50%, but it's still near-obliteration territory.
 
Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,832
I can't imagine heavy defeats today is going to do them much good either. Think there'll be a lot of discussions about replacing Sunak before the general election over the next week. Only positive for Sunak is a lot of senior Tories are standing down anyway so might not care too much but, even if they accept they will lose, the party is running out of time to turn it around to avoid a complete catastrophe.
 
Bony Manifesto

Bony Manifesto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,625
I wish the media didn't buy into the CCHQ-seeded narrative that as long as either Andy Street or Ben Houchen get re-elected, it'll be a positive result for the Tories and Sunak should be safe. Those are two candidates that are effectively running as independents (Andy Street especially: look at his website and you'd guess he was the Green candidate). So really, them confounding the national polling and winning should actually lend weight to the idea that Sunak is actively damaging their electoral chances.
 
Koukalaka

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,420
Scotland
Gareth

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,587
Norn Iron

View: https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1786263371995562195
Sir John Curtis says that the results in the local elections so far are 'not far short' of catastrophic for the Tories

They are 'one of the worst if not the worst' Conservative performances in local elections for 40 years

He says that Tories are losing half the seats they are contesting

Blackpool South represents third biggest swing in post-war election history
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View: https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1786262072071709119
 
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