Kind of does under monarchy and at a time where equality was a privilege rather the a right.
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WSJ: Germany Struggles With an Unfamiliar Form of Anti-Semitism
- Thread starter vinnykappa
- Start date
Kind of does under monarchy and at a time where equality was a privilege rather the a right.
They're more vulnerable, its a critical time when developing ones values systems.
This applies to kids in general. Not just to german kids specifically.
Doesn't surprise me. I see the same things in France working at a school with a high immigrant population from muslim countries, kids too young to even know what any of it means giving shit to jewish families. It's sad.
The genesis of Nazism started in Germany, they should know their country's history. They are also within travel distance of death camps and as it was said in the article, they already send kids to some of these as a reminder of what happened.
I am all for educating german kids on their country's history. I have personally gone through the german education system and have been to several death camps. There is overall a huge emphasis on critically reviewing what happened during the reign of the nazis.
Honestly, I don't think lack of education is the problem here.
As the articles pointed out, antisemitic views seem to be quite popular among muslim communities. I think the problem is rather the lack of ways to communicate with these communities.
I have probably misunderstood you. You just made it seem like as if antisemitism is generally still ingrained in today's german society.
New anti-semite incident in Berlin (Prenzlauer Berg):
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/ber...lmholtzplatz-mit-guertel-verpruegelt-30033876 (german)
Shorter NYT article in english: https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/04/18/world/europe/ap-eu-germany-anti-semitism.html
Isreali, wearing a Kippa got attacked by a guy with a belt on the street (saying Yahudi - Jew)... and that district is not a problematic social area. Housing is rather expensive there but still many tourists.
Youtube:
Government has to crack down on this shit in full force. Zero tolerance.
I you think that warrants a new thread, feel free to make one.
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/ber...lmholtzplatz-mit-guertel-verpruegelt-30033876 (german)
Shorter NYT article in english: https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/04/18/world/europe/ap-eu-germany-anti-semitism.html
Isreali, wearing a Kippa got attacked by a guy with a belt on the street (saying Yahudi - Jew)... and that district is not a problematic social area. Housing is rather expensive there but still many tourists.
Youtube:
Government has to crack down on this shit in full force. Zero tolerance.
I you think that warrants a new thread, feel free to make one.
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Bad Education, putting these anti semitic people to begin with in the same area, cutting costs at the Police, Courts and state attorneys leads to this. No surprise. It will only get worse since the gouverment doesn´t plan to change any of these things.
It´s a housemade problem one that has been warned about but as well as the warnings for the then coming refugee crisis it got ignored.
It´s a housemade problem one that has been warned about but as well as the warnings for the then coming refugee crisis it got ignored.
That's only a very recent thing. My school classes never took us to concentration camps and tried to skirt around WW2 as a topic in history as long as they possibly could.
Graduated in '98, for what it's worth.
We have a *much* higher responsibility to work against Antisemitism than any other nation on this planet. It comes with heritage.
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Abitur or 10th grade?
I made my Abitur in 2005 and we had this topic nearly every year. But every year different aspects of course.
We all know the type of guy who attacked. 2nd/3rd generation Turkish migrants. waiving their religion flag high but are only parrots who only do what they have been told in those little and uncontrolled alley mosques.
Personally, I wouldn't see them as immigrants, but they identify as those.
I went to a comprehensive school as a kid and we had many of them in my and other classes. Their uncles and other near persons told them so many bullshit "jew" facts and they believed it. It's unbelievable. Its not only bad education.
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Abi, I'm that old. I feel that before the 2000s it really was a topic most teachers were highly uncomfortable with, at least the history teachers I had were. It didn't matter to me, personally, because I would have ran laps around my teachers in terms of WW2 knowledge, even back then, since I'd invested a lot of time reading about it and coming to terms with the terrible heritage of my country.
Not that easy.
1. You can't deport german citizens. This isn't just an issue among refugees but also among immigrants who've been here for 2 or 3 generations.
2. You can't deport to unsafe countries. This one is obvious.
3. Antisemitism is technically not a crime, you can't deport people for their believes.
4. Even if they commit antisemitic crimes deportation can't be used as punishment because the law requires same punishment for same crimes. The deportation argument is a tricky one to make.
Why not? Sending them to be with their own kind(AKA other violent people) sounds just about right
(I'm talking only about those that use violence,of course)
Well then you can also argue that there should be the death sentence for any violent crime.
Edit: When it comes to Education and WW2 i graduated 2009 we went to Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz, Bergen Belsen in middle school and later again and Auschwitz on a Poland trip, 11th grade.
My brother went to Bergen Belsen as well, he is 7 years older than me, i grew up in a city with lots of immigrants, high unemployment and a high crime rate from youths. City put then loads of money into schools, housing, invested in infrastructure, rebuild lots of places, attracted companies and so on.
Now the city is below the state average when it comes to crime rate.
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You are not wrong, sadly you have to deal with humans, who happen to always, almost always repeat their mistakes. Humans never learn anything.
Its against the constitution and basic humanity.
Being a criminal doesn't strip you of your human rights.
was pondering about making a thread for this, but I'm not sure if it's all that interesting for Era
http://m.dw.com/en/echo-prize-winners-return-awards-amid-controversy/a-43417945
http://m.dw.com/en/echo-prize-winners-return-awards-amid-controversy/a-43417945
it should be pointed out that the awards are given for records sold
Yeah that's not just Germany. And that's also a big reason why right-winged parties are getting a lot of attention in European countries. Some Muslims that come to Europe aren't doing themselves a favor with not raising their kids to be liberal and peaceful (just like some Europeans themselves don't). Women are being raped and very often verbally abused (for being a whore). Gay people are being molested on a regular basis and Jewish people must even fear for their lives. I've never voted for right-winged parties and i never will (and, i'm convinced most muslims are peaceful people). But this IS a problem.
One problem is that they all live in these concentrated areas. That's never a good way imo.
One problem is that they all live in these concentrated areas. That's never a good way imo.
It also depends on your location. If there's one close to where you live, it seems all the more likely. I didn't say they weren't ever done, I said "Every school class usually takes a trip to a concentration camp" is a very recent thing.
I grew up in NRW and we went to a concentration camp in 1996 during a class trip to Berlin and so did everyone I knew. WW2 was never a topic that teachers seemed to be uncomfortable to address in my experience.
But I think that every school class going is unlikely even today, epecially when they're far away from the camp sites and maybe in areas with poorer people, they might not be able to afford a trip that far.
Well, I grew up in NRW, and we never even took a class trip to Berlin, let alone got anywhere close to a concentration camp. Hell, we didn't even visit the Manhmal on Tolouser Allee here in Düsseldorf. Maybe my schools just sucked ass, but it really didn't seem as frequent back then, as it is now.
I definitely agree. Especially because we're talking about violent incidents, not just hate speech (which is also harmful, don't get me wrong). It's no use trying to change their way of thinking, most of the time it's already deeply rooted and passed down from generation to generation.
Those radical muslims, in this case, are a lost cause and should be deported. What reason is there for them to live in a country they so blatantly hate?
What a piece of shit.
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory Derail
Deporting is pushing your problems on another country. You don't care about anything but your own country?
Also a big issue is the lack of healthy discussion on this subject in Europe. Especially Germany and France where criticism on Israel is taboo. If a normal discussion is to be had then it is easier to convince people away from the radical. If the only people that don't scold you for what you see as an ethical stance are racists then you will mirror them.
It is not me making that connection it is also pro-Israeli organisations (not to be confused with Jewish rights orgs, I applaud those) that jump on every opportunity to use (justified) outrage on anti semitic incidents to sneak in pro Israel policies. See the incident in Amsterdam after which political parties were tricked to sign a declaration on anti semitism that just happened to also declare anti Israel stances as such.
The hypocrisy is not without cost and it is showing when you have people who are not in on the pro Israel hivemind.
No eurocentric method of tackling this will work, there are many with anti-semitic views because of the conflict that are ignorant on this subject and influenced by conspiracy theories etc.
I think the thought of EVEN MORE WWII milking solving this is showing a lack of understanding on the problem at hand. You can't shame people into being pro-Israel because Europe shat on the Jewish community for centuries ending in genocide and felt bad about it. This target group does not feel responsible for that and WWII is being milked enough, especially in the superficial way (no political analysis).
So teach the existence of legitimate positions (critical on Israel but not on Jews as a people) so people can actually move into them.
Edit: and even I am now just focusing on the migrants, I was the only brown guy in class and it was the white Dutch kids that came with the Jew jokes and Holocaust mockery.
Also a big issue is the lack of healthy discussion on this subject in Europe. Especially Germany and France where criticism on Israel is taboo. If a normal discussion is to be had then it is easier to convince people away from the radical. If the only people that don't scold you for what you see as an ethical stance are racists then you will mirror them.
It is not me making that connection it is also pro-Israeli organisations (not to be confused with Jewish rights orgs, I applaud those) that jump on every opportunity to use (justified) outrage on anti semitic incidents to sneak in pro Israel policies. See the incident in Amsterdam after which political parties were tricked to sign a declaration on anti semitism that just happened to also declare anti Israel stances as such.
The hypocrisy is not without cost and it is showing when you have people who are not in on the pro Israel hivemind.
No eurocentric method of tackling this will work, there are many with anti-semitic views because of the conflict that are ignorant on this subject and influenced by conspiracy theories etc.
I think the thought of EVEN MORE WWII milking solving this is showing a lack of understanding on the problem at hand. You can't shame people into being pro-Israel because Europe shat on the Jewish community for centuries ending in genocide and felt bad about it. This target group does not feel responsible for that and WWII is being milked enough, especially in the superficial way (no political analysis).
So teach the existence of legitimate positions (critical on Israel but not on Jews as a people) so people can actually move into them.
Edit: and even I am now just focusing on the migrants, I was the only brown guy in class and it was the white Dutch kids that came with the Jew jokes and Holocaust mockery.
User Banned (1 Day): Hostility
It's not a profound issue and you're a fucking liar to pretend otherwise.
FUCK OUT OF HERE
AGAIN MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN KILLING JEWISH PEOPLE FOR FUCKING CENTURIES. STOP TRYING TO DEFLECT FROM IT.
NO FUCKING ONE WOULD TOLERATE THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT THAT THE ONUS IS ON A MINORITY TO NOT BE HATED BUT FUCKING ERA TOLERANCE FOR ANTISEMITISM IS FUCKING DISGUSTING.
FUCK THAT AND ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE THAT CAN FUCK OFF.
FUCK THAT AND ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE THAT CAN FUCK OFF.
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That post is so cynical imho and full of hyperbole.
Critizising Israel is not taboo. There is a normal discussion, that kid in the video is not taking part in it. It is you that is making the connection at least in this thread.
We do teach legitimate positions! And WWII Milking?!?!?! Are you kidding me?
I supprt Aaron in being mad. Your post is soft-spoken but equally outrageous.
Fuck that. Fucking blaming Jewish rights group for intolerance because folks really think these fucks are doing this because of them?
How the FUCK does that make any sense when the people doing this are recent immigrants and kids? The fucking ADL and other groups aren't on their mailing list so I'm calling it out.
But let a mother fuck blame gang violence for racism and people would RIGHTLY call that out.
Y'all just got to let that hate for Jewish people out don't you
How the FUCK does that make any sense when the people doing this are recent immigrants and kids? The fucking ADL and other groups aren't on their mailing list so I'm calling it out.
But let a mother fuck blame gang violence for racism and people would RIGHTLY call that out.
Y'all just got to let that hate for Jewish people out don't you
a) If the problem is a minority of a minority being a physical threat to a other minority group, deporting them prevents them from being a threat to them. As a noncitizen you are a guest in a home, and violent behavior is absolutely a valid reason to kick you out of it. (The reason ICE is so terrible is that they're going after people for effectively Parking Tickets and not just the violent subset.)
b) You talk about "the subject" in your second sentence. One would assume this is antisemitism given the thread and the reason for the thread bump.
But it's not. Your next sentence has you launching into a rant on Israel. Followed by 4 paragraphs of it. And then a deflection stating that the "real problem" was the white kids, to try and counter the statistics with an anecdote.
person vents frustration about anti semitism
other person tells them to calm down
huh
Why do people in this thread constantly derail by mentioning Israel? I am a German Jew. I have nothing to do with Israel. Neither does anyone I know. This is just anti-semitism. They hate us. Nothing new. We do have discussion about the crimes the state of Israel commits against Palestine. Most anti-semites do not give a damn about Palestine.
TBH, I was close to asking the same. Not because his frustration isn't justified (it is), but because I don't want him to eat a ban over this. :/
Can you tell us how your experience until now was? Are there many encounters with neonazis?
I've never met a german jew. Or at least I don't know that I've met one. My town seems to have no community anymore.
sure the implications about era as a forum and by extension the mods and administrators was problematic
I just took issue with the whole minority expresses frustration, minority is told to calm down thing. you'll note the poster that responded didn't express any issues with the stuff about era but instead about how anti semitism isn't black or white (ok?), how it's a very old problem (no shit..), and that caps lock aren't required and to calm down. so while there are issues with that post the poster who responded didn't care about any of that and was just being insensitive.
I believe Donos probably didn't read the post Aaron responded to carefully.
Yeah, that's why I ultimately decided against it. It's not my place to tell someone to calm down when they're directly affected by the issue they're venting about and I'm not.
That said, I do find the "Deport them!" comments absolutely tone deaf and unhelpful. Just because they're muslim doesn't mean they're German. You can't deport Germans, no matter how "Muslim" they are. I hate that sort of association and it comes from right wingers almost 90% of the time.
I grew up in a small town in NRW and my family is not that religious. I did not have much trouble growing up except for the occasional threat against the synagogue in the nearest city or a few strange phone calls at my father's business. I am pretty sure those all were from neo-nazis. Things took a turn for the worse when I moved to Berlin to attend university. I got spit on and called a "Jewish whore" once when I left the synagogue. Again, this was a white man. You hear stories like this occasionally from your friends like a few years ago some neo-nazis published a list with all Jewish businesses schools/daycares in Berlin. Then you have the all time favorite threats like threatening to burn down a synagogue or someone's corner store. You sort of just live with it.
So what's your solution? You may find the right's solutions to be morally deplorable, but they actually exist.
The European left seems to have nothing to offer.
"Deport all the people I don't like to Syria" is unworkable and illegal. So not a solution at all.
"The European left"? That one's raising more than one eyebrow.
It also assumes that all antisemitic muslims have to be foreigners, which is, IMO, absolutely racist.
yeah I agree with that for sure. honestly I have no easy answers in regards to this stuff. I'm also american so I'm even more out of my element with what's going on over there. even deporting immigrants feels wrong because one of the main reasons they're likely to hold these kinds of views is where they were born and the ideology that was forced upon them since birth. you can't just change that kind of stuff overnight. though obviously the first priority should be protecting the victims of these hate crimes so in that sense if deportation is necessary then it is what it is.
I didn't say it was a good idea. It's an actual idea that people respond to, however, as opposed to nothing.
Edit: And just to be clear, the post I was originally responding to was responding to a post saying to deport immigrants who commit violent hate crimes, not "deport everyone I don't like." Although I did bring general right-wing views into my response, so I understand the reaction.
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Just pointing out that it is the same lingo you are often using, just the other side of the coin.