Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

[Redcrayon]

Again it depends what you are talking about.
You are talking way to broadly here. I mean if you are talking about camera angles, then I agree.

But with the other two? Yeah you can make some baller ass character designs with skimpy clothing or a pin up pose, it just has to be good character design first and foremost.

It is just an extreme perspective to take and, one based on a couple of examples. The only strong cases of really bad female character design recently mentioned in this thread are Quiet, Star Ocean Witch,Pyra, Cidny, and maybe Ann( but Ann actual design is great, her personality just dosent gel well with it).

I keep seeing these examples, and the others given are either really weak (someone mentioned Injustice 2 and Mortal Kombat X,like really?) or really subjective (2B and Bayonetta).

I feel like since this is the internet, everyone has to be extremely hyperbolic, with absolutely no nuance. It's either "only put this smut in porn" on one side and "I want tiddies" on the other, it's just So fucking inane .

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How about Dana from Ys VIII as food for discussion?

Now, I absolutely loved Ys VIII, put 50+ hours in and like Dana as a character- she's fun to be around.

However, what I find really weird is the plate-armoured panties and random plates on her hips (perfectly placed to direct any deflected sword swipe down onto her exposed skin). I mean, she's a priestess from a culture that doesn't wear much. That's cool. But the design itself still wants to include scraps of armour, but only to draw attention to the lack of it, that's what I find a bit odd.

The curved blades are cool- her fighting style are like a whirlwind and they present a distinct change from much of the rest of the cast's quasi-European weaponry. But the skimpy see-through scraps of cloth that go from her belt to her shins- why? I can't see them surviving one moment of combat.

If the outfit is 'ritual dance priestess gear', that's cool, but does she really wear it when exploring a primeval world? I laughed when I finally unlocked a new outfit at the tailors for her, hoping for something a bit more practical, but it was only a variant in red and black instead! :D

I actually quite like her sandals/boots combined with the skimpy outfit, they look like comfortable, wearable footwear even if you're a scantily clad primeval priestess. However, I think it's the oddities of those pointless scraps of cloth when fighting and pointless armour pieces designed to dig into her groin that bother me more.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Speaking of camera angles, let's take a moment to recall how FFX introduced us to some of its major characters...!

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What sucks about FF10 is that those felt especially out of place due to the rest of the game not being like that at all. I could be wrong, but the game is fairly good in its portrayal of women and I even find most designs quite tasteful (even Lulu's, although IMO it doesn't fit her that much). Hell, Yuna is one of my favorite game characters ever.

And Rikku's age, lol, I had no idea, I assumed they were all adults. It's only gotten worse because at least she looked like a regular person, now it's so easy to see infantilized girls with adult bodies and ones that pretty much look like they're 10 and still barely wearing anything. Japan's sexualization of minors is disgusting as fuck.

Also! I never see anyone talking about this, but FF10 is kind of an example of those "we should get more sexualized men too" solutions. Have you noticed how like 90% of the NPCs in that game are barely wearing anything in that game? Sure it doesn't reflect in the cast, but almost everyone in Spyra dresses like an eccentric striper priest lol.

 

[HypedBeast]

Yeah and I'd still like to see actual teenager and preteens instead of this weird jump from child to adult we get (or worse, child but with breasts).

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It depends, if it's suppose to be really down to earth like Hey Arnold, or a game like Persona, then sure I agree.

But for superhero and over the top anime, having your characters look older, but being your target demographic age just appeal better to them (I always liked how Bleach characters looked kind of like adults, despite being around my age).

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

How about Dana from Ys VIII as food for discussion?

Now, I absolutely loved Ys VIII, put 50+ hours in and like Dana as a character- she's fun to be around.

However, what I find really weird is the plate-armoured panties and random plates on her hips (perfectly placed to direct any deflected sword swipe down onto her exposed skin). I mean, she's a priestess from a culture that doesn't wear much. That's cool. But the design itself still wants to include scraps of armour, but only to draw attention to the lack of it, that's what I find a bit odd.

The curved blades are cool- her fighting style are like a whirlwind and they present a distinct change from much of the rest of the cast's quasi-European weaponry. But the skimpy see-through scraps of cloth that go from her belt to her shins- why? I can't see them surviving one moment of combat.

If the outfit is 'ritual dance priestess gear', that's cool, but does she really wear it when exploring a primeval world? I laughed when I finally unlocked a new outfit at the tailors for her, hoping for something a bit more practical, but it was only a variant in red and black instead! :D

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Personally i like this design a lot, i don't know, it's elegent, and in fantasy i don't mind irrealist clothing as long as it's consistant with the rest of the game (everyone in their society dress like that, including men)

This one doesn't bother me in comparison to something like ivy that is just vulgar and tasteless

 

[HypedBeast]

How about Dana from Ys VIII as food for discussion?

Now, I absolutely loved Ys VIII, put 50+ hours in and like Dana as a character- she's fun to be around.

However, what I find really weird is the plate-armoured panties and random plates on her hips (perfectly placed to direct any deflected sword swipe down onto her exposed skin). I mean, she's a priestess from a culture that doesn't wear much. That's cool. But the design itself still wants to include scraps of armour, but only to draw attention to the lack of it, that's what I find a bit odd.

The curved blades are cool- her fighting style are like a whirlwind and they present a distinct change from much of the rest of the cast's quasi-European weaponry. But the skimpy see-through scraps of cloth that go from her belt to her shins- why? I can't see them surviving one moment of combat.

If the outfit is 'ritual dance priestess gear', that's cool, but does she really wear it when exploring a primeval world? I laughed when I finally unlocked a new outfit at the tailors for her, hoping for something a bit more practical, but it was only a variant in red and black instead! :D

I actually quite like her sandals/boots combined with the skimpy outfit, they look like comfortable, wearable footwear even if you're a scantily clad primeval priestess. However, I think it's the oddities of those pointless scraps of cloth when fighting and pointless armour pieces designed to dig into her groin that bother me more.

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That design is motherfucking atrocious.
That is straight up a clusterfuck of accessories with no clear shillouete, no fashionable choices made to the attire, and by god it just looks like the artist started drawing her and never fucking stopped.

I mean I've never played Ys, but just judging her from a design perspective, that is a big mess.

 

[Redcrayon]

Personally i like this design a lot, i don't know, it's elegent, and in fantasy i don't mind irrealist clothing as long as it's consistant with the rest of the game (everyone in their society dress like that, including men)

This one doesn't bother me in comparison to something like ivy that is just vulgar

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Agree with you that the society doesn't wear much, but while the guys match the exposed-midriff design aesthetic, they don't go in for attention-grabbing plate-armoured codpieces combined with a lack of armour elsewhere.

I agree that it isn't vulgar or anything, I'm not raising it as 'this is teh worst!' but more 'this is the last JRPG I played and I thought this was relevant to the discussion and one we hadn't talked about yet'. Perhaps my thoughts are more about bemusement in the impracticality of the armour scraps. I like oddball fantasy art too, but feel that it helps build the fantasy world when an outfit makes the wearer look, if not comfortable, but at least not like they are likely to cripple themselves or trip themselves up if they try running and fighting in it.

 

[Einbroch]

That design is motherfucking atrocious.
That is straight up a clusterfuck of accessories with no clear shillouete, no fashionable choices made to the attire, and by god it just looks like the artist started drawing her and never fucking stopped.

I mean I've never played Ys, but just judging her from a design perspective, that is a big mess.

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Ys is to flowy straps as Final Fantasy is to belts.

 

[Xaszatm]

Lmao

I'm insulting the relationship of a complete stranger because they're unable to play a JRPG in front of their partner

Must be really hard to find media to consume together if the slightest sexualisation is an issue in your relationship.

I mean hey, if so, I'm pretty sure that's not the game's problem, or a problem to vent in a thread like this one.

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Yep, that's the reason people are complain about Pyra. Yep, because they secretly have terrible relationships. Yep. Absolutely. At this point, the fans have done more than a decent enough job of turning people away from this series than the fanbait ever did.

 

[Dary]

Also the comment about JRPGs is problematic for me. It is relevant to this topic, there is probably a higher degree of random sexualization present in them, which is rightfully criticized. However saying that JRPGs have a problem with not having well thought out characters(compared to other games) is absurd to me.

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It's about the characters existing outside the confines of the plot.

I think one of the better examples of characterisation in JRPGs is - ironically, given how so many people criticise it - FF8. The characters exist outside of the plot. They do their own thing, have their own lives. A lot of it isn't in-your-face stuff, but that's kinda the point.

On the other side of the coin, however, you have games where characters just stand around waiting for you to add them to your party. They never do anything outside of the story, away from the player's gaze.

Cindy is a perfect example: she literally serves no real purpose outside of being "the mechanic". She has no life outside of servicing the party (player), and that makes it much easier to objectify her. She's a tool, a gameplay mechanic (oho!), not a person.

 

[Dipper145]

I try my best to avoid games that do the things that OP has an issue with. I find them kind of weird and uncomfortable to play, but it occurs in so many games it can be difficult to avoid. Although avoiding certain genres of games / parts of gaming culture, like anime-esque games, helps a lot, it's still present in many other games.

Jeeze that mod edit though on the OP... I get the frustration of having the same viewpoints repeated over and over from a male user base, but yeah, wow.

 

[Ferrs]

I try my best to avoid games that do the things that OP has an issue with. I find them kind of weird and uncomfortable to play, but it occurs in so many games it can be difficult to avoid. Although avoiding certain genres of games / parts of gaming culture, like anime-esque games, helps a lot, it's still present in many other games.

Jeeze that mod edit though on the OP... I get the frustration of having the same viewpoints repeated over and over from a male user base, but yeah, wow.

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I dont see what's bad with the mod edit. :/

 

[Twig]

I wouldn't object to a college game, particularly a college Persona, especially given some of the topics this series seems to really want to get into. Plus the changes college life would bring to that schedule with classes not always being the same time, more freedom given to students, more opportunities of night life opening up, it would open up a lot of possibilities. Plus, if they are going down this fanservice extreme route, at least the characters would be legal this time.

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I thought Persona 5 took place in college up to about two weeks before release when I was informed otherwise.

It would have been a much better game if it DID take place in college.

Though I somehow doubt the issues with Ann would've been handled any better.

 

[Xaszatm]

I thought Persona 5 took place in college up to about two weeks before release when I was informed otherwise.

It would have been a much better game if it DID take place in college.

Though I somehow doubt the issues with Ann would've been handled any better.

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Oh yeah, what the game does to Ann is disgusting no matter how old she is.

 

[HypedBeast]

Oh yeah, what the game does to Ann is disgusting no matter how old she is.

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Which really is a damn shame cause her outfit and her persona deaign are actually really cool (plus she is like the only Phantom Thief costume with a diffrent color besides black).
If they had rewritten some parts later on I think she would be a much better character.

 

[lusca_bueno]

The biggest problem I see when it comes to sexism, is how it is deeply rooted in our society, in our own culture. There is nothing wrong about sexual appeal, a few characters will obviously have this as a concept, some people in the real world live their sexual persona in a much higher intensity than others, it's natural, take Bayonetta for example. What's not natural is how there's a PATTERN in gaming, in which women are almost always represented with this sexual persona, and men are always represented as the powerful bad-ass being that get things done. The message is pretty clear: it is supposed to make hetero teenager boys feel empowered over these digitized women, and this is even clearer in Japanese media, that accurately replicates the image of these [not socially standard beautiful] teenager boys, often surrounded by a harem of [socially standard] beautiful women.

At the end of the day, selling sexism is also about empowerment... of the insecure male figure. Which is empowered enough in media compared to women, right?

How can gaming be an inclusive space to men and women alike, when you have this kind of stance, in which women are normally featured in bikini armor clinging to the power of male dependable protagonists? The problem is not in sexualizing characters, this also exists in the real world, the problem is in the PATTERN of sexualizing women almost as a requirement, and creating this gap in how a female is represented and how a male is represented as standards.

 

[a harmless rabbit]

I will say that a lot of people don't give Japanese female characters enough credit for their characterization. Yes, the camera angles and outfits can be among the worst in games (and TV), but they also tend to be full characters besides that. Sure, they also often fall into common tropes, but... so do most characters in general.

I dunno. I watch a lot of anime, and am very frequently bothered by otherwise-awesome female characters being brought down by creepy camera angles and out of place outfits.

That's not to say they can't be objectified, because of course they can, and frequently are. But I think Japanese media often gets a bad rap when it comes to characterization of its women. It is a fair and expected bad rap, due to the gross presentation, but a bad rap nonetheless.

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This is an extremely fair point, in my mind. Anime has an extreme problem with design and camerawork on a more than regular basis, but the actual characterization of women is very frequently on point, and the type of rightfully criticized archetypal moe absurdity where every female character has an "Uguu~"-esque catchphrase and conducts herself like an invalid largely fell out of vogue a very long time ago, even in trashier and more pandery shows. Anime has a lot of problems with its treatment and framing of women, but I do think criticism of it can be a bit reductive at times, especially from those with only a passing interest or no interest in the medium.

It's pretty fucked, no doubt about that. I usually just try to head-canon it into they're all adults anyway.

...Though, that's harder to do when they're high school students. JK THEY'RE IN COLLEGE???? okay that doesn't work so well...

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This isn't that different from western media--primetime soaps aimed at teenagers tend to have twenty-somethings playing characters significantly younger and engaging in behavior that you wouldn't want to see onscreen out of people who weren't twenty-somethings. The fact that Riverdale featured KJ Apa and Camilla Mendes engaging in a fade to black shower sex scene a few episodes ago while playing characters who are 15-16 year old sophomores in high school comes to mind. This is a pretty pervasive societal problem more or less globally.

It's about the characters existing outside the confines of the plot.

I think one of the better examples of characterisation in JRPGs is - ironically, given how so many people criticise it - FF8. The characters exist outside of the plot. They do their own thing, have their own lives. A lot of it isn't in-your-face stuff, but that's kinda the point.

On the other side of the coin, however, you have games where characters just stand around waiting for you to add them to your party. They never do anything outside of the story, away from the player's gaze.

Cindy is a perfect example: she literally serves no real purpose outside of being "the mechanic". She has no life outside of servicing the party (player), and that makes it much easier to objectify her. She's a tool, a gameplay mechanic (oho!), not a person.

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I love me some JRPGs, but as a person who tries to hunt down stuff with more nuanced, developed, and realistic characters, I can count on one hand the number of series I can actually say routinely give the impression that the characters didn't poof into existence just in time to join the party and run through their story arc (sometimes in the opposite order) and then do nothing but quip periodically for the rest of the game. Running through the entire eight man party while everyone condemns an antagonist in line so that the whole group gets a chance to speak isn't a replacement for characterization. I have a particular love of games that show the characters during downtime, eating meals, talking about food and leisure activities, and generally giving a sense that they tangibly exist in the world, and it's surprisingly rare once you start paying attention.

EDIT: Spelled a name wrong.

 

[MaskedNdi]

That's...not what "making characters feel more like real people" means. It has nothing to do with them being "serious, movielike characters". Rather, it's about them coming across as rounded, developed personalities - people who have a life "outside the game", if you will.

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Yes, absolutely. Whether you're telling an urban fantasy story, a distant-future sci-fi story, or a wacky, cartoony tale, I want to be able to believe that your characters are people that exist outside of this story. If your primary goal is "design a sexy character" and not "create a three-dimensional character," you're probably going to run into problems. Why does Ivy, a noble-born warrior that has dedicated her life to her quest, fight in thigh highs and a skimpy unitard? Why does Quiet, an assassin that breathes through her skin, wear an unsupportive bikini while covering her legs in a non-breathable material. There's not an answer beyond "it looks hot," and that actively detracts from the characters and their stories.

How about Dana from Ys VIII as food for discussion?

Now, I absolutely loved Ys VIII, put 50+ hours in and like Dana as a character- she's fun to be around.

However, what I find really weird is the plate-armoured panties and random plates on her hips (perfectly placed to direct any deflected sword swipe down onto her exposed skin). I mean, she's a priestess from a culture that doesn't wear much. That's cool. But the design itself still wants to include scraps of armour, but only to draw attention to the lack of it, that's what I find a bit odd.

The curved blades are cool- her fighting style are like a whirlwind and they present a distinct change from much of the rest of the cast's quasi-European weaponry. But the skimpy see-through scraps of cloth that go from her belt to her shins- why? I can't see them surviving one moment of combat.

If the outfit is 'ritual dance priestess gear', that's cool, but does she really wear it when exploring a primeval world? I laughed when I finally unlocked a new outfit at the tailors for her, hoping for something a bit more practical, but it was only a variant in red and black instead! :D

I actually quite like her sandals/boots combined with the skimpy outfit, they look like comfortable, wearable footwear even if you're a scantily clad primeval priestess. However, I think it's the oddities of those pointless scraps of cloth when fighting and pointless armour pieces designed to dig into her groin that bother me more.

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I was looking into costumes for Dana and noticed that her swimsuit costume is less revealing than her default outfit is:

Lulu is one of my go-to examples for "good design, wrong character." I can totally see the right person ripping apart an old dress to create that belt skirt. Her design looks even weirder when you consider how many random NPCs are basically in swimwear.

 

[Sera]

I dont see what's bad with the mod edit. :/

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the fact that it was required

 

[Dary]

I have a particular love of games that show the characters during downtime, eating meals, talking about food and leisure activities, and generally giving a sense that they tangibly exist in the world, and it's surprisingly rare once you start paying attention.

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Often what I notice is that they'll give each character a hobby to give the illusion of depth. Emphasis on a hobby, because rarely do they have more than one. And it will usually play into standard gender expectations - even if the game is set in a world other than our own, with its own unique history and society (but that's a whole other topic of poor writing)...

 

[Ferrs]

the fact that it was required

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With this I agree lol

 

[Redcrayon]

Yes, absolutely. Whether you're telling an urban fantasy story, a distant-future sci-fi story, or a wacky, cartoony tale, I want to be able to believe that your characters are people that exist outside of this story. If your primary goal is "design a sexy character" and not "create a three-dimensional character," you're probably going to run into problems. Why does Ivy, a noble-born warrior that has dedicated her life to her quest, fight in thigh highs and a skimpy unitard? Why does Quiet, an assassin that breathes through her skin, wear an unsupportive bikini while covering her legs in a non-breathable material. There's not an answer beyond "it looks hot," and that actively detracts from the characters and their stories.



I was looking into costumes for Dana and noticed that her swimsuit costume is less revealing than her default outfit is:

Lulu is one of my go-to examples for "good design, wrong character." I can totally see the right person ripping apart an old dress to create that belt skirt. Her design looks even weirder when you consider how many random NPCs are basically in swimwear.

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I find Falcom's games a bit odd sometimes in that, when worldbuilding, much of the supporting female cast wears practical clothing for the task at hand, but only as long as they are over a certain age. Ys VIII has women in jobs like blacksmith, tailor, gladiator all wearing gear for that role, the latter even being a cool older character. Trails invariably has rural villagers in rural villager gear, urban workers in stuff that looks right for a city, military officers in military uniforms. So why is it that it's only women in the main or supporting cast under the age of about 25 that have to have this zetta-thingy going on when once they hit their mid-twenties they are allowed to dress normally for the job?

 

[Xaszatm]

I find Falcom's games a bit odd sometimes in that, when worldbuilding, much of the supporting female cast wears practical clothing for the task at hand, but only as long as they are over a certain age. Ys VIII has women in jobs like blacksmith, tailor, gladiator all wearing gear for that role, the latter even being a cool older character. Trails invariably has rural villagers in rural villager gear, urban workers in stuff that looks right for a city, military officers in military uniforms. So why is it that it's only women in the main or supporting cast under the age of about 25 that have to have this zetta-thingy going on?

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Main character syndrome, or, "I want my character to stand out, but am too lazy to actually make it work within the confines of my own story."

 

[Redcrayon]

Main character syndrome, or, "I want my character to stand out, but am too lazy to actually make it work within the confines of my own story."

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Which is bizarre when, looking at some of Claire's outfits, they clearly know how to make cool military uniforms for women. You just make them look like, er, uniforms :D

 

[a harmless rabbit]

Which is bizarre when, looking at some of Claire's outfits, they clearly know how to make cool military uniforms for women. You just make them look like, er, uniforms :D

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Heck, Claire's casual outfit in Cold Steel II is cute too. Wouldn't be quite sane to wear it on expeditions onto a snowy mountain like she does, granted. Claire is extremely good. More everything like Claire except the part where she vaguely creeps on the teenage protagonist too because everybody needs to be in love with him.

...which is also probably why the homogeneity in the teenage girl segment of the cast's designs, something that was never previously an issue in the series until Cold Steel. I'm a particularly big "fan" of the fixation on magical shirts and blazers that conform to the shape of the wearer's breasts. That kind of stuff actually bothers me more than most overt pandering sometimes.

EDIT: It's worth noting that there's a really gross subcultural concept of the "Christmas cake" with female characters in Japanese media. The notion that a woman's life ceases to have meaning and you've become something nobody wants (like a Christmas fruitcake) the second you hit 25 (Christmas). The name is actually kind of clever, I'd be more inclined to applaud it if it wasn't super gross. That'd probably be why they have carte blanche to dress more reasonably, if you were to look at things cynically.

Shout out to the fact that there's a rom-com anime airing this season with a 30 year old female protagonist that doesn't ever touch on any of that, just to make it clear that the entire well isn't poisoned. Also the fact that Claire, at 24, panders to a degree too might be...good...in that context?

No. No, it's definitely not.

 

[IwazaruK7]

JRPGs I'm a little less into, and I think western games tend to do characterization fairly well. It's not necessarily an either/or thing for me. :P

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Of course that depends on what exact games from each side, just sometimes was under impression of a "pattern" why some people prefer this for that etc. etc.

On a related note, japanese developers also tend to give slightly more characterization to "stereotype playable characters" in sports or rhythm videogames, but there might be exceptions of course (like, some tony hawk pro skater spinoffs were creative on designs etc)

 

[Xaszatm]

Which is bizarre when, looking at some of Claire's outfits, they clearly know how to make cool military uniforms for women. You just make them look like, er, uniforms :D

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Hence, the "lazy" part of my post. :P

 

[Twig]

This is an extremely fair point, in my mind. Anime has an extreme problem with design and camerawork on a more than regular basis, but the actual characterization of women is very frequently on point, and the type of rightfully criticized archetypal moe absurdity where every female character has an "Uguu~"-esque catchphrase and conducts herself like an invalid largely fell out of vogue a very long time ago, even in trashier and more pandery shows. Anime has a lot of problems with its treatment and framing of women, but I do think criticism of it can be a bit reductive at times, especially from those with only a passing interest or no interest in the medium.


This isn't that different from western media--primetime soaps aimed at teenagers tend to have twenty-somethings playing characters significantly younger and engaging in behavior that you wouldn't want to see onscreen out of people who weren't twenty-somethings. The fact that Riverdale featured KJ Apa and Camilla Mendes engaging in a fade to black shower sex scene a few episodes ago while playing characters who are 15-16 year old sophomores in high school comes to mind. This is a pretty pervasive societal problem more or less globally.

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Haha, that's absolutely true. "Haha." D:

Society in general does have a tendency to romanticize youth as this perfect ideal. Not just in terms of physical attractiveness, either... College is "the best time of your life", etc. High school, I feel, used to be presented by media as the first time you get to really open up and be yourself, but that's maybe not so much a thing anymore? Then again, today there's, as you bring up, Riverdale, which is high school, where all the cool kids get up to cool things, and also murders happen. It's still mostly a high school thing in Japan, due to a variety of reasons.

Of course, the other thing with that stuff is target demographic, which is its own can of worms. I definitely consume a lot of media meant for people who aren't... my age.

 

[Dmax3901]

Yep, that's the reason people are complain about Pyra. Yep, because they secretly have terrible relationships. Yep. Absolutely. At this point, the fans have done more than a decent enough job of turning people away from this series than the fanbait ever did.

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Use the report button my friend.

 

[theprodigy]

Use the report button my friend.

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dude already got a warning, yes just a warning

 

[Xaszatm]

dude already got a warning, yes just a warning

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Eh, don't rag on the Mod team. They're doing their job and if he continues, he's probably gonna rack up real quick anyways.

 

[Manzoon]

I'm a particularly big "fan" of the fixation on magical shirts and blazers that conform to the shape of the wearer's breasts. That kind of stuff actually bothers me more than most overt pandering sometimes.

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Boob pockets in shirts are one of the goddamn weirdest things in anime costume design. It's something that has always annoyed me even before I started paying attention to male gaze and out of place fan-service pandering. On that same topic, contoured breast armor will shatter your sternum if you fall on your front.

Edit (doing multiple quotes is doing some weird formatting)

She's a tool, a gameplay mechanic (oho!), not a person.

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Just highlighting this, because I love this.

 

[RoninChaos]

... how hard is it to make female characters without absurd breast physics and stupid costumes? It seems like this is par for the course for a lot of jRPGs and it's getting really tiresome. I don't care about overly sexualizez characters and neither does my wife (she loves Bayonetta) but so much of this is borderline absurd and it's tiring to hear these juvenile responses like "Herp a derp, you don't like boobs?!" It seems especially egregious with characters that look like they are 12 but the story says they're like 104 or some stupid shit.

I would really like to support the jRPG industry as a whole but this trend with women makes it so difficult.

Does anyone living in Japan see a similar backlash to this stuff on that end? Or do they not care?

 

[Poobik THE Hare]

I bought Final Fantasy 15 to play on my One X and found it quite jarring when I met that female mechanic at the garage for the 1st time and while I've not spent to much time with it (playing wolfenstein 2), I'm at a loss as to understand why a Dev felt the need to do that.

 

[Sturm]

... how hard is it to make female characters without absurd breast physics and stupid costumes? It seems like this is par for the course for a lot of jRPGs and it's getting really tiresome. I don't care about overly sexualizez characters and neither does my wife (she loves Bayonetta) but so much of this is borderline absurd and it's tiring to hear these juvenile responses like "Herp a derp, you don't like boobs?!" It seems especially egregious with characters that look like they are 12 but the story says they're like 104 or some stupid shit.

I would really like to support the jRPG industry as a whole but this trend with women makes it so difficult.

Does anyone living in Japan see a similar backlash to this stuff on that end? Or do they not care?

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They not care.


The Japanese are more open-minded than other countries in terms of sex. Specifically for my taste they take light years to other countries. They do not have so many prejudices. Thank God, there are no white knights in Japan and that's why we get amazing designs without censorship today.

And as much as it bothers some of them this is part of their culture, manga and anime with designs of this type. And it will continue like that without changing, that luck that we have fans of the anime, the manga.

 

[Xaszatm]

They not care.


The Japanese are more open-minded than other countries in terms of sex. Specifically for my taste they take light years to other countries. They do not have so many prejudices. Thank God, there are no white knights in Japan and that's why we get amazing designs without censorship today.

And as much as it bothers some of them this is part of their culture, manga and anime with designs of this type. And it will continue like that without changing, that luck that we have fans of the anime, the manga.

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You don't know much about Japan if you think that's the case. Look at there laws on LGBT issues and complete isolationism for instance. And the constant fan pandering to the Otaku case is a big reason why anime is heavy mocked...within Japan itself.

 

[Opa-Pa]

I prefer Dark Knights myself. Sacrificing HP for extra damage is just badass.

 

[Xaszatm]

I prefer Dark Knights myself. Sacrificing HP for extra damage is just badass.

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Nah, Cecil gains so much better powers when he becomes a Paladin.

 

[Redcrayon]

They not care.


The Japanese are more open-minded than other countries in terms of sex. Specifically for my taste they take light years to other countries. They do not have so many prejudices. Thank God, there are no white knights in Japan and that's why we get amazing designs without censorship today.

And as much as it bothers some of them this is part of their culture, manga and anime with designs of this type. And it will continue like that without changing, that luck that we have fans of the anime, the manga.

Click to shrink...

I love how you've managed to spin a laser-focus on the financial benefit of selling one type of imagery to one demographic as being open-minded. A requirement for lead female characters to be a certain age and dress a certain way is literally a prejudice in itself, just not the bizarre 'other countries prejudice against sexy outfits' you're railing against.

 

[Chaparral]

They not care.


The Japanese are more open-minded than other countries in terms of sex. Specifically for my taste they take light years to other countries. They do not have so many prejudices. Thank God, there are no white knights in Japan and that's why we get amazing designs without censorship today.

And as much as it bothers some of them this is part of their culture, manga and anime with designs of this type. And it will continue like that without changing, that luck that we have fans of the anime, the manga.

Click to shrink...

Mhm, open minded enough to continue sexualization of underaged looking characters? Man, Japan is a swell place!

also lol at 'censorship'

 

[Opa-Pa]

Nah, Cecil gains so much better powers when he becomes a Paladin.

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Hold on, then Japan /does/ have white knights after all, and turns out they're objectively superior to boot. Our friend Sturn has no idea lol.

 

[Aters]

They not care.


The Japanese are more open-minded than other countries in terms of sex. Specifically for my taste they take light years to other countries. They do not have so many prejudices. Thank God, there are no white knights in Japan and that's why we get amazing designs without censorship today.

And as much as it bothers some of them this is part of their culture, manga and anime with designs of this type. And it will continue like that without changing, that luck that we have fans of the anime, the manga.

Click to shrink...

Japanese culture is sexism to the point that women are expected to retire from work after getting married. "Open-minded" is not the word I'd use when it comes to Japanese gender issue. Also, feminism movement in Japan is a thing.

 

[Redcrayon]

Hold on, then Japan /does/ have white knights after all, and turns out they're objectively superior to boot. Our friend Sturn has no idea lol.

Click to shrink...

To be fair White Knight Chronicles kinda bombed, which severely affected the ratio of badass white knight giant robots. This prejudice, censorship and lack of open-mindedness has put the white knight movement back twenty years, no wonder they are keeping their heads down.

 

[Necromanti]

Look at all these Japanese white knights.

 

[Xaszatm]

To be fair White Knight Chronicles kinda bombed, which severely affected the ratio of badass white knight giant robots. This prejudice, censorship and lack of open-mindedness has put the white knight movement back twenty years, no wonder they are keeping their heads down.

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Is it bad that I actually really liked that series that I bought it twice?

 

[Htown]

Japanese culture is sexism to the point that women are expected to retire from work after getting married. "Open-minded" is not the word I'd use when it comes to Japanese gender issue. Also, feminism movement in Japan is a thing.

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Wait, I'm confused. Doesn't "open-minded" just mean "willing to show me anime boobs?" Is there some other use for the phrase I'm not aware of?

 

[Sturm]

I will explain myself better. I mean that no one is scandalized or put his hands on his head to see an image of a female character with little clothes. I no longer speak only of Japan, in many places in Europe as in my country either. In that sense they are more open-minded because they are not half as prejudiced as other countries.

 

[Redcrayon]

Look at all these Japanese white knights.

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Hasn't anyone told that housewife that such anime girls are part of her culture? Maybe she isn't an expert.

 

[Chaparral]

I will explain myself better. I mean that no one is scandalized or put his hands on his head to see an image of a female character with little clothes. I no longer speak only of Japan, in many places in Europe as in my country either. In that sense they are more open-minded because they are not half as prejudiced as other countries.

Click to shrink...

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Even if Japan is a lot more positive to the idea of sex and nudity (which, should be noted, they aren't because they still censor porn at a top down level) that doesn't excuse the rampant misogyny found within Japanese society.

Or is this about those SJW's coming for your anime titties?

 

[Xaszatm]

I will explain myself better. I mean that no one is scandalized or put his hands on his head to see an image of a female character with little clothes. I no longer speak only of Japan, in many places in Europe as in my country either. In that sense they are more open-minded because they are not half as prejudiced as other countries.

Click to shrink...

That's really only half the problem though. It's more how the game/anime/manga/media presents the character that we start rolling our eyes. How a camera focuses solely on someone's breasts or butt, how a woman's body will contort so the comic page can show both her ass and her tits to the page, these things are far more damning then just clothes.

 

[Redcrayon]

Is it bad that I actually really liked that series that I bought it twice?

Click to shrink...

Nah, I quite liked the first one too! Gave up on the PSP one.