Listen to women, maybe read a book too. Your opinion is irrelevant.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Listen to women, maybe read a book too. Your opinion is irrelevant.
Probably because the vast majority of women have zero interest in video games? And from the ones that do play games on pc/consoles, how many know programming or would ever care about making a game themselves?
if by "a bunch of women" you mean like 3.8 billion then yeah
No?
SO you state sexism exists, but it's not ingrained in our society? What?
Bullshit. It exists, why else would there be so many women who have experienced it?
Jesus christ, I just simply fucking can't respond to this.
I mean, there is also the rampant sexism that has been going on in the tech industry that makes it very, very hard for a woman to get in, let alone, break through that barrier. So, there's much more than just women don't want to do it. It's also an example of sexism that exists that some other people apparently think don't exist.
User Warned For: Denying the obvious and derailing the topic. Structural and systematic sexism is a thing. Full stop.
Source?
Yes, that's how this works. Go tell a person of color that racism isn't ingrained in society, I am sure you will love having that conversation.
You are so disingenous.
All of which is delightful explain from men to women without a single hint of irony. I'm losing my goddamn mind here.
then don't. easy peasy.
thanks for swearing blasphemy at me though. *clap*
That was very much by design. both parts of that
Gaming once didn't have gender but then targeted ad campaigns shifted the view to be aimed at boys and now its a guy's thing
https://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed
Programming was once secretary's (women's) work but as time when programming became more lucrative and it became a man's industry
hopefully we can reverse these trends. I feel like we're going a bit in the right direction but not without a ton of kicking and screming
Please explain why women must play on pc/console in order to count as playing video games.
If you would take a hot minute to actually look into the issue instead of being disingenuous on this forum, you'd find plenty of truth to the fact that sexism is prevalent in modern society. Here are three papers that took about 15 seconds to pull up in Google.
Sexism and racism: Old-fashioned and modern prejudices.
Prejudice and discrimination against women has become increasingly subtle and covert (N. V. Benokraitis & J. R. Feagin, 1986). Unlike research on racism, little research about prejudice and discrimination against women has explicitly examined beliefs underlying this more modern form of sexism. Support was found for a distinction between old-fashioned and modern beliefs about women similar to results that have been presented for racism (J. B. McConahay, 1986; D. O. Sears, 1988). The former is characterized by endorsement of traditional gender roles, differential treatment of women and men, and stereotypes about lesser female competence. Like modern racism, modern sexism is characterized by the denial of continued discrimination, antagonism toward women's demands, and lack of support for policies designed to help women (for example, in education and work). Research that compares factor structures of old-fashioned and modern sexism and racism and that validates our modern sexism scale is presented. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)
Excuse Me—What Did You Just Say?!: Women's Public and Private Responses to Sexist Remarks
Two studies illustrate women's struggle between their desire to challenge sexism and the social pressures and costs that lead to not publicly responding. In Study 1, 45% of the women confronted a man who made a sexist remark and only 15% did so directly. Confronting was most likely to be chosen by women actively committed to fighting sexism in their daily lives. Private responses illustrate that a lack of responding was not necessarily indicative of complacency about the remarks or a lack of thoughts about confronting. The results from Studies 1 and 2 reveal that diffusion of responsibility, normative pressures to not respond, social pressures to be polite, and concern about retaliation likely suppressed responding.
Everyday Sexism: Evidence for Its Incidence, Nature, and Psychological Impact From Three Daily Diary Studies
Three daily diary studies were conducted to examine the incidence, nature, and impact of everyday sexism as reported by college women and men. Women experienced about one to two impactful sexist incidents per week, consisting of traditional gender role stereotypes and prejudice, demeaning and degrading comments and behaviors, and sexual objectification. These incidents affected women's psychological well-being by decreasing their comfort, increasing their feelings of anger and depression, and decreasing their state self-esteem. Although the experiences had similar effects on men's anger, depression, and state self-esteem, men reported relatively fewer sexist incidents, suggesting less overall impact on men. The results provide evidence for the phenomena of everyday prejudice and enlighten our understanding of the experience of prejudice in interpersonal encounters from the perspective of the target.
I really shouldn't keep posting anymore since it's clear none of you are willing to discuss this.
But I need to say I'm being a 100% genuine here. I'm not trying to mislead any of you. I'm not trying to troll any of you. I'm just interested in the facts. I can't in good conscious choose to just believe everything you tell me. I need some data. What's wrong with asking for proof? Wouldn't you ask the same if I made a bold claim that "x group are oppressed by y"?
Your post history shows you are quite willing to swear.
May I ask why you are using it as an argument against another poster, given that circumstance?
Where else are you going to play games? On your phone? Aren't phone games a complete joke, and most of them are full of microtransactions and ads? I don't consider anyone that only plays phone games to be a gamer, regardless of gender.
Oh, take you "gotcha" fishing quotes and quit pretending you know all the answers. Here's a hint, if you think you somehow know all the answers in a thread 54 pages long that somehow hasn't been discussed already despite not even interested in reading, then don't come in here at all.
Good to hear that we're now readily accepting that gods exist faster than female gamers.
The mods are certainly being biased here. It's fine to be condescending if you're in support of their view but against it? Here's a warning for you. If you're a subject of harassment irl then I can understand where you're coming from. That is never okay. But I don't believe it's right to think something fictional is wrong or bad because you disagree with it.
maybe you could use Google and educate yourself instead of expecting women to spoonfeed you
A lot of the pioneers of Game Development were women. They ended up getting pushed out when the Great Video Game crash happened and Nintendo decided to market to kids and since kids toys were gender split they had to make a choice: they choice boys. We have got pat the point in this medium of saying that games are only for kids yet some still think that it's only for men, It's not. I gamed from as long as I can remember, my parents got me educational games, and I tried more and more. And throughout that entire period, the majority of games actively try to push me out, and pretend I don't exist. Every thing is designed for men, and you're surprised that women start dropping out and leave the hobby? The process starts when you're a kid, you're told games are for guys. Ironically, the one genre that doesn't is mobile games - and women are the biggest customer. Instead of assuming that perhaps the console/PC games developers are missing out on a huge market, you assume women just don't want to play on consoles or PC. They do. I do. But there are very slim pickings which is why this thread was created. To say "Hey game developers, include us in your design making, we want more games that are friendly to women - here's how!". We are applying market pressure - we are criticisng, we aren't buying those games. But somehow that's still not enough proof.
No need to be a an asshole about it, the guy has been very civil in his arguments and posts.
It seems we have fundamentally different views on what constitutes "sexualization". I had never considered sexual acts (depicted or implied) to actually be vital for it, with the absence of any such acts being what I consider "tease sexualization". On the male side, pre-DmC Dante would be an example and maybe the FFXV crew (correct me if I'm wrong since I haven't actually played FFXV yet). On the female side... well I probably don't have to give examples in a thread like this, heh.
I also consider it a neutral term with "good" and "bad" being determined through other traits connected to it, like how well the context fits or stuff like that. I would say examples of good sexualized female characters would be someone like Kaine with bad ones being someone like Quiet (or I assume so as I've never actually played MGSV) and at least with the former, there are no depictions or implications of sexual acts.
Can you be more specific as to where this advantage happens? Is this related to playing video games, or like society in general or?
SSS rank sea-lioning, mate. Well done but I am not going to spend my evening proving something as self-evident as sexism exists.
I would ask for proof if you said something that was, in any way shape or form, disputable or inconsistent with widely researched, confirmed and verified fact. So, yeah, it comes across as extremely trolling behavior when you wander into a thread about why females don't like sexualised character designs and start telling people that they're wrong. You know, in direct contradiction to established, verified fact.
Maybe you'll take some time to research the subject and come around on the topic but it's not the place of a suppressed group to explain your privilege to you for the umpteenth time when you don't seem willing to step outside of your experiential knowledge by yourself.
Or maybe the mods are being "biased" because we've had the exact same pattern happen for the last 54 pages over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and it's completely obvious to everyone involved.
Women are continuously subject to harassment in real life.
Media, such as video games, shapes how people view the world. Sexist portrayals on women in video games fuel sexism in the real world.
The two are not, and never have been, unrelated.
lmao you can't be serious.
In the case you are, mobile has a wide array of ports and variants of popular PC/console games, not that it's even relevant since the ones developed specifically for mobile are just as "real" as any other game.
Oh, you are right with this, but this is simply the result of capitalism. I don't believe it's a result of "sexism" or anything like that. It's all about money, and this path brought the most money to the big companies.
But women do deal with more sexist shit than men though that's pretty clear in everyday life you Don't need
a spreadsheet to see it
Are you ... paying attention to the news right now?
I mean, if it wasn't obvious before now, yes, society as a whole is sexist towards women.
User Warned For: Drive-by and nonsensical posting.
That's some bullshit. To we have to thank third wave feminism for this?
Or just look at #GamerGate for that matter. Or how Anita Sarkeesian gets treated for daring to have the audacity to apply basic media studies 101 critique to the medium of video games.
Shit's disingenuous as fuck.
Thank goodness King of Dragon Pass is now on mobile. Now I can steal cows and fight the horsemen whenever I want! Can't get more classic than that.
You sound quite uneducated on the subject.
In fact, many "phone games" are simply rereleases of console games. I have Final Fantasy (1) on my phone. KOTOR. Bejeweled. Phoenix Wright. Buncha old PC adventure games. Zork. Pacman. The whole history of gaming in fact.
My coworker repeats an almost identical line when he advocates for #AllLivesMatter. (with racism replacing patriarchy)
Just because you weren't specifically benefited by it, doesn't make for a solid argument against it existing or effecting the large majority of people.
The data we have strongly suggests that women make up more than 40% of the gaming population.
41% of game players are women.
42% of game players are women.
Adult women who game outnumber teenage boys
I've seen a lot of people insist that most of these women are playing on mobile devices, not consoles. However, the data doesn't support that either.
42% of Xbox One owners are women.
42% of console owners are women.
Because women experience a lot of harassment in the gaming community, we're not always going to be vocal about our love of games. Personally, I hate going to game shops and refuse to game with strangers online. It's just not worth it.
Men definitely outnumber women in the world of game development, and I'd love to see that change. I don't have any hard data on hand, but I know I never even considered that a career in game development was a possibility when I was younger. It'd be great to see more programs that encourage girls to get into programming. For my part, I mess around with Ren'Py games a lot, but I don't know that I will ever release a commercial game.
Oh, I see. You're right that I'm uneducated on that subject. It's because I've literally never met anyone that plays phone games. You're probably the only person I've ever even seen who can even name phone games, let alone play them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The guy didn't say that. He said that he didn't believe that sexism is ingrained in society. I think it's understandable for someone to believe that. They probably worked hard to get to where they at. Of course, what they don't realize is just how much harder someone of a different race/gender would have to work to get to where they're at, or just how much more they would have to put up with.
Could you please show the data, from the alternate timeline, showing that when video games in the 80s were marketed as a girls' toy, that it resulted in less money for the big companies?
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