So, should all games that not aim for realism, aim for erotism? Why?
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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You are sooooo wrong on this.
1. Im not comparing IV, Street Fighter IV has a completely different art direction, V is trying to resemble Third Strike in it proportions and that is very visible if you compare them.
2.The difference between Chuns SF4 Alt and SFV Battle Costume is completely minuscule, it is just a change in proportions.
I guess my less frabric you mean clipping.
3.BRUH I JUST GAVE YOU OLD CHUN LI PROMOTIONAL ART.
4. Chun has always been known for her huge ass thighs(hence her nickname Thunder Thighs), she is being called THICC now because THICC is back in fashion.
She has always been bad as fuck.
5. Im pretty sure we have had this conversation in another thread?
This is one main reason humanities modules in universities and colleges should also be taught in science, technology and engineering courses. Especially Women's Studies, which encompasses multiple disciplines.
Fortunately newer developers are more socially aware than the old guard
A popular kids show that was localized from a YA series (so shounen)? One of the recent Yu-gi-oh series?
All I'll say is that I also had to edit out cartoon bombs and other pointless graphical elements like slot machines. I'd rather not call it out by name.
You have a bunch of women in this thread literally telling you that it isn't a power fantasy for them. I have enough of being sexualized in my daily life, and I don't need it when I'm trying to have fun.
Also having trouble thinking of any super sexualized male characters let alone sexualized male characters that are also power fantasies. Being shirtless or having muscles =/= sexualized. This is a really boring thing to bring up, honestly, and it's been addressed in this thread a dozen times.
I can name more than a few hentai game male characters that are sexualized power fantasies if you want.
But you're right, if we're considering "power fantasy" a subjective quantifier, then I certainly can't nor shouldn't tell any women what to think about any particular depiction in media. But if there is a sizable portion of a female audience that considers, say, Bayonetta a power fantasy, do we accept that answer at least for them? I don't mean for this to come off as a "I have a female friend that totally thinks THIS is a power fantasy" defense, I'm just trying to lock down a definition, at least among those in here.
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Aren't hentai games, like, designed to provide sexual stimulation? As in, it's not some random RPG or other non-niche genre with random "power fantasies" sprinkled in?
Depends. There's quite a few that have quality aspects outside of the sexual stimulation, many of which are visual novels or SRPGs. For some, that's even a small chunk of the game. And that's before we even get into the millions of sub-genres of eroge.
Hell, one of the best visual novels ever (Saya no Uta) has sexual content.
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Not sure about having this discussion before, lol. But I will provide examples once I'm not on my phone. Your excuse is weak, though - SFIV had ladies with big breasts like Rose or Poison. Now Chun is on their level.
And no, Chun's old sexy dress actually covered her back and the sides of her breasts, come on, lol.
Good, then, because it's a common argument. "Who cares? You have people who spit fire, so it's okay to have butt naked ladies".
But the core part of the game, and the design of the game, is for some kind of sexual fantasy.
That's literally the point of hentai.
And it's a good argument, it's a silly fantastical game.
Practically every comic book you will ever read uses hero proportions, exaggerated muscles on males, toothbrush beautiful smiles, faces with almost no planes stressed. Males with beautiful perfect jaw lines.
Why? Because that's part of the appeal of the comic, aesthetically pleasing images.
Likewise with fighting games such as Street Fighter or others of it's ilk, it's an undeniable fact it's part of the appeal, "No Mai No buy".
Nothing to be ashamed of in the slightest, tis' a good thing.
Not necessarily. As I said about eroge alone, it varies depending on the subgenre. Nukige are the only type that is all about the sex. Stuff like utsuge/nakige can have sexual content, but that isn't the point of it. No one is playing Saya no Uta for the explicit sex scenes, they're playing it for the horror and the incredible soundtrack.
These same kinds of quantifiers apply to other genres as well.
I imagine the millions of people who buy these games, or the human-beings who have a natural response to aesthetically pleasing images. Which would be practically everyone with eyes, as opposed to a vocal minority.
Mechanic in 1995
Mechanic in 2016
We've come a long way in twenty years... I also want to share this article by Cara Ellison https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/20/s-exe-full-throttle/
Full Throttle spoilers! But who am I kidding nobody here will play it ever anyway :( Tim Schafer is a legend and his portrayal of women has always been more than respectful.
Mechanic in 2016
We've come a long way in twenty years... I also want to share this article by Cara Ellison https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/20/s-exe-full-throttle/
Full Throttle spoilers! But who am I kidding nobody here will play it ever anyway :( Tim Schafer is a legend and his portrayal of women has always been more than respectful.
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So I don't have eyes because I don't like objectified female designs? I don't find those aesthetically pleasing at all. I find them degrading.
There are a lot of silly fantastical games that don't "naturally" progress into sexual pandering, lol. It's a bad argument, it doesn't explain the actual relation between point A and B.
Also, most Street Fighter men are hideous, sorry. Mountains of muscles with Space Ghost jaws =/= attractive.
My point is a hentai game is designed to have SOME aspect of sex in it, otherwise it's not a hentai game.
Saying that people play those games for the story is like saying someone watches porn for the plot.
Na it's a good argument, you're trying to overgeneralize it across the board.
As for your comment about Street Fighter men being hideous, you're entitled to your opinion, but Hot Ryu was a thing.
Agreed, OP.
It is the trend that bothers me (i.e., that it still is a prevalent trend, particularly in fantasy type games) to present women in overtly sexualised ways without any kind of justifiable context. That is not to say it is wrong for female characters to be designed to look beautiful, just that doesn't and shouldn't often come with skimpy atire. I things have improved in some games - i.e., Gears of War 4 - but still lags in others (FFXV...but this was even more for the portrayal of women characters).
Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with the portrayal in stuff like Horizon. I mean she has a couple of costumes that skin, but I don't see that in itself as an issue, because (1) she is portrayed as a consistently capable character, (2) she has a wide variety of atire, (3) girls do wear clothes where they show their belly for instance, and it can look good - there is no problem with that if the context isn't purile. It is context dependent.
It is the trend that bothers me (i.e., that it still is a prevalent trend, particularly in fantasy type games) to present women in overtly sexualised ways without any kind of justifiable context. That is not to say it is wrong for female characters to be designed to look beautiful, just that doesn't and shouldn't often come with skimpy atire. I things have improved in some games - i.e., Gears of War 4 - but still lags in others (FFXV...but this was even more for the portrayal of women characters).
Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with the portrayal in stuff like Horizon. I mean she has a couple of costumes that skin, but I don't see that in itself as an issue, because (1) she is portrayed as a consistently capable character, (2) she has a wide variety of atire, (3) girls do wear clothes where they show their belly for instance, and it can look good - there is no problem with that if the context isn't purile. It is context dependent.
I mean, you're also generalizing by saying that "anyone with eyes" finds that stuff appealing.
I mean, yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. Japan seems to be the only country to figure out that you can have explicit sex scenes in something where that isn't the main appeal of the product, at least on a relatively widespread level. In addition to my Saya no Uta example, no one is playing 100 hours of the Fate games for the 2 minutes of sexual content.
Hot Ryu was literally a happy accident and Capcom literally said "wut, he wasn't supposed to be hot". And that's one example in a se of Rainbow Mikas, Lauras, Mais, etc.
And "free get out of jail in these discussions card" Hot Ryu never poses suggestively, nor are his private parts constantly attacked by the camera, lol.
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Perfectly entitled to take issue with it if that's your prerogative. But make no mistake, you are minority, sex appeal for your typical male or female is aesthetically pleasing and part of what put games like these on the map, aside from it's solid gameplay, - combine sexy character in exotic locations, with stonkingly good soundtracks?
Yea, you're going to have a hard time convincing average joe they shouldn't be enjoying this.
Do you seriously believe that most straight women like objectified female characters?
But that IS the main appeal of the product. It's advertised as a hentai game.
Look. If someone wants to make something like that and advertise it as such, fine. I don't have a problem with it. It objectifies women, which I obviously don't like, but you know what to expect going in. It's easily avoidable.
My issue is that this sexualization of women is thrown into otherwise standard genre games for no reason or purpose other than to be the tits and ass of the show. They're degraded to be sexual objects for male viewing pleasure, in a game that should be equal for all audiences.
Because that actually can be generalized, the brain responds to it. Artists (the best including the likes of Da Vinci) took it into account when creating pieces of art.
The context of how it is used, can be in direct juxtaposition with everything else in the game. Like when you play a serious fantasy game and some girl wears ridiculous armor in contrast to fully covered men. I can fully understand and would take issue with that as well.
But something like Street Fighter (in particularly V?) Na. Just part of the fun. The game is the personification of comic absurdity.
We're speaking up BECAUSE we're the minority. Our opinions have just as much weight, as whatever generalized majority you're referring to.
You said it very clearly. It kinda blows my mind that many don't seem to get the difference.
It's not used for artistic purposes. It's used to sell a game at the expense of female representation and societal progress.
It's not "just part of the fun". It represents a disturbing trend where women are used to sell a product because they're put in compromising positions or outfits. It offends me, as a woman, that someone would degrade my body by portraying the female form in such a way.
User was warned: repeated false equivalencies regarding objectification of women and "objectification" of men.
Do you see men on mass protesting not to buy SFV because Ryu is too dam sexy?
Yea, it's because we don't care. In the slightest.
You cant compare Hot Ryu to any sexualized women, like, at all.
And I don't remember we men had a collective reunion about what we care and what we don't.
You didn't answer my question, and that's a ridiculous false equivalence.
But it's nice to know you just think women are too touchy.
You're right, that's why there was that huge whinefest about Mortal Kombat X because they DARED to dial down the fanservice of their female outfits from a 14 to 13. Clearly, they don't care.
That's great for you. The women here, at any rate, DO care. Very much so.
They're not just degrading - they're pathetic too. I have no time for anyone who defends the designs - it's just not needed in games. I find the whole thing weird and seedy.
Also, redesign based on "fan feedback"
like, I remember in GAF the same people that said there was nothing wrong with sexualized women criticized the FF Mobius guy.
Hot Ryu is just a martial artist with a beard. Just because people might find that more attractive, doesn't mean he compares to any sort of sexualized design. There's a difference between "hot" characters and highly sexualized ones.
It's not about convincing people they shouldn't enjoy it. Criticism is about explaining why it's problematic. You can see why a severe imbalance in objectification isn't right while still enjoying something.
Yep, call me when those "sexualized" men starts posing like this
Making something attractive is 100% artistic. For a male the artist must perfectly stress the planes. For a female the artists must get form and omitting planes 100% perfect. Costumes design as well is can heighten and accentuate form, regardless of social opinion, that is an artistic purpose.
To say it's not an artistic purpose is utterly false. Making woman look attractive or men handsome be it now, or 500 years ago was a great challenge. We have idealized "normal" and "superhuman" proportions because of it going from here all the way back to the renaissance. Because then, just like now, the simple fact is, people like looking at pretty people.
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And if we really wanted to use an actual instance of a male image designed for female eye candy:
The above image is part of the beach DLC for Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest. Notice the detail of muscle that isn't too detailed yet goes way down. Notice how the water on his skin seems almost sweat like. Notice how the lines are drawn towards the crotch area. This image is actually made for female fanservice and not for male power fantasy. The fact that so many people are coming in here with no idea what actually is being marketed to women is astounding.
Also, if anyone uses this image as "proof" that FE: Fates wasn't sexist, that falls apart when you realize that Xander is dressed in full plate armor in every other point in the game while his sister, Carmilla, is dressed with a goddamn boob belt.
The above image is part of the beach DLC for Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest. Notice the detail of muscle that isn't too detailed yet goes way down. Notice how the water on his skin seems almost sweat like. Notice how the lines are drawn towards the crotch area. This image is actually made for female fanservice and not for male power fantasy. The fact that so many people are coming in here with no idea what actually is being marketed to women is astounding.
Also, if anyone uses this image as "proof" that FE: Fates wasn't sexist, that falls apart when you realize that Xander is dressed in full plate armor in every other point in the game while his sister, Carmilla, is dressed with a goddamn boob belt.
User warned: Coming in a thread about women's opinions to tell them their opinion doesn't matter is rude and dismissive.
Video games are a form of art, if the developer chooses to use a certain style then let them. If an artist has a certain vision who are we to tell them it's wrong, just don't play that particular game.
With human-muscles well beyond a normal human-being, perfect facial proportion wearing no top, with arm-bands to accentuate the form of his ripped muscles.
Again, nobody cares. You do, on your end, with woman. But Ryu? Vega? Ken? All incredibly attractive characters with muscles real men will never have?
Yep. No one is protesting.
Are you really trying to say that gratuitous panty shots or something like Quiet's "uniform" were done for artistic expression?
Attractive people are fine. The problem is we have to deal with characters who are an eyesore because their sexualization clashes with their design.
I care. I am protesting. There are men in here protesting and caring a great deal. Stop dismissing our voices.
men conflating their own horniness and artistic meaningfulness is one of the great undercurrents of civilization.
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