Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

[Morrigan]

I would have thought that the need for most jRPGs to find an international audience, would have led to less pandering. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I mean, i feel like a hypocrite, saying that i want less sexualized characters, but still buying the games that have them in them. I don't know of a better way to tell pubs that i want less sexualized characters other than not buying their games. But i love many of them, despite them having these pandering designs.

Click to shrink...

Right. If you want to play JRPGs but "vote with your wallet" against objectified characters, you'll be buying... Pokémon and Ni No Kuni, and some indies like Cosmic Star Heroine? Yeah, slim pickings haha.

(Not to devalue the indies of course, CSH is great and better than just about any recent JRPG I played <3)

But yeah that's why criticism is important. "Voting with your wallet" will never be enough.

The last fighter i played was on PS1. And no i have not played FFXV, MGSV or any Batman games. I mainly play Paragon, Soulsgames, good SP games here and there. :)

Click to shrink...

Paragon has quite the fanservicey costumes from what I saw. I'm the biggest Souls fan around but even they aren't immune, Dark Souls has "Amazing Chest Ahead" remember? It's not the trashiest thing, but it was still really obvious fanservice. For the most part Souls games are great at gender equality though. The armours are all gender-equal, female NPCs aren't damselled more than male characters are and are dressed normally, you have tons of female bosses and enemies that aren't just the stereotypical "sexy evil" BS, and so on.

And... they are Japanese games! So all those "meh this is Japan" excuses are just that, excuses. Japanese devs are more than capable of not having blatant sexism in their games.

 

[Xaszatm]

I find it super disappointing how little Nintendo seems to care anymore about this crap in the games they develop. They went from being mocked for how family friendly they were to reinvigorating Fire Emblem as a series with waifus and otaku pandering, and now Xenoblade 2 looks disgusting in many places, yikes.

I had a look at that rare blades thread too and Jesus Christ, why. I legit feel embarrassed that I'm gonna buy that game.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, I genuinely believe that the Otaku culture did not save FE because that group doesn't generate million unit sales. What did save it was an appealing art style (Tharja and Nowi notwithstanding) and changes to the support system to add much needed character moments to make them more endearing. I do believe that Awakening brought a new wave of female fans to the series which is why I'm worried/hopeful the the FE Switch will be less pandering than both Heroes and XBC2. Because if they go the XBC2 route, FE's numbers are going to crater.

 

[MaskedNdi]

Right. If you want to play JRPGs but "vote with your wallet" against objectified characters, you'll be buying... Pokémon and Ni No Kuni, and some indies like Cosmic Star Heroine? Yeah, slim pickings haha.

Click to shrink...

I would never single Pokemon out for objectification, but even that has some sexualized designs.

I don't really have an issue with either design; just pointing out that this sort of thing is omnipresent.

 

[SieteBlanco]

The yumejoshi audience doesn't particularly care about Tharja or Camilla being half-naked as long as My Unit can still romance Leo and Takumi.

 

[Opa-Pa]

To be fair, I genuinely believe that the Otaku culture did not save FE because that group doesn't generate million unit sales. What did save it was an appealing art style (Tharja and Nowi notwithstanding) and changes to the support system to add much needed character moments to make them more endearing. I do believe that Awakening brought a new wave of female fans to the series which is why I'm worried/hopeful the the FE Switch will be less pandering than both Heroes and XBC2. Because if they go the XBC2 route, FE's numbers are going to crater.

Click to shrink...

I'm admittedly not too versed in this but regardless it's a shame that the one title that made FE more anime was the one that saved the series and thus made the devs stick to that style in the end. But yeah hopefully FE Switch shakes things uth

 

[Aniki]

I kinda want to rail against the notion that anime has to automatically mean sexualized designs.
In the 90's i watched so many of them that had strong female protagonists, that weren't sexualized. Even after 00's there were a few good shows with good female representation. Though it was much harder to find them in the mass of animes that pandered to an audience, which liked sexualized designs. Like with jRPGs i feel people assume just because it comes from japan it has to automatically include pandering. There is a market for anime that doesn't need all this. I hope that with international streaming services now making up a big chunk of their revenue. There will be a return to better female representation. Though i also thought this would be the case for jRPGs.

 

[TwinsUltra64]

This isn't sexualization of male??

Just stop with this no sense.

 

[Pau]

Just stop with this no sense.

Click to shrink...

What, umm, nonsense?

 

[Velka]

This isn't sexualization of male??

Just stop with this no sense.

Click to shrink...

If we're going with what's generally considered sexy for women, no this is not what's a sexualized male, if anything it's more of a gag on the male power fantasy than anything.

 

[Deleted member 21094]

But yeah that's why criticism is important. "Voting with your wallet" will never be enough.


Paragon has quite the fanservicey costumes from what I saw. I'm the biggest Souls fan around but even they aren't immune, Dark Souls has "Amazing Chest Ahead" remember? It's not the trashiest thing, but it was still really obvious fanservice. For the most part Souls games are great at gender equality though. The armours are all gender-equal, female NPCs aren't damselled more than male characters are and are dressed normally, you have tons of female bosses and enemies that aren't just the stereotypical "sexy evil" BS, and so on.

And... they are Japanese games! So all those "meh this is Japan" excuses are just that, excuses. Japanese devs are more than capable of not having blatant sexism in their games.

Click to shrink...

"The vote with your wallet" thing might also just tell the devs that localization efforts aren't worth it and they just STOP localizing instead of changing the game. I think it's not a bad idea to get the criticism across.

"Meh this is Japan" is seen largely as an excuse, but the thing is that it is also a reality. Their social climate is drastically different from the western societies and unless they are really willing to alienate some of their own fan base to chase after the western or global audience, it would be up to the devs. But if the results can't back it up if they do venture in that direction, they might again, just give up localizing. I legit have seen, a ton of people buy a game because of a cute character on the cover art of a game in Asia. Their gamer culture is also a little different to ours as well, because they are raised on animes and the "surface" level of otaku culture is widely mixed into the mainstream. I grew up on this stuff in the Asian social climate, I remember the xenoblade 2 reveal trailer from January, my reactions were "oh living blades! That's cool!" I didn't even notice pyra's design at ALL during the reveal. Then I went on gaming forums here, obviously tons of discussion on pyra's design. Then I went to a few gaming forums I visit in Japan and Taiwan, their post dont really talk about pyra 's design unless it is to say that she is super cute and they're sold on the game. This is I think a huge part in this whole "west vs east" and "it's because it's Japanese". It's really much harder to understand their culture around this and because of the differences it is hard for both sides to understand each other's argument.

When I first came to Canada, I did not play ANY western games, the art style is ugly, realistic style is boring to me. Back when MMO is huge I couldn't bear to play WoW because of the western designs, I find them so so ugly. I played ragnarok online instead because of the anime style.

Can Japanese devs do better? Yes they can. But do they have a compelling reason to? This depends, I feel like they would like to also gain western audience if possible, but if that means losing some of their surelocked fans in other parts that accept this stuff, they will be hesitant.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This isn't sexualization of male??

Just stop with this no sense.

Click to shrink...

It's almost as if objectification skews overwhelmingly toward pandering to the male gaze and cases like Chris Redfield getting fanservicey costumes are uncommon. You're basically asking people to stop thinking more critically about representation in this medium, and that people should just accept the ways thing are or more accurately, used to be.

 

[Mesoian]

I am sorry but it's mostly niche games with sexualized characters. I don't think i have played a "mainstream" game in recent memory full of sexy women.. And don't say Witcher..

Click to shrink...

This is disingenuous as fuck. It's far more difficult to think of games that have female main characters that DON'T have objectifying outfits this year.

Can Japanese devs do better? Yes they can. But do they have a compelling reason to? This depends, I feel like they would like to also gain western audience if possible, but if that means losing some of their surelocked fans in other parts that accept this stuff, they will be hesitant.

Click to shrink...

I don't know how good of an argument, "we could change, but we have whales, so NAAAAAAAAAAW" is. If all that matters is your bottomline, sure, follow trends, no matter how small. I would hope they would aspire for more than 12 year olds in pasties and t-backs though.

 

[Morrigan]

This isn't sexualization of male??

Just stop with this no sense.

Click to shrink...

Great example (not really, but let's pretend). Now show me how ubiquitous this kind of design is in portraying male characters across the medium, instead of the rare instance.

 

[IwazaruK7]

but even that has some sexualized designs.

Click to shrink...

What defines as "sexualized"? Is it amount of bare skin shown or how tightly clothes "sit" on character, attenuating figure?

 

[Morrigan]

What defines as "sexualized"? Is it amount of bare skin shown or how tightly clothes "sit" on character, attenuating figure?

Click to shrink...

The amount of skin shown isn't the only factor, no. It's just one that heavily correlates with sexualization. A fully covered character can be heavily sexualized if her clothing is skin-tight, while a girl wearing a leotard might be perfectly tasteful depending on context.

I posted a bit more about this earlier: https://www.resetera.com/posts/1061289/

 

[John Rabbit]

Holy hell at the sheer amount of thick-headedness you have to put on display to come into this thread at 42 pages with BUT MALES TOO.

What defines as "sexualized"? Is it amount of bare skin shown or how tightly clothes "sit" on character, attenuating figure?

Click to shrink...

I tend to look at it as "How congruent is this character's appearance with their role in the story?" I don't know anything about either of the two characters that were posted, but I can almost guarantee the second girl's shirt doesn't need to be revealing her midsection like that nor her shorts that tight and short, or her heeled sandals.

 

[Deleted member 21094]

I don't know how good of an argument, "we could change, but we have whales, so NAAAAAAAAAAW" is. If all that matters is your bottomline, sure, follow trends, no matter how small. I would hope they would aspire for more than 12 year olds in pasties and t-backs though.

Click to shrink...

It's not an argument, it's just what is happening, I'm just pointing it out. Ultimately it is really up to what the devs there on who they want to target.

as a side thing, I also find it interesting how people always say a character look like they're younger than their actual age and stuff in Japanese artstyle. The stupid artificial inflation not withstanding(idiotic 1000 year old dragon crap). I actually find it really interesting because for Asian people, they wouldn't think the characters are that young at all. My first reaction to Rex and Pyra's age is above 16, but lots of people here also think they're 12~14. It's interesting. Zeke can easily be 30+, and pandoria is probably 20s. This is interesting in a way too.

 

[MaskedNdi]

What defines as "sexualized"? Is it amount of bare skin shown or how tightly clothes "sit" on character, attenuating figure?

Click to shrink...

In addition to what's been said, I'd say it has a lot to do with how the character is posed/how the camera treats them.

Like I said above, I don't really have a problem with these designs or Pokemon in general. I just wanted to point out that you can even find this stuff in a series like Pokemon.

 

[IwazaruK7]

Hm.

For subjective feelings, i would say, sometimes you look at character and feel that you would be ashamed if your relatives/friends/significant other appears and see that when you're playing.

 

[petran79]

When I first came to Canada, I did not play ANY western games, the art style is ugly, realistic style is boring to me. Back when MMO is huge I couldn't bear to play WoW because of the western designs, I find them so so ugly. I played ragnarok online instead because of the anime style.

Can Japanese devs do better? Yes they can. But do they have a compelling reason to? This depends, I feel like they would like to also gain western audience if possible, but if that means losing some of their surelocked fans in other parts that accept this stuff, they will be hesitant.

Click to shrink...

I disliked realistic games too, however there were exceptions. Virtual Pool was the best pool game ever, not only for the gameplay but because it had one of the best tutorials and the FMV videos with J.Lee were very entertaining and educational to watch, even containing some witty remarks and irony.
Too bad that the upgraded digital version and the sequel replaced her with a guy, due to licensing costs.

Links LS 2001 was similar featuring Arnold Palmer, Sergio Garcia and Annika Sörenstam

 

[Deleted member 21094]

I disliked realistic games too, however there were exceptions. Virtual Pool was the best pool game ever, not only for the gameplay but because it had one of the best tutorials and the FMV videos with J.Lee were very entertaining and educational to watch, even containing some witty remarks and irony.
Too bad that the upgraded digital version and the sequel replaced her with a guy, due to licensing costs.

Links LS 2001 was similar featuring Arnold Palmer, Sergio Garcia and Annika Sörenstam

Click to shrink...

This looks so weird lol
I don't play realistic games because I was never brought up on them
I basically grew up on platformers(DKC, Megaman) then I moved straight to JRPGs
I don't get the point of sports games but that's because I don't watch sports
I like FPSes to a certain extent but only with friends
so Western games are very very miss for me, also leading me into never caring about an Xbox, the closest time I came to buying an xbox was when Tales of Vesperia was released for it.

My taste stayed relatively Asian even after a long time in the western society. I did open up eventually though, but they're still not my preference, and I still know other asian people living here that still doesn't play western games. This is why I can so often feel the extreme...differences between the Asian gaming culture vs the Western gaming culture, which is why I brought those points up.

It's like, I understand people think it's a bad excuse, but it really is half the reason

 

[Suede]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I must ask though, if a female character merely shows unnecessary skin, e.g. cleavage, but isn't framed by the camerawork in a sexual way, while also having a fully developed character, would we still consider said character an example of objectification?

Or is objectification more of a combination of the above that reinforces the creator's intent to present a character for the sake of being a sexual object and little else?

Click to shrink...

I would say it would depend on some things like, does it make sense for her character, like it would be obvious pandering if she were a doctor and were showing cleavage (Naomi in MGS4 is a good example of that). Sniper Wolf is another example, she has a lot of cleavage for most of MGS1 even though she is in Alaska lol. MaskedNdi posted a good example from Lost Planet too.

 

[SomeoneSomewhere]

This is disingenuous as fuck. It's far more difficult to think of games that have female main characters that DON'T have objectifying outfits this year.

Click to shrink...

" I don't think i have played "
I aka moi. What's so hard to grasp about that. Geez. It's not like i am saying there are no sexualized characters. I responded to a comment claiming MAINSTREAM games are full of sexualized males/females. I can't recall a EA/UBISOFT/ACTIVISION were that was the case. P.S And dota2/LoL are ok with their character designs IMO.

 

[weemadarthur]

" I don't think i have played "
I aka moi. What's so hard to grasp about that. Geez. It's not like i am saying there are no sexualized characters. I responded to a comment claiming MAINSTREAM games are full of sexualized males/females. I can't recall a EA/UBISOFT/ACTIVISION were that was the case. P.S And dota2/LoL are ok with their character designs IMO.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps, prior to making a statement, you should have defined your terms such as MAINSTREAM and OK, so that other people would know where you were coming from.

Although, since your profile says Male, your opinion is still a tad....off topic. But at least there could be conversation if you didn't move your goalposts after the fact.

 

[Opa-Pa]

In addition to what's been said, I'd say it has a lot to do with how the character is posed/how the camera treats them.

Like I said above, I don't really have a problem with these designs or Pokemon in general. I just wanted to point out that you can even find this stuff in a series like Pokemon.

Click to shrink...

Somehow I completely forgot that intro for her lol, disregard what I said.

 

[Suede]

This isn't sexualization of male??

Just stop with this no sense.

Click to shrink...

I see people bring these sort of outfits for men up a lot in these arguments, but a topless man is seen as empowering rather than weak and exposed. That costume for Chris is also an unlockable bonus rather than his default.

 

[Pirate Bae]

So, are you against the idea of sexualized alternative costumes for female characters, whose standard costumes are acceptable?

I just want to make sure i'm understanding you correctly.

Click to shrink...

Depends. Does the costume serve an actual purpose?

For example, Widowmaker's bikini skin. Bikinis are normal swimwear. It serves a purpose.

I'll get into it more tomorrow, I'm just getting off work from a frustrating day, and I don't have the brainpower to discuss this stuff right now.

 

[CannonFodder52]

" I don't think i have played "
I aka moi. What's so hard to grasp about that. Geez. It's not like i am saying there are no sexualized characters. I responded to a comment claiming MAINSTREAM games are full of sexualized males/females. I can't recall a EA/UBISOFT/ACTIVISION were that was the case. P.S And dota2/LoL are ok with their character designs IMO.

Click to shrink...

What's your response to the argument presented about Dota2 body types, besides just saying they are ok.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/1068155/

 

[WoollyTitan]

If we're going with what's generally considered sexy for women, no this is not what's a sexualized male, if anything it's more of a gag on the male power fantasy than anything.

Click to shrink...

If we had a gag on female over-sex'd depictions, people would get outraged that it's objectification. Whether it's played for laughs or not doesn't really make much of a difference these days.

The point I think he's trying to make is that this argument is hilariously one-sided, and frankly, a little bit hypocritical. We're cherry picking what offends us and what doesn't. But don't take my word for it - I actually got banned for similar sentiments, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept of singling out what offends you.

 

[Budi]

If we had a gag on female over-sex'd depictions, people would get outraged that it's objectification. Whether it's played for laughs or not doesn't really make much of a difference these days.

The point I think he's trying to make is that this argument is hilariously one-sided, and frankly, a little bit hypocritical. We're cherry picking what offends us and what doesn't. But don't take my word for it - I actually got banned for similar sentiments, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept of singling out what offends you.

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure if anyone could tell the difference between a gag and a serious design at this point. Since there's so many female designs that already look like a joke. One easy and obvious example, Quiet. I laughed at points while playing the game because of how she was represented. Like the chopper rides for example. But I don't think that was the intention. And it wasn't good kind of laughing. As I wasn't laughing with Kojima, but at him.

Though personally (I'm a man). When talking about over the top female characters, Bayonetta worked for me. The character was fun(ny) in a different way than Quiet. Being sexy and sassy was a big part of her characterization. It wasn't just her outfit and the camera angles. And it fit with the tone of the game perfectly.

 

[Ferrs]

If we had a gag on female over-sex'd depictions, people would get outraged that it's objectification. Whether it's played for laughs or not doesn't really make much of a difference these days.

The point I think he's trying to make is that this argument is hilariously one-sided, and frankly, a little bit hypocritical. We're cherry picking what offends us and what doesn't. But don't take my word for it - I actually got banned for similar sentiments, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept of singling out what offends you.

Click to shrink...

The argument is one sided because the reality right now is one sided. For 1 sexualized man there 20 sexualized woman, and this is only talking about designs. No game utilize camera angles for men like it does for sexualized women.

There's no cherry picking at all, it's just that the current landscape of representation of men in games compared to women can't be further apart.

 

[Suede]

If we had a gag on female over-sex'd depictions, people would get outraged that it's objectification. Whether it's played for laughs or not doesn't really make much of a difference these days.

The point I think he's trying to make is that this argument is hilariously one-sided, and frankly, a little bit hypocritical. We're cherry picking what offends us and what doesn't. But don't take my word for it - I actually got banned for similar sentiments, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept of singling out what offends you.

Click to shrink...

I think one thing you need to remember though is that men are not sexualised as much as women are, and it's very rare if they are. So it's not like it's reinforcing a stereotype or anything like it is with women.

 

[saturnineCarrier]

No game utilize camera angles for men like it does for sexualized women.

Click to shrink...

What would an objectifying camera directed for the benefit a female audience would look like though? I remember reading that men are much more aroused than women by visual stimuli*, so it sorta makes sense that it would be much more noticeable.

*except for bums. errybody love bums.

 

[Weltall Zero]

The point I think he's trying to make is that this argument is hilariously one-sided, and frankly, a little bit hypocritical. We're cherry picking what offends us and what doesn't.

Click to shrink...

Sexualization is hilariously one-sided. Whenever you pick the one example of male sexualization among the hundred of female ones and ask "what about this", how should others interpret it other than an attempt to distract and derail? When you then go on to accuse others of "cherry-picking", why do you expect others to take you seriously?

This is not much different from the backlash to "black lives matter". Sure, white lives matter too, and white people are also killed by the police, but what's exactly the point you're making?

 

[atomsk eater]

What would an objectifying camera directed for the benefit a female audience would look like though? I remember reading that men are much more aroused than women by visual stimuli*, so it sorta makes sense that it would be much more noticeable.

*except for bums. errybody love bums.

Click to shrink...

I don't think it's all the different in terms of just having the camera pan over or hightlight appealing parts of the body. Take the anime Free!, for example, which is a swimming anime aimed primarily at a female audience. The camera often focuses of a character's muscles while he's stretching, or biceps, or a character shaking the water out of their hair, or their bodies are drawn extra detailed while they're taking off their clothes, or the characters are trying on swimsuits and it pans over their muscular legs or something. So on and so forth. Personally while I appreciated these views in that sort of "niiiiice" kind of way, I wouldn't say they got me totally horny or anything. But since it's not meant to be full-on porn I don't necessarily need to be fully sexually aroused to appreciate the view, imo.

 

[BorkBork]

There's no female equivalent of the "male gaze" because it's rooted in power and who has it.

This piecelooks at it from a cinematic perspective, but I feel it's relevant to this discussion:

So is there a female gaze? Certainly, beautiful men abound in cinema. But I'd argue that there is no direct female equivalent of the male gaze. The male gaze creates a power imbalance. It supports a patriarchal status quo, perpetuating women's real-life sexual objectification.

For this reason, the female gaze cannot be "like" the male gaze.

Click to shrink...

 

[Snobby Rob]

Sexualization is hilariously one-sided. Whenever you pick the one example of male sexualization among the hundred of female ones and ask "what about this", how should others interpret it other than an attempt to distract and derail? When you then go on to accuse others of "cherry-picking", why do you expect others to take you seriously?

This is not much different from the backlash to "black lives matter". Sure, white lives matter too, and white people are also killed by the police, but what's exactly the point you're making?

Click to shrink...

 

[Crossing Eden]

What would an objectifying camera directed for the benefit a female audience would look like though? I remember reading that men are much more aroused than women by visual stimuli*, so it sorta makes sense that it would be much more noticeable.

*except for bums. errybody love bums.

Click to shrink...

Movies have spent years answering this question:

hell some games get the idea too, romance scene in ME from the perspective of Shepard as a woman, the dude literally turns toward the viewer as he takes off his shirt while the camera zooms in on his abs in case the intention needed to be anymore clear:

So yea it's absolutely possible for men to be objectified by the purposeful camera direction, thing is, most games, especially in the mainstream deliberately avoid this on purpose for the sake of not being off putting to male gamers. In the same way that they used to explicitly avoid depicting heterosexual relationships from the perspective of women. That's the difference between the above and characters like Kratos.

.

Click to shrink...

Basically what that person is saying is that the people who try to argue that men are objectified too are usually not at all being genuine. In the same way that people who bring up "but all lives matter!" in response to the black lives matter movement, aren't at all being genuine. Not exactly a hard point to get considering the context of people going "butmentoo!!" ITT and in general whenever such a discussion pops up. "Butmentoo" and "Butwhataboutviolence" are two of the most frequent whataboutisms when it comes to discussions around the representation of women in games. And tbch it's straight up annoying to see it still crop up.

 

[Robin]

Click to shrink...

These kind of replies aren't constructive and add nothing to the conversation.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Report and / or ignore, and move on, guys. Don't let them derail the thread.

 

[Biggui4yew]

I don't see how a game WOULD be a problem if it had slight sexualized female characters. Why get so mad? Just don't play the games. That's it. Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape.

 

[Deleted member 12009]

I don't see how a game WOULD be a problem if it had slight sexualized female characters. Why get so mad? Just don't play the games. That's it. Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape.

Click to shrink...

You gotta read the rest of the thread, man. If it were that easy then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Some genres are dominated by poor representation.

 

[atomsk eater]

What part of a chainmail bikini is necessary for gamers to be able to play a game and escape?

 

[Hikari]

I would never single Pokemon out for objectification, but even that has some sexualized designs.

I don't really have an issue with either design; just pointing out that this sort of thing is omnipresent.

Click to shrink...

I'd have used Clair here since her dress is pretty much see through. Pokemon has some really sexy females.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I don't see how a game WOULD be a problem if it had slight sexualized female characters. Why get so mad? Just don't play the games. That's it. Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape.

Click to shrink...

Literally a 40 page thread outlining why people get annoyed. It's important to think more critically about the media you consume. I don't understand the mindset that gamers are just mindless drones who accept anything that's thrown at them for the sake of escapism. Also you CAN enjoy a game with sexualized women in it, doesn't mean that you can't critique those elements.

 

[Suede]

I don't see how a game WOULD be a problem if it had slight sexualized female characters. Why get so mad? Just don't play the games. That's it. Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape.

Click to shrink...

For me personally I don't get mad, I still really enjoy games that have sexualised women in them, but I can still criticise the game if I think it contains what I think are poorly designed characters.

 

[saturnineCarrier]

I don't think it's all the different in terms of just having the camera pan over or hightlight appealing parts of the body. Take the anime Free!, for example, which is a swimming anime aimed primarily at a female audience. The camera often focuses of a character's muscles while he's stretching, or biceps, or a character shaking the water out of their hair, or their bodies are drawn extra detailed while they're taking off their clothes, or the characters are trying on swimsuits and it pans over their muscular legs or something. So on and so forth. Personally while I appreciated these views in that sort of "niiiiice" kind of way, I wouldn't say they got me totally horny or anything. But since it's not meant to be full-on porn I don't necessarily need to be fully sexually aroused to appreciate the view, imo.

Click to shrink...

Movies have spent years answering this question:

hell some games get the idea too, romance scene in ME from the perspective of Shepard as a woman, the dude literally turns toward the viewer as he takes off his shirt:

So yea it's absolutely possible for men to be objectified by the purposeful camera choices, thing is, most games, especially in the mainstream deliberately avoid this on purpose for the sake of not being off putting to male gamers. In the same way that they used to explicitly avoid depicting heterosexual relationships from the perspective of women. And this is in spite of the fact that characters like Kratos exist.

Click to shrink...

I see. Approximately the same thing, then.

There's no female equivalent of the "male gaze" because it's rooted in power and who has it.

This piecelooks at it from a cinematic perspective, but I feel it's relevant to this discussion:

Click to shrink...

That's why I avoided the term, incidentally.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I don't see how a game WOULD be a problem if it had slight sexualized female characters.

Click to shrink...

Define "slight".

Why get so mad? Just don't play the games.

Click to shrink...

Don't play what games? The entire point of this thread is that it's fucking everywhere. If games with sexualization were few and carried labels saying "this game contains sexualization" or otherwise wore their hearts on their sleeves like Senran Kagura games and such, then sure, you'd have a point. As it stands? You are simply showing zero empathy.

That's it. Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape.

Click to shrink...

How about women who want to escape an already sexist real world? Do they not deserve a chance to play a game without being suddenly offended with the game treating them like sex objects?

I find it amazing that people like you ask that, please, won't the feminists think of the horny dudes like myself and let us enjoy our games, yet you won't make the effort of thinking of them and let them enjoy pretty much any games at all. Why should they care about you when you obviously care so little about them?

 

[HyperFerret]

I don't see how a game WOULD be a problem if it had slight sexualized female characters. Why get so mad? Just don't play the games. That's it. Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape.

Click to shrink...

Would you want to play games if 80% of them had dick physics and cameras zoomed in on a man's crotch or bare chest at least once per game? Would you be offended if someone told you to "stop being mad, it's just dicks?"

This is a limited mindset.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

In addition to what's been said, I'd say it has a lot to do with how the character is posed/how the camera treats them.

Like I said above, I don't really have a problem with these designs or Pokemon in general. I just wanted to point out that you can even find this stuff in a series like Pokemon.

Click to shrink...

My daughter is glad for a brown character, but an says she's inappropriate.

Good girl.